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Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920
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   Author  Topic: Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920  (Read 6399 times)
ldemery
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Re: Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920
 
« Reply #40 on: Apr 9th, 2011, 9:04pm »
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Gentlemen,
 
Thank you for this thread, which provides much "general" information about the "Panama Traction Company" (e.g. location, operation, etc.).
 
My primary interest ("obsession" or "cause" might be a better choice of words at this point) is operating statistics for street and interurban railways. I thought I'd share what I have for this company.
 
In 1917, the "Panama Traction Company" extended 11.0 miles ("route-miles," also known back then as "length of road" and "first main  track").
 
Passenger traffic: 15,342 - which I'd have to say was "miniscule," even back then, for a line of this length.
 
The average fare paid per passenger was $0.18257 (I'll explain why I record this particular number in a moment). This implies that total passenger revenue was about $2,800.99.
 
The average passenger revenue per passenger car-mile (explanation below) was $0.13217. This implies that the company operated about 21,192 passenger car-miles.
 
I do not have data for other years (I search by 5-year intervals from 1907) because ... well, I didn't look. Reports from this company were "possibly" filed with "railroads" for some years.
 
-----  
 
To explain what I do with such numbers:
 
"Most" countries compiled and published street railway data on a "national" basis.  With one qualified exception (the Census Bureau reports), the U.S. did not.
 
Some states published electric railway data annually - New York is a good example. Others collected annual reports from companies but did not publish the data. Pennsylvania is a good example - because the reports are archived and well indexed.
 
Still other states did not collect data, because all or "most" electric railways were regulated by municipal governments and not the state. Iowa is an example of a state where "interurbans" were regulated by the state but "street railways" were not.  
 
(And then there's Missouri, which collected annual (or biennial) reports, but does not know where these are stored today - and says they would not be disclosed in any case.)
 
The data I try to find for each company:
 
1.) "Route-miles" (or "length of road")
 
2.) "Total passengers" (including transfers)
 
and
 
3.) Sufficient data to estimate the "average" distance traveled by each passenger. This can be done using "total passengers," "total passenger revenue" and "total passenger car-miles."
 
Average revenue per passenger and average revenue per car-mile is a labor-saving way to copy this data (useful when working in an archive).
 
"Average travel distance" is easy to calculate for "railroads," because these typically reported passenger-miles. Electric railways, however, seldom did so.
 
The staff at the PA state archive in Harrisburg are very helpful. Anyone interested in this aspect of the Youngstown and Sugar Grove, or other railroad or electric railway in Pennsylvania, might find their collection of annual reports (to the state) of interest.
 
Leroy W. Demery, Jr.


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Aa3rt
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Re: Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920
 
« Reply #41 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 10:59am »
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Mr. Demery,
 
      Many thanks for your most interesting and well researched post! I particuarly found the operating statistics of value.
 
     I have to admit that when I first started researching this topic it was strictly from a railway enthusiast's point of view, ie, locomotives, rolling stock, right-of-way and any remaining structures that served the railroad.
 
     However, as I delved into the topic, I found myself also interested in the economics and social impact of the railroad.  
 
     Even in their "heydays" neither Youngsville or Sugar Grove were manufacturing or population centers. About the only industry of any type that was on the line was the Youngsville Brick Works, which was just on the outskirts of that borough, and would have utilized only about two miles of the line to reach its interchange with the DAV&P.  
 
     (After the Y&SG/Warren County Traction/Panama Traction Company ceased operation, there was a siding built to serve the brickworks from the Pennsylvania Railroad line in Youngsville. The brickworks had ceased operation by the time I was old enough to be aware of it but the PRR siding remained in place for years afterward and the old ROW can still be made out.)
 
     I've heard anecdotal evidence that there was an "apple dryer" in Sugar Grove that shipped its products by rail but this was seasonal traffic at best.  
Otherwise, the line was strictly limited to carrying passengers to the best of my knowledge.
 
     The Sugar Grove United Methodist Church, the church I attended in my youth, puts out a wonderful quarterly newsletter and includes historical vignettes from the borough of Sugar Grove sometimes including references to the long defunct line.
 
     Note that on the scan of the ticket I posted there's a stop listed as "Midway Park". Again, relying on anecdotal evidence, I've been told that there was a small amusement park at this point on the line. This point on Pennsylvania Route 27 (Known locally as the "Matthews Run Road") is a very narrow spot between two steep hills and I've been told there was a rope bridge crossing this narrow valley between the two hills over the park.
 
     Thanks again for sharing your most welcome information!
 
                                                                 Art (Aa3rt) Audley
 
EDIT: One thing I neglected to mention was that both namesake towns served by the Y&SG were quite active as oil drilling areas around the time of the first world war. I don't know if any pipe or drilling equipment was carried by the railroad and would be interested to find records of freight carried by the line.
 
Since researching this company I've become interested in other "traction" lines or trolley companies that were chartered and built but never electrified. Here's a topic, posted at another forum, that you may find of interest:
 
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=77107


« Last Edit: Apr 11th, 2011, 1:05pm by Aa3rt » Logged
Aa3rt
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Re: Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920
  YSGWTO.jpg - 125189 Bytes
« Reply #42 on: Dec 11th, 2011, 5:53pm »
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Here's another view of a Y&SG train headed west in downtown Youngsville towards Sugar Grove. Once again the bridge across the Brokenstraw Creek can be seen in the far left of the photo. Note the piles of snow in the muddy street.
 
This is obviously a newspaper clipping that appeared in the Warren (PA) Times-Observer on May 20 of 2010 and is another view I've never seen before.



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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2011, 5:50pm by Aa3rt » Logged
Aa3rt
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Re: Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920
  Seminary_Train.jpg - 203899 Bytes
« Reply #43 on: Oct 14th, 2012, 11:04pm »
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A very big "Thank You!" to a couple of lovely ladies, Kim and Leslie of the Sugar Grove Free Library for scanning this very early photo from the library's collection and emailing it to me.  
 
This view is taken in Sugar Grove looking east. I suspect that this is very early in the life of the railway-note the lack of a bell on the locomotive. All other photos I've seen of this engine show a bell mounted on the boiler behind the smoke stack. Additionally, by increasing the size of the photo, the observer can actually make out the Youngsville & Sugar Grove Street Railway lettering on the combine.  
 
The train is headed north, about to cross Seminary Street (Now known as School Street) and travel the final block on Wilson Street to the terminal.  
 
As noted in one of the first posts in this thread, the seminary stood from 1883-1963. I attended 1st through 4th grades in this building.



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« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2012, 11:05pm by Aa3rt » Logged
roc
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Re: Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920
 
« Reply #44 on: Jan 12th, 2013, 12:48am »
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The Warren Times-Observer republished the Y&SG shot in downtown Youngsville online:
 
http://timesobserver.com/page/content.detail/id/561957/Vintage-Warren--History-in-Photos.html
 
The caption reads: In 1902, it was proposed to build an electric trolley line to connect Sugar Grove with the Erie RR at Youngsville so that people could easily transport merchandise and coal. Construction was started but then halted for many months. Incorporated on April 14, 1902, as Y&SGRR…
 
[more]


« Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2013, 12:48am by roc » Logged

A smokey Alco and a good camera, nevermind the weather...
Aa3rt
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Re: Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920
 
« Reply #45 on: Jan 12th, 2013, 1:08am »
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Thanks for the post Roc. Of course, we both know that the Erie Railroad did not serve Youngsville. I can only surmise that they meant the "Philadelphia & Erie", later Pennsylvania Railroad that passed through Youngsville on its way to Erie, PA.

« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2013, 9:15pm by Aa3rt » Logged
Aa3rt
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Re: Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920
  DAVPYville.jpg - 12833 Bytes
« Reply #46 on: Apr 14th, 2013, 9:17pm »
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At long last! A photo (Actually a photo of a photo) of the Dunkirk, Allegheny Valley & Pittsburgh's Youngsville depot where the Y&SG connected with the DAV&P:

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/fallenshorts/DAVPYville.jpg
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« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2013, 9:20pm by Aa3rt » Logged
thebigham
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Re: Youngsville & Sugar Grove (PA) Railroad 1902-1920
 
« Reply #47 on: Oct 1st, 2017, 7:54pm »
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Great thread! Thanks

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