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HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
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   HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
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   Author  Topic: HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!  (Read 319 times)
towny72
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HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
 
« on: Sep 1st, 2010, 5:35pm »
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Trying to wrap my brain around goodle maps and the overview around Koppel and the tracks coming up from Beaver.  
 
I assume the CSX(PLE) main is running on the east side of the river while the NS(CR) line is on the west. But from that point it gets a bit tricky. Further up where Rt18 and 76 meet I notice the double main turns towards the west and a spur runs back off at a north east direction towards Kopel. From what I remember the NS line then runs low in the valley along the river while again the CSX line is on the east side. At that point the track that runs through and serves Koppel Steel, and a small industrial park and towards what I can tell as its end it serves the cement plant. What is this line, and who operates on it? Ok next question is just north of the cement plant what I think is the CSX main splints and crosses the river and joins this questioned line and continues north. But that where I really think I am missing something. The from Koppel along with the line that cross the river then run north the lines split but then just north of CSX New Castle Yard then come back just opposites of the river on their way to Youngstown.  
 
So I hope somebody can clear this picture for me, I am sure I am just over looking something.
 
Thanks,  
 
Bob


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towny72
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Re: HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
 
« Reply #1 on: Sep 1st, 2010, 8:16pm »
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Well my eyes are starting to hurt from looking at this computer but I think I finally got some of these questions figured out.  
 
 
1.The NS(CR) continues on the east bank of the Beaver River after the split just above the second damn. This line continues on the east back to just south of West Pittsburgh where the line crosses over the river and the CSX(PLE) main.
 
2.The CSX(PLE) main crosses the river to the east bank just south of West Pittsburgh where it joins the BP(B&O)main just south of New Castle Yard.  
 
3.QUESTION: The line that still is in question runs from the point where the double main turns due west along the turn pike and runs north to region the NS main around Clyde and Rt18
 
a.Still trying to figure out who operates that line, most likely NS that serves Koppel Steel, the large industrial park, and the cement plant.
 
4.The NS(CR) and CSX(PLE)mains continue to run to Youngstown on the respected side of the river.
 
5.QUESTION: I notice the NS main has a connection with CSX just north of the yard, and also a spur that connects with what is today the NIRR, was this the line that would have then completed the run through NC up along RT18 and then south into the Sharon Hermitage area?
 
Thanks,  
 
Bob


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RailCop
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Re: HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
 
« Reply #2 on: Oct 5th, 2010, 3:24pm »
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Ah, Bob, I'm a little confused reading your post but maybe I can help you.
The NS Youngstown Line runs up the east side of the Beaver River from New Brighton, PA, to Wampum, PA. At Wampum it crosses the river to the west side. In doing so it also crosses over the CSX (ex P&LE) line. From there it continues north to Mahoningtown, (now part of New Castle) PA. and on to Lowellville, OH, and Youngstown. Now, at Wampum there is a line which connects at CP WAMP and runs to CP WOOD at Homewood, PA on the Ft. Wayne Line. This is known as the Koppel Secondary. I believe this is the line in question in #3 of your post. Along this line are the cement company in Wampum, a coal load out and a couple smaller industries. In Koppel it also serves the old B&W plant.  
 
Question #5 of your post...you are correct. The connection is New Castle with the CSX and NCIR is part of the original PY&A line which ran north from this point. NC was served by several railroads (PRR, B&O, P&LE, Erie, NYC via the P&LE). The NCIR is made up of remnants of of all the original lines. The PY&A ran from the current NS main line all the way to Wheatland and Sharon, PA, where it met up with the Erie line. In fact, this line to Wheatland was still in service when Conrail took over in 1976. It was later abandoned by CR in the 80's.
 
Hope that helps.
 
KT


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towny72
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Re: HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
 
« Reply #3 on: Oct 6th, 2010, 4:02pm »
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KT,
 
Thanks for the info. I know the board has been slow as of late so I ended up doing a good bit of foot work, and google maps. Also spent an afternoon at a spot my dad took me to as a kid on the FT Wayne line by Big Beaver. Everything seems to be coming together about the line and the area.
 
Bob


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RailCop
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Re: HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
 
« Reply #4 on: Oct 12th, 2010, 4:51pm »
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Bob, have you ever been to Summit Cut in Big Beaver? It's at MP-37 and is the highest point between Pittsburgh and the Ohio flats. The trains pull very hard to clear the cut, especially the east bounds. It was more dramatic in the old days with the first generation GEs and AlCos. The noise was defining and the smoke from the AlCos would choke you! Todays engines are not so exciting but still a good show.

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towny72
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Re: HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
 
« Reply #5 on: Oct 12th, 2010, 8:02pm »
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KT,  
 
Are you talking about the rock cut that is below Shenango Rd? If so I know my dad would park down there a good bit when I was a kid to watch the trains thunder threw. You are dead on the new locos are just not much fun. GE has 2 models that look the same, EMD the same......  
 


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RailCop
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Re: HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
 
« Reply #6 on: Oct 12th, 2010, 11:32pm »
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That's the spot. My great-great uncle was the timekeeper for the crew who dug that ditch. He kept the payroll time for the workers. Did you know that there were FOUR tracks through that cut in the past? Yup, way back in the teens and 20's there were four tracks. Hard to believe today.  
 
Later,
 
KT


« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2010, 11:33pm by RailCop » Logged

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towny72
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Re: HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
 
« Reply #7 on: Oct 13th, 2010, 9:21pm »
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Great stuff! This fall I plan to take another trip back to get a few more pics. I have one of a SD40-2 leading east over at Alley Hill crossing. I want to get the exact spot down and do a jump ahead to 2010 shot.  
 
If you go to the NS thread I have a Topic "A trip back in time on the FT. Wayne Line for myself"
 
Some pics from last month. The first time i returend to the location in 14years. Miss being a kid!


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jonglass
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Re: HELP, Youngstown to New Castle and south!
 
« Reply #8 on: Nov 15th, 2010, 11:43am »
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on Oct 12th, 2010, 11:32pm, RailCop wrote:       (Click here for original message)
That's the spot. My great-great uncle was the timekeeper for the crew who dug that ditch. He kept the payroll time for the workers. Did you know that there were FOUR tracks through that cut in the past? Yup, way back in the teens and 20's there were four tracks. Hard to believe today.  
 
Later,
 
KT

 
Wow! Caught this thread by accident! When _I_ was a kid, we would play down there (as well as watch the trains from the bridge). I remember trying to knock "icicles" down with stones--in the summer. We lived about a quarter mile from the McKinley Rd crossing. Grew up listening to first PC locos, and then Conrail locos blasting their way through the valley, and yes, it was a trip watching the trains trying to get up that hill--frequently (in my early years), with helpers pushing at the rear.  
 
-Jon
 


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