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Liberal fall is Via's too???
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   Author  Topic: Liberal fall is Via's too???  (Read 868 times)
via4ever
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Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« on: Nov 28th, 2005, 7:34pm »
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What is everyones opinion on a possible Liberal defeat? I am talking about how it could spell Via's demise!  It is no secret that Stephen Harper is no friend of Via Rail. He has alluded to it in the past that he would seek its privatization. Oh joy....a bunch of Rocky Mountaineer situations all over the country....overpriced for the avg. Canadian seeking rail transportation, and NOT serving the little towns and cities enroute (hello Revelstoke, Golden, etc.) !!! Also, ZERO regular winter service!!!!    I am interested in opinions on what a Harper govt. would mean!!!

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NS_VIA_FAN
TRAINing
Posts: 20
Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #1 on: Nov 29th, 2005, 6:11am »
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A “Harper” VIA:
 
-The corridor will survive.
 
-Possibly the Ocean too. This is a long busy train with lots of people travelling to actually get somewhere. Not just tourists and lots of students. Heaviest loads are west of Moncton so I could see it being cut back to a daytime Moncton-Montreal run.  
 
-Also the remote services will survive as there is just no other option. Winnipeg-Churchill could become a Thompson or The Pas-Churchill service only.  


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via4ever
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #2 on: Nov 29th, 2005, 6:36am »
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Like I figured!  Oh joy oh joy. I'm getting the rope ready. Or should I just get drunk and walk on the tracks someplace? Like anything decent in this kuntree, it is going away...for good.  R.I.P. Via, if Harper wins!!!

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missthealcos
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Posts: 630
Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #3 on: Nov 29th, 2005, 2:03pm »
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No, R.I.P. Canada if Harper wins..seediest piece of garbage to come down the political pike in years...if not ever. Maybe enough people will see him for what he is, and keep him out. I'm not holding my breath though.

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Darren
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #4 on: Nov 30th, 2005, 9:59pm »
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I don't think Via would be at risk if the Conservatives form our next Government.  I don't think they intend to cut Via once they are in power.  The Conservatives don't intend on cutting services that are vital to Canadians.  It does say in their platform that they do support public transit and it also mentions about tax credits being granted to those who use public transit.  Via, in my openion is considered a public transit in this country.  
 
The main intention of the Conservative party is to put more money in our pockets by lowering taxes, but at the same time, providing the funding necessary to support programs like public transit where we as tax payers, would benifit.  
 
I think Via has been neglected more by the Liberals than any other political party, over the years,  Money that should have gone to Via, had gone to other useless government programs instead, like the sponsership scandle? or other stupid usless objectives that the Liberals have?
 
Its no wonder, Via keeps raising its fares!!!!
 
It was the Tory Conservatives that built our Railway in the first place....
 
Darren


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missthealcos
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #5 on: Nov 30th, 2005, 11:19pm »
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Via was formed by the Trudeau liberals...
 
Harper has stated in the past that Via was done for if he formed a gov't.
 
It was the Mulroney Conservatives that decimated Via(and everything else in this country) in 1989-1990
 
I agree, it has been neglected, the huge funding increase that never materialized being a very good example. The Liberals aint no saints, but try living with the provincial gov't we have(or had, they don't have quite the clout they had first term, but the damage is all already done) in BC...Harper would be VERY much like it...not a good thing at all!
 
The Tories of today bear little or no resemblance to those of the past..much like pretty much anything else you'd care  to mention.
 
I have no doubt that if Harper were to form a gov't, Via as we know it  is very much in danger of disappearing altogether, I'd say it is almost a guarantee.  
 
This isn't an opinion, opinions mean nothing, noone can predict what may happen until it happens..its only a hypothesis.


« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2005, 11:24pm by missthealcos » Logged
via4ever
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #6 on: Dec 1st, 2005, 12:39am »
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Is it safe to say that missthealcos is (was) not part of the Yoing Conservatives?? (LOL)

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VIA_windsor
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Posts: 94
Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #7 on: Dec 3rd, 2005, 1:32am »
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In all honesty, I don't think much would change with VIA under any government. (for better or worse)
A good prediction of what might happen is in Ontario.
Although Mike Harris(more conservative then Harper will ever be) never liked, supported, or funded it properly, he didn't cut the ONR Passenger Service. In fact, harris wanted to improve the northern railways north to ship garbage out of toronto to the kirkland mines, but the whole program was struck down by civil protesters about the garbage issue. Which Ontario Liberals backed.  
It was simply too clear that the ONR was an essential service for northern communities, and too many small communities wanted to keep it. Liberals came to power nothing changed.
Although everyone remembers Mulroney cutting VIA rail. true he did, but try to see it from his situation. If Mulroney truly hated VIA, he would have killed it ASAP. He waited until it was a last resort.
Plus, the economy was in a dire state back then, how could Mulroney justify raising taxes and spending it all on VIA rail, when factory workers needed jobs and re-training, the out of control debt, and the continued inflated deficit stacked up by both parties throughout the 70 and 80s.  
So he had to cut up VIA, but he keept just enough so it would survive another day. And VIA survived. If he wanted to destroy it, all he had to was stop all funding. But he didn't. So call him what you want, but I am thankful that he didn't just abondon it like CN,CP, air ontario/air canada/canadian/greyhound canada wanted him to. I am also happy that money saved from the cancellation of those routes helped to stop the stagflation, and unemployment. Now, its time to rebuild in an effcient and constructive way.
Things have change, and budgets are working, and VIA is almost running in the black. Mr. Collonette in my opinion is the only true politician who enjoyed trains and envisioned something greater.
Unfortunetly, no matter who wins, I don't expect anything to change in regards to VIA rail. Unless Mr. Collentte is the PM, or minister again.


« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2005, 11:38am by VIA_windsor » Logged
via4ever
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #8 on: Dec 3rd, 2005, 3:53am »
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missthealcos should read the above and lighten up on Mulroney.....to hear miss... talk, Mulroney is worse than Karla Homolka !!!!

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Operations_Manager
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Posts: 171
Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #9 on: Dec 6th, 2005, 5:25pm »
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It really bothers me, when people make comments that do cover the whole scope of the issue, or only highlight the items they choose to. The economic  and social damage that has been done by the cutting of Via Rail  services in Canada, will never be repaired! The Government takes away railway passenger service, and says "Hey we are saving you money, take other forms public transportation, and we will tax you with our Goods and Service tax to discourage regional economic growth, but Hey, we are saving you money, in the short term" The real truth would scare everyone!!!!!

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VIA_windsor
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Posts: 94
Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #10 on: Dec 6th, 2005, 11:47pm »
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I wish and hope that any or all of the parties will provide more money for VIA rail to invest in new rail innovation. For example, laying of new tracks, new consist like autorail, international connections,  speed trains.
But... this isn't going to happen unless a politician is a railfan, which none of them are, since they fly, first class, all the time. Most politicians are completely out of touch with Canadians. Ask a politician... when was the last time they rode of a corridor coach service train. None of them know, or care about the state of VIA rail.
As for operations manager,lets just be clear about economic growth. VIA rail was cut back... but Canada's economy rebounded, grew, and exploded throughout the 90s.  So I was wondering if you could clarify your position. With your connections between VIA and Canada's economic policies.
Consider voting green in support of VIA.


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Operations_Manager
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #11 on: Dec 7th, 2005, 5:18pm »
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Attention Via Windsor. Keep in mind there is no government accountabilty. It is only luck that Central Canada is in a economic upturn, keep in mind that GM etc are on the ropes. Have a chat with the small business owners in Cape Briton, where 228,000 rail passengers have "disppeared". Ask the motorists and tourists in New Brunswick, how they feel about the the Trans-Canada having to be expanded, due to reduced rail passenger service, and then made a toll road! I do not think that we will see any railway passenger service expansion in Canada, with the possible exception of a privately built and operated service between Calgary and Edmonton. Plus, always remember that in the last census, only 6% of Canada's population used trains. The government "theme" or concern for the government these days, is to "create" an huge industry of law enforcement people to attack the so-called hidden enemy. As well as trying to justify there existance, they will be given huge budgets, which will leave little or nothing for railway passenger train expansion

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missthealcos
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #12 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 2:47pm »
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So you like Stephen Harper then do you? and his predecesors?
 
You are right, Mulroney did wonderful things to this  
country  
 
You are right, Harper does not ooze smarm from every pore, while he tries to appeal to the lowest common denominator(2% off the GST, sound management if I've ever seen it)..problem is, that kind of pathetic, very short term result tactic, has proven to work very well on us.
 
Well, then, like the BC voters who voted in Campbell for a second term, those who vote conservative wil get what they deserve. Too bad the rest of us have to suffer for that as well.
 
Where did I say I was a 100% Liberal supporter? Personally, A liberal gov't with a strong NDP opposition is what we need, or even vice versa, but that aint going to happen.
 
Lets have a Stephen Harper gov't, so he can spend the next 4 years slashing and burning, taking our tax dollars and giving us nothing, and paying back the Bloc for siding with him, you don't think there are some serious account recievables there? great, add that to revolving the entire country around Quebecs whining for another 4 years. You agree with a a person who aligns themselves with the Bloc, and stomps like a 4 year old because he didn't win last time around, and now uses the sponsorship scandal as a vehicle for him to bring down the gov't, and cause(cost!) us an unneeded election.
 
Alrighty then.


« Last Edit: Dec 14th, 2005, 2:51pm by missthealcos » Logged
VIA6903
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #13 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 4:14pm »
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Whatever ya say Scott!

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Terry
via4ever
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #14 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 7:58pm »
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Must say I  have a HUGE dilemma on my hands..... come election time. Do I vote for the party (Conserv) that may kill Via Rail, or for the Liberals who want a state-run daycare policy for ALL Canadians. Yes, that is what they are after. Did you all hear what the Libs said about spending the money alloted to families by the Conserv.s on beer and popcorn?  Can you imagine if the Conservs said that this is what happens to welfare money A HUGE hue and cry, for sure!! (and THAT is certainly more true!!) The Liberals are all about the Nanny State, and I dont need the govt. to tell me how to raise my children ( I thought communism was dead!) Even the usually left-leaning Vancouver Sun newspaper had a big editorial today on how the Libs "know what's best" for Canadian families! They did not go as far as to endorse the Conservatives....far from it, but they were letting readers know the papers opinion on just how much control the Libs want over children!  And Ken dryden suggesting Canadian families may need "to be taught" on how to raise their children? Did he get hit by THAT many pucks with Larry Robinson and Guy Lapointe in front of him    Give me a break!!!     I think I will take my chances on the Conservatives taking an axe to Via Rail.....having two children myself, train trips are nice, and a safe way to get to other parts of the country, but what the Liberals are after affects a MUCH larger part of everyday life for Canadians with children. I dont need BIG government any more involved in my everyday life! And missthealcos dream of a Lib govt. with NDP opposition? The NDP is not much different than the Libs on ideology (immigration, gun control, this Cuban daycare dream, etc) , so that "utopia" is laughable! Where does that put the Conservs?  I say lets try (again) the Conservatives with a Liberal opposition.......its not like the Libs have made no mistakes!  Can YOU say Jean Chretien?  Harper has not proven himself to be the next Brian Mulroney....it is unfair to characterize him as such...yet.  One more thing..where are the Liberal lovers when the sponsorship scandal broke? Or this phoney too-late-to-the-table handgun "ban"? Like I said upon hearing this....I thought they already WERE banned !! Here in Vancouver proper, where the Libs federally have had a stronghold (them or their NDP brothers) for eons, we have had EIGHT ( consecutive night of gun activity! So please dont tell me about their latest "Johnny come lately" "ban" on handguns! Please dont make me lose my lunch!  Missthealcos seems to detest the Conserv's on their fiscal policies, which is fine. But there are a HUGE slew of social issues that are equally (if not more) important as well. Unbridaled immigration, crime and a proper justice system, this state-run daycare-for-all are just a few of these. And THESE are what many Canadians are starting to realize are important issues. Is it too late for change? We'll see.

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VIA_windsor
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #15 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 9:06pm »
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Wow, this has gotten political, and this IS a VIA rail forum, so lets try to stick to reasons why we are here.
With the election in mind, and VIA rail's future, there is no evidence that VIA rail is anywhere near demolition and abondonment from ANY party.
The true question to ask, which party is going to invest in VIA. The answer... NONE.
So there, the talk of VIA rail and federal politics is irrelevant.  
If anything, look to your provinces for providing better mass transit rail. The FEDS are all realizing that this is a service(much like health care) that is under provincial jurisdiction (established by the LIBERAL TRUDEAU CONSTITUTION, WHICH WAS SIGNED WITHOUT ALL PROVINCES).  
Only transit between provinces is a Federal responsibility (ex: trans canada highway and airports). Intra-provincial travel is a provincial affair (hwy. 401), so stop thinking that the federal election is going to change VIA rail.
So if VIA rail is reduced by any federal party, its only cause the slack is for provinces to pick up. (ex: GO, Northlander)  
Don't feel slighted by whoever the PM is when cutting VIA, they are only doing what Pierre Trudeau wrote for them to do in the constitutional powers.


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Darren
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #16 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 9:17pm »
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via4ever,  I do aggree with you 100%,  I think we should give Stephen Harper a chance.  He doesn't seem all that Conservative minded in his speaches and I like his lower tax and cutting the GST ideas which I support,  heh we pay too much tax as it is.  (btw i don't think we should have to pay GST when we travel on VIA,  besides Via is owned by the government)      
 
And yes, I think there is too much government control in our lives.  You mentioned you have children?   You should be the decision maker on behalf of your children regarding their care and what they do.  Not the government.  I like Stephen Hapers ideas in supporting familys rather than regulating them.    
 
I think we need a change in government and I also think we all need a break on our taxes.  As for Via goes in the minds of most conservatives.   I remember asking one of the conservative candidates when they were campaigning in 2004 on their veiws on Via,  they implied that they support Via funding and blamed the Liberals on its cuts back in the 80's.   I don't think Stephen Harper has any intentions of cutting services that as Canadians we value.   I think his intentions are to clean up the government and get rid of any wastefull spending that as Canadians we dont benifit from so that taxes are lowered.  
 
Darren


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VIA6903
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Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #17 on: Dec 15th, 2005, 11:21am »
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I'll be honest with you what we need is new leaders!   Make no mistake
Paul Martin is no friend to Via Rail and never will be! There's too much bad
blood between his former company and Via Rail.  For years Martin would
pardon the pun "Harp" about unfair subsidies to Via Rail.  So why assume
anything has changed.  Just the fact that he cancelled the 700 million that
Chretien was giving to Via Rail for needed improvements should persuade you
to see what he thinks of the national passenger carrier.  Also his campaign
to rid the Liberal Party of such people like David Collenette, the loudest voice
in Ottawa in many years to come out in support of Via Rail.  And don't be fooled
by the announcement by Jean Lapierre that the funding "may" be restored in  
the future! That's just the proverbial carrot being dangled in front of the Canadian
voter yet once again.  Like all other promises politicians make, and break!
 
Steven Harper in my opinion wouldn't be any better for Via rail.  A Conservative
government under Harper would most likely try to privatise Via or at least portions
of Via.  We don't really know for sure if that is true but certain Conservatives who
have been very vocal when it comes to privatization namely Jim Gouk would lead
us to that conclusion.  The best we can hope for until the leaders of both parties
change is a Liberal or a Conservative minority government.  A majority for either
party could spell disaster for Via Rail.  We need leaders who are more interested
in the public good as opposed to the private good,  leaders who are not so concerned with maintaining power at all costs, leaders who will be honest with the
citizens of this country, leaders who will allow for democracy and not rule the  
country like a dictatorship!  It's a lot to ask and quit frankly I don't believe any of
our current leaders are up to the task.  
 
So the big question is who do you vote for? Elect a Liberal majority under Martin and Via Rail will be slowly starved to death due to lack of adequate funding.  Martin being the player that he is would see this as a way to rid himself of Via Rail while not making his government look bad.  Martin making direct sweeping cuts to Via or say the CBC would reflect poorly on his Liberals. So he will let it die a slow death, one that will not come back to haunt him.  Harper with a majority on the other hand being more bold and brash would take that opportunity to privatize Via Rail as a whole or at least portions of it.  A sink or swim type of attitude which would mean the death of much of the system as we know it now.  Of course these are all just guesses as to what will happen politicians have a way of flip flopping on all issues
so only time will tell.
 


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Terry
VIA_windsor
Chaser
Posts: 94
Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #18 on: Dec 15th, 2005, 1:35pm »
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Hey, everyone here seems to be making sense now.
VIA rail is one part of politics, there are many other facets that need to be assesed as well.
However, I heard that when Mulroney was first elected, he acutally restored some cut lines by the Liberals. (ex: Peterborough)
Is that true?


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missthealcos
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Posts: 630
Re: Liberal fall is Via's too???
 
« Reply #19 on: Dec 15th, 2005, 3:24pm »
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I agree, this has gotten too political...but to those who doubt, look back to what Harper has said in the past. He HAS stated that he will dismember Via...he is one of those that seriously believes gov't shouldn't be providing anything, or running anything...well, in a country this size, with this population, yes, it should be providing, that is how it works.
 
Will he follow through with his earlier statements given the chance? who knows...
 
Don't forget..I ma not some foamer who doesn't pay attention to reality, and Via is only one of many issues I have with Harper, he scares me, reminds me of Campbell, and I do believe he has a hidden, sweeping agenda, ala Campbell(well, to those who don't look very hard anyway) that will only show itself when he has obtained power. Don't trust him as far as I could throw him. His Campaign rhetoric speaks volumes about how he plans to win this...doesn't that worry you?


« Last Edit: Dec 15th, 2005, 3:25pm by missthealcos » Logged
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