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Topic Summary
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 2nd, 2014, 3:21pm
I am truly stunned at the magnitude of the victory for the railway today!  VIA and SVI have come to a tentative agreement pending ratification by the Boards and such.
 
The new Dayliner service will be centred in Nanaimo with service starting there in the morning, going to Victoria, leaving Victoria on the traditional run to Courtenay and back and then return to Nanaimo.  SVI put together the business plan that has now come to fruition.
 
Once all the stuff is signed and the funding is released the track and bridge work should take around 9 months.
 
What a great day!  We've all waited so long.
 
I'll upload pictures later.
 
Yes!
Posted by: Chris_C Posted on: Apr 2nd, 2014, 3:38pm
on Apr 2nd, 2014, 3:21pm, chrisale wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I am truly stunned at the magnitude of the victory for the railway today!  VIA and SVI have come to a tentative agreement pending ratification by the Boards and such.
 
The new Dayliner service will be centred in Nanaimo with service starting there in the morning, going to Victoria, leaving Victoria on the traditional run to Courtenay and back and then return to Nanaimo.  SVI put together the business plan that has now come to fruition.
 
Once all the stuff is signed and the funding is released the track and bridge work should take around 9 months.
 
What a great day!  We've all waited so long.
 
I'll upload pictures later.
 
Yes!

 
Fantastic news!
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Apr 2nd, 2014, 4:10pm
Chris C - All-
 
Don't get too excited about all of it! The challenge is in the getting past the embedded bureaucracy...
 
Your writer much surprised any proposal did not involve substitute highway!
 
...........................Vern..............................
 
Posted by: Goose5 Posted on: Apr 2nd, 2014, 4:23pm
I've refrained from posting anything on all the threads related to this, but lets all give kudos and a big shout out to VIA, SVI and the ICF. We may have our differences with them, but if this indeed comes to fruition, and we all hope it does, they all deserve our thanks for a job well done. They are least thinking toward the future. Hopefully they can then try to get a few more freight customers back after that.
 
Dave
Posted by: cn2220 Posted on: Apr 2nd, 2014, 4:32pm
http://metronews.ca/news/victoria/991311/passenger-rail-returning-to-vancouver-island/
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 2nd, 2014, 5:53pm
http://www.cfax1070.com/News/Top-Stories/Rail-service-to-move-forward-on-Vancouver-Island
Posted by: CroftonSpur88 Posted on: Apr 2nd, 2014, 9:16pm
No deal has been reached.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/no-vancouver-island-railway-deal-yet-says-via-rail-1.2595095
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 2nd, 2014, 10:53pm
on Apr 2nd, 2014, 9:16pm, CroftonSpur88 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
No deal has been reached.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/no-vancouver-island-railway-deal-yet-says-via-rail-1.2595095

 
Gagnon is just being inexplicably literal.
 
Judith Sayers is on record (this afternoon on CBC Radio) saying that they had written permission from VIA that they could announce the tentative agreement and the details that they did and that the deal simply has to be finalized and ratified.  
 
For Gagnon to be so literal and state the agreement hasn't been signed and thus isn't an agreement is pretty inexplicably hard headed.
 
I'd like to see that email from VIA to Sayers.  I'm willing to bet it wasn't from Gagnon! lol.
 
"Tentative Agreement" is very specific legal language.  It's not something you just throw around without agreement from the parties involved.
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 12:08am
Much ado about nothing.  The deal is done.  Just needs to be ratified:
 
Judith Sayers:
 
"VIA says no agreement until it is signed-which is true- but agree in e mail to ICF a tentative deal has been reached"
 
https://twitter.com/kekinusuqs/status/451568032926560257
 
"We Announced a tentative deal that needs to be ratified by 3 boards-VIA, SVI & ICF-negotiators recommend to bds" [boards]
https://twitter.com/kekinusuqs/statu...66764212502530
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 12:45am
It would be great news IF IT WAS TRUE.  
 
I doubt that it is true.
Posted by: thehighwayman Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 1:01am
I will not jump up and down and cheer until the deal is signed AND track repairs are fully under way.
Otherwise, this "announcement" may just be a premature ejaculation.
 
Will MacKenzie
Flamborough, ON
Posted by: CroftonSpur88 Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 1:57am
Quote from The CBC article:  
 
"VIA Rail says there is no deal to restore passenger rail service on the Southern Railway of Vancouver Island, despite an announcement earlier today by the Island Corridor Foundation that it had reached a tentative agreement with VIA to bring trains back"
 
 So. From the article, Note the word " deal". When you are done noting it, note the word "no". Then, note that the word "no" is next to the word "deal". Together, they combine to form "no deal". That does not sound like a "tentative deal", or even worse "the deal is done" . But hey, I learned a long time ago that you'll never see it my way, and that's fine. And for once, I hope I'm wrong....
 
 
on Apr 3rd, 2014, 12:08am, chrisale wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Much ado about nothing.  The deal is done.  Just needs to be ratified:
 
Judith Sayers:
 
"VIA says no agreement until it is signed-which is true- but agree in e mail to ICF a tentative deal has been reached"
 
https://twitter.com/kekinusuqs/status/451568032926560257
 
"We Announced a tentative deal that needs to be ratified by 3 boards-VIA, SVI & ICF-negotiators recommend to bds" [boards]
https://twitter.com/kekinusuqs/statu...66764212502530
Posted by: blackdog Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 4:47am
Well, guys, look at it this way. If all your negative comments DO prove to be correct, you'll have the HUGE satisfaction of seeing the ICF people humiliated and with lots of public egg on their faces! So whichever way it goes you'll be happy!
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 8:26am
on Apr 3rd, 2014, 4:47am, blackdog wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Well, guys, look at it this way. If all your negative comments DO prove to be correct, you'll have the HUGE satisfaction of seeing the ICF people humiliated and with lots of public egg on their faces! So whichever way it goes you'll be happy!

 
Indeed! Hooray for that!
Posted by: 404 Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 12:37pm
Well, as Bon Scott of AC/DC once sang-"it's a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll"!
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 5:35pm
on Apr 3rd, 2014, 4:47am, blackdog wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Well, guys, look at it this way. If all your negative comments DO prove to be correct, you'll have the HUGE satisfaction of seeing the ICF people humiliated and with lots of public egg on their faces! So whichever way it goes you'll be happy!
Well after three years of taking turns feeding us bull they suddenly want us to start believing them?
 
When I see the choo choo, choo chooing its way past 26th in Courtenay I'll believe it.  
 
 
The killer to me is the part where the trains will be in Nanaimo and start an early commuter run. According to people I know at VIA this ain't never going to happen.  
 
It looks like more Sir Graham of Misinformation, bologna that don't make for good sandwiches.
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 6:31pm
Actually, to use Mr. Gagnon's words, he said "no formal agreement" has been reached.  He has never said no "tentative" agreement has been reached.  
 
From the Times Colonist:
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/islanders-and-via-rail-at-odds-over-whether-there-s-a-deal-1.940302
Quote:

Asked about the foundation’s description of a “tentative deal,” Gagnon said: “I would leave it to them to describe what is a tentative agreement or an agreement in principle. We all know that, in business, a contract is valid from the moment both parties sign and we’re not there.”

 
So he's just playing with words.  Clearly some sort of agreement has been reached either tentatively or in principle.  Which means, based on what we all know about how contracts in business work, it only needs to be finalized and signed in order to be, in his words "valid".
 
I've never, ever, heard of such intransigence in negotiations before.  Very Very strange behaviour from VIA.
Posted by: JRPhotography Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 6:54pm
Well after sitting back and reading the various news releases I find it hard not to comment. I am nervously excited to believe we are close to a deal but there is no deal as of yet. The ICF has been receiving pressure from various areas that faith has been lost in their ability to get the trains moving and its time for a change. Within a few weeks the ICF holds a press conference to announce that a "Tentative" agreement has been reached but not approved. At the same time, VIA Rail has reiterated that no deal has been met and doesn't share the same statements as the ICF nor have we heard from SVI. Common sense is telling me that it looks as though this is an attempt to "buy" some more time. I personally find it very interesting that only 1/3 of the parties were at such an important press release. I would think that a representative from each party would be on hand for this type of announcement, as we now see some conflicting information from two of the parties. I really don't know what to believe at the moment. I want to believe that the ICF has just jumped the gun with enthusiasm and a further release from VIA and SVI is to follow but I'm sorry this is not the first time I have got my hopes up and left to wonder.
 
Cheers,
 
JR
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 10:19pm
on Apr 3rd, 2014, 6:54pm, JRPhotography wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Well after sitting back and reading the various news releases I find it hard not to comment. I am nervously excited to believe we are close to a deal but there is no deal as of yet. The ICF has been receiving pressure from various areas that faith has been lost in their ability to get the trains moving and its time for a change. Within a few weeks the ICF holds a press conference to announce that a "Tentative" agreement has been reached but not approved. At the same time, VIA Rail has reiterated that no deal has been met and doesn't share the same statements as the ICF nor have we heard from SVI. Common sense is telling me that it looks as though this is an attempt to "buy" some more time. I personally find it very interesting that only 1/3 of the parties were at such an important press release. I would think that a representative from each party would be on hand for this type of announcement, as we now see some conflicting information from two of the parties. I really don't know what to believe at the moment. I want to believe that the ICF has just jumped the gun with enthusiasm and a further release from VIA and SVI is to follow but I'm sorry this is not the first time I have got my hopes up and left to wonder.
 
Cheers,
 
JR

 
SVI was at the announcement, Frank Butzelaar sent his regrets, Don MacGregor and the full crew from Welcox were all there and genuinely excited for the announcement.
 
 
Nanaimo-Alberni MP James Lunney seems not too pleased with VIAs statements.
http://www.pqbnews.com/news/253817591.html
 
BREAKING NEWS: MP Lunney says there is a tentative deal between VIA and Southern Rail
Quote:

 
Nanaimo-Alberni MP James Lunney said Thursday he has learned through "high-level discussions" there is a tentative agreement between Southern Rail and VIA Rail for the re-start of passenger rail service on Vancouver Island.
 
While VIA Rail officials say negotiations continue and there is no agreement of any kind to announce, Lunney said he was disappointed VIA didn't participate in the Island Corridor Foundation's news conference Wednesday that proclaimed a "tentative agreement" had been reached between VIA and Southern.
 
"It is disappointing that VIA didn't stand with the ICF at this time," said Lunney. "I have assurance from both ends that there is a tentative agreement. The agreement is there."
 
Lunney would not speculate on when any official announcement would come, but he said "there's no excuses for delaying anymore."
 

 
 
 
Posted by: JRPhotography Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 11:27pm
I realize there were employees there from SVI but I'm sorry to me someone from the upper ranks should have been on hand to answer questions or give a statement. ICF can only speak for its self which they did but neither of the other parties were there to add there piece and VIA obviously has a different opinion than ICF.
 
Cheers,
 
JR
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 12:21am
on Apr 3rd, 2014, 11:27pm, JRPhotography wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I realize there were employees there from SVI but I'm sorry to me someone from the upper ranks should have been on hand to answer questions or give a statement. ICF can only speak for its self which they did but neither of the other parties were there to add there piece and VIA obviously has a different opinion than ICF.
 
Cheers,
 
JR

 
Don MacGregor was standing right next to Graham Bruce the entire time during the annoucement.  He was referenced by Ms. Ashley during the announcement as having come up with the business plan.  I'm sure the media could have asked him whatever they wanted on behalf of SVI.
 
I don't remember Frank Butzelaar at any other ICF announcement so I'm not sure why he would have to be there now when he has people there to answer anything that comes up.  Unlike VIA.
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 12:30am
The statement of congratulations from Nanaimo-Alberni MP James Lunney:
http://www.jameslunneymp.ca/english/?p=3008
 
Quote:

April 2, 2014
 
Re: Train Service Agreement
 
As the Member of Parliament for Nanaimo-Alberni, I am pleased that the Southern Rail and Via have been able to come to agreement on a long- awaited Train Service Agreement.
 
Today is a day to celebrate this milestone and a new opportunity to keep a rail future on Vancouver Island. I know Southern and ICF are well-advanced in preparation to complete the upgrades and restore service.
 
With a vastly improved and user-friendly schedule, I am sure our Island communities and residents will take up the opportunity that restored service represents. This has been a long and challenging process.
 
I am pleased that the provincial government stepped forward, which allowed us to secure a matching federal contribution, the Regional Districts and local communities have all played a role to bring us to this day. Today, I congratulate everyone involved, let’s all pull together, take advantage of the opportunity and ensure that a rail that brought Vancouver Island into Confederation as part of British Columbia remains a vital part of life and experience on Vancouver Island for residents and visitors alike.
 
With my hearty congratulations,
James Lunney MP
 
Nanaimo-Alberni

 
And today I personally emailed Jaques Gagnon to get his direct answers to 4 questions.  He could not have been much more... short.
 
This is Verbatim:
Quote:

Has a tentative agreement been reached with Southern Railway as was announced by the ICF yesterday? There is no formal agreement reached between VIA Rail Canada and SVI/ICF
 
Did VIA email the ICF and SVI permission to hold the press conference yesterday and use the term tentative agreement as co-Chair Judith Sayers has indicated in public interviews? No
 
Will the tentative agreement be submitted to the VIA Rail board for ratification and if so when? Hypothetical
 
Are there details you can share about the tentative agreement that the ICF has not already shared? No

 
on Apr 3rd, 2014, 11:46pm, Chris_C wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I can understand GB and the ICF's frustration if that is the level of response they are getting too....  
 

Ya.
Sounds like James Lunney is rather annoyed with the response from VIA too.
 
I think Jaques Gagnon has been listening to too many VI naysayers who have him on speed dial.  Perhaps that's part of the reason it has taken so long... And why the story didn't change from Gagnon for so long while it appears a completely different deal emerged above his head.
 
http://www.pqbnews.com/news/253817591.html
Quote:

"Nanaimo-Alberni MP James Lunney said Thursday he has learned through "high-level discussions" there is a tentative agreement between Southern Rail and VIA Rail for the re-start of passenger rail service on Vancouver Island.
 
While VIA Rail officials say negotiations continue and there is no agreement of any kind to announce, Lunney said he was disappointed VIA didn't participate in the Island Corridor Foundation's news conference Wednesday that proclaimed a "tentative agreement" had been reached between VIA and Southern.
 
"It is disappointing that VIA didn't stand with the ICF at this time," said Lunney. "I have assurance from both ends that there is a tentative agreement. The agreement is there."
 
Lunney would not speculate on when any official announcement would come, but he said "there's no excuses for delaying anymore."

 
And Gagnon's "there is no FORMAL agreement" got broken down by the Times Colonist.
 
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/islanders-and-via-rail-at-odds-over-whether-there-s-a-deal-1.940302
 
Quote:

Via Rail spokesman Jacques Gagnon was less effusive. “As of today, there’s no deal that has been signed,” he said. “I’m not privy to the verbatim of what the announcement was earlier today, but I can only state that discussions are still ongoing and, as of now, there’s no signed deal.”
 
Asked about the foundation’s description of a “tentative deal,” Gagnon said: “I would leave it to them to describe what is a tentative agreement or an agreement in principle. We all know that, in business, a contract is valid from the moment both parties sign and we’re not there.”
 

 
Mr. gagnon also knows that tentative agreement and agreement in principle are also extremely common business terms.  The fact he insists on saying a "valid contract" is not in place, which the ICF has never suggested, but does not deny that a tentative or agreement in principle is... Just shows he's avoiding, and most likely the ICF and SVI are right, there is a tentative agreement, or whatever you want to call it. lol.
Posted by: JRPhotography Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 12:35am
Thanks Chris I appreciate your thoughts on my post. As I stated I'm not sure what to believe at this point.  
 
Until next month...  
 
Cheers,
 
JR
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 12:43am
on Apr 4th, 2014, 12:35am, JRPhotography wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Thanks Chris I appreciate your thoughts on my post. As I stated I'm not sure what to believe at this point.  
 
Until next month...  
 
Cheers,
 
JR

 
No worries.  ICF AGM is the week after next, so let's hope this thing gets ratified then!
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 11:11am
on Apr 4th, 2014, 12:43am, chrisale wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
No worries.  ICF AGM is the week after next, so let's hope this thing gets ratified then!

 
The Peak Radio in Port Alberni is reporting this morning  that VIA Rail is says "There is a tentative agreement on the table that must be signed".  That's a quote from Mylene Bélanger, not Jaques Gagnon.  Discussions are ongoing to finalize it before it is ratified.
 
Gee.  Why couldn't they have said that on Wednesday.  Yeesh.
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 12:02pm
All Hands -  
 
Use of word 'tentative'? As a blanket remark, lawyers are most careful in use of language. A grammar mentor might suggest the  
word a 'conditional operator' (otherwise, 'weasel word'?). Or, as used, it likely means, "...maybe it can happen, maybe it won't?)...
 
Patience will be its own reward here? In your own writer's critiques here, suggestion the complex of several entities, all at cross  
purposes, present a very challenging administrative set of issues. As the late Abraham Lincoln once remarked, more or less,  
"...You can't please all of the people, all of the time!...". Recall, he was a Lawyer by training and experience...
 
.........................FWIW....................Vern.......................
Posted by: Jamie_Masters Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 12:23pm
on Apr 4th, 2014, 12:02pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
All Hands -  
 
Use of word 'tentative'? As a blanket remark, lawyers are most careful in use of language. A grammar mentor might suggest the  
word a 'conditional operator' (otherwise, 'weasel word'?). Or, as used, it likely means, "...maybe it can happen, maybe it won't?)...
 
Patience will be its own reward here? In your own writer's critiques here, suggestion the complex of several entities, all at cross  
purposes, present a very challenging administrative set of issues. As the late Abraham Lincoln once remarked, more or less,  
"...You can't please all of the people, all of the time!...". Recall, he was a Lawyer by training and experience...
 
.........................FWIW....................Vern.......................

 "You can't please all of the people, all of the time ". I hereby submit that this becomes the official E&N/ICF slogan from this day forward.
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 12:30pm
Jamie -
 
Thanks! I try! It ain't easy being an Old Coot Emeritus with occasional observations of reality! Life ain't fair?
 
..........................Vern........................
Posted by: blackdog Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 12:33pm
Leaving aside the question whether anyone can believe anything they are told by any of the major players in this saga, there are some questions which I would have raised at this event had I been there, and had it been a properly constituted press conference (as I would understand that in England).
VIA Rail said it would NOT sign up to anything that cost more than the 1.4million per annum  it had previously spent.
Nanaimo-Victoria-Courtenay-Victoria-Nanaimo, involves an extra return Nanaimo-Victoria trip over and above what was previously operated. That must cost more than it cost previously.
Since the previous timetable took from around 8am-6pm to complete, VIA is either going to need to set out from Nanaimo at around 5am and get back there at about 9pm, OR the train is going to have to go substantially faster.  
I doubt that a spot-re-sleepering patch up job will allow trains to tun faster than before (was the speed limit 45mph?) and you would need long stretches at 65mph-plus to fit that journey diagram into a workable timescale.
Furthermore, it would surely require more than one crew - possibly changing crews at Nanaimo with one crew working a split shift.
Subjecting this whole thing to practical scruntiny seems to me to show that you can't get all that extra mileage for the same money. So unless someone has agreed to stump up extra subsidy cash, the whole thing doesn't wash.
CHRIS LEIGH
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 12:42pm
on Apr 4th, 2014, 12:23pm, Jamie_Masters wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 "You can't please all of the people, all of the time ". I hereby submit that this becomes the official E&N/ICF slogan from this day forward.

 
I second that motion!  All in Favour?!
 
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 1:15pm
CHRIS LEIGH dba blackdog - All -
 
Thanks for your objective Operations Analysis! (This is way above pay grade for the 'railfan' element!)
 
As I am incurable Operations Junkie, I relate to it. I don't claim to foresee the future. If this entire matter does not  
reduce to a couple of Highway Coach schedules, each way, your writer will be astonished. (What's wrong with that?  
New Highway Coaches have Wi-Fi!)
 
In event, it does not solve the, "...Where's the freight?..." issues...
 
.............................Vern.......................
 
 
 
Posted by: Chris_C Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 1:24pm
on Apr 4th, 2014, 12:33pm, blackdog wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Leaving aside the question whether anyone can believe anything they are told by any of the major players in this saga, there are some questions which I would have raised at this event had I been there, and had it been a properly constituted press conference (as I would understand that in England).
VIA Rail said it would NOT sign up to anything that cost more than the 1.4million per annum  it had previously spent.
Nanaimo-Victoria-Courtenay-Victoria-Nanaimo, involves an extra return Nanaimo-Victoria trip over and above what was previously operated. That must cost more than it cost previously.
Since the previous timetable took from around 8am-6pm to complete, VIA is either going to need to set out from Nanaimo at around 5am and get back there at about 9pm, OR the train is going to have to go substantially faster.  
I doubt that a spot-re-sleepering patch up job will allow trains to tun faster than before (was the speed limit 45mph?) and you would need long stretches at 65mph-plus to fit that journey diagram into a workable timescale.
Furthermore, it would surely require more than one crew - possibly changing crews at Nanaimo with one crew working a split shift.
Subjecting this whole thing to practical scruntiny seems to me to show that you can't get all that extra mileage for the same money. So unless someone has agreed to stump up extra subsidy cash, the whole thing doesn't wash.
CHRIS LEIGH

 
I thought it was said that SRVI and the ICF were going to take up any of the additional costs and risk over the standard VIA yearly investment?
 
Posted by: 404 Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 1:54pm
I don't think the track work will take 9 months.
 
I've seen as much as 1 mile being fixed in a day.
 
If they get a big enough crew I think it will go much faster depending on what trestle work is being done.
 
I wonder if the CN buddcar will come over to test the track?
Posted by: 404 Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 2:22pm
A good slogan, indeed Chrisale.
 
However, If I can suggest another possible choice.
 
To quote Pro wrestler "Rowdy Roddy Piper"-" Just when you think you got the answers-I change the questions"!
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 2:36pm
on Apr 4th, 2014, 2:22pm, 404 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
A good slogan, indeed Chrisale.
 
However, If I can suggest another possible choice.
 
To quote Pro wrestler "Rowdy Roddy Piper"-" Just when you think you got the answers-I change the questions"!

 
LOL... I always had a soft spot for Rowdy Roddy Piper!  Is that a friendly amendment to the motion?
 
Came across this this morning from the Times Colonist, a feature interview with Southern Railway. We now have the tri-fecta represented.
 
http://www.timescolonist.com/southern-railway-buoyed-by-tentative-deal-for-island-service-1.942264
"Southern Railway buoyed by tentative deal for Island service"
Quote:

Don McGregor, project manager for railways infrastructure improvement at Southern, said that while the deal hasn’t been finalized, it marks a significant step in the project negotiations.
 
“We feel very good about it, we think it’s fair on both sides,” McGregor said.
 
“We took the better part of two years to arrive at this point, so I believe it’s significant.”
 
McGregor emphasized the word “tentative.” The boards of all three organizations must approve the agreement and finalize funding before any work begins.
 
He couldn’t share any details of the deal, saying they are “confidential at this point.”
 
The Southern board is expected to approve the deal in a matter of “weeks, maybe a couple of months,” he said, but could not speak to the boards of Via Rail or the Island Corridor Foundation.
 
He said Southern and Via Rail have been working “very well” together.
 

 
 
 
Posted by: SRY 110 Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 2:48pm
Choo Choo folks....work will start this summer...
Posted by: cn2220 Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 6:40pm
on Apr 4th, 2014, 1:54pm, 404 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I wonder if the CN buddcar will come over to test the track?

 
I highly doubt it.
Posted by: 404 Posted on: Apr 4th, 2014, 11:37pm
Ahhh 2220 you are such a party pooper!
Posted by: 95XXX Posted on: Apr 5th, 2014, 10:16am
http://www.nanaimodailynews.com/news/proposed-rail-agreement-requires-ratification-1.942437
 
Tentative agreement is on the table.
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Apr 5th, 2014, 11:03am
on Apr 5th, 2014, 10:16am, 95XXX wrote:       (Click here for original message)
http://www.nanaimodailynews.com/news/proposed-rail-agreement-requires-ratification-1.942437
 
Tentative agreement is on the table.

 
95XXX -
 
Thanks! We'll see! This has to be classic, "Mission Impossible"? How can so many parties ever mutually agree to the deal?
 
.........................Vern..........................
Posted by: 404 Posted on: Apr 5th, 2014, 8:06pm
Mission impossible?
 
Hey that gives me an idea how to sneak into an ICF meeting-hang soeone down from the ceiling vent like in the movie!
 
Good idea, Vern!
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Apr 6th, 2014, 7:48am
404 -  
 
Thanks! I try! You hint that some entities appear to run as "Eyes Only - Destroy Before Reading" basis?
 
Remember, too, in the lexicon of billable Lawyer time, the 'uptown' 'tentative' used when others rely on 'maybe'...
 
.........................Vern......................
Posted by: chrisale Posted on: Apr 6th, 2014, 11:41am
Granted this is not a labour dispute, but given the strict confidentiality and following of procedure that seems to have apparent during these negotiations, I would say there is a good chance the parties (VIA and SVI) could be said to be abiding by these definitions.
http://www.ofm.wa.gov/labor/resources/glossary.asp
"A critical part of any negotiation is a common understanding of the terminology involved with labor law. The following are commonly used terms and their definition."
 
"TENTATIVE AGREEMENT—The agreement reached through bargaining prior to its ratification or final approval by the negotiators’ constituencies."
 
With a "very" (SVI) tentative agreement "on the table" (VIA) the question is can that agreement be signed at each earliest possible board meeting and ratified with the finest details then dealt with with regular communication between the parties.  We simply won't know as the parties continue to follow strict confidentiality.
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 12th, 2014, 10:13pm
I find it hard to believe that after a week and a half or so we still have some believing this charade was anything but an attempt to get the RDN to cancel the non confidence motion. I thought the Nanaimo mayor was a bit brighter than he evidenced at the RDN meeting I spoke at. He wanted to put off the vote for a few weeks just to make sure that if there really was an agreement that the RDN was possibly going to jinx it.  
 
I see that some on here not only dream in technicolour but in HD as well.  
 
Posted by: 404 Posted on: Apr 12th, 2014, 10:47pm
I find it amusing that the ICf put out all the press releases but all news reports on the tv stations, the last sentence all the reporters used was "the ICF won't return our phone calls".
 
Put out a story and then not talk to the media?
 
Liberal trickery at its finest.
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 12th, 2014, 10:53pm
Hey, don't blame that washout on us. At best he was a poor Social credit wannabe.  
Posted by: CroftonSpur88 Posted on: Apr 12th, 2014, 11:26pm
Socred in sheep's clothing....
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 12th, 2014, 11:36pm
Shhhhhhhhhh we're trying to keep that a secrete.
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 12th, 2014, 11:36pm
We just hope it doesn't stink too bad.
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 24th, 2014, 5:36pm
I am hearing that the whole bone of contention with any supposed altered agreement is this wish that the service start in Nanaimo. The original TSA is still valid and just suspended pending the railroad getting their track fixed.  
 
The VIA people have clearly stated when they return the TSA will be as is right now with no added cost and all things would be as they were. Units serviced in Victoria, runs starting and ending in Victoria, units overnight stored in Victoria and with no change to the monetary agreement.
Posted by: CroftonSpur88 Posted on: Aug 23rd, 2016, 5:46pm
on Apr 2nd, 2014, 3:21pm, chrisale wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I am truly stunned at the magnitude of the victory for the railway today!  VIA and SVI have come to a tentative agreement pending ratification by the Boards and such.
 
The new Dayliner service will be centred in Nanaimo with service starting there in the morning, going to Victoria, leaving Victoria on the traditional run to Courtenay and back and then return to Nanaimo.  SVI put together the business plan that has now come to fruition.
 
Once all the stuff is signed and the funding is released the track and bridge work should take around 9 months.
 
What a great day!  We've all waited so long.
 
I'll upload pictures later.
 
Yes!

 
"Great day".....ha. Over  2 years later from the date of the "deal" and still no train. Some people will believe anything...lol
Posted by: ENR3005 Posted on: Aug 24th, 2016, 11:55pm
It likely marked the beginning of the end which was unknown to us at that time. Only in Canada could we make such a mess of a scenario that offered such potential. There are too many agendas which appear to be motivated by greedy little plans to milk this cow till it is dead. Truly disappointing and sad. I guess we have to look further north to that other railway on the north end of the island which many of us likely haven't visited. At least it still runs.
Posted by: CroftonSpur88 Posted on: Aug 25th, 2016, 3:41pm
on Aug 24th, 2016, 11:55pm, ENR3005 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
There are too many agendas which appear to be motivated by greedy little plans to milk this cow till it is dead.

 
Nailed it right on the head. And too many people fiddled while Rome burned all in the name of "not causing trouble".
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Oct 12th, 2016, 3:26pm
on Aug 25th, 2016, 3:41pm, CroftonSpur88 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Nailed it right on the head. And too many people fiddled while Rome burned all in the name of "not causing trouble".

Just listened to the local radio news report and it quotes Judith Sayers as being perplexed that the motion put forth by the conference on the Island about the ICF lack of credibility and the lack of information forthcoming from that not so august board is too secretive. This and she claims that they are always open and answering to all the communities. I would think that she must think our naivety is beyond belief.
Posted by: blackdog Posted on: Oct 16th, 2016, 10:33am
Have you read her rebuttal of the report?
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Oct 17th, 2016, 1:57am
on Oct 16th, 2016, 10:33am, blackdog wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Have you read her rebuttal of the report?
Yes on another rail forum and on the ICF website. The whole kit and caboodle of them is not worth a fiddlers figgy.  
Posted by: blackdog Posted on: Oct 26th, 2016, 4:44pm
Seems to me that the whole ICF thing is just a means to return the corridor land to the control of the native peoples, or to give them the impression that they control it. They, however, will only be interested in the land - not in running trains on it or doing anything useful with it.  
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Oct 27th, 2016, 12:45pm
on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:44pm, blackdog wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Seems to me that the whole ICF thing is just a means to return the corridor land to the control of the native peoples, or to give them the impression that they control it. They, however, will only be interested in the land - not in running trains on it or doing anything useful with it.  
The whole issue smells of ineptness and there are still those preferring to blindly support where no MAN has gone before. Over two years since that foolish press release and still nothing. The only real kicker is they have not said anything about pending VIA deals since that debacle ended.
 
I wonder if Heller could have come up with such a scenario when he was authoring "Catch 22?"
 
Posted by: CroftonSpur88 Posted on: Apr 7th, 2017, 12:14am
on Apr 2nd, 2014, 3:21pm, chrisale wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I am truly stunned at the magnitude of the victory for the railway today!  VIA and SVI have come to a tentative agreement pending ratification by the Boards and such.
 
The new Dayliner service will be centred in Nanaimo with service starting there in the morning, going to Victoria, leaving Victoria on the traditional run to Courtenay and back and then return to Nanaimo.  SVI put together the business plan that has now come to fruition.
 
Once all the stuff is signed and the funding is released the track and bridge work should take around 9 months.
 
What a great day!  We've all waited so long.
 
I'll upload pictures later.
 
Yes!

 
Well, here we are, a few days over exactly 3 years ago since this "victory for the railway".  
 
Suckers. There's one born every minute.
 
 
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Apr 7th, 2017, 8:32am
Crofton - Lodge Members -
 
SIGH! Seasoned lawyers and barristers often use a phrase, "Pyrrhic Victory". Useful way of stating matters?
 
A vital issue otherwise? Where's the freight? Absent solid cargo hauls, where funds to support continuing  
overheads of costs of plant? Just another bill to pay for Nanaimo area taxpayers? (Old movie. Wake me when  
it is over.)
 
..................  Vern  .................
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 7th, 2017, 7:48pm
on Apr 7th, 2017, 8:32am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Crofton - Lodge Members -
 
SIGH! Seasoned lawyers and barristers often use a phrase, "Pyrrhic Victory". Useful way of stating matters?
 
A vital issue otherwise? Where's the freight? Absent solid cargo hauls, where funds to support continuing  
overheads of costs of plant? Just another bill to pay for Nanaimo area taxpayers? (Old movie. Wake me when  
it is over.)
 
..................  Vern  .................

Vern old buddy, you forgot the obligatory YAWN!!!!
Posted by: George_Harris Posted on: Apr 8th, 2017, 12:37am
When I read this statement by chrisale in another thread, Quote:
The railways future will be in a healthy mix of freight, passenger and commuter traffic.
I could hardly think of a polite response and still can't.  If there is a railroad in North America operating with a positive cash flow from passenger and commuter service, particularly commuter service, let me know.  Therefore, if such a mix is considered healthy financially, I don't see how, unless you are looking at the 1920's or earlier.
 
The only commuter service that I can think of that has ever been profitable in my now 70 plus year lifetime was that of the Chicago and Northwestern into Chicago and that was quite a few years back.  One of the commenters in the the trade press about it ran like, "It is like watching a hippopotamus do ballet.  It is not that it does it so well, but that it is able to do it at all."
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 8th, 2017, 11:36pm
Moonbeam would do well in California. He can outweird the weird found there.
Posted by: George_Harris Posted on: Apr 8th, 2017, 11:58pm
on Apr 8th, 2017, 11:36pm, Dennis Dalla-Vicenza wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moonbeam would do well in California. He can outweird the weird found there.

I don't know about your weird sufficiently to argue.  However, if they are anywhere close to each other my recommendation would be that the response of all people potentially affected should be the same as in the following redneck joke:
 
When the guy says, "Here, hold my beer and watch this," you should run to put as much distance between you and him as possible as those are likely to be his last words and the last life experience for anyone near him.  
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Apr 9th, 2017, 8:31am
George - Lodge Members -
 
Background for readers? A search helpful for BEN HEINEMAN Obituary - Chicago, IL | Chicago Tribune
 
The ca. 1960 experience at C&NW and its commuter system, unique to Chicago. It needed much work, prior his  
arrive at the railroad. Many of the service runs held down system schedules with second hand rolling stock, no  
longer needed on C&NW "400" intercity network. Also, much older, nearly archaic commute service coaches.  
More, many Chicago commute runs with steam power...
 
Yes, yes! With Heineman, C&NW acquired a large order of the bi-level commute cars. The steam power ended,  
as more Diesel units moved from ending "400" services. The trade press impressed, and all of it with much good p.r.
 
Whether it actually yielded net returns? It would take some forensic accounting to check just how much magic and  
finance came into play. Ledger sheets can tell any story wished by the client? (Related, in the era, it the accounting  
work which Lou Menk used to shut down the CB&Q "Zephyr System" operations.)
 
...................  Vern  ....................
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Apr 9th, 2017, 6:13pm
Vern et al,
 
Rode the Westshore route trains ex Chicago via West Allis bound o football games numerous times. I preferred the sway of the old heavyweights but didn't get the two tiered system use until GO in the Toronto / Burlington runs for a couple years when we were traded from the home company to the competitor to gauge differences in material metallurgical practices between the companies.  
 
When you look at the train traffic into and out of Canada's largest city you see it has doubled since I regularly used it but on the flip side the highways which we about 6 lanes in each direction are now upwards of twenty in each direction depending on what you call express, feeder and collectors. If Toronto was to go 100% commuter rail tomorrow the workings would come to a standstill; something totally lost on the minions of today.  
Posted by: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Posted on: Nov 12th, 2017, 2:20am
This thread is a great comic relief. Its been 1320 days since this big announcement and we are still going nowhere fast. Makes me so happy I had the OP pegged for a BK all those years ago.  
Posted by: CroftonSpur88 Posted on: Nov 17th, 2017, 10:05pm
It is indeed quite silly. Almost as much as the "E&N Track Work" thread.