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   Post reply ( Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria )
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Topic Summary
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Mar 17th, 2008, 1:21am
I did a little poking around along the tracks behind the warehouses that front onto Viewfield Road. I knew some of the warehouses were once served by rail. Much to my suprise, there are still ties in the ground, some with tie plates and spikes, and two full sets of switch ties, and possible evidence of a third switch.  
 
I've sketched the track layout onto the attached Google Earth image...
 
Does anyone have an pictures of this area while the warehouses were still served by the railway?
 
Andrew
Posted by: CN7059 Posted on: Mar 17th, 2008, 2:05am
I don't, unfortunately, however, I have done a great deal of poking around in that area, as I went to high school nearby. From what I understand, the trackage was removed in the 80s at some point, or possibly the early nineties. I know that the engineers of the Pacific Wilderness trains disliked that stretch because of the "art" gallery along the backs of those buildings. The people who contributed to the "art" would also contribute rocks to the train, delivered at high velocity, as well as full moons and one fingered salutes. This stretch of track is also why some hotels and cruise ship lines refused to promote PAW to their patrons. I remember watching the trains go by in June of my grade eight year, (the year they shut down). It provided a welcome relief from social studies.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Mar 17th, 2008, 6:52pm
Does my read of the leftovers agree with your memory of the track layout?
 
I agree on the 'art' thing. Perhaps they should post the conductors in the entrances of the cars with shotguns loaded with rock salt to keep the rock throwers at bay...
 
The section of track between devonshire and lampson is in terrible shape too...I saw a section where for at least 5 ties in a row the rail wasn't even close to touching the ties. The tie plates aren't lined up under the rail either, so when the rail drops it isn't sitting on anything flat...one day there might be a derailment in that area. A lot of the joints aren't resting on the ties either. They just float in space... Once enough of the ties rot, they're going to roll a rail over.
Posted by: CN7059 Posted on: Mar 17th, 2008, 8:11pm
I agree, they will eventually roll a rail. It will most likely be when one of the geeps comes down with a broken down budd car. The Budd cars themselves are so light footed that you could almost run them on two two by fours.
 
As for the track layout, what you have seems to make sense to me. I know that there were at least two sidings there at one point, and the stub end at the southern end of that stretch is necessary because of the bridge over Hereward, which is not apparent in the satellite image. Apart from that, I haven't been alive for long enough to remember when there was active service to those businesses, however I have been told that at one point there was a daily local from the yard in Esquimalt (sometimes twice daily) to spot cars at the various wholesale concerns.
Posted by: Cody Posted on: Mar 18th, 2008, 12:01am
I don't know guys.  I think you're heading for "curmedgeon" territory.  I don't think the urban kids and others who work on the trackside gallery are equivalent to the crack-heads who might through rocks at trains.   If anything giving the inspired types a wall to paint might keep them off crack.  It's the moronic kids with no artistic tendencies that become the rock throwers.
 
I take my daughter train-watching there on occasion and never have a problem or feel threatened.   I even spent an evening working in that ROW/alley after the Wholesale place's carboard compactor died.  It's pretty tame if you have some street smarts.
Posted by: CP8673 Posted on: Mar 18th, 2008, 12:40am
Rode by there many times in the 80's - both on the dayliner and on freights - I don't remember there being the stub spur there, but I will defer to anyone who can positively confirm or deny.  The rest of the layout was pretty much the way you have marked it, though.
Posted by: CN7059 Posted on: Mar 18th, 2008, 1:05am
on Mar 18th, 2008, 12:01am, Cody wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I don't know guys.  I think you're heading for "curmedgeon" territory.  I don't think the urban kids and others who work on the trackside gallery are equivalent to the crack-heads who might through rocks at trains.   If anything giving the inspired types a wall to paint might keep them off crack.  It's the moronic kids with no artistic tendencies that become the rock throwers.
 
I take my daughter train-watching there on occasion and never have a problem or feel threatened.   I even spent an evening working in that ROW/alley after the Wholesale place's carboard compactor died.  It's pretty tame if you have some street smarts.

 
As a person who went to the same school as most of the people who would be found along that stretch, I would say that 90% of them are no problem whatsoever, and the remaining 10% (probably less, in fact), are the ones that cause problems. The assertion that they throw rocks at the train, moon it, and flip it off came directly from crew members of the defunct PAW.
Posted by: tfctrains Posted on: Mar 18th, 2008, 1:18am
on Mar 17th, 2008, 6:52pm, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Does my read of the leftovers agree with your memory of the track layout?
 
I agree on the 'art' thing. Perhaps they should post the conductors in the entrances of the cars with shotguns loaded with rock salt to keep the rock throwers at bay...
 
The section of track between devonshire and lampson is in terrible shape too...I saw a section where for at least 5 ties in a row the rail wasn't even close to touching the ties. The tie plates aren't lined up under the rail either, so when the rail drops it isn't sitting on anything flat...one day there might be a derailment in that area. A lot of the joints aren't resting on the ties either. They just float in space... Once enough of the ties rot, they're going to roll a rail over.
I think if you were to walk any section of the E.N. you find the track in similar condition, I spend a lot of time walking the track south of Courtenay, like you say the joints are floating in mid air. Rumour has it when they do the annual track inspection you will see the track speed reduced to point the Budd Car will not be able to keep to the scedule. Three months to go before it is done! We  need the track work to begin now!
Posted by: ENR3005 Posted on: Apr 6th, 2008, 1:22am
on Mar 17th, 2008, 1:21am, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I did a little poking around along the tracks behind the warehouses that front onto Viewfield Road. I knew some of the warehouses were once served by rail. Much to my suprise, there are still ties in the ground, some with tie plates and spikes, and two full sets of switch ties, and possible evidence of a third switch.  
 
I've sketched the track layout onto the attached Google Earth image...
 
Does anyone have an pictures of this area while the warehouses were still served by the railway?
 
Andrew

 
Here is an actual CP drawing of the trackage to that area. There are four industries served by three spurs. The fourth industry on the left hand side of the drawing is not listed. Standard Furniture was the last industry served up until the mid 90s I believe when CP ripped out their switch for some reason without notice. They went bankrupt shortly afterwards.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Apr 6th, 2008, 3:31am
Yeah I had that map in my hand while I was poking around. The evidence doesn't jive with that map entirely. I don't recall the date of that drawing, but obviousely things could have been altered according to new requirements.
Posted by: ENR3005 Posted on: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:00pm
on Apr 6th, 2008, 3:31am, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Yeah I had that map in my hand while I was poking around. The evidence doesn't jive with that map entirely. I don't recall the date of that drawing, but obviousely things could have been altered according to new requirements.

 
I took a look at Hugh Fraser's E&N vid and sure enough there is a switchback in there. The vid is from 1989 and the tracks look to have been removed recently to the Safeway and Malkin Warehouse with many ties still in place. The later spur is still in place, not sure what this served perhaps someone else knows. A couple of screen grabs of what the area looked like back then and a boxcar at Standard Furniture and the later mystery spur.
Posted by: ENR3005 Posted on: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:05pm
Standard Furniture with a Railbox. The switch back looks like it diverged from the Standard furniture spur upon further inspection of the video.  You can make out the switch tie and diverging track on the left side of image.
Posted by: ENR3005 Posted on: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:15pm
Abandoned Safeway / Malkin warehouse spur and mystery spur in distance
Posted by: ENR3005 Posted on: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:40pm
Goose also posted a pic of this spur showing two RDCs passing on page 40 of the photo section and I believe photo 18.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Apr 6th, 2008, 5:12pm
Those terrible video captures are excellent! Those are the first images I've seen of the area from when tracks were still in the ground.
 
Posted by: torch Posted on: Apr 6th, 2008, 7:29pm
it  looks like a  switchback but i thought  it  was  actually a diamond... at least i faintly recall seeing that arrangement but  could be  wrong.. the  standard furniture spur AT the loading dock was only about a one car spot so i dont se how a loco AND  a freight car would be able to clear a switchback switch to get into the mystery spur.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Apr 7th, 2008, 3:56pm
The track layout I drew in my first post was a best guess based on the evidence that still exists. They must have completely removed the Malkin spur switch. There are two complete sets of swtich ties at the locations I indicated. However, I found one single piece of a tie sticking out about 18in past the other ties, which I thought could be the last fragment of evidence of a third swtich of the main. And I think it coincides with where the abandoned Malkin spur attached to the main... I'll have to check my notes and pictures when I get home.
 
I agree...the Std. Furn. spur looks a tad short to be able to service the switchback.
 
EDIT: The backside of those warehouses has changed somewhat over the years. Compare my recent google earth image to the video captures...
Posted by: ENR3005 Posted on: Apr 7th, 2008, 9:05pm
I would have to agree after re-watching the video again. The spur is too short and it looks as though there are some longer ties half way through the Standard Furniture spur. I would say the switch is off the Malkin / Safeway spur and not the main as there would have had to been two sets of crossovers.
Posted by: Goose5 Posted on: Apr 8th, 2008, 12:52pm
I have looked through my box of photos that I haven't posted yet and couldn't find any that showed the spurs or cars spotted on them. I wish now I had shot some around that area. There was the one mentioned earlier that I posted showing the dayliner photographed while standing on one of the spurs. I also have another similar one but that's it. I do remember the switchback spur from both walking along there and from watching the track while riding the dayliner, because they are quite rare around here. I remember the stub end being very short only able to hold a car or 2 at most and with it ending just before the ground dropped down to the street below, and with the switchback being quite short too, only able to fit a locomotive and 2 40 foot cars I think. The stub came off the first spur after crossing the bridge with the switchstand and points being just after the bridge deck ended. I haven't walked along there in years and most recently saw the area on a dayliner trip a couple of years ago. I remember the back of those buildings becoming totally covered in graffiti. Seeing the video captures of those spurs makes me think that if most of the sidings and spurs were still in place along the entire railroad serving active and thriving businesses, how busy the line would be. Ahhh, memories!
 
Dave
Posted by: ENR3005 Posted on: Apr 9th, 2008, 12:05pm
Thanks for the info Dave, that is one tiny switchback. Did you ever see any cars on the spur beyond the abandoned Safeway / Malkin warehouse or perhaps know who the customer was back in the 80s / 90s? I imagine something had to be going in or out of that spur otherwise it would have been torn up.
Posted by: torch Posted on: Apr 9th, 2008, 6:16pm
there  was another customer up untill the late 70s/early 80s that was on the  same spur as  the  very last  warehouse.. the track dropped down a bit in elevation and  crossed the  road into a small one level complex that had loading doors/dock.. if i remember correctly, i think the  building was  white with green trim..  anybody else  recall that? after the  track had been cut back to only the last  warehouse,the  tracks remained in the street for sometime.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Apr 9th, 2008, 7:00pm
I don't recall, but I have no doubt.
 
CP must have more maps of the railway in its various states. If only we could get access to the real CP archives...there must be a warehouse full of old drawings somewhere...
Posted by: torch Posted on: Apr 9th, 2008, 8:49pm
that building (ex customer) may still be there.
Posted by: hillbank Posted on: Apr 10th, 2008, 1:45am
The mystery spur that ENR3005 mentions could have been for Kelly Douglas, they are a grocery wholesaler and received many cars from both CP and CN in Victoria, they and Standard Furniture were the last to recieve cars on that section of track, during the late 80's when Victoria had three turns a week, sometimes the crews would switch these spurs at night when they were coimng South. another food company that had a spur in the area was Macdonalds Consolidated. The food and grocery companies have gone through mergers and name changes like many other industries over the years so it can become quite confusing to know who was who and when, food products were a main source of freight incoming on the E&N one just has to look at all the insulated boxcars in the pics that goose and others have posted from the early to mid 80,s  Sometimes the Victoria turns would have several cars for both Standard Furniture and Kelly Douglas so the extra cars would be spotted at the roundhouse and either unloaded there or spotted at the spurs a few days later.
Posted by: torch Posted on: Apr 10th, 2008, 2:22am
I mentioned this quite some time back here  but  i ll bring it  up again..  One  morning I was watching the  crew put their  train together in vic west yard to go north  and they added a railbox boxcar to the  FRONT of the  train...IN FRONT OF  THE LEAD LOCO! they left the yard  and  I follwed. they got to the standard  furn.  spur  and shoved the  car in  and then  proceeded north.. crazy, huh!
Posted by: hillbank Posted on: Apr 10th, 2008, 11:58pm
Hey Torch i saw the same thing happen only it was a Southern boxcar!
Posted by: torch Posted on: Apr 11th, 2008, 3:05am
crazy, right?  I mean its not like they were going  far  or anything but its  still the mainline.. mustve been a  brakeman riding the ladder of the box.
Posted by: BCOL764 Posted on: Apr 11th, 2008, 3:13am
on Apr 11th, 2008, 3:05am, torch wrote:       (Click here for original message)
crazy, right?  I mean its not like they were going  far  or anything but its  still the mainline.. mustve been a  brakeman riding the ladder of the box.

 
More common than you'd think. Rather than run light back to the yard, just take the whole train with you. They'd have to shove the car up there anyway, save yourself the extra trip down to the yard and back and take the whole train with ya. You're right, someone would have to be riding the point while they shove up there.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Apr 11th, 2008, 4:45pm
I know what you mean when you say 'main line', but, in reality, the Victoria yard limits extend to Langford or something like that...
 
I just wish I was around to see stuff like that. In the earliest days I can remember, they were down to ICG in Langford, and Superior in Esquimalt as far as I know. Fairly often they would pull the hopper cars from Top Shelf all the way to Victoria.
Posted by: BCOL764 Posted on: Apr 11th, 2008, 6:18pm
on Apr 11th, 2008, 4:45pm, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I know what you mean when you say 'main line', but, in reality, the Victoria yard limits extend to Langford or something like that...
 

 
Yard and yard limits are two different things, yard limits apply to main track outside a yard. Main track rules still apply.
Posted by: CN7059 Posted on: Apr 11th, 2008, 6:48pm
on Apr 11th, 2008, 4:45pm, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I know what you mean when you say 'main line', but, in reality, the Victoria yard limits extend to Langford or something like that...

 
 
Victoria yard ends near the old depot site at Russell's.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Apr 11th, 2008, 8:34pm
Would that be the difference BCOL764 refers to? The yard ends at Russel's, but the yard limits extend further?
Posted by: BCOL764 Posted on: Apr 11th, 2008, 9:05pm
on Apr 11th, 2008, 8:34pm, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Would that be the difference BCOL764 refers to? The yard ends at Russel's, but the yard limits extend further?

 
 
At one time when there were yard limits, yes. But not many railroads use yard limits anymore. CP uses Cautionary Limits and got rid of yard limits years ago. CN and SRY use neither, they use something called "Rule 105 territory". Long story short; yard limits don't exist anymore.
Posted by: CP8673 Posted on: Apr 11th, 2008, 10:09pm
on Apr 11th, 2008, 4:45pm, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I know what you mean when you say 'main line', but, in reality, the Victoria yard limits extend to Langford or something like that...
 
I just wish I was around to see stuff like that. In the earliest days I can remember, they were down to ICG in Langford, and Superior in Esquimalt as far as I know. Fairly often they would pull the hopper cars from Top Shelf all the way to Victoria.

 
Used to go to mile 9.3.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Apr 11th, 2008, 10:42pm
I see. Thanks for the info.
Posted by: Dayliner Posted on: Apr 16th, 2008, 4:20pm
Quote:
Used to go to mile 9.3.

 
I guess that was to accomodate switching at Coremart, which was a facing-point spur for southbound movements.  My 1973 timetable shows Victoria yard limits extending only as far as Esquimalt.  Anyone know when the change was made?
Posted by: CP8673 Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 9:27pm
on Apr 11th, 2008, 9:05pm, BCOL764 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 
At one time when there were yard limits, yes. But not many railroads use yard limits anymore. CP uses Cautionary Limits and got rid of yard limits years ago. CN and SRY use neither, they use something called "Rule 105 territory". Long story short; yard limits don't exist anymore.

Actually they technically still do, until May 28th, when Rule 93 gets dropped from the CROR.  But as Tyler said, nobody uses them anymore.
Posted by: Demian Posted on: Apr 26th, 2008, 1:34am
Has anyone ever noticed the CN and CP intermodal trailers that are always being unloaded at the Wilson Foods company on devonshire Rd. This is a rapidly growing grocery wholesaler that is in the former Standard Furniture and Safeway buildings. I see them as a promising customer prospect on the south island for inbound boxcars...Then again I suppose SRVI would probably not create a Victoria turn unless there was numerous carloadings to a few customers to make it worthwhile. I remember Standard Furniture recieving boxcars until mid 92 when they switched to truck because CP rail was too unreliable on the island. At the time they still had railcars come to Vancouver and Seattle where they were transloaded to truck for final deliverey to the island. Also I remember seeing boxcars on the Kelley Douglas Dist spur up until 1990. As a teenaged railfan in early 1992 I canvased local Victoria companys to see if they supported using rail. The majority were positive but did not trust CP rail. It seemed if CP could not get rid of their customers they killed them with no service. I even spoke with some former Victoria CP rail customers for instance the owner of Vic van and Storage. He was still livid a decade later and told me about how rail shipments were a vital part of his company in the early 1980s and CP ripped up his siding in the middle of the night without even consulting him. At the time he was receiving apx two hundred boxcars a year. I am very hopeful about traffic returning to the south island in the near future and crossing my fingers with regards to the ICF funding.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Apr 26th, 2008, 2:41pm
Welcome to the forum Demian, and great first post.
 
I know it's been said many times...but it's really too bad CP mistreated there customers so badly toward the end. I hope the line south of Duncan is used for freight traffic again, and not just a a commuter line.
 
I wonder how many box car loads the building that houses Fountain Tire and some shipping companies in Langford could put out. I wonder if Fountain Tire has shipments being transloaded to truck right now... The spur that ran down the side of that building is intact from the main all the way to the edge of the parking lot. That side of the building had at least six loading doors in the side when still serviced by rail...
Posted by: Demian Posted on: Apr 26th, 2008, 11:14pm
Thanks MinionII
 
I used to post under the handle "Calgary" a couple of years back.  Just bought a new computer and have always loved reading the discussions on this forum. I agree with you on the Jacklin Rd warehouse, I think there is a lot of potential rail customers still around.  You know it's ironic I used to railfan back in the 80's and 90's with my cousin VicGuy and we thought there was no other railfans around.  It's great to see so many people interested.
 
 
 
 
 
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Mar 7th, 2015, 12:33am
I realize that I'm dredging up my own thread from years ago, but now I'm interested in duplicating this bit of track in N scale...
 
I am wondering if over the years anyone has come across any more precise information on the layout of track behind these warehouses, especially that little bit at the south end served via the switchback or crossing.
 
I have the 1960 yard map from CPHA (excerpt posted by ENR3005). The southernmost warehouse with the switchback/crossing spur didn't exist at that time. I'd love to see the same map for say 1970, 1980, 1990, etc. to see how the layout changed over the years.  
 
I know the 1960 map didn't jive with the physical evidence I found several years ago, specifically the northern most switch - the physical evidence shows that switch further south, with the Malkin warehouse served by 2 spurs - one that ran into the building (after running along the back of the safeway warehouse, as shown in the 1960 map), and another running along the back as I illustrated on my map. I messed up the placement of the middle switch, I think the video stills show pretty clearly that it was behind standard furniture.  
 
I believe the 1960 map is accurate other than the placement of the northernmost switch, and of course it does not include the southernmost warehouse which I am most interested in.
 
The screen captures of the video were great, but still not really adequate to nail down how that warehouse was served.
 
The personal recollections are great, but I'm really after additional visual/data record.
 
Much appreciated,
Andrew
Posted by: ENR3005 Posted on: Mar 11th, 2015, 11:41pm
In the years since this post, I haven't collected any new photos of that area. I have labeled my whole photo collection down to exact mileposts over the year so I can make quick reference. Hopefully someone else can post some of the visual evidence you see as I would be very interested too.
 
Chris
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Sep 18th, 2015, 1:55am
Well, I didn't need to dig much to dredge out my thread again...it was on the first page! Activity on the board is definitely in a lull. Hopefully some great news will spark activity once again...hopefully.
 
 
I think I've come to a conclusion on the rough track layout behind these warehouses between Devonshire and Hereward. The switch showing in Goose5's photo (July 1985) in reply #790 in the photos thread is the Malkin Warhouse spur switch, the switch stand would have been on the other side of the track. This switch and spur was removed shortly before the video (1989) as ENR3005 stated in reply #10.
 
The switch stand showing in the image is very likely the switch located on the Standard Furniture spur which allowed access to the building in the background, the southernmost warehouse in the block. This stand can be seen again in ENR3005's reply #11 in this thread. Also, one can see the fresh ties/ballast from complete removal of Malkin's spur switch. It appears the southernmost warehouse was indeed served via a switchback with a very short tail! What a pain that must have been to switch.
 
Goose5's reply #18 in this thread appears to be precisely the case.
 
ENR3005's reply #12 shows the switch behind the Safeway warehouse which ran down the back of the Malkin warehouse, this spur does not appear on the CPR drawing. I now accept the northernmost switch/spur on the CPR drawing, as this served what is shown as a 'plaform' which later turned into the building that stands there today, with 2 loading doors. I thought that the northernmost building was served by the same spur that run along the side of the Malkin warehouse, but there would have to have been a few feet of drop in a very short distance judging by the existing grade and relative heights of the loading doors on the two buildings.
 
It seems CP got lazier with spur removals following the late 80s. The Malkin spur ties were completely removed, and the switch ties were trimmed. Such is not the case for the Standard Furniture spur (and switchback spur), or the spur that ran beside the Malkin building. The ties were left in the ground, and the switch ties are still plainly visible. This leads me to believe the northern most spur was removed prior to the late 80s.
 
ENR3005, do you have any stills from Hugh Fraser's video further north alongside the Malkin warehouse?
 
Torch, in reply #20 you stated the northernmost spur crossed the road to serve another customer. Which road did it cross? Fairview? Or Devonshire?
 
Attached is my 'final' take of how I believe the track was layed out, save for the end point of the northernmost spur.
 
I hope I haven't bored anyone, it only took me 7.5 years to satisfy myself.
 
Thanks,
Andrew
 
Posted by: Goose5 Posted on: Sep 18th, 2015, 8:21pm
Hello Andrew,
 
Subjects like these are never boring as they are about the history of the E&N. Adding to what I mentioned in a previous post I can say with certainty that my time of occasionally walking along this stretch of track in the mid 1980's to early 1990's that the only road crossings were the main track. There may have been a siding that crossed a road earlier than that as Torch had mentioned but I can't recall any evidence of seeing where one was. Therefore I think from memory that your trackplan for the area is dead on. It is interesting to note that on the 1960 plan the southernmost warehouse did not exist and then when it was built the only way to have a siding for rail service was to put in the switchback. I looked through my photos again and I did find 1 more that I had never posted that shows the dayliner partly on the bridge over Hereward Rd. and partly on the southernmost switch that leads to the switchback which is unfortunately completely overgrown. The switch stand is almost exactly even with the end of the switchback spur. The photo was taken on June 16, 1990.
 
Dave
 
1.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Sep 19th, 2015, 1:15am
Hello Dave, thanks for the confirmation!  
 
Since the CP map is from 1960, and your photo is from 1990, that warehouse only made use of the spur for 30 years max.
 
I was surprised that the Safeway warehouse had 5 car spots. That's a heck of a lot! And then to have the same spur continue into the Malkin warehouse, it must have been a real pain to switch.
 
What was the business that Malkin did? What sort of freight cars were pushed inside the building?
 
I wonder if the spur running down the side of Malkin went in when the Safeway/internal Malkin spur was removed. From the map, the doors on the older portion of the Malkin warehouse would not have been accessible if there were freight cars on the internal track. The 3 doors on the expanded Malkin warehouse were a loooong way apart, I estimated 150ft. Most of the other buildings appear to have doors spaced for 40ft box cars. I plan to go back and take pictures and measurements.
 
Hopefully Chris comes back with additional stills from the Hugh Fraser video.  
 
Andrew
Posted by: Goose5 Posted on: Sep 19th, 2015, 11:11am
Hi Andrew,
 
Malkin was the W.H. Malkin Co., a grocery wholesaler that supplied a lot of independent stores. If I am correct on my history they were bought out in the early 1970's by Kelly Douglas & Co. which later was absorbed into the Weston Food Group of companies, Canada's largest grocery retailer currently run by Galen Weston. On the map, Safeway's warehouse would actually have been Macdonald's Consolidated which was their wholesale division supplying their own stores. I believe they moved out from the Viewfield Rd. warehouse to a larger one in the late 1970's and their space was acquired by Kelly Douglas to expand their warehouse. Therefore the 2 main competing grocery wholesalers in the Victoria area were side by side for a while. They would have received almost exclusively boxcar loads from the major manufacturers (Campbells Soup, Kelloggs, etc.). Refrigerator cars are also a possibility for cold and frozen foods. I would certainly include those on a model for operating interest. Standard Furniture would be only boxcar loads coming in and out. To add interest on a model I would make the northernmost building a manufacturing company of some sort that would receive and ship boxcars but also gondola and flatcar loads as well as the odd tankcar. This results in a wide variety of cars for this area. An interesting operating possibility for a model that may have actually happened on the E&N would be for a major manufacturer to have a carload split between Malkins and Safeway resulting in a switch engine having to come out and respot the car at the other company's loading door to finish emptying it. This area can be nicely modelled on a 9 inch wide shelf as part of a larger layout with only 2 or 3 inches of the backs of each building being modelled and maybe with some selective compression (3 doors instead of 5). A local freight operator would be kept busy for quite a while during an operating session switching this mess. I am going to put this area plan in my notebook of ideas for a multideck HO layout that I am planning.  
 
Dave
Posted by: hillbank Posted on: Sep 21st, 2015, 1:03am
Andrew and Dave.
Thankyou for posting this information and pics...it is not boring at all, it is useful archive material. I find industrial history very interesting even more now with the way things change so fast.  Spent the weekend up Hill 60 and Copper Canyon exploring old rail grades and logging sites and just about every person i ran into had no idea that there were railroads in those areas at one time, and one couple i was talking to were even standing on some old ties!
keep up the good work!
Posted by: torch Posted on: Sep 23rd, 2015, 11:49pm
Hi, Andrew and all. The spur that I had mentioned came down off the end of the last warehouse spur heading west. It was a continuation of the spur. I swiped a photo and I dont remember which one of you took it, sorry, but the one level building on the left with the silver car in the driveway: that was the customer. Track crossed the road there and continued into where the silver car is. I think it was a one boxcar spot. I remember seeing the track and spur intact in the early 80s but i dont recall ever seeing a boxcar parked there.. The freight door IS still visible though and you will see this in google earth.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Sep 26th, 2015, 12:19am
Hello Torch, thanks for clarifying where that last customer was. Below is a Google image of that building taken from Devonshire looking south. It looks like the spot where the silver car is in your image (cube van in mine) is too short for a boxcar to be spotted, with perhaps 20' of space. There is however an awkwardly placed platform on the south face of the building, with the green door. This looks like a likely spot that the track could have run to. There is also another similar platform a little further to the right...perhaps about the right spacing for 2 40' boxcars to be spotted simultaneously?
 
Still waiting for you Chris.  
 
Posted by: torch Posted on: Sep 26th, 2015, 6:01am
Yes, the green door is what I meant by freight door being visible, not exactly where the vehicle was parked but was just making a general observation. The facade of the building has been altered somewhat since its rail served days but yes,that green door was definitely a rail door.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Sep 26th, 2015, 7:07pm
Hello Torch, thanks for clarifying.
 
I do wonder what the frequency of service was to all of these businesses while they were rail served, or how easy/cheap it was for a line side business to ask for a spur to be built.
 
Victoria sure was a tangle of tracks at the peak of railroading in the area.
 
Still waiting on Chris...
 
Anyone know where a copy of Hugh's video can be obtained?
 
Thanks,
Andrew
Posted by: vicguy Posted on: Jan 15th, 2016, 10:15pm
on Sep 26th, 2015, 7:07pm, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Anyone know where a copy of Hugh's video can be obtained?

 
Not sure if you've gotten Hugh's video yet, but you can reach him at 250 385-2760. He just released another dvd called E&N Railway Memories, it's like a best of video.
Posted by: MinionII Posted on: Jan 9th, 2018, 1:38am
Dredging up my thread again  
 
The answer on the northernmost spur was right under my nose all along.
 
The 1960 Victoria Yard map actually shows the northernmost spur (the one with the switch about mid-way along the back of the Malkin warehouse) continuing past the 'platform' that appears to be at the end of the spur, curving to parallel Devonshire Rd, crossing Fairview Rd, and continuing a short distance further. No Building is shown on the map, and the spur itself if barely legible past the 'platform'. You can make out the word 'spur' at the lower left of the attached image.
 
I had to share this discovery since I've been bothering y'all with this thread for so long.