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Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
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   Author  Topic: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria  (Read 2081 times)
MinionII
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Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
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« on: Mar 17th, 2008, 1:21am »
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I did a little poking around along the tracks behind the warehouses that front onto Viewfield Road. I knew some of the warehouses were once served by rail. Much to my suprise, there are still ties in the ground, some with tie plates and spikes, and two full sets of switch ties, and possible evidence of a third switch.  
 
I've sketched the track layout onto the attached Google Earth image...
 
Does anyone have an pictures of this area while the warehouses were still served by the railway?
 
Andrew


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CN7059
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #1 on: Mar 17th, 2008, 2:05am »
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I don't, unfortunately, however, I have done a great deal of poking around in that area, as I went to high school nearby. From what I understand, the trackage was removed in the 80s at some point, or possibly the early nineties. I know that the engineers of the Pacific Wilderness trains disliked that stretch because of the "art" gallery along the backs of those buildings. The people who contributed to the "art" would also contribute rocks to the train, delivered at high velocity, as well as full moons and one fingered salutes. This stretch of track is also why some hotels and cruise ship lines refused to promote PAW to their patrons. I remember watching the trains go by in June of my grade eight year, (the year they shut down). It provided a welcome relief from social studies.

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Grant Williamson, Saanich BC



MinionII
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #2 on: Mar 17th, 2008, 6:52pm »
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Does my read of the leftovers agree with your memory of the track layout?
 
I agree on the 'art' thing. Perhaps they should post the conductors in the entrances of the cars with shotguns loaded with rock salt to keep the rock throwers at bay...
 
The section of track between devonshire and lampson is in terrible shape too...I saw a section where for at least 5 ties in a row the rail wasn't even close to touching the ties. The tie plates aren't lined up under the rail either, so when the rail drops it isn't sitting on anything flat...one day there might be a derailment in that area. A lot of the joints aren't resting on the ties either. They just float in space... Once enough of the ties rot, they're going to roll a rail over.


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CN7059
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #3 on: Mar 17th, 2008, 8:11pm »
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I agree, they will eventually roll a rail. It will most likely be when one of the geeps comes down with a broken down budd car. The Budd cars themselves are so light footed that you could almost run them on two two by fours.
 
As for the track layout, what you have seems to make sense to me. I know that there were at least two sidings there at one point, and the stub end at the southern end of that stretch is necessary because of the bridge over Hereward, which is not apparent in the satellite image. Apart from that, I haven't been alive for long enough to remember when there was active service to those businesses, however I have been told that at one point there was a daily local from the yard in Esquimalt (sometimes twice daily) to spot cars at the various wholesale concerns.


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Grant Williamson, Saanich BC



Cody
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #4 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 12:01am »
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I don't know guys.  I think you're heading for "curmedgeon" territory.  I don't think the urban kids and others who work on the trackside gallery are equivalent to the crack-heads who might through rocks at trains.   If anything giving the inspired types a wall to paint might keep them off crack.  It's the moronic kids with no artistic tendencies that become the rock throwers.
 
I take my daughter train-watching there on occasion and never have a problem or feel threatened.   I even spent an evening working in that ROW/alley after the Wholesale place's carboard compactor died.  It's pretty tame if you have some street smarts.


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2008, 12:05am by Cody » Logged
CP8673
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #5 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 12:40am »
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Rode by there many times in the 80's - both on the dayliner and on freights - I don't remember there being the stub spur there, but I will defer to anyone who can positively confirm or deny.  The rest of the layout was pretty much the way you have marked it, though.

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CN7059
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #6 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 1:05am »
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on Mar 18th, 2008, 12:01am, Cody wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I don't know guys.  I think you're heading for "curmedgeon" territory.  I don't think the urban kids and others who work on the trackside gallery are equivalent to the crack-heads who might through rocks at trains.   If anything giving the inspired types a wall to paint might keep them off crack.  It's the moronic kids with no artistic tendencies that become the rock throwers.
 
I take my daughter train-watching there on occasion and never have a problem or feel threatened.   I even spent an evening working in that ROW/alley after the Wholesale place's carboard compactor died.  It's pretty tame if you have some street smarts.

 
As a person who went to the same school as most of the people who would be found along that stretch, I would say that 90% of them are no problem whatsoever, and the remaining 10% (probably less, in fact), are the ones that cause problems. The assertion that they throw rocks at the train, moon it, and flip it off came directly from crew members of the defunct PAW.


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Grant Williamson, Saanich BC



tfctrains
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #7 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 1:18am »
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on Mar 17th, 2008, 6:52pm, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Does my read of the leftovers agree with your memory of the track layout?
 
I agree on the 'art' thing. Perhaps they should post the conductors in the entrances of the cars with shotguns loaded with rock salt to keep the rock throwers at bay...
 
The section of track between devonshire and lampson is in terrible shape too...I saw a section where for at least 5 ties in a row the rail wasn't even close to touching the ties. The tie plates aren't lined up under the rail either, so when the rail drops it isn't sitting on anything flat...one day there might be a derailment in that area. A lot of the joints aren't resting on the ties either. They just float in space... Once enough of the ties rot, they're going to roll a rail over.
I think if you were to walk any section of the E.N. you find the track in similar condition, I spend a lot of time walking the track south of Courtenay, like you say the joints are floating in mid air. Rumour has it when they do the annual track inspection you will see the track speed reduced to point the Budd Car will not be able to keep to the scedule. Three months to go before it is done! We  need the track work to begin now!


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ENR3005
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
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« Reply #8 on: Apr 6th, 2008, 1:22am »
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on Mar 17th, 2008, 1:21am, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I did a little poking around along the tracks behind the warehouses that front onto Viewfield Road. I knew some of the warehouses were once served by rail. Much to my suprise, there are still ties in the ground, some with tie plates and spikes, and two full sets of switch ties, and possible evidence of a third switch.  
 
I've sketched the track layout onto the attached Google Earth image...
 
Does anyone have an pictures of this area while the warehouses were still served by the railway?
 
Andrew

 
Here is an actual CP drawing of the trackage to that area. There are four industries served by three spurs. The fourth industry on the left hand side of the drawing is not listed. Standard Furniture was the last industry served up until the mid 90s I believe when CP ripped out their switch for some reason without notice. They went bankrupt shortly afterwards.



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MinionII
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #9 on: Apr 6th, 2008, 3:31am »
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Yeah I had that map in my hand while I was poking around. The evidence doesn't jive with that map entirely. I don't recall the date of that drawing, but obviousely things could have been altered according to new requirements.

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ENR3005
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
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« Reply #10 on: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:00pm »
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on Apr 6th, 2008, 3:31am, MinionII wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Yeah I had that map in my hand while I was poking around. The evidence doesn't jive with that map entirely. I don't recall the date of that drawing, but obviousely things could have been altered according to new requirements.

 
I took a look at Hugh Fraser's E&N vid and sure enough there is a switchback in there. The vid is from 1989 and the tracks look to have been removed recently to the Safeway and Malkin Warehouse with many ties still in place. The later spur is still in place, not sure what this served perhaps someone else knows. A couple of screen grabs of what the area looked like back then and a boxcar at Standard Furniture and the later mystery spur.


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ENR3005
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
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« Reply #11 on: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:05pm »
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Standard Furniture with a Railbox. The switch back looks like it diverged from the Standard furniture spur upon further inspection of the video.  You can make out the switch tie and diverging track on the left side of image.

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« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:14pm by ENR3005 » Logged
ENR3005
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
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« Reply #12 on: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:15pm »
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Abandoned Safeway / Malkin warehouse spur and mystery spur in distance

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« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:22pm by ENR3005 » Logged
ENR3005
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #13 on: Apr 6th, 2008, 12:40pm »
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Goose also posted a pic of this spur showing two RDCs passing on page 40 of the photo section and I believe photo 18.

« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2008, 5:48pm by ENR3005 » Logged
MinionII
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #14 on: Apr 6th, 2008, 5:12pm »
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Those terrible video captures are excellent! Those are the first images I've seen of the area from when tracks were still in the ground.
 


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torch
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #15 on: Apr 6th, 2008, 7:29pm »
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it  looks like a  switchback but i thought  it  was  actually a diamond... at least i faintly recall seeing that arrangement but  could be  wrong.. the  standard furniture spur AT the loading dock was only about a one car spot so i dont se how a loco AND  a freight car would be able to clear a switchback switch to get into the mystery spur.

« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2008, 5:11am by torch » Logged
MinionII
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #16 on: Apr 7th, 2008, 3:56pm »
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The track layout I drew in my first post was a best guess based on the evidence that still exists. They must have completely removed the Malkin spur switch. There are two complete sets of swtich ties at the locations I indicated. However, I found one single piece of a tie sticking out about 18in past the other ties, which I thought could be the last fragment of evidence of a third swtich of the main. And I think it coincides with where the abandoned Malkin spur attached to the main... I'll have to check my notes and pictures when I get home.
 
I agree...the Std. Furn. spur looks a tad short to be able to service the switchback.
 
EDIT: The backside of those warehouses has changed somewhat over the years. Compare my recent google earth image to the video captures...


« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2008, 3:58pm by MinionII » Logged
ENR3005
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #17 on: Apr 7th, 2008, 9:05pm »
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I would have to agree after re-watching the video again. The spur is too short and it looks as though there are some longer ties half way through the Standard Furniture spur. I would say the switch is off the Malkin / Safeway spur and not the main as there would have had to been two sets of crossovers.

« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2008, 9:20pm by ENR3005 » Logged
Goose5
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #18 on: Apr 8th, 2008, 12:52pm »
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I have looked through my box of photos that I haven't posted yet and couldn't find any that showed the spurs or cars spotted on them. I wish now I had shot some around that area. There was the one mentioned earlier that I posted showing the dayliner photographed while standing on one of the spurs. I also have another similar one but that's it. I do remember the switchback spur from both walking along there and from watching the track while riding the dayliner, because they are quite rare around here. I remember the stub end being very short only able to hold a car or 2 at most and with it ending just before the ground dropped down to the street below, and with the switchback being quite short too, only able to fit a locomotive and 2 40 foot cars I think. The stub came off the first spur after crossing the bridge with the switchstand and points being just after the bridge deck ended. I haven't walked along there in years and most recently saw the area on a dayliner trip a couple of years ago. I remember the back of those buildings becoming totally covered in graffiti. Seeing the video captures of those spurs makes me think that if most of the sidings and spurs were still in place along the entire railroad serving active and thriving businesses, how busy the line would be. Ahhh, memories!
 
Dave


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ENR3005
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Re: Trackage between Hereward and Devonshire - Victoria
 
« Reply #19 on: Apr 9th, 2008, 12:05pm »
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Thanks for the info Dave, that is one tiny switchback. Did you ever see any cars on the spur beyond the abandoned Safeway / Malkin warehouse or perhaps know who the customer was back in the 80s / 90s? I imagine something had to be going in or out of that spur otherwise it would have been torn up.

« Last Edit: Apr 9th, 2008, 12:10pm by ENR3005 » Logged
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