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looking for store street pics
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   Author  Topic: looking for store street pics  (Read 12759 times)
craigolio1
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Posts: 117
looking for store street pics
 
« on: Oct 8th, 2007, 12:45am »
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Hey everybody.  Happy Thanks Giving.
 
I'm wondering if anyone has pics or even memories (frequency, numbers and types of loads to specific customers) of any E&N industries on Store St in Victoria.  I'm in the process of modeling that area in N scale but I need some help with track arrangements.  Especially for industries like ICG.  
 
Also, in areas where the rails left the street and entered areas like parking lots, would there be any spots where there was regular ballasted track or did they just pave it all.  An example is where the Albion yard used to be (between Store Street and Garden City Warehouses).  Before the closure of the route in '92 there was alot of area paved there for parking.  Where, I'm not sure but it looks like quite a bit of it was paved in a video I saw.  I would think that when the yard was still in use it would have been ballasted and not entirely paved, so did they do all that paving after the yard was torn out, and was it only for the purposes of parking?  As i understand it there was some rearranging of track to Garden City Warehouses at some point?  What was the purpose of this?  Same question (about ballasted track) for industries that may have had gravel or dirt surfaces like the scrap iron yard near ICG.  If anyone has any memories or hunches about this area I would sure like to hear it.  Anything helps.
 
I have gone through the threads in this forum and have found some good pics and also a map drawn that shows customers and track arrangements nut as always, I'm hungry for more.
 
I'm modeling the 80s but info from any time period would be helpful.
 
Thanks in advance, Craig


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FSD8014
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #1 on: Oct 8th, 2007, 10:35pm »
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If you can, Craig, try to hunt down the video or DVD titled "Last Runs on Vancouver Island". One of the four topics is the store street trackage near the end of operations and video of SW-8 6701 (?) is shown switching there.
If none of your buddies has it, try your local hobby shop.
 
Of course, it would be different just having two tone green MLWs pulling it, wouldn't it?


« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2007, 10:37pm by FSD8014 » Logged
craigolio1
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Posts: 117
Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #2 on: Oct 11th, 2007, 9:07pm »
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Thanks alot.  i have that video and indeed it was helpful.  I JUST NEED MORE!  
 
In my world, it would have been 1986/87 during the BCR take over.  My layout will feature mostly BCR locos with, due to power shortages,  a few left overs from CP mainly in the form of GP9s and an SW-9.  A leased SW-900 from BC Hydro Rail (tight curves on Store St would have prevented most of BCR's locos from working that area and the two S-13s were working in North Vancouver at the time) will handle switching on Store St.  (the lease lasting until I can kitbash some S-13s anyway).
 
A C-420/slug will handle switching in Esquimalt with an RS-18/slug taking care of Wellcox.  Courtney, Port Alberni, and points in between would be taken care of by the road units.
 
Other things I plan that never happened:
 
At the time BCR was really on the ball when it came to running a successful passenger operation and so the two RDCs would be evicted in favor of a new Malahat that would consist of an FA2 (BCR had one for about a week before it blew up) pulling a baggage/power car, a dome car and two coaches.  It would be painted in an attractive green and stainless livery similar to the BCR RDCs of the day and would be very popular with cyclists who could load their bikes into the baggage car for the trip (daily in the summer) to the summit.  Commuter service would be a feature as well with two BCR RDCs running from somewhere to Victoria.    With rail upgrades on the system, 3716 would run summer excursions when not filling in for 2860 on the mainland.  
 
 
BCR would have had plans to revive old customers and seek new ones too so one train a day would be off to Port Alberni and back, another would make the trip to courtney and back, in addition to the Victoria turn and any extras that might be required to handle extra loads.  In my world logs would still be coming from Lake Cowichan and the Nanaimo Lakes areas so BCR would have had a fleet of spine cars to handle the loads.  
 
Poles would come from the north on skeleton cars with idlers, and there would be tanks, boxcars and bulkheads a plenty bringing loads to, and finished lumber from, several productive mills on the line.
 
The Russel Roundhouse would need major upgrades as, while Wellcox would continue to service most of the diesel fleet, a home would still be needed for the locos assigned to Store St, the FA, 3716 and the small fleet of passenger equipment.  Wash racks would be installed, as well as facilities created for sanding, watering, and fueling the locos.  Likely from trucks or hoppers/tanks.
 
Barge service would need to be increased from 1 to 3 days a week with two originating in North Van carrying BCR and CN interchange traffic (CN no longer having to ship loads over CP would help to prolong the life of they're service in Victoria).  The other would come from CP's slip for any CPR interchange traffic since one would expect many of the suppliers of traffic on the island would remain the same and would there for still come from the mainland VIA CP.  If I were CP I would have made a non competition clause in the contract stating that BCR couldn't try to steal my customers that serve the island for at least a couple of years.  
 
Kind of a strange fantasy I guess but lets face it, we're big kids playing with trains right?  
 
If anyone cares to correct my inaccuracies or add to the fun feel free.  It'll make my operations more interesting.  For now, I'm almost done laying the rails on Store St and I need to find out what all of the buildings look like and what the customers did.
 
Craig
 
 
 
 
 


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torch
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #3 on: Oct 11th, 2007, 10:27pm »
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very interested in seeing some photos of the progress of your layout.. can you post some perhaps? I know  a lot of modellers dont like to post unfinished scenes but hey, it could be educational and a conversation piece for this board. I like to see the store street section. I gre up around the store street operations in the 70s and 80s so if you have any more questions,  ask away.

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craigolio1
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Posts: 117
Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #4 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 6:24pm »
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If there is a an N scale model of it then I bet they would have kept it running

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ENR3005
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Re: looking for store street pics
  Store_Stree.jpg - 359524 Bytes
« Reply #5 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 8:23pm »
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on Oct 8th, 2007, 12:45am, craigolio wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hey everybody.  Happy Thanks Giving.
 
I'm wondering if anyone has pics or even memories (frequency, numbers and types of loads to specific customers) of any E&N industries on Store St in Victoria.  I'm in the process of modeling that area in N scale but I need some help with track arrangements.  Especially for industries like ICG.  
 
Also, in areas where the rails left the street and entered areas like parking lots, would there be any spots where there was regular ballasted track or did they just pave it all.  An example is where the Albion yard used to be (between Store Street and Garden City Warehouses).  Before the closure of the route in '92 there was alot of area paved there for parking.  Where, I'm not sure but it looks like quite a bit of it was paved in a video I saw.  I would think that when the yard was still in use it would have been ballasted and not entirely paved, so did they do all that paving after the yard was torn out, and was it only for the purposes of parking?  As i understand it there was some rearranging of track to Garden City Warehouses at some point?  What was the purpose of this?  Same question (about ballasted track) for industries that may have had gravel or dirt surfaces like the scrap iron yard near ICG.  If anyone has any memories or hunches about this area I would sure like to hear it.  Anything helps.
 
I have gone through the threads in this forum and have found some good pics and also a map drawn that shows customers and track arrangements nut as always, I'm hungry for more.
 
I'm modeling the 80s but info from any time period would be helpful.
 
Thanks in advance, Craig

 
I have attached a sample pick from Waite Air Photos showing the Store street trackage as it existed in 1991. All of the track to Garden City was paved or in concrete. Even the tracks that ended at Garden City were paved although they had weeds growing out of them. Vicguy had some great shots of this industry a couple of years ago. The trackage which went through the parking lot on the way to Garden City seemed to be torn up frequently. Not sure if this was a result of trackage problems or urban renewal of the surrounding buildings. The Store Street video has a shot or two of the parking lot closed off with barriers which the crew move in order to conclude their switching.  
 
The remainder of the track that went down Store street to the ICG site was paved until reaching the industrial site at the end of the road and then the tracks were in sand, gravel and weeds for the most part. The tracks even went through a cut in the industrial site which appears quite a bit higher than any rail equipment. ICG had two unloading tracks as you can see in the aerial photo with LPG cars on both sides of the unloading rack.  
 
Carloadings and frequency of service varied. Both industries seemed to be switched two to three times a week. The spur at Garden City could hold two 40 foot cars and as many as four LPG cars could be spotted at the ICG site. It was not uncommon for Garden City to have two cars alothough most of the time it appeared to be one car. There never seemed to be more than three LPG cars being unloaded at anytime at ICG. However someone could verify if there was ever more than three spotted.  
 
Good luck with your layout!
 
Chris
 



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« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2007, 8:35pm by ENR3005 » Logged
torch
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #6 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 9:30pm »
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I used to work in a warehouse right near garden city and watched crews switch around 7 am almost every morning. this was around 89- 90  when only garden city and inercity gas  were customers. Garden city could actually recieve 2 larger 50 foot boxcars and possibly a 40 footer additionally. Mostly I would see two 50 footers in there. On train frequency  even during the mid 80s   store street and surrounding environs would see up to two switches daily. Some of the old times would concur with this and ive witnessed it myself. there were many customers down around store street still during the erly to mid 80s. Albion yard often had covered hoppers and boxcars on the various stub spurs being unloaded and switching involved a lot of moves.. especially since there was no run around track on store street so the loco would always arrive pushing the  cars   with the  exception of the one oppisite facing switch which lead to the meat packer warehouse. when the switcher came down store with more than three lpg tanks AND boxcars  it was a pretty long looking train considering the close quarters. there was a somewhat notable grade up from where the track entered store street near the via station and  a down grade in front of the kelly douglas warehouse and capitol iron. Brakemen rode the ladders on the frieght cars leading down store street. It  was always interesting to watch traffic dodge the train and the brakemen pop open the recessed turnout handthrows.

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craigolio1
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Posts: 117
Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #7 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 10:02pm »
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I will certainly post some photos when I have something I can photograph. For now where I am is that I have essentially made "snap track" of sorts by laying Proto 87 Stores girder rail (roughly code 30), in configurations matching those on Store St, on pieces of .020" styrene measure either 1ft x1 ft or 1ft x 2ft.  These pieces will be laid end to end and joined together.  The next step is to custom build all of the frogs for turnouts and then build up the "pavement" around the rails with another layer of .020" styrene.  Then I will mount them on my bench work.  
 
Thanks for all of the info.  I thought there was a grade because the spur that runs along side the rd looks like it's at a higher elevation than Store St hence Store St would be going downhill at that point.  This is something I will certainly include in my model.  Small changes in terain go along way.
 
Also that arial photo is awesome.  That will really help me layout the industries.  I'm thinking that I will put a lumber/building materials supplier on the former Albion Yard site since it's way more interesting than a parking lot and it will be a reason to run a few extra loads.    
 
I was wondering about a poss run around.  I had wondered if they had run one train with loads in front and another with loads behind to solve this problem.  I didn't know they were allowed to run loads on both ends of the loco.  This will make for interesting switching.
 
Please keep it coming, this is all great stuff.
 
Craig
 
PS,  "Hello, my name is Craig and I have a problem.  I like Store St. "  
 
   "Hi, Craig..."


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torch
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #8 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 12:57am »
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well shoot,craig.. you dont HAVE to have albion yard be  a  parking lot if you are modelling the 80s  as you mentioned because in the 80s  it  actually WAS a yard    with structures, spurs , covered loading bay etc... take another look at the ross pugsley fotos at the top of the forum.. even tho those were taken in the 60s, the yard was still a yard, not  a  parking lot  in the 80s. lots of opportunity for some interesting modelling.  there was even a  fruit/produce warehouse ont he  edge of the yard on the store street side that used rail service on two parallel tracks   not to mention in the 80s  there was also  a  switchback that lead to behind capitol iron that ended in two stub tracks. they took gons for  scrap down there.

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bcrailfan
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #9 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 1:57am »
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Last time I was down on the waterfront below Capitol Iron there were still rails visible in the pavement.  Not sure if this is still the case.  By the looks of things from the Air Photo the area would have had to have been switched via the ICG propane spur (also due to presence of steep grades and tight curves there appears to be no other route down to the waterfront).  But, I'm just guessing here so can anybody please confirm or deny my speculation?
 
Ben


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CPRail4744
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #10 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 2:51am »
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"Hi, Craig."
 
'Hi, Group.  My name is Matt and I also have a problem.  This is why I am attending SSA - Store-Streeters Anonymous."
 
My addiction began when I was about 5 or 6 years old.  Actually I am a victim of my circumstances.  My parents are responsible.  They were the ones that drove the family VW van downtown everyonce in a while and right past the Albion Yards and spur tracks, and yes, Torch, I even remember the diamond crossing for the spur that went the other way.  I remember seeing cars in the weeds by the freight sheds, and being very young, thinking, "Why would they put railway cars on the ground" not being able to see the tracks below the platforms.  I think my addiction grew because I was never given the opportunity to satisfy my lust for the railway activity by just walking around and looking at things, instead being rushed across the street with the cool imbedded tracks into the Capital Iron store, or driving by a tantalizing huge warehouse door seeing hopper cars INSIDE BUILDINGS! and not stopping.  Yeah, I still have the addiction,  I can't fight it.  I have given over to it.  It invades my dreams.  I have this recurring dream of Victoria B.C. having two double track mainlines, one for CN, and the other CP, and tons of switching activity, every where you look there is at least three switchers operating, and mainline freights every 20 minutes...
 
I digress...
 
In the other thread was dicussed the faint and ethereal idea of relaying track on Store Street and seeing traffic to the cement plant again.  I think the only problem (forget the red tape and civic officials) trains would have getting through would be the crowds of avid railfans from all over the world choking the street ogling and snapping pictures.
 


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Matt Arnott, Kamloops, B.C.

"I would prefer to see it shipped by train..."
craigolio1
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Posts: 117
Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #11 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 5:11am »
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Hello folks.  I knew about the switch back to the scrap metal yard.  Somewhere on this group there is an excellent diagram of the trackage as it was and a legend showing where the customers were.  I thought the scrap metal yard was it's own thing but was it's purpose to feed Capital Iron?
 
Where was the cement plant?
 
Also nice to know the Albion yard was still there.  I could have some fun with that.  Does anyone know how the hoppers were unloaded?  Would it have been been some kind of operation where they transfered right to trucks or was there some businesses in there that needed hoppers?
 
Craig


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Re: looking for store street pics
  Store_St_Yard_Pt.1_of_2_update.jpg - 71462 Bytes
« Reply #12 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 6:24am »
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Oh yeah, that was exactly 3 years ago when I did up a drawing showing the track layout and customer list along Store Street.  It was an updated and improved version someone had done even earlier.  I was still pretty new here and with the help of everyone else here it took a few revisions to get it to what we thought was correct.  Much later someone posted a beautiful ariel photograph and track map which exposed a couple of errors.
 
The thread with the pic and map is here:
 
http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=Vancouver;action=display;num=1083661393;start=80


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Vancouver/Store_St_Yard_Pt.1_of_2_update.jpg
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CLC Fan

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Re: looking for store street pics
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 6:27am »
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Last part:

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Vancouver/Store_St_Yard_Pt.2_of_2.jpg
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farronhill
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #14 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 1:43pm »
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on Oct 13th, 2007, 5:11am, craigolio wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hello folks.  I knew about the switch back to the scrap metal yard.  Somewhere on this group there is an excellent diagram of the trackage as it was and a legend showing where the customers were.  I thought the scrap metal yard was it's own thing but was it's purpose to feed Capital Iron?
 
>>snipped<<
 
Craig

Does anyone have photographic or other evidence for the switchback down to Capital Iron?
 
I've looked at some different aerial photographs over the years and not only does that switchback not show, there isn't even a place for it to have gone. In some pictures the area in question is partly water. Curious.
 
The presence of rail down behind Capital Iron doesn't close the case - it was fairly common for scrap operations to have rail mounted cranes along their wharves, not necessarily connected to any railroad network.  
 
Capital Iron had an associated scrap operation at Ogden Point where we do have photos showing such a crane in use, although in that case the rails WERE connected to the CNR tracks.
 
The sketch map posted has at least one other error in that it shows the E&N freight shed in the wrong place. The air photos show it across Store Street and at an angle beside the two tracks in the Albion yard.
 
Hopefully more photos or legal plans will come to light and help refine our understanding of what was there.


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ENR3005
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Re: looking for store street pics
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 2:10pm »
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Here is part of an actual CP drawing of Store Street. The copy I have dosen't quite show the yard tracks and tracks around Capital Iron. I have been trying to source a better drawing for a couple of years now but have had no luck.


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torch
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #16 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 7:58pm »
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the covered shed  at  "j"  in the  diagram is  correct. it  wasnt a real shed  but  an open air  platform and track covered roof,really.   The actual cp shed is not shown in the  diagram.

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preservedsteambc
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #17 on: Oct 13th, 2007, 10:10pm »
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I was looking at CLC Fan's map and was wondering, which building on Pembroke was the BC Electric's Carbarn? Was it the Sports Traders building? I know if faces Discovery Street, but was it the carbarn on the other end facing Pembroke or was it a different building? Does anyone have a photo of it?
 
I still remember the last few years of railway operation on Store Street. I thought it was neat seeing a train heading down the street or in the middle of Capital Iron's parking lot.
 
I also remember being in Capital Iron one day shopping with my parents. This was sometime in the mid 80s. I looked out the window towards the water and noticed a trolley in storage there, behind the Capital Iron building. I can't remember which one it was. Possibly the #400 that went to the now defunct transportation museum in Cloverdale and then to Nelson. It would be nice to see that one back on the island.


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Roman
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torch
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #18 on: Oct 14th, 2007, 3:45am »
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its sports traders.

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CPRail4744
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Re: looking for store street pics
 
« Reply #19 on: Oct 14th, 2007, 4:10am »
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Has anyone confirmed yet whether the rails went up Chatham St. (I think its Chatham) and into the huge corrugated side wall/door on the Bay Building?
 
My childhood memory is foggy, but I am sure I saw a hopper/gondola type car INSIDE a building when driving by (looking in the big open door) -  probably the Brewery?


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Matt Arnott, Kamloops, B.C.

"I would prefer to see it shipped by train..."
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