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Rumours & Speculation & Rants
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   Author  Topic: Rumours & Speculation & Rants  (Read 21295 times)
wx732
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #940 on: Mar 12th, 2013, 11:00pm »
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George,
 
The benefit of Port Alberni is that it is a very sheltered deepwater port, which happens to be around a day closer to vancouver without being a day sailing closer...if you get what I mean.  (the ships port-port distance would be around a day shorter than going around to Vancouver, because they don't have to deal with the Vessel Management System and entering/exiting through the straits of JdF or Johnston. )  The container distance would be longer in time than going to Vancouver or Seattle, but that may even out a lot based on the transport time, and the amount of time it takes to get trains together from PA on the mainland.  (in other words, for a container port, it may well be a wash).  As regards coal traffic, it is all to depend as they say at work.  If the cost was low enough to trans ship the coal to PA vice loading out in Roberts Bank then they may look at it as a future way ahead.  The current plans are to trans ship in the Fraser to barge, then to Texicana Island for xshipment to ocean going.  Loading out on a rail car barge may make about as much sense...which would mean a LOT of traffic back and forth.
 
James


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chrisale
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #941 on: Mar 12th, 2013, 11:55pm »
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on Mar 12th, 2013, 9:23pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Looking at a contour map, the lake level tunnel length can be down in the four mile to slightly over range.  The real benefit of the lake level tunnel comes if you can rebuild the east approch to get the grade down.  
 
I would appreciate remaining invisible when you raise this issue in a public meeting.  
 
When I looked at a map of this whole picture my real surprise was to see how far Port Alberni is from the ocean.  the inlet looks to be about 40 miles long.  I would think that would be a major negative to it becoming a much of a port.  Maybe there should be a look whether there are other lilkely port sites.  It would not be unknown for an industry like the mine to play two or more potential sites for a facility, be it a port, a factory, or whatever, against each other in order to get the best deal they can out of it.  
 

 
No worries on mentioning names. lol.  Just happy you made the point you did.
 
4 miles still seems mighty long... but if it meant major improvements to the grade profile and thus big savings in cost, who knows.
 
The inlet is long but Port Alberni is the 3rd closest port to Asia south of Alaska.  And more importantly because of the congestion at Vancouver and Seattle, Port Alberni is a full day closer than Vancouver, Seattle or anywhere else.    So while it's not going to be a container shipment spot, it certainly has advantages, especially to exporters originating from the Island like the Raven Coal mine.
 
The Raven mine has identified Port Alberni, and specifically the head of the Harbour as its export point.  They certainly could change that, but at this point it would require a full redo of their Application to the Environmental Assessment, so it's very unlikely.
 
THe biggest problem with Port Alberni is simply a lack of land and it's narrowness.  The inlet is a fjord.  Steep sides, not much flat land near the water, and narrow.  Container ships are out of the question within the harbour.  There just isn't enough room for more than one and it would monopolize the whole deal plus there is no land to house a bunch of containers.  
 
It's much better suited to storage sheds full of bulk products or manufacturerd good onto Panamax and Capesize bulk carriers.


« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2013, 12:08am by chrisale » Logged

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jointbar
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #942 on: Mar 13th, 2013, 3:35am »
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Any ideas as to the cost of a tunnel ? I realize  there is a lot of factors in that question. But would there be enough saved to justify the cost ? Is the grade too steep for coal with extra engines.
Bill B


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chrisale
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #943 on: Mar 13th, 2013, 12:13pm »
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on Mar 13th, 2013, 3:35am, jointbar wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Any ideas as to the cost of a tunnel ? I realize  there is a lot of factors in that question. But would there be enough saved to justify the cost ? Is the grade too steep for coal with extra engines.
Bill B

 
Unfortunately they haven't published a detailed breakdown of costs, but the most recent and local example would be the talk of a new 12km bored tunnel for skytrain (rail rapid transit) in Vancouver serving the Broadway/UBC corridor.
 
Their capital cost for that is $3Billion which works out to $250 Million per km.  But that's going to include multiple stations and far more complex workings than a relatively simply tunnel through the Alberni summit.  So I don't know how useful that information is.  I'll keep my eye out for more a more detailed breakdown of that project to figure out what the basic tunnel boring cost is.


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Chris_C
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #944 on: Mar 13th, 2013, 12:34pm »
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It is deffinitly possible to run over the existing grade, it isnt actually that steep. The old BC Rail line North out of Squamish is 2.2 for ~20 miles if i remember correctly
 
MP 0 - 15 - Max grade is 1.0%, average is about 0.5%
MP 15-20.3 - Max grade is 1.5%,  Average is about 1.4%
MP 20.3 - 21 - Grade is ~2.2%
MP 21 - 38 Max Grade is 1.5% , Average is about 1.3 - 1.4%
 


« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2013, 12:36pm by Chris_C » Logged
chrisale
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #945 on: Mar 13th, 2013, 1:31pm »
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on Mar 13th, 2013, 12:34pm, Chris_C wrote:       (Click here for original message)
It is deffinitly possible to run over the existing grade, it isnt actually that steep. The old BC Rail line North out of Squamish is 2.2 for ~20 miles if i remember correctly
 
MP 0 - 15 - Max grade is 1.0%, average is about 0.5%
MP 15-20.3 - Max grade is 1.5%,  Average is about 1.4%
MP 20.3 - 21 - Grade is ~2.2%
MP 21 - 38 Max Grade is 1.5% , Average is about 1.3 - 1.4%
 

 
Ya, the only concern I've heard is that the AC4400 they would want to use would have a bit of an issue on some of the curves but that they would likely straighten a couple of them out.


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Pyronova

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #946 on: Mar 13th, 2013, 1:46pm »
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on Mar 13th, 2013, 1:31pm, chrisale wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Ya, the only concern I've heard is that the AC4400 they would want to use would have a bit of an issue on some of the curves but that they would likely straighten a couple of them out.

There was a post somewhere here that did the math for HP over axles with projected tonnage on the Port sub..... It basically showed lesser HP locos and 4axled trucks were all that were required.
Could someone find the link or do the math again?


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Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #947 on: Mar 14th, 2013, 3:50am »
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Someplace else on this site there was another similar tunnel postulation and IIRC the costs were between 80 to 100 million a mile. I find it incredulous that some here would put forth an idea of tunneling to improve grade when we don't have the wherewithal to reopen the line.  
 
The existing line could handle the freight just spiffy the way it is and actually return a profit for the railroad. Adding in the cost of the tunnel that railroad would never get another dime.  
 
BTW Chris highway four exists right now as you know from your daily use so why are you pretending otherwise. If we are going to spend 80 to 100 million I'd rather, along with most people in the valley and out to the coast in all directions, the government were to build us a new highway.  
 
The original new highway rallies were pre 1988 according to the archives so I think that preempts your claim about it all being about Raven Coal. raven will benefit from the new highway but so will the 10,000 other daily users in and out of Port Alberni and points west.  
 


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Never known for Political Correctness
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Port Alberni or Thereabouts.
chrisale
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #948 on: Mar 14th, 2013, 9:51am »
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on Mar 14th, 2013, 3:50am, Garrett_Owner wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Someplace else on this site there was another similar tunnel postulation and IIRC the costs were between 80 to 100 million a mile. I find it incredulous that some here would put forth an idea of tunneling to improve grade when we don't have the wherewithal to reopen the line.  
 
The existing line could handle the freight just spiffy the way it is and actually return a profit for the railroad. Adding in the cost of the tunnel that railroad would never get another dime.  
 
BTW Chris highway four exists right now as you know from your daily use so why are you pretending otherwise. If we are going to spend 80 to 100 million I'd rather, along with most people in the valley and out to the coast in all directions, the government were to build us a new highway.  
 
The original new highway rallies were pre 1988 according to the archives so I think that preempts your claim about it all being about Raven Coal. raven will benefit from the new highway but so will the 10,000 other daily users in and out of Port Alberni and points west.  
 

 
That's the cost for the whole line... and doesn't include what is now committed to be done on the mainline.
 
The cost on the Alberni sub should be something less than $35 Million including bridges... maybe bump that up to $40 Million to include further strengthening work on the bridges to Buckley Bay the spur, and desired track additions in the Harbour.
 
Far less than the $100 Million now on the table for the highway proposals.
 
What's more, there is the distinct possibility that SVI would pitch in a very significant amount of that $40 Million... so what would the Province actually pay?  $30 Million?  $20 Million?  Maybe even nothing.  


« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2013, 10:09am by chrisale » Logged

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Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #949 on: Mar 14th, 2013, 12:48pm »
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Chris, reading comprehension time. I was quoting the cost of the tunnel you  are proposing. I know the other costs as quoted. I find it funny that you and your cohort nudge nudge wink wink are still going on about tunnels.

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Port Alberni or Thereabouts.
railpuck
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #950 on: Mar 14th, 2013, 9:52pm »
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A tunnel is a waste of time and money, just rebuild the railway, new rail and ties and ballast and trestles.
Cheaper than building a tunnel, and the grades and curves are not that bad.


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chrisale
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #951 on: Mar 14th, 2013, 10:53pm »
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on Mar 14th, 2013, 12:48pm, Garrett_Owner wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Chris, reading comprehension time. I was quoting the cost of the tunnel you  are proposing. I know the other costs as quoted. I find it funny that you and your cohort nudge nudge wink wink are still going on about tunnels.

 
Sorry, no numbers were ever given for the tunnel so I assumed you were just talking about the regular full repairs referred in another thread.
 
I agree Tunnel isn't worth the money... it's just a thought.


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capt
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #952 on: May 1st, 2013, 12:18am »
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Lust read in the local courtney paper, that  the train station is getting a new roof and a new deck .it was mentioned that the rotary club is helping out with the finances even though the ICF owns the property.
Here's hoping i will see the budd and the rest of the train up north soon lol


« Last Edit: May 1st, 2013, 12:28am by capt » Logged
CPRail4744
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #953 on: May 1st, 2013, 2:29am »
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Good news on the "COURTENAY" roof.    

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Matt Arnott, Kamloops, B.C.

"I would prefer to see it shipped by train..."
Gyralite
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #954 on: May 1st, 2013, 3:00am »
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The TAXPAYERS own the property the icf manages(haha) the property!

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vanislrailway
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #955 on: Sep 12th, 2013, 2:42am »
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I do not know where to post this so I figured this was a good spot to make some people laugh. I love this poster. http://www.pinterest.com/pin/72620612714657955/ [url][/url]

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I am interested in learning and preserving the history of the railway on Vancouver Island. With a lot of the History taken away we must work hard to insure our kids have the ability to watch and ride the rails we have left and enjoy seeing so much.
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