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Rumours & Speculation & Rants
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   Author  Topic: Rumours & Speculation & Rants  (Read 21278 times)
bigcreekcowboy
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #880 on: Feb 12th, 2013, 7:12pm »
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As a rail fan I have not come across a forum as full of great information as this one. Before coming on here I was aware that there was a short stretch of track on the island that had something to do with CP rail. I have learnt so much about the once extensive logging and mining railways that existed. I have drooled over the pictures on the Store street trackage and marveled over the diverse CN lines. But sadly some seem bent on driving people away and causing problems for no particular good reason. In the latest case, It appears some people have done some good work trying to save lives with operation lifesaver. And once again a troll attacks them for it. I know some get twisted pleasure out of name calling and causing problems. So my plea will not stop anything. But for the good of the E&N railway and any future it might have, and the valuable information contained in the web forum. Respect other people and their beliefs. Because everyone will leave this forum and it too will be nothing but history.

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jointbar
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #881 on: Feb 13th, 2013, 6:10pm »
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As a long time railroader, historian I too thought the thread about Operation Lifesaver was well worth a post . Whenever someone or group can promote Rail Safety to the public it's a good thing . What I could not believe is the attack of that thread . Hopefully the group that spent the day with the public will keep up the good work.
 
Bill B


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Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #882 on: Feb 14th, 2013, 5:01pm »
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Bill,
 
Please rest assured that they will attend any function that they can garner an invitation to. Back east we could get CPR and ACR to either send employees or if not possible they would show up themselves for any rail oriented show.  
 
One year our local model railroad club was surprised when the then president of the ACR and a couple of office executives manned the Operation Lifesaver event at our annual show. After it was all over and everyone was at supper at a local restaurant he told us about how much fun they had interacting with the kids and watching our trains run.  
 
You would think, just in terms of brownie points, and being they are looking for further municipal funding, that at least one member of this august ICF group would deem such events worthy to attend representing themselves.


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RailWatchDog
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Re: Freight Services vs Via Rail
 
« Reply #883 on: Feb 17th, 2013, 2:37am »
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We all know here how the ICF wants Via Rail back to the Island so that they can get the 1.2 million dollar subsidy, but my question is, why have the ICF and SVI not focused more heavily on freight service and market the line to get more business.
You cannot rely on passenger service itself, and freight for any railway is the winning solution.


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Gyralite
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #884 on: Feb 17th, 2013, 3:12am »
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I imagine SRVI is waiting till the funding is in place before trying to get new customers.
 
Not worth going to all the effort for customers you can't reach right now due to track conditions.


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wx732
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #885 on: Feb 17th, 2013, 9:55am »
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It is my understanding that the portions of the Victoria Sub South of Duncan and North of Parksville are 10 MPH only, not prohibited traffic- so, what would stop SRVI picking up new customers _if it makes some sort of sense to do so ?_  Although it may take 2 crews to get a train to/from Courtney, if the demand was there I cannot see why the railway would not do so.  Loosing a little money in the short term by running the 2nd crew while hedging bets as to the future would make sense to me.  (because as the track is repaired, then the line speed goes up, and your 2nd crew costs become the area to profit from, at $500 or so per trip)
 
That would require that SRVI feel that ICF actually will come up with the cash for the repairs...which may be the stumbling block.
 
James


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95XXX
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #886 on: Feb 17th, 2013, 10:55am »
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I would think that when the long term agreement with the ICF (25 yrs) is in place, we will start seeing new frieght business. Until then they are year to year.
SVI only has one frieght crew. To justify another crew at 60k per crewmember per year, you would need substantial new business.


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Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #887 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 10:46pm »
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You guys and girls all know I think the ICF is barking up the wrong tree chasing VIA like a teenager on a skirt hunt. If the rumours we hear about VIA wanting totally off the Island and not giving ICF the commitment required for funding release what then? Will it be too late to pursue the freight angle and try opening the Port Sub to get trains moving? The freight traffic could exist and keep the railroad running and I really think all the assurances Mr Bruce has given the media seem to be not holding water.  
 
I really think the ICF should be taking a good look in a mirror and recognizing their moves have caused the railroad to be in jeopardy and maybe start to think about submitting letters of resignation. Of course if VIA does recommit then all bets are off.  


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railman-vi
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #888 on: Feb 23rd, 2013, 4:10am »
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on Feb 22nd, 2013, 10:46pm, Garrett_Owner wrote:       (Click here for original message)
You guys and girls all know I think the ICF is barking up the wrong tree chasing VIA like a teenager on a skirt hunt. If the rumours we hear about VIA wanting totally off the Island and not giving ICF the commitment required for funding release what then? Will it be too late to pursue the freight angle and try opening the Port Sub to get trains moving? The freight traffic could exist and keep the railroad running and I really think all the assurances Mr Bruce has given the media seem to be not holding water.  
 
I really think the ICF should be taking a good look in a mirror and recognizing their moves have caused the railroad to be in jeopardy and maybe start to think about submitting letters of resignation. Of course if VIA does recommit then all bets are off.  

 
That is a good question.  I don't think it ends well.  I have heard from good contacts that the ICF got little out of their recent meeting with VIA.  It seems just as you said your contact told you, that VIA will not commit to anything until the repairs have been made and the railway meets safety standards and VIA will not operate out of Nanaimo as they cannot afford to fund the additional costs, leaving the ICF and SVI to come up with the funds to do it.  VIA returning will also be dependent on their budget status at the time the railway is finished being repaired from what I was told.  Assuming of course the railway ever does get repaired.    


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Pyronova

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #889 on: Feb 23rd, 2013, 4:18pm »
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on Feb 23rd, 2013, 4:10am, railman-vi wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
That is a good question.  I don't think it ends well.  I have heard from good contacts that the ICF got little out of their recent meeting with VIA.  It seems just as you said your contact told you, that VIA will not commit to anything until the repairs have been made and the railway meets safety standards and VIA will not operate out of Nanaimo as they cannot afford to fund the additional costs, leaving the ICF and SVI to come up with the funds to do it.  VIA returning will also be dependent on their budget status at the time the railway is finished being repaired from what I was told.  Assuming of course the railway ever does get repaired.    

 
Chicken and the Egg scenario?


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wiggle_wagon

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #890 on: Feb 24th, 2013, 10:16pm »
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on Feb 22nd, 2013, 10:46pm, Garrett_Owner wrote:       (Click here for original message)
You guys and girls all know I think the ICF is barking up the wrong tree chasing VIA like a teenager on a skirt hunt. If the rumours we hear about VIA wanting totally off the Island and not giving ICF the commitment required for funding release what then? Will it be too late to pursue the freight angle and try opening the Port Sub to get trains moving? The freight traffic could exist and keep the railroad running and I really think all the assurances Mr Bruce has given the media seem to be not holding water.  
 
I really think the ICF should be taking a good look in a mirror and recognizing their moves have caused the railroad to be in jeopardy and maybe start to think about submitting letters of resignation. Of course if VIA does recommit then all bets are off.  

 
I've had much the same feeling, Dennis. Many have gotten behind the ICF but its all based on getting the Budd cars going here again, even the government money is predicated on that. But, what happens if VIA decides NOT to come back, or worse, not to commit until track repairs are finished.  
Where are we then?  
Its a simple catch 22 that leaves much of the former E&N pretty much dead.
 
I'm sure the pro-ICF people on here are bristling at the suggestion, but its a definite possibility.  
Really, we've seen commitments made at the federal and provincial governmental levels that hinge on VIA's return but what if they play hardball with us? Then the federal and provincial grants don't happen. The line can't be fully repaired and parts will eventually die.
 
The line has the potential to be a mover of people and goods again if it can be saved, but have we been too focused on VIA?


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Polar
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #891 on: Feb 25th, 2013, 9:29am »
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Not a huge fan of the ICF either.  Curious though as to what else could have been done to save the E&N.  If your answer is freight, sure that would help.  But how do we get the money to upgrade the track for freight?  Freight companies will not commit until the track is up to snuff either.  Another chicken and the egg.

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Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #892 on: Feb 25th, 2013, 12:11pm »
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on Feb 25th, 2013, 9:29am, Polar wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Not a huge fan of the ICF either.  Curious though as to what else could have been done to save the E&N.  If your answer is freight, sure that would help.  But how do we get the money to upgrade the track for freight?  Freight companies will not commit until the track is up to snuff either.  Another chicken and the egg.  
I do not think that the Raven Coal Project would care one way about either chickens or eggs. The advocates of rail do think the line could be opened between Port Alberni and Mud Bay for a far greater return with the same 20 +/- million that will be spent getting the line VIA ready. With the line useable between these two points a lot of freight could be hauled for real profit.  
 
Of course the real profit may be just smoke and mirrors though as the movers and shakers at ICF seem to think otherwise.  
 
My whole opposition to the VIA scheme is that it is totally predicated on government money, money to repair the line, money to get the cars repaired and ongoing money to keep the system in operation. There ar not enough people on the Island for the E & N to ever become a 'people mover' as some so whole heartily claim, at least not in their lifetimes, being they are all so much younger and still in the know everything stage of life.  
 
Having a system in operation at the total largess of our senior government could be a real bone of contention over the coming years. There are costs and much more pressing issues than playing trains on Vancouver Island that will be continuously catching the eye of whoever is in power in Ottawa and VIA Vancouver Island would be one of the first frills cut in a no frills budget.  
 
If you look around in reality mode you will see more and more fluff and flutter getting axed federally, provincially and in most cases locally, Port Alberni exempted.  


« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2013, 12:12pm by Dennis Dalla-Vicenza » Logged

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Polar
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #893 on: Feb 25th, 2013, 6:04pm »
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on Feb 25th, 2013, 12:11pm, Garrett_Owner wrote:       (Click here for original message)

I do not think that the Raven Coal Project would care one way about either chickens or eggs. The advocates of rail do think the line could be opened between Port Alberni and Mud Bay for a far greater return with the same 20 +/- million that will be spent getting the line VIA ready.

 
I don't think the 20 +/- million would have been granted for freight.  Government's give money to projects like this to gain voters.  People like the idea of a passenger/tourist train, not the idea of giving tax dollars to repair a track so a company can make money.  An American company at that.  I really doubt that this money could have been raised to upgrade the track for freight.  Is Raven coal even a go ahead?  If so when would we start to see trains on the port sub if they chose to ship that way?  My bet is a long time away indeed.


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railpuck
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #894 on: Feb 25th, 2013, 10:02pm »
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on Feb 25th, 2013, 9:29am, Polar wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Not a huge fan of the ICF either.  Curious though as to what else could have been done to save the E&N.  If your answer is freight, sure that would help.  But how do we get the money to upgrade the track for freight?  Freight companies will not commit until the track is up to snuff either.  Another chicken and the egg.  

Well there is infrastructure grant monies out there for rail but if you don't apply you don't receive. You gotta search and find!
Too much has been focused on Via Rail, and Rail Trails, when more should be put into marketing the line for freight.
Millions have been spent on these rail trails, and if that money had been put into the railway, the line would be running by now!


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wiggle_wagon

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #895 on: Feb 28th, 2013, 3:04pm »
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on Feb 25th, 2013, 10:02pm, railpuck wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Well there is infrastructure grant monies out there for rail but if you don't apply you don't receive. You gotta search and find!
Too much has been focused on Via Rail, and Rail Trails, when more should be put into marketing the line for freight.
Millions have been spent on these rail trails, and if that money had been put into the railway, the line would be running by now!

Really, it seems like almost anything that can garner public support can get a government grant. Politicians eventually want to be reelected.  
 
So, okay. Can anyone show me proof that the former E&N is actually owned by the people of Vancouver Island? The most tangible thing I've seen is that CP donated it to the people of VI but the ICF seems to operate as a private company that wants little to do with the public. Its a bit confusing.
It seems to me that as a publicly owned transportation corridor for the express purpose of moving local citizens, visitors, bulk and dangerous goods to and through the towns it connects along the island - as a safer alternative to trucks and buses and conceivably having lower emissions doing so, the various governmental levels should get behind this venture. This could be a model for the future elsewhere.
So why is this vision being "sold" to all levels of government as a private venture?
As a registered charity, and for the good of the communities and first nations on the island shouldn't this be presented as a public domain?
 
Just asking. This has bothered me for some time.


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wiggle_wagon

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #896 on: Feb 28th, 2013, 4:52pm »
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on Feb 23rd, 2013, 4:10am, railman-vi wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
That is a good question.  I don't think it ends well.  I have heard from good contacts that the ICF got little out of their recent meeting with VIA.  It seems just as you said your contact told you, that VIA will not commit to anything until the repairs have been made and the railway meets safety standards and VIA will not operate out of Nanaimo as they cannot afford to fund the additional costs, leaving the ICF and SVI to come up with the funds to do it.  VIA returning will also be dependent on their budget status at the time the railway is finished being repaired from what I was told.  Assuming of course the railway ever does get repaired.    

 
http://www.wawa-news.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17471:h-via-rail-budget-to-be-slashed-in-half&catid=42:federal-news&Itemid=68
 This is probably a very bad sign.


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albernisarah
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #897 on: Feb 28th, 2013, 6:47pm »
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Im my opinion, Graham will have a spin on the Via contract. It will be presented as all good . The ICF has no other choice but to present that they have a signed Via contract to the regional districts . They have almost three million in funding at stake. I think this money will be easier to obtain than the fifteen million from the Provence and Feds. This will allow them to tardy up the line with a little spit and polish and keep all the paid employees around for another year or two.
Sarah


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Polar
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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #898 on: Feb 28th, 2013, 7:57pm »
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on Feb 28th, 2013, 4:52pm, wiggle_wagon wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
http://www.wawa-news.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17471:h-via-rail-budget-to-be-slashed-in-half&catid=42:federal-news&Itemid=68
 This is probably a very bad sign.

 
Good old Harper.  Lets go backwards while everyone else goes forward.  It's the same with the environmental changes he has done.  Canada's shining landscape to become an industrial waist dump.


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wiggle_wagon

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Re: Rumours & Speculation & Rants
 
« Reply #899 on: Feb 28th, 2013, 10:46pm »
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Probably true, Sarah.  
 
More coverage: http://elizabethmaymp.ca/news/publications/press-releases/2013/02/28/greens-denounce-threat-of-extreme-cuts-to-via-rail/
 
Realistically, this could have been foreseen by the ICF. More than a few here called it. The big problem is that there is no "plan B" as it were. Everything hung on VIA coming back and now, its likely they never will.
Graham was a government man. He knows how these things work. In the end, he failed us. He failed the first nations and communities along the line.  
 
There will be some "spin" eventually put on this, after all, there are millions of dollars at stake. But you can't polish a turd.
 
Which still leaves us with a problem to solve on the E&N...


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