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   Author  Topic: Rumours & Speculation & Rants  (Read 21279 times)
Pyronova

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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #40 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 3:39am »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 1:51am, FSD8014 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
 I had to think twice about posting this part. The person they want in charge here is tied to China Shipping (an unnamed son ).  Seems also that the aim is container traffic over a heavily rebuilt Port sub. The way it was explained to me is that Crofton would be used as a marshalling yard for container cars (he said 300 cars), and another yard would be used for island bound or island based carloads. Duncan was mentioned previously as being considered as were others. Motive power? Anything is speculation. MRL has excess power( some available as lease power ) and SRY doesnt have enough though I gather it might be in transition right now. Didnt MRL order SD70 or 75's recently? I strongly doubt that they would get here, but they might free up other power for other duties. Washington is pretty savvy, he owns the rail barge and has a barge slip here, he has rail equipment and rail management people and is experienced at turning failing shortlines around. He is uniquely qualified to operate the E&N.

 
Firstly, the E&N is a Railway from nowhere to nowhere and someplace else nowhere  connected by water.
 
Please read my first post in this thread regarding containers and Port Alberni.
 
The ES70s are replacement for the aging SD45 MRL fleet, as they are set to retire soon, and the ESs are 30% more fuel effcient.


« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2005, 3:41am by Pyronova » Logged

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B_Winkler
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #41 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 5:00am »
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on Jul 4th, 2005, 2:08pm, Pyronova wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 
     I once was talking to someone who thought that Port Alberni should have a container port.  In his idea, this was great because the Asian ships would not have to sail around the Island.  And the economic windfall for Port Alberni would be great. The inlet is deep enough for the ships to sail into.  Port Alberni had even had a CRUSIE Ship in it once!   I said to him that it was a great idea, but I had one question.....   Where were the containers going?   To the mainland!!!  Where else?? He looked at me like I was an idiot.   (At this point I am laughing, which did not help his temper..   )  I then said to him...  That all sounds great, but why would you load all those containers onto a trains, to then either reload them on a ship to take them to the mainland or have to put loaded cars on a barge to sail them to the mainland...   Would it not be cheaper to sail the ship around the island and unload them once only?  This guy stood there completly dumbfounded.  How could his "island intellect" have failed him?
 

 
Hmmmm.  And you completely missed the point of the suggestion.  Time sensitive containers (more and more) waiting a week to be unloaded from frieghters on the mainland.  With a further delay reloading onto railcars.  All of this versus an easy IMMEDIATE unload at Port Alberni, 2 days to the intechange point from there.  A transfer and delivery to the mainland of a container already railcar loaded by a railroad that controls its own access to interchange and bypassing the congestion on the mainland.  You cannot see the value in that?  
 
I am not saying that it will happen.  But it certainly does not deserve the derision that you, in your ignorance, attempted to pile on to the suggestion.  You should be apologizing to the person who made the original suggestion.  At least they were thinking.  
 


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Cody
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #42 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 11:21am »
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I like your green paint scheme aaron.  It would suit the scenery.

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Pyronova

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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #43 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 1:09pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 5:00am, B_Winkler wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Hmmmm.  And you completely missed the point of the suggestion.  Time sensitive containers (more and more) waiting a week to be unloaded from frieghters on the mainland.  With a further delay reloading onto railcars.  All of this versus an easy IMMEDIATE unload at Port Alberni, 2 days to the intechange point from there.  A transfer and delivery to the mainland of a container already railcar loaded by a railroad that controls its own access to interchange and bypassing the congestion on the mainland.  You cannot see the value in that?  
 
I am not saying that it will happen.  But it certainly does not deserve the derision that you, in your ignorance, attempted to pile on to the suggestion.  You should be apologizing to the person who made the original suggestion.  At least they were thinking.  
 

They may have been thinking, but obviously not of time or the big picture with the expansion of Prince Rupert and the extra 1.5 days for the transit off of the Island.  Time sensitive freight?   Do you really need your new TV one day sooner?  
 
And as for the congestion of the Mainland, how can one avoid it by unloading on the Island?   No shortline on the Mainland is completly independant from the Major 3. The Tilsbury spur  joins the BNSF and the 2 bottle necks out of there are the line through Langley (CN/CP) and the crossing of the Fraser under the Pattulo (CN/CP/BNSF).   The slip at Vancouver is already overcrowded by the Port of Vancouver.   Lastly, the final bottleneck is the Fraser Canyon.     Explain how unloading on the Island can be in anyway be 1) cheaper and 2) faster.    
As I said earlier, had anyone connected directly to the Island, the idea is gold.


« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2005, 1:10pm by Pyronova » Logged

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B_Winkler
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #44 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 1:27pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 1:09pm, Pyronova wrote:       (Click here for original message)

They may have been thinking, but obviously not of time or the big picture with the expansion of Prince Rupert and the extra 1.5 days for the transit off of the Island.  Time sensitive freight?   Do you really need your new TV one day sooner?  

 
 
In these days of just-in-time inventory, days really are starting to matter.  
 
 
on Jul 7th, 2005, 1:09pm, Pyronova wrote:       (Click here for original message)

And as for the congestion of the Mainland, how can one avoid it by unloading on the Island?   No shortline on the Mainland is completly independant from the Major 3. The Tilsbury spur  joins the BNSF and the 2 bottle necks out of there are the line through Langley (CN/CP) and the crossing of the Fraser under the Pattulo (CN/CP/BNSF).   The slip at Vancouver is already overcrowded by the Port of Vancouver.   Lastly, the final bottleneck is the Fraser Canyon.     Explain how unloading on the Island can be in anyway be 1) cheaper and 2) faster.    
As I said earlier, had anyone connected directly to the Island, the idea is gold.

 
Actually, the point of my post was that you were derisive and went out of your way to put the person down for their idea.   As for unloading,  the question is this.  If we save a day by going to port alberni, unload the ship right away, and deliver already loaded rail cars to the transfer points up to a week earlier, there will be containers and shippers who will benefit from that.  Not all of them but if it is marketed as a priority service, it may develop a market.  
 
Its an idea.  Worth discussing. And not worthy of the negative spin and ridicule that you chose to put on both it and the person who suggested it.  I guess I have just seen too many similar posts from you and got really tired of seeing them go unanswered.   If you dont like an idea, counter it. But posts like "How could his "island intellect" have failed him?" really are not productive.  
 


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Aaron Lypkie
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #45 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 2:42pm »
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I agree with the last post. Its an idea that should be looked at. If the rumours about Washington Group are true and possible container traffic on the line, then they must see something we dont.
 
Obviously the Port Sub would have to be heavily rebuilt to allow such an operation to occur. Some of the bridges would have to be replaced or strengthened. Heavier rail and newer ties would have to be used as well. Imagine more trains coming from and to Port Alberni, Victoria, Nanaimo etc. Perhaps an extension to Campbell River. Its a train fans dream come true.
 
Back to reality.
 
I am thinking a lot of transloading would occur along the line. Progressive Rail and Swy of BC have a lot of this occuring along their routes.
 
Aaron


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FSD8014
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #46 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 2:53pm »
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Firstly, Pyronova, you are right about the ES70's replacing SD45's. That was said to me, I chose not to post it that way. Many of Washingtons SD45's are available as lease units, therefore probably not entirely junk, he is also known to get every last mile out of his equipment. There will still be SD45's on the roster, you can pretty much count on that. Secondly, you can bet he's done his homework on the E&N and sees a future in it or he wouldnt spend a dime on it. Thirdly, there isnt one place on this island I would refer to as "nowhere", islanders love this place.   Paint?   Washington rail group has a paint scheme in place. Our E&N stuff would look more or less like SRY or MRL, except it would say "E&N". PROUDLY!     Thank you, B. Winkler for defending us from negativity, it hasnt helped our cause yet.

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B_Winkler
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #47 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 3:38pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 2:53pm, FSD8014 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Secondly, you can bet he's done his homework on the E&N and sees a future in it or he wouldnt spend a dime on it.

 
Further to that, I would bet that he has an agreement in principal with Norske to start shipping by rail within a set period of time.  Or some other major source of traffic from Port Alberni.  
 
It seems that this is the only way this makes sense.  


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Pyronova

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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #48 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 5:15pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 2:53pm, FSD8014 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Firstly, Pyronova, you are right about the ES70's replacing SD45's. That was said to me, I chose not to post it that way. Many of Washingtons SD45's are available as lease units, therefore probably not entirely junk, he is also known to get every last mile out of his equipment. There will still be SD45's on the roster, you can pretty much count on that. Secondly, you can bet he's done his homework on the E&N and sees a future in it or he wouldnt spend a dime on it. Thirdly, there isnt one place on this island I would refer to as "nowhere", islanders love this place.   Paint?   Washington rail group has a paint scheme in place. Our E&N stuff would look more or less like SRY or MRL, except it would say "E&N". PROUDLY!     Thank you, B. Winkler for defending us from negativity, it hasnt helped our cause yet.

 
1)  Unless $50 million plus is spent on the complete line from ties, straightening curves and upgrading bridges/trestles, there will never be a six axle or SD45 on the Island.
 
2)  Until the Island either a) recieves a barge load a day or b) is connected by rail to the mainland or c) ships a barge load a day, it is a rock with a railline from nowhere to nowhere.
 
3)  Unless the above happens, my "negativity" is fact based; from observations, reading sources other than this site and other non-railroad sources.  As a former Islander who has woken up and faced reality; it is too bad that Vancouver Islanders do not wake up and realize that there is life off of the Island, and do something about their "toy" railroad.   Vote in a Gov;t with a backbone to get the lumber industry up for rail exports.  Restore a steamer and run it with cruise ship tourists on the line.  B_Winkler - Point your finger at me all you want, but the reality is you have not come up with any ideas, rumors or suggestions that will make any realistic sence.  
 


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B_Winkler
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #49 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 5:37pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 5:15pm, Pyronova wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 B_Winkler - Point your finger at me all you want, but the reality is you have not come up with any ideas, rumors or suggestions that will make any realistic sence.  
 

 
I have no intention of getting into a flame war with you.  You obviously have anger management issues of your own.  
 
The bottom line is that the Washington Group, the ICF and all of the others who ware working toward rejuvenating the E&N see something in the future.  Of course, you certainly know that they are all wrong, that is very clear in your posts.  
 
The fact is that many small ideas are what is going to work for the E&N,  
 
Norske shipping by rail again.  Possibly to Crofton and barged directly to the US
The Budd cars and commuter rail from Duncan
VIA rail service
A tourist operator that runs a steam train from Victoria to Duncan or Nanaimo.
The folks in Port Alberni running excursions from Port Alberni to Parksville
Containers from Port Alberni to the mainland.
The new mine in Port Alberni.
Selling Wellcox to raise the money for the Crofton Sub and track upgrades.  
 
These and many other suggested both here and elsewhere are positive suggestions.  Some will work, some wont.  But people are going to try.  
And others will cheer them on.  
 
And you will complain and denigrate.  
 
Positive enough for ya?
 
 
 


« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2005, 5:39pm by B_Winkler » Logged
OldShayLogger
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #50 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 6:00pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 5:37pm, B_Winkler wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I have no intention of getting into a flame war with you.  You obviously have anger management issues of your own.  
 
The bottom line is that the Washington Group, the ICF and all of the others who ware working toward rejuvenating the E&N see something in the future.  Of course, you certainly know that they are all wrong, that is very clear in your posts.  
 
The fact is that many small ideas are what is going to work for the E&N,  
 
Norske shipping by rail again.  Possibly to Crofton and barged directly to the US
The Budd cars and commuter rail from Duncan
VIA rail service
A tourist operator that runs a steam train from Victoria to Duncan or Nanaimo.
The folks in Port Alberni running excursions from Port Alberni to Parksville
Containers from Port Alberni to the mainland.
The new mine in Port Alberni.
Selling Wellcox to raise the money for the Crofton Sub and track upgrades.  
 
These and many other suggested both here and elsewhere are positive suggestions.  Some will work, some wont.  But people are going to try.  
And others will cheer them on.  
 
And you will complain and denigrate.  
 
Positive enough for ya?
 
 
 

 
 
as a new user here, i have been reading everyones posts.  i must say that island people are quite energetic about their railroad.  from what i have gathered over the last while is that there are many miles of unused road and what should one do with them? it is unfortunate that the economic times are such that a separtated island of railroad can not turn a profit or at least break even.  I understand pyronovas view in that a container reload system in say hawaii to ship to los angleas does not seam viable. bwinkler on the other hand seems to think that any idea will work given a chance.  the concept of boats for railcars is a foregn concept for me and can some one explain how boats make a railroad profitable? especialy if the railroad is soley reliant on boats? what is this connection pyronova had mentioned? a bridge somewhere?


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B_Winkler
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #51 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 6:24pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 6:00pm, OldShayLogger wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
bwinkler on the other hand seems to think that any idea will work given a chance.  the concept of boats for railcars is a foregn concept for me and can some one explain how boats make a railroad profitable? especialy if the railroad is soley reliant on boats? what is this connection pyronova had mentioned? a bridge somewhere?

 
Not quite, I believe they should be considered from a potential business point of view.  Try them only if the numbers work.  Argue against it, but dont ridicule someone for putting it forward.  Some of the greatest ideas in history seemed far-fetched at first.  
 
All access to the E&N is by railbarge.  Being on an island, this is a neccessity.  A bridge would seem to be a long way off, given the geography and expense involved.  
 
However, given the same geography, it is a fact that Port Alberni (on the west coast of Vancouver Island, is a full days sailing closer to the Orient.  Add that to the congestion in the port of Vancouver and it would seem that there is some merit in looking at the idea of offloading in Port Alberni onto railcars and delivering them to the railbarge at Nanaimo or Crofton.  In turn, these already loaded railcars would be fed into the tail system at one of the mainland transfer points.  This would only work for time-critical containers, if it worked at all.  Many factors would have to be considered, including demand, extra costs, re-investment in the rail line and facilities at Port Alberni.  It would cost, but the people buying into the line have the money and the ability to do those cost analyses.  They also have a track record (no pun intended) of making things like this work.  And they are not afraid of investing in infrastucture if they can see a return.
 


« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2005, 6:27pm by B_Winkler » Logged
cn2220
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #52 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 6:55pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 3:39am, Pyronova wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 
Please read my first post in this thread regarding containers and Port Alberni.
 

 
I would tend to agree with you about the containers BUT since Port Alberni is so much more closer than Vancouver or even Prince Rupert the container ship can save days on its journey and the faster those ships can unload, load and be on their way, the better. It could be unloaded, loaded and heading back to Asia while a ship bound for Vancouver would still be fiting for a dock and a Prince Rupert ship would probably juat be unloading. The only problem with the planned port at Pt.Alberni is where the heck are you going to put a huge container port that is near the railway?  
 
 
No offence intended here but Pyronova you don't seem to realize that the containers would be loaded onto railcars in Port Alberni, hauled to wherever(crofton or Wellcox), put on a railbarge, railcar and all and interchanged with either CN or CP at Tilbury, or BNSF or UP in Seattle. Once the containers are loaded onto the railcar at Port Alberni they would not be removed until they get to wherever they are going.


« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2005, 7:03pm by cn2220 » Logged

Tyler

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cn2220
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #53 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 7:31pm »
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I wouldn't say Washington Group is automatically the new operator, there is another, local company bidding on the E&N as well. We won't find out until later this month though.

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B_Winkler
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #54 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 7:32pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 6:55pm, ENR3870 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 
No offence intended here but Pyronova you don't seem to realize that the containers would be loaded onto railcars in Port Alberni, hauled to wherever(crofton or Wellcox), put on a railbarge, railcar and all and interchanged with either CN or CP at Tilbury, or BNSF or UP in Seattle. Once the containers are loaded onto the railcar at Port Alberni they would not be removed until they get to wherever they are going.

 
Well said


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Pyronova

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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #55 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 7:42pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 6:55pm, ENR3870 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I would tend to agree with you about the containers BUT since Port Alberni is so much more closer than Vancouver or even Prince Rupert the container ship can save days on its journey and the faster those ships can unload, load and be on their way, the better. It could be unloaded, loaded and heading back to Asia while a ship bound for Vancouver would still be fiting for a dock and a Prince Rupert ship would probably juat be unloading. The only problem with the planned port at Pt.Alberni is where the heck are you going to put a huge container port that is near the railway?  
 
 
No offence intended here but Pyronova you don't seem to realize that the containers would be loaded onto railcars in Port Alberni, hauled to wherever(crofton or Wellcox), put on a railbarge, railcar and all and interchanged with either CN or CP at Tilbury, or BNSF or UP in Seattle. Once the containers are loaded onto the railcar at Port Alberni they would not be removed until they get to wherever they are going.

 
Firstly, Prince Rupert is closer than Port Alberni
Secondly,  where in PA would these "facilities" go?
Thirdly.....  The top of the list of issue is why unload on the island to go to the mainland?    The whole reason for delay at the moment is that any container trains, regardless of Vancouver, Seattle, San Fran or LA is that they are at capacity.  Everyone here is saying that unloading on the Island makes sence because the containers are on the railcar when introduced to the Mainland.  So what; if there is no line to transport to due to congestion!!!!!! The barged container train can't go anywhere!   The whole laughing matter of the Port Alberni idea is that you are trying to fix a leak in a 12 inch pipe (mianland capacity) with a bandaid (Port Alberni).
    The whole reason for the Prince Rupert expansion is the CN has from Jasper to Prince Rupert 450 miles + of track that is really only used by VIA.   From Jasper to Chicago is double tracked for the majority - plenty of room.    
   But!  The whole matter is that the North American Rail System is at capacity.  All Class I railways are in the middle of trying to double track major routes and upgrade secondary lines to help balance the system.    
   Port Alberni would make sence in the same way as Prince Rupert makes sence IF it were connected to the mainland directly.    
   The real thing that should be addressed here?    Why do we as a society HAVE to have a second or third TV?  a coffee maker in every room?  a laptop for every SUV? 2 SUVs for every child?   If we North Americans were actually satified with what we have, instead of trying to "keep up with the jones' " ,  there would be no need for expanding the North American Rail or Port systems.     Look in your own back yard first.  This is the "Island intellect" I refer to.  No one looks past their own back yard.  Just me me me me what about me??   I need a SUV!  I need this! I need that! - All without regard to the rest of the province, country, continent or planet.
 
I am not trying to offend, only educate.    
 
 


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vicguy
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #56 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 9:03pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 7:42pm, Pyronova wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 
   The real thing that should be addressed here?    Why do we as a society HAVE to have a second or third TV?  a coffee maker in every room?  a laptop for every SUV? 2 SUVs for every child?   If we North Americans were actually satified with what we have, instead of trying to "keep up with the jones' " ,  there would be no need for expanding the North American Rail or Port systems.     Look in your own back yard first.  This is the "Island intellect" I refer to.  No one looks past their own back yard.  Just me me me me what about me??   I need a SUV!  I need this! I need that! - All without regard to the rest of the province, country, continent or planet.
 
I am not trying to offend, only educate.    
 
 
 

 
Can't we keep the topics here "railroad" related? Go preach somewhere else.


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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #57 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 9:24pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 9:03pm, vicguy wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Can't we keep the topics here "railroad" related? Go preach somewhere else.

 
 
I see another fails to grasp the concept of why railroads even exist.
 
To move raw or bulk or heavy items to markets for consumers.   I would like you to find ANY home in North America that does not have some item contained within that has not been transported by rail.  Pre or Post construction/manufacturing. IMPOSSIBLE!
 


« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2005, 9:26pm by Pyronova » Logged

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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #58 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 10:28pm »
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 9:24pm, Pyronova wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I see another fails to grasp the concept of why railroads even exist.
 

 
No what he is saying is that nobody wants to here your version of why railroads exist.  If I want 4 SUV's, its none of your damn business


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CroftonSpur88
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Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #59 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 10:46pm »
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We should all be grateful that we have a genius like Pyronova to correct  us simple, uneducated folk of our ignorance.Clearly he knows more about running a railway than Dennis Washington. I guess that's why Dennis Washington is a millionaire who's made a fortune in the transportation game, while Pyronova  spends his time starting flame wars on a railroad website.Us morons should realize that Pyro's always right, even when he's wrong.
 
  
 
  I'll just stop now before he runs to Henry again and gets us dumb dudes in trouble.
 


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