Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Mar 25th, 2017, 5:47pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


Rumours & Speculation & Rants
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Regional Area Operations
   Vancouver Island
(Moderators: SRY 110, Pyronova, Henry)
   Rumours & Speculation & Rants
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ...  48 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: Rumours & Speculation & Rants  (Read 21240 times)
timberland#7
Railfan
Posts: 131
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #340 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 7:30am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Saturday Oct 7 2006, I saw a string of about 15 brand-new SRY boxcars waiting in a BNSF siding SW of the New Westminster Bridge.    The interesting thing about these bright RED new boxcars was the "Catalyst" logo on the right side of the boxcar.........  And they are report marked SRY.  
 
Hmmmmmm   potential Alberni usage?   Would be nice.......  
 
Only the Cell-phone camera available........  
new to this site and computers but have been reading this site for about two years this is my first post .Port  alberni closed its pulp mill in the nineties and relied on getting pulp from powell river via rail or harmac via truck .When harmac was sold this left only Powell river to supply wet lap pulp by boxcar. When norske bought Powellriver and  Alberni they closed powellrivers pulp mill because they could make enough pulp at croften .I agree that Alberni will not go back to rail  to haul pulp ,Croften has a truck load for this and I dont see this is going to change.    That said  in august or september Alberni anounced it would be closing its ground wood mill and using recycled paper for fibre, coincedently after southern railway  took over the E&N. Alberni  I believe used recycled paper before shipped by rail but not in the quantity that they will need now once they stop using ground wood. I believe this is one of the reasons southern  took on the E&N


Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #341 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 11:15am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Welcome to the Railfan.net forum for Van Isle, Timberland 7.
Interesting observation. I have the impression Catalyst is trying to shut down the #4 paper machine. What do you think?


« Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2006, 11:28am by FSD8014 » Logged
timberland#7
Railfan
Posts: 131
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #342 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 12:48pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I havent  been to the mill in a while but nothing would suprise me. The forest industrie on the coast isnt good . Albernis #3 machine I dont know if it is running  but its the one that uses  a lot of kraft pulp ,#4 and#5 use mostly ground wood recycled paper and clay . When Alberni made this anouncment they said in the future they may build a thermo mechanical pulp mill (TMP). Alberni  and the other mills on the coast are running into low fibre supplys due to all the saw mill closures over the years . Theres talk that the saw mills in Alberni may close in a couple of years.Alberni is at abit of a disatvantage due to its location for barge service this might be good thou for Southern and us rail fans.With Catalyst now having so many paper mills and Albernis location they may shut #4 machine down,Albernis savior is its #5 machine that uses the clay,hence the name Alberni specialty papers.Low fibre on the coast may cause wood chips to be shipped from the interior mills,another good thing for rail fans. Once I figure out this computor stuff I will share my pictures here ,Im supprised that Ieven got my mesage on this forum.

Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #343 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 4:25pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Nov 8th, 2006, 12:48pm, timberland#7 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I havent  been to the mill in a while but nothing would suprise me. The forest industrie on the coast isnt good . Albernis #3 machine I dont know if it is running  but its the one that uses  a lot of kraft pulp ,#4 and#5 use mostly ground wood recycled paper and clay . When Alberni made this anouncment they said in the future they may build a thermo mechanical pulp mill (TMP). Alberni  and the other mills on the coast are running into low fibre supplys due to all the saw mill closures over the years . Theres talk that the saw mills in Alberni may close in a couple of years.Alberni is at abit of a disatvantage due to its location for barge service this might be good thou for Southern and us rail fans.With Catalyst now having so many paper mills and Albernis location they may shut #4 machine down,Albernis savior is its #5 machine that uses the clay,hence the name Alberni specialty papers.Low fibre on the coast may cause wood chips to be shipped from the interior mills,another good thing for rail fans. Once I figure out this computor stuff I will share my pictures here ,Im supprised that Ieven got my mesage on this forum.

One of the posters on the Yahoo-E&N Railway group who lives in Port is quite adamant that Catalyst will not ship from there by rail again anytime soon. Then again he'd like to see the E&N narrow gauged and run by steam so I cant vouch for his partiality. He does claim to have spoken to whoever is in charge of transportation at Catalysts head office about it and got that answer though.  
As far as computer skills go dont sweat it. I learned just the other day how to make my my posts not look like a long sentence - by accident of course. And I still type with just an index finger.  
The pictures are pretty easy: go to the bottom of 'post a reply' page, click "browse"( that puts you into your pictures file), find the one you'd like to post and click on it. Its title will show next to the "Replace or Attach Image". If you want to resize or preview it, click the appropriate spot on that page. Try it out.


Logged
Jason King
Historian
Posts: 301
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #344 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 5:11pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Actually that's not quite true. One poster claims to have talked to Catalyst about the return to rail, and it's someone else who suggested the idea of narrow gauging the line from Port Alberni to Parksville and running a steam train on it. That would be Roger who I know personally, and he's quite serious about it. Sell everything buy the Port Sub, rip it all up and re lay the line narrow guage to run cheaply available steam equipment.
 
Cheers.
 
J\


Logged
timberland#7
Railfan
Posts: 131
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #345 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 5:45pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

He could be write I AM JUST SPECULATING . I just think if there going to use that much recycled paper that would be a whole lot of trucks on that highway  and more trucks woudnt  be a popular idea with the locals. Thanks for the help.

Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #346 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 10:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

One of Catalysts divisions, is the paper recycling plant in Coquitlam. I cant see them needing two but what the hell do I know.  
I'm an idiot. Just the same, happy to have helped.


« Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2006, 10:05pm by FSD8014 » Logged
Chris_C
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 761
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #347 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 11:23pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

welcome  
 
I think you have a very interseting perspective , and you do obiously have some insight into the operations at that mill. I hope you are right!
 
 
on an unrelated note.. i just read this entire thread from end to end.. and it gives you some interesting perspective on how fast things can change here  


Logged
timberland#7
Railfan
Posts: 131
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #348 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 6:49am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Sorry  FSD8014 I think you miss understood me.Alberni said they may build a TMP mill in the future, this uses wood chips but I dont think they will until they have a guaranteed  reliable source of wood fibre . I was not saying they would build another recycle plant but they will be  bring de inked  recycled paper over from Coquitlom once they close there ground wood mill.This would be there main source of fibre other than the trucked pulp from Crofton. That will be a lot of product shipped over there from Coquitlom  by truck or rail. Has anyone heard how this will be transported.

Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #349 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 9:43am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

No need to be sorry Timberland#7. I'm not upset, I just find this all frustrating. Plus I like to admit I'm an idiot once in a while, that way when I'm proven wrong - see this answer.
Currently, Catalyst is playing hardball with Port Alberni over property taxes and I strongly doubt PA can meet their 50% demand. Port offered 20% if Catalyst would promise not to lay off any employees for a given period of time. Catalyst said no. The threat is to shut down the #4 paper plant. Its like "Cut our taxes by 50% or face layoffs". Port Alberni cant win. I think the province needs to step in. Again, what do I know?  
This is like so many things to do with the E&N, time will tell.


Logged
timberland#7
Railfan
Posts: 131
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #350 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 1:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Yes I understand what Catalyst is up to its not the first time theyve tried this didnt they say this before closing #3 machine . With having such a monopoly on paper mills Catalyst can use threats like that.What would H.R.Macmillan think now. Back to railroads, there still going to need a lot of recycled paper even if they just run one paper machine

Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #351 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 9:09pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Nov 9th, 2006, 1:20pm, timberland#7 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Back to railroads, there still going to need a lot of recycled paper even if they just run one paper machine

True, but they have committed to trucks.


Logged
pa_sub1
Railfan
Posts: 127
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #352 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 11:18pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Nov 9th, 2006, 1:20pm, timberland#7 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Back to railroads, there still going to need a lot of recycled paper even if they just run one paper machine

 
This is actually false.  The #5 Paper Machine does not use recycle paper and won't in the future.


Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #353 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 11:32pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

PA_sub1, what is your take on the mill in PA? More paper or less? Trucks or trains? Other customers in the area? Any reason to reopen the sub?

Logged
pa_sub1
Railfan
Posts: 127
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #354 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 11:34pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Nov 9th, 2006, 9:43am, FSD8014 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Currently, Catalyst is playing hardball with Port Alberni over property taxes and I strongly doubt PA can meet their 50% demand. Port offered 20% if Catalyst would promise not to lay off any employees for a given period of time. Catalyst said no. The threat is to shut down the #4 paper plant. Its like "Cut our taxes by 50% or face layoffs". Port Alberni cant win. I think the province needs to step in. Again, what do I know?

 
It's worth putting the tax situation in perspective.  The mill in Port Alberni pays around $23 in municipal tax for every ton of product it produces.  The industry average in Canada is between $6 and $10.  So realistically, to level the playing field, asking for a 50% reduction is not outlandish.  The mill is paying the same tax it did when it had 3 paper machines and 2 pulp machines running.  The sentiment out there regarding the government position on the subject is that they would side with the companies rather than with the municipalities.  High municipal tax rates have been an ongoing deterrent to investment in smaller communities.  Port Alberni, to its credit, has offered industrial clients a 10 year waiver on taxes on any investment in the community over $100,000.  Therefore if someone built a new sawmill here, they shouldn't have to pay taxes on the mill for 10 years.


Logged
pa_sub1
Railfan
Posts: 127
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #355 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 11:48pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Nov 9th, 2006, 11:32pm, FSD8014 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
PA_sub1, what is your take on the mill in PA? More paper or less? Trucks or trains? Other customers in the area? Any reason to reopen the sub?

 
Well, here's what I know.  There is a preferred plan forward for the mill that would include 2 paper machines with an investment in the mill's pulping capacity that would help it to become one of the lowest cost producers of paper in North America.  In order to secure the investment, the company has asked the city for a tax reduction as well as asking the union locals for some changes as well.  If the company secures the agreement on the issues, the mill should have some stability for the next 5 years anyway.  There are no guarantees these days as there is significant paper capacity coming on line in China which will inevitably push prices down.  If the company doesn't secure agreement, then the #4 paper machine will eventually shut down.
As for rail, I don't see it coming back to the mill.  The kraft pulp business has gone permanently to truck, and the preferred plan for the recycle pulp is to use none of it here.  That doesn't leave a lot of business to run a railway.  I believe the company plans to sell off the rail yard in the near future.  


« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2006, 11:58pm by pa_sub1 » Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #356 on: Nov 10th, 2006, 12:34am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I cant make heads or tails of this debate. I checked the Alberni.ca forums and there are several threads about this but no clear direction from the citizens of PA. Example: http://www.alberni.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=6023  One post even says that Catalyst made $110.- a ton on the #4 machine in September. I think I need to think about something else for a while.

Logged
timberland#7
Railfan
Posts: 131
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #357 on: Nov 10th, 2006, 6:31am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Pa sub1 I didnt know that about #5 machine I havent been there in a while but I do believe you.  The tv news clip I saw said they would be using recycled paper but theyve been wrong before.In reality probaly just more trucks over the hump with kraft pulp from Croften. DAMM TRUCKS.

Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #358 on: Nov 10th, 2006, 10:52pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Its not the fault of the trucks, the truckers or the trucking companies, Timberland#7. These are people like you and me trying to provide for their families. When Catalyst decided to go with truck haulage, that was it for rail. The trucks, like the railway simply provide a service. Whos to say what made the decision to change to trucks on Catalysts part. For them its just business, maybe cheaper (or not), maybe the pulp chips werent on active rail. Maybe they were put off by the previous railway companies. Who knows. I dont mean to sound like a jerk but Im a gravel truck driver and a railfan. And try as I might, I cant come up with a plausable scheme to get freight trains to Victoria or elsewhere on VI.
 I did however, hear that SRY will provide occasional service to get things rolling here. In fact what I heard was that SRY offered to service a sawmill on the Malahat (Shawnigan Lake South Rd) that makes flooring and might only load 1 or 2 cars a month. I dont know if the story is true though. It would be an interesting note if proven. Then SRY will have proven everything I've ever heard about them. IE: "personalized, market driven, customer oriented and neutral shortline service."- like it says on their website.


Logged
pa_sub1
Railfan
Posts: 127
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #359 on: Nov 11th, 2006, 12:55am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

One of the things that works against railways acquiring new customers is that they have to acquire land to lay tracks on to service these customers.  Trucks can use existing roads which are funded mostly by the taxpayers.

Logged
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ...  48 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »