Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Jun 26th, 2017, 1:38pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


Rumours & Speculation & Rants
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Regional Area Operations
   Vancouver Island
(Moderators: SRY 110, Pyronova, Henry)
   Rumours & Speculation & Rants
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  ...  48 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: Rumours & Speculation & Rants  (Read 21539 times)
boxcar
Historian
Posts: 357
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #20 on: Jul 3rd, 2005, 11:40am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Just a comment, but the last time is was there, talking to some people they named the Yreka Southern?? as a possible interested party, not sure how far that goes, but i;d thought i throw it out there.

Logged

Ttm Alyth yard
cn2220
Historian
Posts: 3098
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #21 on: Jul 3rd, 2005, 2:38pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jul 1st, 2005, 8:35pm, CroftonSpur88 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Tyler wrote
 
That's what we've been hearing for three years now...

 
It WILL happen, just not while RailAmerica is running things.


« Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2005, 2:40pm by cn2220 » Logged

Tyler

Long live the GE`s!!!!
Jason King
Historian
Posts: 301
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #22 on: Jul 3rd, 2005, 8:58pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

While I can see that Norske may not be a long term customer for the railway, I think the point is that right now, they would be a good short term anchor business that can help restore confidence in the railway. They may not be here in ten years, but I'm sure they'll be here for at least another five.
 
I'm sure given the right operator they'd go back to rail.
 
Cheers.
 
J\


Logged
Pyronova

View Profile  

Posts: 2058
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #23 on: Jul 4th, 2005, 2:08pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify


 
In regards to the Crofton yard idea.....
     The lands near and ajoining the 2 mile Crofton spur are native band lands.  Perhaps a long term lease of their lands will be much cheaper than maintaining the fiasco at Wellcox?  Maybe someone knows something we don't? Also, Norske already has a rail slip at Crofton, which interchanges with whoever they choose, as they are not limited to only CP; they can also interchange with BNSF/CN at Vancouver or Tilbury; or BNSF/UP at Seattle.  So, Crofton makes sence in this case.
 
     If the Washington Group (Southern Railway of BC ex BC Hydro; also Montana Raillink ex Northern Pacific) were to take the line off of RailAmerica's hands,  interchanging is alot easier and faster for Island based traffic: The Tilbury spur (Delta BC) is a hop/skip/jump from the SRY yard (via CN/BNSF bridges) and SRY can interchange with CP, CN, & BNSF all within a mile of their yard, all in one afternoon.  Also, with the Annacis Island industrial area at their complete disposal, raw materials/goods to/from the Island make sence for Washington Group.
 
     Someone mentioned recyclables traveling from Victoria on the Malahat to the Mainland?   Ummm...  there is a trailer barge facility beside the BC Ferries Swartz Bay terminal.  Why would trucks drive from Victoria to Nanaimo to get on a barge or ferry there?  Sorry, that makes no economic sence.
 
     I once was talking to someone who thought that Port Alberni should have a container port.  In his idea, this was great because the Asian ships would not have to sail around the Island.  And the economic windfall for Port Alberni would be great. The inlet is deep enough for the ships to sail into.  Port Alberni had even had a CRUSIE Ship in it once!   I said to him that it was a great idea, but I had one question.....   Where were the containers going?   To the mainland!!!  Where else?? He looked at me like I was an idiot.   (At this point I am laughing, which did not help his temper..   )  I then said to him...  That all sounds great, but why would you load all those containers onto a trains, to then either reload them on a ship to take them to the mainland or have to put loaded cars on a barge to sail them to the mainland...   Would it not be cheaper to sail the ship around the island and unload them once only?  This guy stood there completly dumbfounded.  How could his "island intellect" have failed him?
  After this conversation,  I realized then that the world has changed from 25 to 30 years ago, and that unfortunatly the E&N is destined to become a segmented tourist train operation, with a gasoline powered "steam engine" and 3 radio flyer wagons in tow.       *IF* CP/Dunsmuir/Canadian Government of 100 years past HAD connected the Island to the Mainland via Seymour Narrows, his idea would have been gold; but it was not to be.  As much as the E&N has a place in my heart, the simple economic math of today will not allow the E&N to continue, unless major increases of rail traffic occur.  Realisticly, there should be 50 cars coming onto the Island per week and 200 leaving per week (loaded cars I mean). Plus 25 cars moved between Island points. This would sustain a 16 hr/7 days a week operation that would be profitable.    When was the last time this happened?  
     
 
 
 


Logged

Moderator of: Mainline - Rail Safety; Regional Areas - British Columbia & Vancouver Island; Fallen Flags - The Milwaukee Road; & Model Railroading - N-Scale .


Aaron Lypkie
Historian
Posts: 2064
Re:  Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #24 on: Jul 4th, 2005, 4:51pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

That would have been me about the trucks going up the Malahat. I wasnt sure if they did, obviously they dont. Thankyou for correcting me.
As for the E&N becoming just a tourist line, then we might as well roll out the red carpet for the liberals and their scheme to expand the highway thru Goldstream Park or the Sooke Watershed, because thats where its going to go. I know myself and many others wont let that happen.  
As for the economics of keeping the E&N afloat, no one that I know has aggressively marketed the the use of rail on the island, not CPR, not RA (because CP wouldnt let them) or VIA (the FEDs couldnt give a hoot of what goes on back here, I guess they are too busy bribing their freinds in Quebec). Just because there isnt anything happening on the line at the moment doesnt mean there isnt any freight or passenger potential of the line.
 
Until the operator is announced, until the E&N is in the hands of the ICF, everything we say at this moment is rumour and speculation.  
 
Unfortunately the current state of the E&N doesnt give us much hope. I know that the cycling groups are just itching to get their hands on it for a bike trail. But bike trails arent going to help in the current and future traffic problems on our island roads. We cant stop people from moving here (and a lot are coming), so why dont we promote the E&N as a sustainable way to travel on the island. (refer to my last few posts).
 
Aaron
 
 


Logged
CP8673
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 900
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #25 on: Jul 4th, 2005, 6:30pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Any and all interchange restrictions will be gove with the transfer to ICF, therefore discussion of Crofton vs. Wellcox is moot as far as far as interchange is concerned.  Don't jump out of what you have until you have to.

Logged
boxcar
Historian
Posts: 357
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #26 on: Jul 4th, 2005, 11:49pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

so when is this great transfer supposed to happen, does anyone know? It would be great if this icf got wellcox, then maybe they could make some $$$ of the property, and put it into the infastructure of the railroad.

Logged

Ttm Alyth yard
Cody
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 874
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #27 on: Jul 5th, 2005, 1:23am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Maybe some 'legal eagle' can provide the facts, but I do not think a railway company can just sell the land it "owns" at market value. There are some technicalities that have to do with government grants for transportation infrastructure and what-not.
 
Does anyone out there really want a condo at Wellcox looking out on the wharehouses and mills?  I think some industry might be better suited to the area and the zoning.  It seems like a good location for a railyard, and Norske won't be in control like it would at Crofton.  I say keep Wellcox for the trains!
 
Pyronova.....   Thank you for the bleak, yet in my opinion, very realistic assessment of the current state of things.  I agree totally that the key to the freight future of the railway is exported carloads of forest products (cut lumber/value added/chipboard/paralams/trusses...etc.) bound for the lumber markets in Chicago, not imported propane and a few cars of llama feed.   The passenger service is another story.  I think the Duncan to Victoria run makes a bunch of sense.
 
The best thing is that we will all see what is going to happen really soon.  I figure if the ties rot any more the lawsuit is gonna kill the whole railway anyway when a RDC full of tourists falls off the view royal bridge onto a busload of nuns.
 
The future is on it's way fellas...and it's coming fast (with slow orders).


« Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2005, 1:25am by Cody » Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #28 on: Jul 5th, 2005, 1:34am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Boxcar, I looked for a Yreka Southern and couldnt find one but I found a Yreka Western. They're owned by RailAmerica. Probably not interested.   It would be nice if The ICF would announce something and mean it.

Logged
cn2220
Historian
Posts: 3098
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #29 on: Jul 5th, 2005, 2:45am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Just speculating here, but with the newsprint plant closed at Port Alberni, Norske no longer has any need to send the Kaolin Clay to Port Alberni from Crofton, right? As that was the only traffic that would be coming out of Crofton for Port Alberni there's really no need to reconnect to Crofton now; and as it is my understanding, that the ICF already owns the CP sections of the E&N which includes the Wellcox barge slip they could very well continue to use Wellcox to serve the Port Alberni Mill and run barges into the USA to BNSF(they could interchange with BNSF in Vancouver too as the Tilbury Spur is actually owned by BNSF and CN, CP just has running rights) from Wellcox.  
 
BTW, the ICF is supposed to be announcing their operator sometime this month.


« Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2005, 2:48am by cn2220 » Logged

Tyler

Long live the GE`s!!!!
Aaron Lypkie
Historian
Posts: 2064
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #30 on: Jul 5th, 2005, 3:18am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I feel kind of stupid asking this, but does BTW mean (by the way)?
 
Anyway, the newsprint plan can still reopen. The paper industry isnt dead yet. Interestly the computer industry has actually increased paper use, not decreased it.
 
I hope all goes well. I am really curious who they announce as the operator.
 
Aaron


Logged
Walt_C
Historian
Posts: 2934
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #31 on: Jul 5th, 2005, 10:37am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jul 5th, 2005, 1:23am, Cody wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Maybe some 'legal eagle' can provide the facts, but I do not think a railway company can just sell the land it "owns" at market value. There are some technicalities that have to do with government grants for transportation infrastructure and what-not.

 
 This would depend on how the railway originally acquired the land. If it was a straight purchase, then the land can be sold just like any other real estate. If, however, it was acquired under "Eminent Domain", whether it could be sold would depend on the specific terms of the acquisition. Many times, railroad ROW's acquired this way were subject to a provision that once the land ceased being used for railway purposes, it would revert back to it's original owners. This is what kept the Philadelphia Suburban Transportation Company ( Red Arrow Lines) from bustituting its Media and Sharon Hill trolley lines back in the 1960's. Those two lines survive as rail lines today as SEPTA's Routes 101 and 102.  While I don't know anything about the situation being discussed here, whether or not the land in question could be sold would be subject to the conditions described above.


« Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2005, 10:38am by Walt_C » Logged

Please move to the rear and speed your ride-Regards, Walt
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #32 on: Jul 6th, 2005, 9:35pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Well, I have heard, reliably (and some of you probably know or could guess), that ICF is going to announce their rail operator. Washington Group. They own the barge slip at Crofton, the mill already served by them. That seems to be behind the push to reopen the Osborne Bay sub. They're set to spend $50 large upgrading the right of way including the Port sub and the line to Victoria (the north part wasnt mentioned). My source is fairly credible. The ICF is supposed to announce this "soon". Consider this a heads up.

Logged
Pyronova

View Profile  

Posts: 2058
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #33 on: Jul 6th, 2005, 11:28pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jul 6th, 2005, 9:35pm, FSD8014 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Well, I have heard, reliably (and some of you probably know or could guess), that ICF is going to announce their rail operator. Washington Group. They own the barge slip at Crofton, the mill already served by them. That seems to be behind the push to reopen the Osborne Bay sub. They're set to spend $50 large upgrading the right of way including the Port sub and the line to Victoria (the north part wasnt mentioned). My source is fairly credible. The ICF is supposed to announce this "soon". Consider this a heads up.                    

 
 
It seems like a no brainer the above will be reality; but then again, the CP Dayliner was not to run past 1977 either.....    
 
Clairify me this.....   Was it Washington Group that bought/leased BCRail Marine?  I know they bought the SeaSpan red/white barges.   And what is that thing in the corner of the "W" of the Washington Group's symbol anyways?
 
Tyler:  Could this be how your rumor of SW1200s of SRY/Montana Railink being used on the Island got started a year or more ago:  Washington Group thought about/knew/wanted the E&N and thought about running SW1200s or something to that effect? To continue the thoughts, if RA was using 2 2000 hp units (and sometimes only 1), will we see consits of 3 or 4 SW1200s    I have seen SRY's loco consist pulling the overpass of HWY 1 in Chilliwack - 1 GP-9 & 2 SW1200s     S C R E A M I N G to pull 30 cars over the 2.5-3% grade of the overpass...... I hope we won't hear the same on the Island.
 
 
Keep the ideas flowing......


Logged

Moderator of: Mainline - Rail Safety; Regional Areas - British Columbia & Vancouver Island; Fallen Flags - The Milwaukee Road; & Model Railroading - N-Scale .


ENR3005
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 771
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #34 on: Jul 6th, 2005, 11:52pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jul 6th, 2005, 9:35pm, FSD8014 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Well, I have heard, reliably (and some of you probably know or could guess), that ICF is going to announce their rail operator. Washington Group. They own the barge slip at Crofton, the mill already served by them. That seems to be behind the push to reopen the Osborne Bay sub. They're set to spend $50 large upgrading the right of way including the Port sub and the line to Victoria (the north part wasnt mentioned). My source is fairly credible. The ICF is supposed to announce this "soon". Consider this a heads up.                    

 
This would indeed be goods news in the making and I might have to bite my tongue about my previous comments about the situation with the mill in Port Alberni. I am sure the operation won't create as much traffic as the glory days with CP but you never now  
 
I wonder when they will start operations and what they are planning on using for power as they seem power short these days? Strange things have been happening with SRY's power lately and that has left me wondering what they are planning. I live beside the SRY main at Sullivan Station in Surrey and just watched a couple of switchers roll by my property with about a dozen cars which is odd because this is usually SD38-2 territory. This has been going on for the last couple of days and the power for the night train seems to be the same. I went into New West the other day and found a Green Goat switching the yard instead of the usual pair of yard switchers. Another strange thing I noticed while in New West that the engine house tracks were almost empty with a lot of the road power stuck in the shop which is really strange. I wonder if they are overhauling road power in preparation for this startup I can't see them sending the geeps to the island as they are horrible on the grades here, especially Scott Road hill which is 2.5% in places. I wonder if the SD38s would find a home on the island if the trackage is upgraded as these units were built for BC Hydro's lighter rail days in the 1970s?


Logged
Pyronova

View Profile  

Posts: 2058
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #35 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 12:03am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jul 6th, 2005, 11:52pm, ENR3005 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
This would indeed be goods news in the making and I might have to bite my tongue about my previous comments about the situation with the mill in Port Alberni. I am sure the operation won't create as much traffic as the glory days with CP but you never now  
 
I wonder when they will start operations and what they are planning on using for power as they seem power short these days? Strange things have been happening with SRY's power lately and that has left me wondering what they are planning. I live beside the SRY main at Sullivan Station in Surrey and just watched a couple of switchers roll by my property with about a dozen cars which is odd because this is usually SD38-2 territory. This has been going on for the last couple of days and the power for the night train seems to be the same. I went into New West the other day and found a Green Goat switching the yard instead of the usual pair of yard switchers. Another strange thing I noticed while in New West that the engine house tracks were almost empty with a lot of the road power stuck in the shop which is really strange. I wonder if they are overhauling road power in preparation for this startup I can't see them sending the geeps to the island as they are horrible on the grades here, especially Scott Road hill which is 2.5% in places. I wonder if the SD38s would find a home on the island if the trackage is upgraded as these units were built for BC Hydro's lighter rail days in the 1970s?

 
 
Being that SD-38's are 6 axles, they could not be a good fit for the Malahat. (curves - ask Tyler about the "dinner" train fiasco with 6 axle units......)
 
Check out this link for available leasing power owed by the Washington Group (Montana Rail Link) that could be used on the Island:
 http://www.montanarail.com/leasing/leasing.htm


« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2005, 12:05am by Pyronova » Logged

Moderator of: Mainline - Rail Safety; Regional Areas - British Columbia & Vancouver Island; Fallen Flags - The Milwaukee Road; & Model Railroading - N-Scale .


ENR3005
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 771
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #36 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 12:29am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jul 7th, 2005, 12:03am, Pyronova wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 
Being that SD-38's are 6 axles, they could not be a good fit for the Malahat. (curves - ask Tyler about the "dinner" train fiasco with 6 axle units......)
 
Check out this link for available leasing power owed by the Washington Group (Montana Rail Link) that could be used on the Island:
 http://www.montanarail.com/leasing/leasing.htm

 
Thanks for the link. You are more then likely correct that the curves might be a bit tight however SRY has operated the SDs in tight curve territory before. The units operate into Annacis Island whenever they are power short. This line has some of the tightest curves in the lower mainland being that it is mostly industrial trackage. The curves would be comparable to those on the island if not more severe in places. Given the surplus of GP9s and SW1200s that Washington group has on their roster, I imagine this will be the power for the fleet. It would be nice to hear the sound of EMD567s on the island again.


Logged
FSD8014
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 778
Re: Rumours & Speculation
 
« Reply #37 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 1:51am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

 I had to think twice about posting this part. The person they want in charge here is tied to China Shipping (an unnamed son ).  Seems also that the aim is container traffic over a heavily rebuilt Port sub. The way it was explained to me is that Crofton would be used as a marshalling yard for container cars (he said 300 cars), and another yard would be used for island bound or island based carloads. Duncan was mentioned previously as being considered as were others. Motive power? Anything is speculation. MRL has excess power( some available as lease power ) and SRY doesnt have enough though I gather it might be in transition right now. Didnt MRL order SD70 or 75's recently? I strongly doubt that they would get here, but they might free up other power for other duties. Washington is pretty savvy, he owns the rail barge and has a barge slip here, he has rail equipment and rail management people and is experienced at turning failing shortlines around. He is uniquely qualified to operate the E&N.

Logged
Aaron Lypkie
Historian
Posts: 2064
Re: Rumours & Speculation
  GP35.jpg - 69429 Bytes
« Reply #38 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 3:03am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

How about this for a paint scheme?
 
Aaron



Image exceeds display size of 900 pixels wide. (69429 bytes, 1106x589 pixels)


Click Here to View Image GP35.jpg - 69429 Bytes


« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2005, 3:22am by Aaron Lypkie » Logged
Aaron Lypkie
Historian
Posts: 2064
Re: Rumours & Speculation
  Vancouver/GP9RM_EN.jpg (Note: Can't Find Attachment!)
« Reply #39 on: Jul 7th, 2005, 3:30am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Or this?
 
Aaron


Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  ...  48 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »