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   Author  Topic: CN pics  (Read 32382 times)
Dayliner
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #460 on: Feb 27th, 2016, 12:44pm »
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I always thought back in the 80s that CN would stick around. Many of us did considering that even in the mid 80s  CN's traffic level seemed comparable to the e&n at time.

So true, torch. What none of us could foresee at the time were the eventual effects of de-regulation of the railway industry and long-term shifts in the Island's economy.  Heavy industry moved away from Victoria and the other customers found it cheaper and more efficient to ship by truck.  But those really were just the final nails in the coffin.  The railway industry on the Island had been in decline since the 1960s.  Back in the 1970s, everyone jumped all over CP Rail and painted them as the bad guys because of the way they ran the Dayliner, but we never really appreciated how hard they were working to maintain railway service to their customers in the face of economic trends that were beyond their control.  It was a similar story, I'm sure, for CN on the Island.  For better or worse, the Island's economy and Victoria's economy have moved on.  As a result, Victoria seems like such a sanitized place compared to what it was in the 60s and 70s, somehow less real and lacking the grit and character that made it such an interesting place to grow up in.  Whenever I visit these days, I feel like I've arrived in something that is a cross between a giant retirement home and an environmental Disneyland.  
 
Oh well, end of nostalgic rant.  I will now turn off grumpy old man mode!
 
Quote:
I'm thinking maybe my memory could be wrong, and the culvert was repaired, because I do remember walking up there with friends on a camping trip in the summer of 79, and when I think of it, a washed out culvert near Leechtown isn't part of my memories.

Thanks Jamie, for that confirmation.  I do know that CN was actively maintaining the line to Leechtown right up to the end.  When we were running there, we would see brand new ties along the right of way, date-stamped 1979.  They would have had to have fixed the washout in order to run the power round the train whenever they came down to Leechtown.


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Jamie_Masters
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Re: CN pics
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« Reply #461 on: Feb 27th, 2016, 12:45pm »
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May 19, 1991, mile 27.8 Cowichan Subdivision [Photo by Jamie Masters ]
A sad sight indeed, the rails being readied for removal by the Sooke River Railway. on Feb 27th, 2016, 3:26am, emilydm wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I'd just like to say for the record how much it broke my heart going out to Milnes' Landing in June 1994 to find the rails ripped out and lying alongside the ties. I knew Sooke River Railway's lease was up and the push was on to complete the Galloping Goose out to Leechtown for cyclists and pedestrians, but that was still an end of an era. I still kick myself for not going on a speeder ride like I'd always wanted to when I first discovered that remaining section of track in the mid-eighties.



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Dayliner
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #462 on: Feb 27th, 2016, 12:47pm »
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Sad indeed--used to have so much fun up there!

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cycledude
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #463 on: Feb 28th, 2016, 7:27pm »
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Another masterful photo, Jamie. MP27.8 is approximately at the 46km marker along the Galloping Goose Trail today.

« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2016, 10:39pm by cycledude » Logged
CPRail4744
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Re: CN pics
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« Reply #464 on: Feb 28th, 2016, 8:03pm »
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"...A cross between a giant retirement home and an environmental Disneyland"
 
Dayliner, you win the "quote of the year" award.   Could not have said it better myself.
 
Jamie, I hope you don't mind me hijacking your photo and playing with it a little bit.
I can take it down if you would rather.


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Matt Arnott, Kamloops, B.C.

"I would prefer to see it shipped by train..."
Jamie_Masters
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #465 on: Feb 28th, 2016, 9:44pm »
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No problem Matt, the 'End of Days' look, suits the photo very well

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Dayliner
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #466 on: Feb 29th, 2016, 10:18pm »
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Quote:
Dayliner, you win the "quote of the year" award.   Could not have said it better myself.

 
It may be a little premature to hand out that "quote of the year award"--we're only at the end of February!  But I appreciate the nomination!


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Jamie_Masters
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Re: CN pics
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« Reply #467 on: Mar 16th, 2016, 1:06am »
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January 5, 1990, CN's Saanich Spur  [Photo by Jamie Masters ]
The CNR brakeman is preparing to couple onto the last grain cars ever shipped  
to Borden Mercantile's feed mill in Saanich. The empties will be taken back to the CP/CN
interchange, and service on the last remaining CN Island trackage, is done forever.
[ BTW, those are CHEK TV cameramen who were recording some of the action during the last run ]


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« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2016, 1:08am by Jamie_Masters » Logged
alanlill
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #468 on: Jul 20th, 2016, 1:27am »
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Hi Jamie et al
With the trains to and from Victoria operating essentially as a turn out of Deerholme beginning on April 24 1960, did CN still maintain a switcher at Point Ellice in addition to the road engine operating between Deerholme and Victoria?  (I am not sure if 74 was still there in 1960? There wasn't a lot of time allowed in Victoria on the ETT, and local industries and the Canora still needed to be switched.)   Was the roundhouse gone by April 24, 1960? Does anyone have any photos from 1960? Thanks for any help on this. Al Lill
 
on Jan 19th, 2015, 12:57am, Jamie_Masters wrote:       (Click here for original message)
CNR Employee timetable, April, 24, 1960 [Collection of Jamie Masters ]
Cowichan Subdivision
 
Notice, no more Train 585 or 586,and trains start and finish their days at Deerholme.



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Jamie_Masters
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #469 on: Jul 24th, 2016, 1:06pm »
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Hi, Al,
The roundhouse and shops were torn down Dec 19th, 1962. Those small General Electric switchers were still working in Victoria in the early sixties. After that, larger switchers took over the job, lots of local switching to be done in the yard or Ogden Point, or the trackage leading out to mile 1.6 and the Saanich Spur. Victoria City Archives have some interesting photos from 1960, showing Point Ellice Yard trackage.  
 
   Jamie  
 
        quote author=alanlill link=board=Vancouver;num=1077604803;start=460#468 date=07/20/16 at 01:27:56]Hi Jamie et al
With the trains to and from Victoria operating essentially as a turn out of Deerholme beginning on April 24 1960, did CN still maintain a switcher at Point Ellice in addition to the road engine operating between Deerholme and Victoria?  (I am not sure if 74 was still there in 1960? There wasn't a lot of time allowed in Victoria on the ETT, and local industries and the Canora still needed to be switched.)   Was the roundhouse gone by April 24, 1960? Does anyone have any photos from 1960? Thanks for any help on this. Al Lill
 
[/quote]


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alanlill
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #470 on: Jul 24th, 2016, 5:56pm »
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Thanks for the info Jamie. Since I posted I did find a picture of the 80 ton CNR 74 switching at Victoria in May 1960. It had the round CNR monogram by then.  
 
I got the emails below about industrial switching a few years later But I would like to know what the industry names were circa 1950 to 1960 for Kingham Coal and Oil,  MacDonald Bakery MP 1.75, Johnston Terminals (Heany?), Winery on PB Spur, Borden Mercantile and whether any other industries existed back then on CN between Point Ellice and E and N interchange (e.g a scrap yard and propane dealer.) The cedar shake mill next to ferry slip shows in a 1954 aerial photo but what was it called back then? (Smith in 1970s)
 
I would like this info for both personal modelling and for an upcoming article in CN LINES. I have yard plans, plans for roundhouse and plans for ferry slip and would also like to get a plan of the draw span over Selkirk waterway.  
 
The earliest photos that I ever took were in 1970 so the ones on this site have been very helpful along with others I have got previously.  
 
Thanks for any help!  Cheers Al Lill
 
Point Ellice Notes from Leslie
                    Try to relate what I can remember of my switching days at Pt. Ellice yard. I worked there on a relief basis from 1973 to the early 80,s.   The job was monday to friday 0700 start.  Smith Cedar products had two spurs, one for shakes and one for shingles.  They preferred the 40 ft double door autos, some with green doors for loading.  I do recall spotting a UP empty that came from CP that came from Island tug and barge that came from Seattle.   Up that way towards the CP interchange was a scrapyard, outbound gondoal loads of scrap, a propane unloading spur, and a spur for Allan Paper stock, outbound loads of baled cardboard.  This was possibly the last new spur built for a customer in Victoria.  Kingham Gillespie were coal merchants who had a yard on the high line.  They had a single spur with a pit for cross hoppers and a platform for class D boxes of large lump coal.  Coal came from some where in Alberta.  The BCFP mill shipped dimension timbers and double dressed lumber, timbers on 50 ft flats, lumber in 40 ft boxes, this business was split between CN and CP.  The plywood plant had two spurs, one for outbound plywood, and the other for inbound veneer.  The veneer used to come from Youbou but had gone to trucks by my time.  The plywood business seemed to be exclusively CN.  They preferred better quality boxes, some with plugdoors and often 50 ft.  Alpha st had a spur that customers occasionally use for unloading boxes.  Next up was Johnston Terminals that took inbound lcl loads that I am told was from CN, some times as many as four or five a day.  The place that took loads of flour was I believe called Ellison Flour and Feed.  These loads were in pressure unloading tank cars.  Last up on the Lake Hill spur was Borden Mercantile,  they received inbound feed grain etc. in goverment hoppers, probably boxcars before that.  Also there on Quadra st was Growers Winery.  They no longer used rail in my time but did at receive in bottles by CP cars and outbound CN reefers of presumably wine.                                  Another CN customer was Victoria Plywood in Esquimalt on the Eand N.  They would order in 40 ft boxes for loading.  Interchanged to CP, then loaded, then loaded, then back to CN for outbound movement.                            Operations in the 70,s usually a daily barge arrive from Tilbury via Ogden Point at around 1000.   Unload and reload by noon then any late spots and pulls, finish by 1300.  The barge sometimes stopped at Ogden pt on the way out as well.  The ship was always the Seaspan Greg formally the Greg Yorke, supplemented by barges 109,107.            We discussed the Rocky point business.  This was ammunition for DND both in and out.  Discussion with Victoria friends mention an A frame at Metchosin Siding, log loading?.  A car observed being loaded at Saseenos with shakes.  Sooke Forest Products did not seem to do business with CN at least not in Sooke.  They did truck lumber to Ogden Pt. though.  Hope this helps with your research and good luck with your article.                          Regards, Leslie
 
Hi Al
 
Yes, this is great stuff!
 
I'm able to confirm a few things from my own sources and everything he says about those items is right on.
 
I used to enjoy watching operations at that scrap yard in the early 60s, the highlight for me of family visits from Comox to the Princess Mary Restaurant. They loaded the gondolas there with an electromagnetic crane.
 
The coal dealer was a source of heat for me for a number of years. They had boards of some kind of white wood (maybe cottonwood?) that they gave to me to get rid of them. These had been used to close up the doorways of boxcars carrying lump coal and were fairly black and impregnated with coal dust. Burned nice and hot in my little airtight wood stove!
 
Johnston Terminals was known in my youth as Heaney's Transport or something like that. They seemed to be the biggest moving and transfer outfit in town, and their slogan, "Big or teeny, just call Heaney!" was seen all around, including painted on older brick buildings.
 
In 1970 I worked as field supervisor on a loganberry farm that supplied the winery on Quadra Street. I loaded 45 gal drums of berries onto trucks at the farm, and they were taken to the winery. The father of a high school friend was the manager of the winery so I got to see a bit of that end of the operation from a different perspective! I remember it as St Michel Wines but that may have been the company my friend's dad worked for rather than the name of that particular facility.
 
I remember seeing rail cars and big vessels (tanks) at the VMD plant on Bay Street. Their ground level was well below Bay Street and I always assumed they had barge service for railcars but never saw it happen. I wonder if Leslie means that the cars were prepared at Pt Ellice and then barged across the harbour to VMD? If so I wonder whether this was a stop on the run to Tilbury or whether a local barge was used?
 
His description of the route and sequence for the Greg Yorke agrees with what we found during the research for the Ogden Point article. He is also in agreement with that research where he mentions lumber being trucked from Sooke Forest Products to Ogden Point.
 
Hope that's helpful
Doug
 


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Jamie_Masters
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #471 on: Jul 25th, 2016, 1:14am »
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Great stuff from Leslie and Doug , Al, just love that kind of info about the CN's  
activities around Victoria in the Sixties and Seventies. Amazing how much rail activity  
went on in Victoria in those days.


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Jamie_Masters
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Re: CN pics
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« Reply #472 on: Nov 27th, 2016, 12:20pm »
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Jan 5, 1990, CN's Saanich Spur [Photo by Jamie Masters]
 
With Mt Doug in the background, the brakeman has lined the switch for the CN GMD1 1070 to pick up the last two empties from Borden Mercantile's feed mill. With this last revenue move, CN's 75 year history on the Island has almost come to an end.


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Lfire83
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #473 on: Nov 27th, 2016, 7:39pm »
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Great thread, love the old GMD-1s and industrial spur action. I remember back around 2008 or so I had a call out to Ontario working for a railroad contractor and on the way through Sault Ste Marie saw what I thought at the time had to be a custom build CN locomotive. Turned out it was the first and only GMD-1 I've ever seen.

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MinionII
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #474 on: Nov 30th, 2016, 12:26am »
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Has anyone got a shot of the end-of-track past Borden's? I'm curious how close to McKenzie the tracks went toward the end of service. I did see I pic of a gondola load of metal (probably in this thread somewhere) with a view over to what is now the Saanich Municiple Yard, so the track must have come close to McKenzie. And of course there had to be room for a loco and what, 2 hoppers max?
 
Thanks,
AP


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emilydm
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Re: CN pics
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« Reply #475 on: Nov 30th, 2016, 11:22pm »
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From this picture from a photographic essay of the line on a thread elsewhere on this board (which I'm unable to find), plus extrapolation from Google Earth: the line appears to have gone about 440 feet past the Borden switch, about 170 feet shy of McKenzie. The Borden spur itself looks to have been at least 170 feet long, possibly as long as 300 feet, enough to fit at least three or as many as five cars. (It went up to what is now the Bottle Depot, and judging from the loading doors in the back it may have paralleled its entire length - iirc that used to be the original Borden Mercantile building.)

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Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

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« Reply #476 on: Dec 1st, 2016, 8:39pm »
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on Nov 30th, 2016, 11:22pm, emilydm wrote:       (Click here for original message)
From this picture from a photographic essay of the line on a thread elsewhere on this board (which I'm unable to find), plus extrapolation from Google Earth: the line appears to have gone about 440 feet past the Borden switch, about 170 feet shy of McKenzie. The Borden spur itself looks to have been at least 170 feet long, possibly as long as 300 feet, enough to fit at least three or as many as five cars. (It went up to what is now the Bottle Depot, and judging from the loading doors in the back it may have paralleled its entire length - iirc that used to be the original Borden Mercantile building.)

The CNR ran all the way out to Sidney and also to behind the current airport at Patricia Bay. As an aside if you look at the CNR system map in the two peninsulas you will see the area I feel would be a great commuter route for the start of a rail commute from Sidney and Sooke in to Victoria. Run the train through about 100,000 people or through maybe 40,000 people with a mountain in between and guess which will produce more bums in seats.



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MinionII
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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #477 on: Dec 2nd, 2016, 1:07am »
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on Nov 30th, 2016, 11:22pm, emilydm wrote:       (Click here for original message)
From this picture from a photographic essay of the line on a thread elsewhere on this board (which I'm unable to find), plus extrapolation from Google Earth: the line appears to have gone about 440 feet past the Borden switch, about 170 feet shy of McKenzie. The Borden spur itself looks to have been at least 170 feet long, possibly as long as 300 feet, enough to fit at least three or as many as five cars. (It went up to what is now the Bottle Depot, and judging from the loading doors in the back it may have paralleled its entire length - iirc that used to be the original Borden Mercantile building.)

 
Wow that's some great information Emily, thanks!
 
I've never seen any good images of the Borden's spur, and assumed it was much shorter and just curved around the raised platform on the inside of the curve. I didn't realize it extended behind the bottle depot; I'll have to poke around back there when I get the chance.
 
Now someone needs to produce good picks of the spur.  
 
 
Denis, what year is that map from? It doesn't show the E&N Lake Cowichan sub...and was that bit of track leading into Sidney built by the V&S? And added to the CN system when the V&S disappeared?


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Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

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Re: CN pics
 
« Reply #478 on: Dec 2nd, 2016, 12:55pm »
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I have no idea when that map was drawn. It was something I had on my computer. But it does say "CNR Map" so the lake Cow Sub may have been purposely left off.  
 
The V & S still lives on in Central Saanich as Vananess Rd.  
 
The old Interurban Line is still in use as a trail that follows Central Saanich Rd.  
<https://www.google.ca/maps/@48.5205888,-123.4267806,516m/data=!3m1!1e3>
You may have to cut and paste the whole thing into your browser.  
 
There are lots of possibilities for commuter rail in the CRD if people quit pushing the old E & N route.


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emilydm
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Re: CN pics
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« Reply #479 on: Dec 2nd, 2016, 11:46pm »
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I did some research and math, and a GMD1 (55 feet) and six grain hoppers (58 feet each between couplers, three pulled off the spur and three ready to spot) is 403 feet, giving them 37 feet of wiggle room, give or take. If they needed any more than that, they'd have to do some creative car juggling, pulling empties out one or two at a time.
 
From the same thread, here's the only clear picture of the spur that was posted.


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