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The KEY System and BART
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   The KEY System and BART
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   Author  Topic: The KEY System and BART  (Read 763 times)
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #60 on: Jun 5th, 2016, 12:56am »
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on Jun 5th, 2016, 12:10am, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I came across a video put out by the Northwestern Pacific Railroad Historical Society (NWPRRHS), that showcases some old "home movies" that were taken by Mr. Robert Ellison between 1940 and 1948.  It's an eclectic mix, but shows (tantalizingly short) glimpses of the Northwestern Pacific, Sacramento Northern, KEY System, East Bay Transit, and even a few lines farther afield, like the California Western and the Yosemite Valley.  This 15-minute excerpt is taken from the full video which runs nearly an hour and a half.  Might be worth tracking down . . .
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVkSV-F_hu8

 
 
Regards,
 
Norm

 
Norm:
 
The NWP's electric system has been gone so long now, that few rail buffs (except those heavily into traction history) know it even existed.
 
Despite the valiant efforts of numerous commuter groups, the last NWP electrics made their final runs on a dreary day in 1941; the connecting ferryboats (also operated by the NWP) also were shut down.
 
Electric operation began in 1903, using wooden open platform cars; between 1929 and 1930, 19 steel MU's (motors and trailers) were purchased.
 
These cars later went to the PE and became "Blimps" (PE converted the trailers into motors)
 
A number of the ancient wooden cars remained in service right up until all electric commuter service ended in 1941.
 
Both the wooden and steel cars were equipped with OHMER-style fare registers, a series of rods that were mounted to a register above the seats.
 
By 1938, despite still-heavy rush hour loads, the NWP was losing $200,000 annually on the operation of its third rail trains and sidewheel ferryboats.
 
With the exception of special school trips, electric service to Mill Valley ended in 1940, a year before the entire electric network shut down.
 
The handsome paddlewheel ferryboats (such as the "'TAMALPAIS" , "SAN PABLO", 'CAZADERO", "EUREKA", and "SAUSALITIO") were commodius and picturesque, and provided commuters with a bracing ride across the Bay to the Ferry Building.
 
However, they were very labor-intensive craft, thus very expensive to operate.
 
After NWP service ended, the "EUREKA" went over to the SP, to connect with mainline trains at Oakland Mole ("Red Electric" commuter train service to Oakland Mole ended in 1939, when the new Bridge Railway opened)
 
She operated until 1957, when mechanical problems forced the grand old vessel into retirement.
 
She still exists today, permanantly moored at the long-disused "Golden Gate" vehicular ferry slip, at what is now the San Francisco Maritime Museum.
 
After the electrics made their last runs, former NWP commuters began riding into SF via new GREYHOUND Yellow Coach buses, or driving to their jobs in their own automobiles.
 
It would be interesting indeed to see what commutation would be like for Marin commuters who now reside in former NWP territory, had the line somehow beaten the odds and survived into recent years.
 
Alas, we'll never know......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2016, 8:13am by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #61 on: Jun 5th, 2016, 1:29am »
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Here are two photos of PE's "Blimps", when they were still providing commuter service out of Sausalito on the NWP.
 
Note both the third rail and the sliding mesh vestibule gates on the cars.....
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/odds/ca/htm/nwp02.htm
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/odds/ca/htm/nwp04.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)


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LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #62 on: Jun 5th, 2016, 11:43pm »
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"TRAFFIC ENGINEERS VS. TRANSIT PATRONS" (Key System)
 
Interesting, detailed reading, along with maps, photos, and diagrams......
 
http://www.trainweb.org/mts/ctc/ctc03.html
 
(courtesy: trainweb.org)


« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2016, 11:48pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #63 on: Jun 6th, 2016, 12:01am »
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All:
 
Just came across this drawing of a proposed articulated trainset for the KEY, dating from 1933.
 
The overall general profile of this unit reminds me somewhat of the old Broad St. (Philadelphia) cars, especially the "Bridge Cars" of the 1930's, had they been articulated........
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/5449244652
 
(courtesy: Eric Fischer)
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2016, 12:59am by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #64 on: Jun 6th, 2016, 1:08am »
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"HIGH SPEED TRAINS ON THE BAY BRIDGE".......
 
http://www.therealmrscience.net/high-speed-trains.html
 
(courtesy: therealmrscience.net)


« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2016, 1:09am by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #65 on: Jun 6th, 2016, 10:38pm »
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This eastern "Bridge Railway", still operating today, could have been the KEY, had the system been retained, modernized, and upgraded......
 
http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/patco.html
 
(courtesy: trainweb.org)
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/PATCO_High-Speed_Line
 
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2016, 10:45pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #66 on: Jun 6th, 2016, 10:48pm »
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See also.......
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/showpix?nsta=534610
 
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2016, 10:49pm by CLASSB » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #67 on: Jun 6th, 2016, 11:34pm »
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on Jun 6th, 2016, 10:38pm, LOCAL F LINE wrote:       (Click here for original message)
This eastern "Bridge Railway", still operating today, could have been the KEY, had the system been retained, modernized, and upgraded......
 
http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/patco.html
 
(courtesy: trainweb.org)
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/PATCO_High-Speed_Line
 
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

 
Those are nice looking units, and I could easily see the KEY System using these, if it were still around today.
 
On a (seeming) tangent, I heard just today that, in the country of Norway, they are seriously considering an outright ban on the sale of gasoline-powered automobiles by 2025.  If this is a serious idea and it spreads, we may be glad we're rebuilding our urban transit systems.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #68 on: Jun 6th, 2016, 11:43pm »
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on Jun 6th, 2016, 11:34pm, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Those are nice looking units, and I could easily see the KEY System using these, if it were still around today.
 
On a (seeming) tangent, I heard just today that, in the country of Norway, they are seriously considering an outright ban on the sale of gasoline-powered automobiles by 2025.  If this is a serious idea and it spreads, we may be glad we're rebuilding our urban transit systems.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm

 
Norm:
 
Recall the old saying: "everything old is new again"?
 
IMHO, this truly pertains to electric rail transit; "streetcars" were once deemed by the progressive forces as to be "old fashioned", "antiquated", and "outmoded".
 
BUT......all that needed to be do be done was to re-christen the streetcar "Light Rail Vehicle".....and VOILA!
 
Suddenly, "streetcars" and electric rail transport were in style again!
 
Just imagine if the old "North Shore" system out of Chicago had not been foolishly scrapped in 1963; here was a high-speed, heavy duty electric system that certainly could still be carrying commuters today, with new, upgraded equipment.
 
Man, just imagine modern versions of the classic "Electroliners", slamming through local stations at 90 MPH.......dang!!!!
 
And so it goes.....
 
 
'L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2016, 11:46pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #69 on: Jun 7th, 2016, 7:13pm »
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All:
 
An interesting excerpt from Harre Demoro's "ELECTRIC RAILWAY PIONEER" (the story of the NWP electric lines):
 
".......the Golden Gate Bridge had provisions in its inititial design for electric rail service, and engineers envisioned lightweight cars similar to the new BMT lightweight elevated cars then entering service in Brooklyn......but the redesign of the bridge in the 1950's, following a severe wind storm, raised fears about the ability of the span to accommodate heavier loads....."
 
".......in  later years, this was a key factor in in the Bridge Board's refusal to allow Bay Area Rapid Transit trains (BART) to be placed beneath the main roadways...."
 
L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2016, 12:04am by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #70 on: Jun 8th, 2016, 12:31am »
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Several views of BMT's experimental lightweight cars of the 1930's; imagine if modern lightweight bridge trains for Bay area service had been inspired by these sleek units, and adapted for San Francisco services......
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75915
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?46944
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26406
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26678
 
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


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Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #71 on: Jun 8th, 2016, 3:42pm »
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on Jun 7th, 2016, 7:13pm, LOCAL F LINE wrote:       (Click here for original message)
All:
 
An interesting excerpt from Harre Demoro's "ELECTRIC RAILWAY PIONEER" (the story of the NWP electric lines):
 
".......the Golden Gate Bridge had provisions in its inititial design for electric rail service, and engineers envisioned lightweight cars similar to the new BMT lightweight elevated cars then entering service in Brooklyn......but the redesign of the bridge in the 1950's, following a severe wind storm, raised fears about the ability of the span to accommodate heavier loads....."
 
".......in  later years, this was a key factor in in the Bridge Board's refusal to allow Bay Area Rapid Transit trains (BART) to be placed beneath the main roadways...."
 
L.F.L."

 
In hindsight, perhaps that's wise, in a way.  I'm sure you recall the news footage of what happened to the Bay Bridge in the 1989 earthquake-- if there had been the added weight of a "bridge train" on that section, the headlines may have been more unnerving.  As it is, the BART tubes (not laid in the water, but in the sediment beneath the water-- and alongside, not under, the bridge) have built-in flexibility and withstood the temblor very well.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #72 on: Jun 8th, 2016, 4:14pm »
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on Jun 8th, 2016, 3:42pm, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
In hindsight, perhaps that's wise, in a way.  I'm sure you recall the news footage of what happened to the Bay Bridge in the 1989 earthquake-- if there had been the added weight of a "bridge train" on that section, the headlines may have been more unnerving.  As it is, the BART tubes (not laid in the water, but in the sediment beneath the water-- and alongside, not under, the bridge) have built-in flexibility and withstood the tremor very well.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm

 
 
Norm:
 
A very good point!
 
I do well recall seeing news footage of the damage to the Bay Bridge, and still remember seeing a bus on the bridge (lower level?) just feet away from where the roadway had collapsed, hundreds of feet above the Bay.....that might have been a Bridge Train in that same "a hair away from death" position!
 
Too, there would have been the additional risk of fire, had Bridge Trains still been operating, stemming from downed catenary and/or broken third rails on the lower level roadway..
 
That the BART transbay tubes were built with that "in built flexibility", I am sure, was more than a godsend during that quake.
 
I do think it was a "no brainer" so to speak, when the Transbay tubes were designed and built to be flexible in times of earth tremors....certainly, this was NOT a new subway tube under the East River from Manhattan to Brooklyn or Queens....that foresight, indeed, MORE than paid off in 1989.....
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2016, 5:09pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #73 on: Jun 9th, 2016, 12:48am »
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BART and the Loma Prieta earthquake (1989)
 
http://www.bart.gov/marketing/25-years-after-Loma-Prieta-quake
 
(courtesy: bart.gov)


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LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #74 on: Jun 9th, 2016, 12:55am »
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See also:
 
http://articles.latimes.com/1989-10-18/news/mn-167_1_bay-area
 
(note mentioning BART's crossing several earthquake faults along its routes)
 
(courtesy: latimes.com)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transbay_Tube


« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2016, 1:00am by CLASSB » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #75 on: Jun 9th, 2016, 4:37pm »
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on Jun 9th, 2016, 12:48am, LOCAL F LINE wrote:       (Click here for original message)
BART and the Loma Prieta earthquake (1989)
 
http://www.bart.gov/marketing/25-years-after-Loma-Prieta-quake
 
(courtesy: bart.gov)

 
Thank you for this.  This is a wonderful article, and enthralling reading.


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LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #76 on: Jun 9th, 2016, 4:58pm »
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on Jun 9th, 2016, 4:37pm, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Thank you for this.  This is a wonderful article, and enthralling reading.

 
 
Norm:
 
You are welcome, my friend!
 
It IS a riveting read, and is also a throwback to an era not all that long ago, where cell phones and the internet were still in the future, and the "traditional", conventional land-line telephones were still the true backbone of communications.
 
Too, it also gives us a fascinating "behind the scenes" look at a major urban rapid transit system in the aftermath of a major natural disaster....
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2016, 5:00pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #77 on: Jun 9th, 2016, 6:29pm »
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BART's concrete supports for elevated trackage are also clearly evident in the systems since built in both Baltimore and Atlanta......
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?19723
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?19626
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?128063
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?21663
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?21856
 
 
 
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2016, 6:29pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #78 on: Jun 10th, 2016, 11:27pm »
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One of the most interesting and unorthodox operations of the old KEY System was the Richmond Shipyard Railway, which operated during WW2.
 
For this wartime service, the KEY purchased a number of ancient, wooden-bodied ex-New York City 2nd Avenue "El" cars; the KEY outfitted elderly these cars with pantographs and end steps (for street loading).
 
Without a doubt, this was easily kEY's most unusual operation; as seen here, an unsuspecting motorist might have easily been more than a little shocked to see a train of old New York elevated cars trundling down the street.......
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key025.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)


« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2016, 11:29pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #79 on: Jun 10th, 2016, 11:32pm »
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See also.....
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key064.htm
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key065.htm
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key066.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)


« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2016, 11:34pm by CLASSB » Logged
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