Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Oct 20th, 2017, 9:10pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


The KEY System and BART
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Transit and Commuter
   General Subway, Transit and Commuter
(Moderators: NYC_Subway_Fan, ge_genesis, )
   The KEY System and BART
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: The KEY System and BART  (Read 753 times)
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #40 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 1:48pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

In this 2004 photo, you can easily see how the newer BART car's design differed markedly from the original "shovel nosed" cars of the 70's.
 
A modern-day successor to the old KEY trains......
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?10070
 
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
 


« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2016, 4:55pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #41 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 4:54pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

BART's "new look" for the 21st century......
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?143683


Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #42 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 5:26pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jun 3rd, 2016, 4:54pm, LOCAL F LINE wrote:       (Click here for original message)
BART's "new look" for the 21st century......
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?143683

 
Nostalgia is a powerful thing.  My only experience with BART was back when the "shovel-noses" were all they had, and I still find them aesthetically superior to anything they have adopted since.  (I feel the same way about F-units, too, so there you go . . .)
 
But this unit reminds me of something you'd see on Thomas And Friends.
 
 
An old curmudgeon who's prepared to be outvoted,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2016, 5:27pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #43 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 6:03pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

on Jun 3rd, 2016, 5:26pm, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Nostalgia is a powerful thing.  My only experience with BART was back when the "shovel-noses" were all they had, and I still find them aesthetically superior to anything they have adopted since.  (I feel the same way about F-units, too, so there you go . . .)
 
But this unit reminds me of something you'd see on Thomas And Friends.
 
 
An old curmudgeon who's prepared to be outvoted,
 
Norm

 
Norm:
 
"......once upon a time, on the Island of Sodor, Sir Topham Hatt had an important announcement for Thomas and his friends. 'A Very Important Visitor is coming to Sodor for a visit next week. His name is Bart, and he's coming all the way from California to see us!'........... "    
 
My biggest gripe with today's hi-tech rapid transit cars (at least those in the NY area), is that they have totally dispensed with the time-honored "railfan window", preventing would-be motormen (such as yours truly) from enjoying the rails in the most exciting fashion available to passengers.
 
I'm all for traditional roller curtains instead of LED displays, and motormen's cabs that look like MOTORMAN's CABS....and NOT the bridge of the StarShip Enterprise!
 
But, realistically, time and progress must march on....but I sure am dang glad for all of my many great memories of the rails as they once were......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2016, 6:15pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #44 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 9:15pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

On an interesting note, when a number of the ex-KEY "Bridge Units" went to the Ferrocarril General Urquiza for suburban service out of Buenos Aires, they found themselves in the company of some ex-PE cars (1100's/"Valley Sevens")
 
The-ex PE cars had train doors cut into their ends, emblazoned with warning stripes.
 
The ex-KEY and ex-PE cars all operated off of third rail, but carried trolley poles to obtain power when in the yards.......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2016, 9:15pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #45 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 9:27pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

In 1963, we see several ex-KEY "Bridge Units" awaiting the call to duty in the yards at Buenos Aires, far, far removed from the Bay Area.
 
Note both third rail and trolley wire here; the cars are still wearing their old colors.....
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key041.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix.com)


« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2016, 9:28pm by CLASSB » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #46 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 9:34pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jun 3rd, 2016, 6:03pm, LOCAL F LINE wrote:       (Click here for original message)

I'm all for traditional roller curtains instead of LED displays . . .

 
As a now-retired transit bus operator, I remember the relief we felt when roller curtains were replaced with LEDs on our destination signs.  Turning the cranks was a good upper body workout, but changing all the signs over from, say, Route 2B to Route 94S could easily eat up most of a layover at the end of the line.  Pushing a four-button code was a lot easier . . .
 
But, yes, from a purely aesthetic standpoint, it does feel like we've lost something in our eagerness to digitize.
 
 
Regards,
 
Normm


« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2016, 9:36pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #47 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 10:47pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

on Jun 3rd, 2016, 9:34pm, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
As a now-retired transit bus operator, I remember the relief we felt when roller curtains were replaced with LEDs on our destination signs.  Turning the cranks was a good upper body workout, but changing all the signs over from, say, Route 2B to Route 94S could easily eat up most of a layover at the end of the line.  Pushing a four-button code was a lot easier . . .
 
But, yes, from a purely aesthetic standpoint, it does feel like we've lost something in our eagerness to digitize.
 
Regards,
 
Normm

 
Norm:
 
I know from what I've read that there can be a number of problems on the NYC subways, when a car whose panel map is programmed for a designated line, is switched over to another route, say a car usually assigned to the IRT Lexington Avenue line being switched to a train that's operating on the 7th Avenue line.
 
IMHO, the old roller curtains were much easier to read, especially out in the daylight, where sun glare can often make it difficult to read the LED signs.
 
Of course, both cloth and mylar roller curtains could (and did) snag and tear, rendering the sign unreadable (or, at least, incorrect)
 
The old KEY "Bridge Units" had roller curtains; SP's "Red Electrics" (later to the PE) carried metal discs up front to show the route number, as well as a small roller curtain box.
 
The NWP steel cars (which also later went to the PE) carried metal SP-style discs up front; the older, open platform wood NWP cars carried rectangular metal destination plates on their end railings......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2016, 12:46am by CLASSB » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #48 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 12:49am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

L.F.L.,
 
I truly sympathize with the frustrations involved when "new, improved" mechanical devices get too clever by half.  When I drove the city bus, we were required to announce all major intersections and transfer points (it was a matter of ADA compliance).  Just as I was retiring, they began installing "automatic" annunciators, controlled by GPS sensors.  They are supposed to make the operator's job easier, but I cannot help but think that replacing a live human voice with a recording somehow diminishes the social fabric.  Also, occasionally, one of those things would get a good case of "wanderlust," and begin announcing streets that were not even on the assigned route!  It's been a while since I've ridden the system-- I wonder if they still use these things, or if they've chalked it up to another idea that didn't quite pan out?
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #49 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 12:50am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Not long before all KEY and SN trains would be re-routed over the Bay Bridge and into the new Transbay Terminal, we see a train of sleek "Bridge Units" approaching the ferry terminal, where commuters will make a quick and convenient transfer to San Francisco ferryboats.
 
The Bay Bridge looms ominously in the background.
 
Until the great fire of 1933, which destroyed the original 1903 terminal, a stub remaining of the original trestle was used to store trains between runs, just beyond the train sheds.......
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key106.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)


« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2016, 12:52am by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #50 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 12:57am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Like the "Bridge Railway" and its colorful parade of crowded MU trains, the once-bustling and handsome Transbay Terminal itself is now but a memory.....
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Transbay_Terminal


Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #51 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 1:01am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Memories and recollections of the old Transbay Terminal (be sure to check out the historical photo gallery!)
 
http://transbaycenter.org/project/terminal-history/memories-of-the-transbay-terminal
 
(courtesy: Transbay Transit Center)


« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2016, 1:26am by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #52 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 8:15am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

In 1945, the KEY trains carried nearly 27 million riders; by 1957, however (the last full year of rail service), ridership had drastically dropped to just 5.2 million, only 15% of the 1945 total.
 
In 1946, two transbay lines were abandoned, the "A-1" and "K" lines.
 
"Retrench" and "defer" were the bywords of the KEY by the 1950's; by 1956, nearly half of the 88 "Bridge Unit" fleet had been withdrawn from sercice.
 
The State of California stated that it wanted the tracks on the BB removed for addition traffic lanes, and this conversion would cost the KEY nothing.
 
The KEY found more allies in the many local politicians (as well as most of the Bay-area press) who sought to abandon the remaining electric rail lines.
 
The remaining trains were replaced in 1958 by 21 new GMC diesel buses, along with 60 older gas-powered WHITES........
 
"L.F.L."
 
(source: "THE KEY SYSTEM", by Walter Rice and Emiliano Echevarria)


« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2016, 8:19am by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #53 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 5:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Here's a "Bridge Unit" on the "A" line rumbling down a street in Oakland, sometime during the last decade of operation; with "road rage", sadly, so commonplace these days, one does not want to contemplate what an irate, impatient motorist might do if he encountered a train of these ponderous electrical monsters swaying down the street.....
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key056.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)


« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2016, 5:06pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #54 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 7:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

One of the KEY's handsome "Apartment House Fives" at rest between runs, sometime during the 1930's.
 
Looking every inch a classic wooden interurban, these cars were gone by the late 30's; many of their components, however, went into the first batch of "Bridge Units".
 
Also, note the unusual low-profile sliding mesh vestibule gates; the SP "Red Electrics" and the NWP steel MU's also had vestibule gates, but these were of the high variety.......
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key050.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)


Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #55 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 8:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jun 4th, 2016, 5:04pm, LOCAL F LINE wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Here's a "Bridge Unit" on the "A" line rumbling down a street in Oakland, sometime during the last decade of operation; with "road rage", sadly, so commonplace these days, one does not want to contemplate what an irate, impatient motorist might do if he encountered a train of these ponderous electrical monsters swaying down the street.....
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key056.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

 
Maybe a variation on the old bumper sticker . . .
 
Drive Defensively - -  Buy A Bridge Unit !  


Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #56 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 8:50pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Norm:
 
Sounds like a good idea to me!
 
I've seen a number of old KEY photos showing lengthy trains of those beefy "Bridge Units" trundling down crowded city streets.....indeed, their presence was VERY commanding amid the lowly motor vehicles, you may be sure!
 
There is a late 30's photo in Frank Rowsome's "TROLLEY CAR TREASURY", showing a long (and crowded!) SN train winding its way through a city street, to the chagrin of the motorists caught in the path of this sinewy electric centipede.
 
The caption reads: "....encountering an interurban train as it wended along a city street could both startle and frustrate an impatient driver......"
 
'nuff said!
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2016, 11:10pm by CLASSB » Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #57 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 8:54pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

NO disputing WHO really RULES the streets here(!!)
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key059.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)


Logged
LOCAL F LINE
Former Member
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #58 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 8:56pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

No comments are needed with this "Guess who's REALLY in charge?" street scene from long, long ago........(!!!!)
 
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/keysyst/htm/key094.htm
 
(courtesy: newdavesrailpix.com)


« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2016, 11:10pm by CLASSB » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: The KEY System and BART
 
« Reply #59 on: Jun 5th, 2016, 12:10am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I came across a video put out by the Northwestern Pacific Railroad Historical Society (NWPRRHS), that showcases some old "home movies" that were taken by Mr. Robert Ellison between 1940 and 1948.  It's an eclectic mix, but shows (tantalizingly short) glimpses of the Northwestern Pacific, Sacramento Northern, KEY System, East Bay Transit, and even a few lines farther afield, like the California Western and the Yosemite Valley.  This 15-minute excerpt is taken from the full video which runs nearly an hour and a half.  Might be worth tracking down . . .
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVkSV-F_hu8

 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2016, 12:13am by Norm_Anderson » Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »