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Sharon Hill line stations and Charles Carr
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railfan81
TRAINing
Posts: 4
Sharon Hill line stations and Charles Carr
 
« on: Jul 12th, 2008, 1:34pm »
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I am trying to get info about the old Sharon Hill line, which my dad used to ride from Philly to Aldan to visit relatives in the 1940s.
 
A user here suggested that I try this forum.
 
I am looking for photos of the trolleys.
 
Also, my great-grandfather, Charles Carr, built many of the stone structures for trolley lines in that area.  
 
Are there photos on the net of these stone trolley stops, and could we find out which were made by Charles Carr?
 
Any help would be deeply appreciated.
 
best,
Paul Carr
Oregon


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Walt_C
Historian
Posts: 2934
Re: Sharon Hill line stations and Charles Carr
 
« Reply #1 on: Jul 12th, 2008, 2:47pm »
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Two web sites will have photos of the trolleys, www.phillytrolley.org and www.nycsubway.org. These two sites have photos of Red Arrow Lines trolleys, some of which ( the 1923-26 Center Door Cars, and the 1941 Brilliners) would have operated daily on the Sharon Hill Line. Additionally the Ronald DeGraw book The Red Arrow is a complete history of the Red Arrow and its predecessor Philadelphia & West Chester Traction Co. The original ( 1972) edition has the complete history- up to the 1970 take over by SEPTA. There is a later edition which cuts the history off at 1948.

« Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2008, 2:48pm by Walt_C » Logged

Please move to the rear and speed your ride-Regards, Walt
railfan81
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Re: Sharon Hill line stations and Charles Carr
 
« Reply #2 on: Jul 12th, 2008, 7:25pm »
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Thanks, so much Walt.  
 
I will look into the resources that you list.
 
Paul Carr
 
on Jul 12th, 2008, 2:47pm, Walt_C wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Two web sites will have photos of the trolleys, www.phillytrolley.org and www.nycsubway.org. These two sites have photos of Red Arrow Lines trolleys, some of which ( the 1923-26 Center Door Cars, and the 1941 Brilliners) would have operated daily on the Sharon Hill Line. Additionally the Ronald DeGraw book The Red Arrow is a complete history of the Red Arrow and its predecessor Philadelphia & West Chester Traction Co. The original ( 1972) edition has the complete history- up to the 1970 take over by SEPTA. There is a later edition which cuts the history off at 1948.



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Walt_C
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Re: Sharon Hill line stations and Charles Carr
 
« Reply #3 on: Jul 12th, 2008, 8:30pm »
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One other historical note-- It was a Brilliner ( No 7 IIRC) that operated the last revenue trip by the "conventional" trolleys when the present 1981 Kawasaki LRV's took over operation of the Media & Sharon Hill Lines ( SEPTA Routes 101 & 102). Also- you can add the 1932 "80 series" Brill Lightweight Cars ( sometimes referred to as Master Units-- erroneously IMHO) to the roster of cars your father would probably have ridden on the Sharon Hill Line  in the 1940's.

« Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2008, 8:42pm by Walt_C » Logged

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HwyHaulier
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Re: Sharon Hill line stations and Charles Carr
 
« Reply #4 on: Jul 13th, 2008, 10:13am »
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on Jul 12th, 2008, 8:30pm, Walt_C wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...Also- you can add the 1932 "80 series" Brill Lightweight Cars ( sometimes referred to as Master Units-- erroneously IMHO) to the roster of cars your father would probably have ridden on the Sharon Hill Line  in the 1940's...

Walt - Paul -
 
Yep! Concur with your view. Surely, Red Arrow was mightily appreciative of the phenomenon that lightweight cars were stingy in demands  
on power... I recall that around 1960, the PST folks would mention the heavies, notably the Hog Island and Center Door cars, were in the  
...watch your wallet... class on power use... (Bottom line: I don't want to hear of current day fad of ...conserving energy... We had controls
on that when the dinosaurs still roamed free!)
 
We can conjecture, of course, that on receipt of the 80 Class cars, likely they covered many off peak (base hour) schedules. If for no other
reason, they were the latest, new and improved on the lines... (Our local, Baltimore Transit Co. was gleeful on the daily, low cost operating
experiences with its 1930 Baltimore Car units, which had a family heritage with the design of the later 80 Class)...
 
.......................Vern...................
 
 


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Walt_C
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Re: Sharon Hill line stations and Charles Carr
 
« Reply #5 on: Jul 13th, 2008, 4:15pm »
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Vern-- the 80 series cars are given much credit for keeping the P&WCT and then the Red Arrow out of bankruptcy. They were the first one man cars on the system, used much less power than the Center Door Cars, and the older Interurbans still being used, and were much faster than the older cars. In fact, they were so fast that the same schedules could be maintained on all of the routes with one less car than was needed with the older cars.  In a nutshell, the 80 series cars did for the P&WCT what the Bullet Cars did for the P&W. ( And it is interesting to note, that other than appearance and the fact that the Bullets were much faster, and were third rail powered, there were more similarities between the two types than there were differences.)

« Last Edit: Jul 13th, 2008, 4:16pm by Walt_C » Logged

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HwyHaulier
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Re: Sharon Hill line stations and Charles Carr
 
« Reply #6 on: Jul 13th, 2008, 5:09pm »
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Walt -
 
Indeed! Throw the 1930 Baltimore Cars into the mix while you are at it! The J. G. Brill engineering may well have been at the top of its game!
 
The results in Baltimore were startling! Somehow the then UR&E, maybe surviving BTCo settled the labor issues, the new units were to be one man  
from the outset. Saved a lot of grief later with new PCC Cars.
 
In any case, the Baltimore Cars were notable for much reduced power draw. So, between that and the labor cost reductions, they would leave the barns  
and yards, and could come out ahead on the money...
 
It is difficult to imagine how the cars were welcomed. They must have immediately made the majority of UR&E wooden cars (some received as late  
as 1919) appear so, so passe'!
 
..............................Vern.......................


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Walt_C
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Posts: 2934
Re: Sharon Hill line stations and Charles Carr
 
« Reply #7 on: Jul 14th, 2008, 7:22pm »
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on Jul 13th, 2008, 5:09pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
It is difficult to imagine how the cars were welcomed. They must have immediately made the majority of UR&E wooden cars (some received as late  
as 1919) appear so, so passe'!
 
..............................Vern.......................

 
   I don't know about the 1930 Baltimore Cars, but the Lightweights ( 80 series) were probably very well received in Delaware County. Besides being fast, they were markedly more comfortable than the Center Door Cars which were handling the bulk of the P&WCT's trips in 1932. The interiors of the Center Door Cars were rather spartan, with their rattan seats. The Lightweights had very thickly padded leather walkover seats ( in fact they were the same kind of seats that the Bullet Cars had, the only difference being that the Bullet Cars had arm rests, and the Lightweights did not). These seats were actually more thickly padded than those on the later Brilliners and St. Louis Cars.--- I had the opportunity, as a young child, to ride the Lightweights a number of times on the West Chester Line, and, though I preferred the appearance of the then new St. Louis Cars, the Lightweights were actually smoother riding cars. The Lighweights actually lasted right up to the introduction of the Kawasakis, though by the 1960's their use was reduced to some peak period trips.  I agree--- these cars, the Bullet Cars, and those Baltimore Cars represent the high point of Brill rail car development.


« Last Edit: Jul 14th, 2008, 7:25pm by Walt_C » Logged

Please move to the rear and speed your ride-Regards, Walt
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