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A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Railway
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   A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Railway
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   Author  Topic: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Railway  (Read 6319 times)
JhnZ33
Former Member
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #120 on: Oct 26th, 2006, 9:06pm »
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on Oct 26th, 2006, 8:44pm, Josh U. wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Could these be the only remaining rails from the WB & H?
 
They sit in the rushing water from the Jeddo Tunnel. This picture was taken from atop the concrete overpass I posted a picture of a while back. This is the only place I have seen along the line where there are remains of the running rails.
 
(Bridge in picture is an old road, not affiliated with the railway.)

 
Hard to say Josh, anything is possible. It depends on the rail itself. The WB&H used some pretty heavy rail for an electric line. A closer inspection of the rail would help reveal a lot more.
 
 
John


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JhnZ33
Former Member
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #121 on: Oct 26th, 2006, 9:24pm »
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on Oct 26th, 2006, 8:27pm, Josh U. wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I did notice that, but I thought maybe the reason the windows were different was because of the addition the current residents put on, and from modifiying it for additional housing.

 
True, but I doubt the changes would be that ornate to match the original arches atop the windows.  
 
Quote:
What I was looking at was the adjacent foreground building. Notice how much different they look in the two old pictures. Plus, both of those pictures, I believe, are from after the line shut down. I find it unlikely that they would have changed it then. The other old picture's adjacent structure (from the definite Georgetown picture: http://forums.railfan.net/image.cgi?Traction/WBHRR_GSUB_BA1.jpg) still looks the same, from the pictures you posted earlier.  

 
We have to remember, these buildings are close to 100 years old. The roof structures were made of wood and over time would age and need to be replaced. It looks like they eliminated the higher peak roof over the single story portion in favor of a more cost-effective flatter roof (less wood and simple tar roof coating which would equal much lower cost to replace).
 
John


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Josh U.
Railfan
Posts: 114
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #122 on: Oct 26th, 2006, 11:21pm »
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on Oct 26th, 2006, 9:00pm, JhnZ33 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Not really, I only have my theories. When I have some free time, I will try and map out what I think was the route and post it.
 
Actually, now that I think about it, there is a member here who has access to a 1930 map of the Wyoming Valley, which shows the line from the Brass Rail restaurant all the way to the Wilkes-Barre terminal. Unfortunately, the map is rather large and cannot be scanned by your average scanner. He did talk about having it scanned professionally, but I haven't heard anything about it since he mentioned it.
 
 
John

 
Wow, that would be great! I hope he can get it up here!
 
Thanks, Josh


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Josh U.
Railfan
Posts: 114
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #123 on: Oct 26th, 2006, 11:25pm »
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on Oct 26th, 2006, 9:06pm, JhnZ33 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Hard to say Josh, anything is possible. It depends on the rail itself. The WB&H used some pretty heavy rail for an electric line. A closer inspection of the rail would help reveal a lot more.
 
 
John

 
Yeah, next time I get the chance, I'll try and get down to get a closer look at them. From a glance, that's what they seem to be, and there's obviously no other railway around that area for them to be from!
 
But if I can, I'll try and get a better picture.


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Josh U.
Railfan
Posts: 114
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #124 on: Oct 26th, 2006, 11:35pm »
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on Oct 26th, 2006, 9:24pm, JhnZ33 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
True, but I doubt the changes would be that ornate to match the original arches atop the windows.  
 
 
We have to remember, these buildings are close to 100 years old. The roof structures were made of wood and over time would age and need to be replaced. It looks like they eliminated the higher peak roof over the single story portion in favor of a more cost-effective flatter roof (less wood and simple tar roof coating which would equal much lower cost to replace).
 
John

 
As for the windows, I was thinking they might be the originals, and the people may have expanded the house to attach to the other building, because notice how the building in the old picture is unattached. That could explain why the second story windows are off center. If that were the case, then perhaps they also redid the roof and other parts of the structure to look more like a regular house. Also, notice the design in the brick on the one story portion, with the three "columns". It loks similar in both pictures...
 
Well, I'm not sure. I'm mostly just looking at the differences in the attached one story buildings. I guess we could argue back and forth as much as we want, but who's knows who's right or wrong? I figure it could be a possibility, given the many other misprints in the book. lol  
 
Perhaps I'll see if I can dig up some more information on this and get back to you if I find anything.
 
Thanks a lot,  
Josh


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Exploring the old WB & H, and looking for old pictures of the right of way.
JhnZ33
Former Member
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
  PRR_WBH003a.jpg - 48592 Bytes
« Reply #125 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 7:09pm »
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A little item I scored off of ebay recently.
 
It is a proposal by the Pennsylvania Railroad company to extend the line of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Railway from it terminus in Ashley (it's original alignment in 1903) to Wilkes-Barre near the Laurel Line terminal, currently under construction. This section of proposed line to be called the "Wilkes-Barre Terminal Railroad.
 
Check out the attached scans.
 
 
The cover:


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Traction/PRR_WBH003a.jpg
Click Image to Resize

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JhnZ33
Former Member
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
  PRR_WBH005a.jpg - 80696 Bytes
« Reply #126 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 7:22pm »
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Page 1:

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Traction/PRR_WBH005a.jpg
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JhnZ33
Former Member
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
  PRR_WBH006a.jpg - 38344 Bytes
« Reply #127 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 7:30pm »
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Page 2:

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Traction/PRR_WBH006a.jpg
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JhnZ33
Former Member
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
  PRR_WBH007a.jpg - 58627 Bytes
« Reply #128 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 7:38pm »
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Blueprint map of the proposed line:

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Traction/PRR_WBH007a.jpg
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Josh U.
Railfan
Posts: 114
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #129 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 9:10pm »
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Hey, John.
 
That really pretty cool. It's amazing the things you can get off ebay!
 


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NS3360
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Posts: 1955
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #130 on: Nov 18th, 2006, 10:57am »
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on Oct 26th, 2006, 8:44pm, Josh U. wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Could these be the only remaining rails from the WB & H?

 
I have seen two similar scenes like this on two of my own favorite lines. I measured the rails in both instances and turned out likely that they came from the trolley line. Can you get down near those rails?  If you know the lbs. per yard of rail most commonly used on the WB&H, I suggest measure its height to determine the lbs. per yard to see if it matches up...


« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2006, 10:58am by NS3360 » Logged

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Josh U.
Railfan
Posts: 114
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #131 on: Nov 18th, 2006, 4:33pm »
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on Nov 18th, 2006, 10:57am, NS3360 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I have seen two similar scenes like this on two of my own favorite lines. I measured the rails in both instances and turned out likely that they came from the trolley line. Can you get down near those rails?  If you know the lbs. per yard of rail most commonly used on the WB&H, I suggest measure its height to determine the lbs. per yard to see if it matches up...

 
I've never actually tried to get to them, but I probably could to get a better look.
 
I don't know the common pounds per yard, but if they are indeed train rails, they're most likely from the WB&H, because no other railways ran anywhere near there. So, now it's just a matter of getting a good look!


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Josh U.
Railfan
Posts: 114
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #132 on: Nov 29th, 2006, 3:09pm »
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The WB&H book by E. J. Quinby says that there were two other accidents on the line, besides the St. John's wreck, during the time the line was in use. One was in 1907, on the outskirts of Blytheburn Lake, where one of the wooden cars rolled over and caught fire. Another happened at the overpass (of which I believe is S. Main Rd.), near Yeager's Creek, where a car crashed through the guard rail and landed on the tracks in front of an approaching interurban car, killing the whole family inside the car.  
 
However, the book does not give specific dates for these incidents. The one at Blytheburn Lake only gives the year, and the other has neither a date nor year. Does anyone know the actual dates of these events? If I can find that out, I plan to look them up in the old newspaper archives in Wilkes-Barre.


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Warren_Thompson
Historian
Posts: 403
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #133 on: Nov 29th, 2006, 4:17pm »
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Based on the maps in the Quinby volume, there was no apparent direct connection between the Laurel Line and the W-B&H in Wilkes-Barre, though each line seems to have had an interchange with a steam road in that city.
 
QUESTION: by means of the steam road as "bridge,"
was there any freight interchange between these two electric lines?


« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2006, 4:19pm by Warren_Thompson » Logged
Josh U.
Railfan
Posts: 114
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #134 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 5:21pm »
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on Nov 29th, 2006, 4:17pm, Warren_Thompson wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Based on the maps in the Quinby volume, there was no apparent direct connection between the Laurel Line and the W-B&H in Wilkes-Barre, though each line seems to have had an interchange with a steam road in that city.
 
QUESTION: by means of the steam road as "bridge,"
was there any freight interchange between these two electric lines?

 
I'm not sure about the freight exchange between the two lines, but I believe I did read somewhere that there was a proposed plan to join the two lines together near the Wilkes-Barre terminal. Now, I'm not sure about this, but, I'm almost certain I heard it somewhere. However, if there were any plans, the WB&H most likely went out of business before it could happen.
 
 
There's a book I saw about the Laurel Line in Barnes and Noble in W-B. That may have some information about the frieght exchange in it.  
 
Sorry I can't be of more help.


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Josh U.
Railfan
Posts: 114
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
  edited_Copy_of_Picturejru2s_camer_558.jpg - 51441 Bytes
« Reply #135 on: Dec 11th, 2006, 2:59pm »
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Here is a closer photo of the old rails from the WB & H. I wasn't sure if they actually were the old rails or not, until I got a closer look at them. Now they sit, rotting away, in the acid mine drainage from the Jeddo Mine Tunnel.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Traction/edited_Copy_of_Picturejru2s_camer_558.jpg
Click Image to Resize

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JhnZ33
Former Member
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
  HazTrolley1.jpg - 16004 Bytes
« Reply #136 on: Dec 15th, 2006, 8:31am »
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on Dec 11th, 2006, 2:59pm, Josh U. wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Here is a closer photo of the old rails from the WB & H. I wasn't sure if they actually were the old rails or not, until I got a closer look at them. Now they sit, rotting away, in the acid mine drainage from the Jeddo Mine Tunnel.

 
Nice pic Josh. According to documentation, the WB&H used 95 pounds per yard rail. If you get a chance and can get closer to the rail, you should take some measurements of the dimensions of the rail.
 
By the way, if you're looking for another book to supplement the WB&H book you have by Quinby, you should pick up "Hazelton's Trolleys" by Benson Rohrbeck.
You can find them new on ebay directly from BEN ROHRBECK TRACTION PUBLICATIONS for $22.00. The book contains photos, maps and text not found in Quinby's book. The book also mentions the "W-B Terminal RR" I mentioned a few posts back and goes into detail about the specifics of construction right down to the type and dimesions of wire used for transmission and telephone wires.
 
Hope you find the info useful.
 
 
John


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Traction/HazTrolley1.jpg
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Josh U.
Railfan
Posts: 114
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #137 on: Dec 15th, 2006, 11:32pm »
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on Dec 15th, 2006, 8:31am, JhnZ33 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Nice pic Josh. According to documentation, the WB&H used 95 pounds per yard rail. If you get a chance and can get closer to the rail, you should take some measurements of the dimensions of the rail.
 
By the way, if you're looking for another book to supplement the WB&H book you have by Quinby, you should pick up "Hazelton's Trolleys" by Benson Rohrbeck.
You can find them new on ebay directly from BEN ROHRBECK TRACTION PUBLICATIONS for $22.00. The book contains photos, maps and text not found in Quinby's book. The book also mentions the "W-B Terminal RR" I mentioned a few posts back and goes into detail about the specifics of construction right down to the type and dimesions of wire used for transmission and telephone wires.
 
Hope you find the info useful.
 
 
John

 
I'll try to see if I can get closer to take measurements for them. I'm not sure though. The mine drainage tends to change deepness pretty randomly. lol I'll see what I can do though.
 
And thanks for the info on the book! I'll have to look into that!


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jimboylan
Railfan
Posts: 145
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #138 on: Dec 27th, 2006, 2:04am »
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When Dan Green and I first explored the tunnel in 1975, we left a pen and notebook in a 5 gallon pickle jar at the far end, and painted "Visitors' Register - Sign Here" on a nearby rock.  Did any of you notice it? It was gone when we returned in 1981.
The far North end of the tunnel starts to curve to the right before ending at a pile of dirt and small stones with a corrugated drain pipe under it.  Has anyone found the other end of the that pipe?


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JhnZ33
Former Member
Re: A remnant of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton Rai
 
« Reply #139 on: Dec 27th, 2006, 3:59am »
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on Dec 27th, 2006, 2:04am, jimboylan wrote:       (Click here for original message)
When Dan Green and I first explored the tunnel in 1975, we left a pen and notebook in a 5 gallon pickle jar at the far end, and painted "Visitors' Register - Sign Here" on a nearby rock.  Did any of you notice it? It was gone when we returned in 1981.

 
I was never inside the tunnel and in 1975 - 1981, I was too young to think about it even if I knew about it.
 
Quote:
The far North end of the tunnel starts to curve to the right before ending at a pile of dirt and small stones with a corrugated drain pipe under it.  Has anyone found the other end of the that pipe?

 
Jim, a few of us were there a few months ago looking for signs of the north portal. With the construction of widening the the road to 3 lanes, the area has become buried. We did find where water was flowing out of the fill, and can only assume that is where the north side of the tunnel would have exited. Following the fill northeastward, about 100 feet away from that area, we found the ROW untouched.


« Last Edit: Dec 27th, 2006, 4:00am by JhnZ33 » Logged
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