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The Decapod story
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   Author  Topic: The Decapod story  (Read 757 times)
Transcon
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Posts: 359
The Decapod story
 
« on: Dec 19th, 2006, 3:01pm »
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Hello out there.
Does anybody know when the first 2-10-0 Decapod was built?  
How high was it´s tractive effort?  
Which manufacturer built it?  
And which railroad used the first Decapods?
 
Why have there been so much more Consolidations built than Decapods although Decapods are more powerful?
 
And which road had the most Decapods and the biggest ones?
 
What was the last Decapod to quit regular service?
 
As you can see I got many qestions....hope you can answer them.....!


« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2006, 3:02pm by Transcon » Logged
nkp_h6
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Posts: 61
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #1 on: Dec 19th, 2006, 5:00pm »
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I could be wrong, but weren't the first Decapods the "Russian" ones built in 1918? (I think they were built by Baldwin).

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moocow

Posts: 456
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #2 on: Dec 19th, 2006, 6:07pm »
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The  first 2-10-0 (Decapod) was built by the Lancaster Locomotive Works for the Reading**   in 1867, only a year after the first 2-8-0  
 
as a type the 2-8-0 was a sucess right from the start, but the 2-10-0 tended to be a slow, long wheelbase, clumsy, lumbering machine.  Initial problems with the 2-10-0 tended to be linked to inadequate equalization and counterbalancing the long length of the main rod.  
 
About 1910 improved cross equalization and the development of lighter rods and better bearings breathed new life into the dec as a need for a light axle loading higher tractive effort machine became apparent.  After the end of WW I Baldwin developed the concept into fairly standard designs the heavier of which developed 60,000 pound sTE with an axle loading of only 46,000 pounds.  (By comparison a USRA heavy Mikado developed the same sTE but had a 60,000 axle loading)  
 
This development produced a fast, easy steaming and popular machine just in time for the great depression to sink the new locomotive market.  World War II and the appearance of the diesel locomotive limited production numbers.
 
The last 2-10-0s in regular service (not tourist) were on The Gainsville Midland in Georgia and operated until 1959, and the Great Western used one seasonally in sugar beet harvest season until about 1963.  
 
Why were more 2-8-0s built, the design was initially more versitile and enjoyed a longer production life.  Once the initial design problems were worked out the dec became a more useful piece of motive power on heavy traffic light rail lines, but it never did supplant the consolidation on light traffic lines.  There are many places where short and fast trains were better than long and slow ones.
 
**I meant to say Lehigh Valley


« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2006, 2:59pm by moocow » Logged

steve b
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Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #3 on: Dec 19th, 2006, 6:18pm »
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Hi,
 
On my HO gauge layout, I have an I-1s Decapod by Bowser. It will pull a house away.
 
The real Decks, by PRR were not particularly fast, but they also would pull a house away. They did a marvelous job on the Horseshoe Curve, and did yeoman work on the various humps they were assigned to. Absolutely marvelous engines. I particularly like the "dog house" atop their tenders. Good place for a Conductor. Great view.


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Dyed in the wool PRR fan.
GP38
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Posts: 801
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #4 on: Dec 19th, 2006, 6:26pm »
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Well there was more consolidation steamers, because that was the standard locomotive of it`s time period for every railroad. It was the railroads that considered the 2-8-0`s their all around mainline steamer and they were very reliable locomotives.  Just think of them as the steam version of GP9`s, GP38-2`s and SD40-2`s. Well built and very, very popular.
 
  The railroads that had the most Decapods were the PRR with 500+ 2-10-0`s and Western Maryland. Both PRR & WM had the largest 2-10-0`s) The L&NE, Reading, Erie and SLSF also had some 2-10-0`s in their locomotive fleets.  
 
 The Decapods did have unbelievable pulling power, but they were very rough riders to the Right of Way, pounding the rails way to much for some railroads and they were just stepping stones in steam locomotive modernization.  
 
 Exmaple. (Maybe you know this already but.... )
 
 2-8-0 = 2-8-2.
 2-10-0 = 2-10-2.
 
 Baldwin was the builder of the most 2-10-0`s.
 
  Also PRR was the last railroad to use their Decapods in mainline and secondary mainline service. They used them as late as 1957-58 mostly on the Northern Division (Susquehanna Division), between Buffalo NY- Erie PA- Pittsburgh PA- Harrisburgh PA, Elmira Branch to Sodius Point NY, Tyrone PA & Lockhaven PA, Northumberland PA & Mount Carmel PA and well almost anywhere in between on the Middle Division. Though the last PRR 2-10-0, pulled the last steam train from Cresson PA and into Altoona PA with a loaded coal train, ending PRR`s operations of the 2-10-0`s.


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LEHIGHVALLEE
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Posts: 656
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #5 on: Dec 19th, 2006, 7:28pm »
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   Transcon,  
  Moocow has the date and builder correct but it was in fact the Lehigh Valley railroad that built the first two Decapods called the "Ant" and "Bee". They were a logical expansion on the Consolidation type which was also originated on the LV in 1866, Consolidation stood for the consolidation of predecessor roads into the Lehigh Valley. Both were rebuilt with the "Bee" being rebuilt into the first 2-8-2 wheel arrangement around 1884 and the "ant" being rebuilt into a 4-8-0 wheel arrangement. The "Bee" has a unique history as it pioneered two different wheel arrangements!
 
           Lee


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nkp_h6
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Posts: 61
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #6 on: Dec 19th, 2006, 7:48pm »
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on Dec 19th, 2006, 6:07pm, moocow wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The  first 2-10-0 (Decapod) was built by the Lancaster Locomotive Works for the Reading in 1867, only a year after the first 2-8-0  
 
as a type the 2-8-0 was a sucess right from the start, but the 2-10-0 tended to be a slow, long wheelbase, clumsy, lumbering machine.  Initial problems with the 2-10-0 tended to be linked to inadequate equalization and counterbalancing the long length of the main rod.  
 
About 1910 improved cross equalization and the development of lighter rods and better bearings breathed new life into the dec as a need for a light axle loading higher tractive effort machine became apparent.  After the end of WW I Baldwin developed the concept into fairly standard designs the heavier of which developed 60,000 pound sTE with an axle loading of only 46,000 pounds.  (By comparison a USRA heavy Mikado developed the same sTE but had a 60,000 axle loading)  
 
This development produced a fast, easy steaming and popular machine just in time for the great depression to sink the new locomotive market.  World War II and the appearance of the diesel locomotive limited production numbers.
 
The last 2-10-0s in regular service (not tourist) were on The Gainsville Midland in Georgia and operated until 1959, and the Great Western used one seasonally in sugar beet harvest season until about 1963.  
 
Why were more 2-8-0s built, the design was initially more versitile and enjoyed a longer production life.  Once the initial design problems were worked out the dec became a more useful piece of motive power on heavy traffic light rail lines, but it never did supplant the consolidation on light traffic lines

1867! Wow, I was way off


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90Fan
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Posts: 2072
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #7 on: Dec 19th, 2006, 10:36pm »
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on Dec 19th, 2006, 6:07pm, moocow wrote:       (Click here for original message)

...and the Great Western used one seasonally in sugar beet harvest season until about 1963.  

 
They sure did. And that decapod was none other than my namesake, ex-GW (currently Strasburg) #90 ! No doubt she was the last one to retire. Even after '63, GW used her on fan trips until selling her to Strasburg in 1967, where she immediately became a huge success and remains to this day Strasburg's most well-known and well-loved steamer!


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I'm ba-ack....for now, anyway.
moocow

Posts: 456
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #8 on: Dec 19th, 2006, 11:00pm »
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on Dec 19th, 2006, 7:28pm, LEHIGHVALLEE wrote:       (Click here for original message)
   Transcon,  
  Moocow has the date and builder correct but it was in fact the Lehigh Valley railroad that built the first two Decapods called the "Ant" and "Bee". They were a logical expansion on the Consolidation type which was also originated on the LV in 1866, Consolidation stood for the consolidation of predecessor roads into the Lehigh Valley. Both were rebuilt with the "Bee" being rebuilt into the first 2-8-2 wheel arrangement around 1884 and the "ant" being rebuilt into a 4-8-0 wheel arrangement. The "Bee" has a unique history as it pioneered two different wheel arrangements!
 
                                                                  Lee

 
I meant to say Lehigh Valley.  In fact the Consolidation and the Ant were both designed by Alexander Mitchell


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steve b
Transcon
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Posts: 359
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #9 on: Dec 20th, 2006, 7:08am »
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Thanks for the answers.
 
Does anybody got a picture of these very first Decapods from 1867?
 
Or do you know a website where this locos are pictured?


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moocow

Posts: 456
Re: The Decapod story
  bee_622x313.jpg - 32624 Bytes
« Reply #10 on: Dec 20th, 2006, 2:53pm »
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this is how the Bee looked after rebuilding in 1883 into a 2-8-2 double ender

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/SteamGeneral/bee_622x313.jpg
Click Image to Resize

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steve b
ClydeDET
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Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #11 on: Dec 22nd, 2006, 5:22pm »
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Looks like they pulled out the number two axle and associated wheel sets to get it down to eight drivers.

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moocow

Posts: 456
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #12 on: Dec 22nd, 2006, 5:56pm »
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my guess would be that the #2 set of drivers was removed and #3,4,5 were repositioned to clear the new trailing truck

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steve b
toptrain
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Re: The Decapod story
  2-10-0c_NYLEW.jpg - 240583 Bytes
« Reply #13 on: Oct 31st, 2013, 9:53am »
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**  My favorite decapod is of the New York lake Erie and Western Railroad. Baldwin Built them for the Erie in 1892. Why I like them is they were the only Decapods made as Camelbacks. Originally there were 5, numbers 800 to 804. A 6th # 805 was built by Baldwin to be displayed at the worlds fair in Chicago.
 
 
** - - - " Worlds Columbian Exposition "  
 
* After the exposition closed the 6th loco # 805 was sent to the Erie RR.  
 
* A unnamed writer wrote this of what was the largest locomotive built to date. It was published in the " Locomotive Engineering" magazine Volume 5 No 2, with the article dated February 1892. A photo of the engineers side of the loco with the front half of its tender is on this page.  
 
**   The Article is titled ;
 
***  " A Modern Samson " ***
 * This is the text of the second paragraph.
 * " When you get a 76" boiler of 1/4" steel on 10 drivers and a truck, 193,000. pounds on  a wheelbase of 27' 3" you have considerable locomotive in one lump."
* I like this writers style! The engine is not your standard simple powered type but a Vauclain 4 cylinder compound having a high pressure and low pressure cylinder on each side, the upper or low pressure cylinder being of 27 inches in diameter, this is one of the largest made up to this time.  
** General dimensions are:
--Actual weight excluding tender; 193,000 lbs.
--Weight on driving wheels; 170,000 lbs.
--Estimated weight of fully loaded tender, 90,000 lbs.
--Operating weight fully loaded, 283,000lbs.
--High pressure cylinders, 16"X28"  
--Low pressure cylinders, 27"X28"
--Driving wheels, 50"
--Total wheelbase locomotive, 27' 3"
--Driving wheelbase, 18' 10"
--Total wheelbase Engine and tender, 53' 4 1/2 "
--Total length of engine and tender, 63' 8 1/2"
--Working pressure, 175 lbs.
 
** Info, Text, and photo from the on line library of "Internet Archive", The Magazine is " Locomotive Engineer " Volume 5, 1892.  
 
** Article " The Modern Sampson "
 
** ------------------- Photo of NYLE&W #800.---------------------**


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/SteamGeneral/2-10-0c_NYLEW.jpg
Click Image to Resize

« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2013, 5:15pm by toptrain » Logged

toptrain
" Its A Heck of A Day "
scottychaos
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Posts: 1342
Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #14 on: Nov 4th, 2013, 4:18pm »
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The first two Decapods, from 1867:
 
LV 81 "Ant"

 
LV 82 "Bee"

 
And some notes on them:
Quote:
"Faced with the problem of negotiating the formidable grades on Mahanoy Mountain, Mitchell set out to design a locomotive capable of wrestling heavy trainloads over the Mahanoy branch. The result was a 2-8-0 wheel arrangement assembled by a dubious Matthias Baldwin according to Mitchell's plans. Turned out by the Baldwin works in 1866, the new locomotive was the first 2-8-0 built for road service, the progenitor of what would become a widely adopted freight hauling type on the LV and other roads. Named CONSOLIDATION, purportedly to commemorate the recent merger, the new 2-8-0 proved so successful in overcoming mountain grades that 14 more locomotives of the same type were added to the LV roster by Baldwin between 1867 and 1872.
 
Seeking other novel motive power types for mountain road service, Mitchell drew up specifications for two 2-10-0's which were built in 1867 by Norris Brothers of Lancaster, Pa. Laying claim to the first locomotives built to the 2-10-0 design, the two Decapods ANT and BEE were something less than successful in service. Tight curves were more than a match for their long, rigid wheelbases, and they were subsequently rebuilt, the BEE as a 2-8-2 and the ANT as a 4-8-0."
 
source:  A History of the Lehigh Valley Railroad, "The Route of the Black Diamond" by Robert F. Archer, 1977

 
The ANT was rebuilt in 1880 as a 4-8-0 at Weatherly, was still around in 1905 to become ten-wheeler number 90, and was finally scrapped in 1912.
 
The BEE was rebuilt in 1883 as the world's first 2-8-2, then rebuilt again in 1889 as a 2-8-0,
and was off the roster by 1892.
 
The LV, with its mountain routes and sharp curves in the early coal fields, never owned any other Decapods after those original two..although they did later own 2-10-2's.
 
Scot


« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2013, 4:20pm by scottychaos » Logged
toptrain
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Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #15 on: Jan 16th, 2014, 12:35pm »
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**      ERIE Pusher Locomotives. " THE SPECIAL BREED "
 
* The ERIE  as with other eastern railroads had to build their roadbeds where they could, and not often where they wanted. The ERIE's problem up to the 1890's, among others, was " Susquehanna Hill ". This hill had curves of 5 degrees combined with grades of 60 feet per mile. A freight train before this period was pulled by one consolidation locomotive to the foot of Susquehanna Hill.  The 2-8-0 of the time pulled a load of 1,250 to 1,300 net tons and lading. Making a  average train, pulling this weight, of around 45 to 50 cars in its train. Two more of these 2-8-0s were added to the train to push this average freight train up this hill. They were added to the rear as pushers. The need for locomotive of more power was evident. The New York, Lake Erie and Western, as the ERIE was known as then, had their engineers work with those of Baldwin to design a locomotive capable of replacing 2 of the 2-8-0s used at the time . They did better. They built the world's largest non articulated locomotive at the time. It remained the largest at a time of rapid locomotive development for over a year. It was unique in that it was the world's first Wooten type firebox, Camelback locomotive. No other decapod camelback types were ever made. NYLE&W received 5. A sixth was built by Baldwin and sent to the Chicago World's Fair. After the fair ended 805 became the ERIE's sixth locomotive of the J1 class. They were numbered 800 to 805. Number 805 was the one at the fair. Millions of visitors to fair stood amazed, gazing at this huge beast of Iron, and Steel. Close up, in operation, it would have frightened half of them.  
 
* This was ERIE's first specially designed Pusher.
 
***  Some links to free E-Book info on the Locomotive type.
 
Google E-Book,  Railroad Gazette,  Volume-24, 1892.
 
Erie 2-10-0c
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=Z5wxAQAAMAAJ&dq=editions%3AeYT7aYfBROQC&pg=PA59#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
Baldwin Compound for the World's fair. P-844
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=Z5wxAQAAMAAJ&dq=editions%3AeYT7aYfBROQC&pg=RA1-PA844#v=onepage&q&f=false


« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2014, 12:38pm by toptrain » Logged

toptrain
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Dr. Richard Leonard
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Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #16 on: Feb 3rd, 2014, 12:47am »
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In addition to the railroads mentioned above, the Illinois Central had a few home-made Decapods: http://www.railarchive.net/randomsteam/ic3610.htm

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Dr. Richard Leonard, Hamilton, Illinois. Richard Leonard's Rail Archive, http://www.railarchive.net
wm1111
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Re: The Decapod story
 
« Reply #17 on: Feb 3rd, 2014, 11:01am »
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Testament to the decapod's utility is that an I-2 was the last big steam operating on the Western Maryland mainline service, albeit as a pusher.  It outlived the Challengers, Potomacs, and H-9"s.
 
wm


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toptrain
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Russian decapods story
 
« Reply #18 on: Feb 6th, 2014, 8:01am »
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*** Well a little bit here about the protypicacallity of the USA Russian decapods. ***
 ** All leased locomotives that were returned came back with little or no alterations. When they were built they had Russian numbering, changed by the USRA. They in all appearances still were Russian decapods. Some railroads removed the tender roof support for the sliding cab roof. All Russian tender trucks were replaced before leasing by the USRA because of their gauge. The replacement trucks on many caused the sliding roof problems. The reason for the removal of the roof supports. The 19 leased by the CRR of NJ all 19 were returned in either April or May of 1920. All came back with their original US numbers, and USA on the tenders, and their sliding roofs and side walkway railing intact.  Returned units were not rebuilt, but sold as is. Their was one unit USA 1175 which was a X-CNJ one. This locomotive received a light rebuild by Baldwin in 1922. After this rebuild it was still a all Russian loco. It was identical to the ones issued but the USRA except for a better size tender truck that allowed the sliding roof to line up and operate properly. Missing also was the USA on its tender sides. It was replaced with its new companies name " MARION & EASTERN #6. This is common for the returned locomotives. Of the 200 locomotives leased, 100 were Alco built, 65 at Richmond,35 built by Brooks. Baldwin built the other 100. My info says where everyone of them went. All were used by other railroads. They were run as Russians with their unique smoke box doors, walkway handrails, Russian cabs.  
* After the purchasing the list of railroads using them were, SAL, SL&SF, Eire, StL&H (ex A&WP),Sou, LR&N, ACL, GaNo, DT&I, NOT&M, GM&N, M&E, P&R, KCM&O, and GF&A. Now almost all ran them to their 1st rebuild as Russians. This means that prototypically Russian Decapods were running all over this country. I have a photo of Erie 2468 and a second not listed loco in 1925, still were Russians. Baldwin received many of these locomotives, in trade toward new ones. These were sought after locomotives. Baldwin rebuilt X CRR of NJ , USA 1175 in 1922. Sold to the M&E who numbered it #6. The photo shows a true Russian with the only change a stepped front pilot. The M&E was acquired by Gulf coast Lines. It became #118 on the NOT&M. latter about 1925 it became Missouri and Pacific #848 for a long career. This is typical of these light weight decapods. My list shows renumbering of certain locomotives in 1940, 1936, 1942, even as late as 1951. A common story of this breed of locomotives is that their low axel loadings made them easy on the track of secondary lines, yet they could pull trains of reasonable size at moderate speeds. At the time of the writing of this bulletin, April 1971, these locomotives still existed.1015, 1615,1088,1089,1625, 1147, 1195, 1199. The design must have been successful, for 25 years latter 2,200 more were built for the Soviet Union of WW2. These 200 spoken of here served on over 42 different railroads. This was not a design that died here in the US. Locomotive builders here received many orders for this light weight decapods during the years between the world wars.  


« Last Edit: Oct 10th, 2014, 9:35am by toptrain » Logged

toptrain
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toptrain
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Russian Decapods on the Central Railroad of New Jersey
 
« Reply #19 on: Feb 6th, 2014, 8:04am »
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   Russian Decapods on the Central Railroad of New Jersey
 
  The USRA was formed at the start of World War 1. Its purpose to oversee US railroad lines to improve their freight handling and security. This is not an article on the USRA but only on the Locomotives that they had sent to the CNJ to help with their, the CNJ’s, operation. Initially in December of 1917 The USRA leased to the CNJ 10, 2-8-0 that were built for France.
 
  These locomotives all built by Baldwin, were received by the CNJ in two groups. December, 1917. Seven locomotives numbers 660 to 666. February, 1918 three locomotives numbers 484 to 486. These road numbers were used. This group of ten was not long for CNJ rails. The USRA was to lease 19 Russian decapods to the CNJ for the remainder of the war. These were the only 2-10-0 type locomotives that were used by the Central of New Jersey. When these were received the 2-8-0 type were returned. The first group of Decapods, were four built by the American locomotive Co.  
The locomotives were numbered 1090 to 1093. The remaining 15 were all Baldwin built.
The second group was of 10. They were numbers 1171 to 1180. They were received in April, 1918 also. The last group of 5 was received in June of 1918. These numbers were not consecutive. The numbers were, 1116, 1136, 1139, 1160, and 1162. As with the 2-8-0 type these road numbers were used. At the wars end the all 19 locomotives were returned to the USRA. This was done in April and May of 1920.
 
  The CNJ used them with very little modification. No generators were ever installed on them, and they used oil lamps. The CNJ didn’t like these locomotives for various reasons. One was the motion of the throttle was in reverse to what was normal for the CNJ. For their life on the CNJ they stayed mainly in Pennsylvania. There is a photo of two of them at the station in Jim Thorpe. It is buried in a photo archive at Steamtown.  
  Any photos of these locomotives would be helpful. I suspect that the front pilot steps were mounted at an angle to both the front and side of the pilot support. I have made two models of these locomotives. The information here is general though not well known, operational information of the CNJ. These are below and as you can see are not out of the box Bachmann. Their cabs were wrong and new ones had to be made. Also that they were all weather, in closed cabs with a articulated roof and sliding cab doors (which the models don’t have) added to the reason for replacing. Handrails also had to be added. I didn’t remove the generator and the front headlight. I guess I don’t know why the CNJ never changed them. But I did! It is a builder’s privilege and I didn’t want to limit the locomotives usages.  


« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2014, 8:08am by toptrain » Logged

toptrain
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