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Mallard is fastest steam loco?
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   Author  Topic: Mallard is fastest steam loco?  (Read 3344 times)
52_2006

Posts: 68
Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« on: Jun 3rd, 2005, 5:13am »
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In the thread Biggest driver wheels there is a comment by Virginian:
 
on May 29th, 2005, 1:28am, Virginian wrote:       (Click here for original message)
 Me thinks some of you are falling victim to fiction and flights of fancy.  'Mallard', the British 4-6-2, holds the official speed world record for steam at 125 MPH.  ...

 
If that speed record is officially the highest, I have my doubts after reading this website which compares the test run of Mallard and 05:
 
http://www.germansteam.info/fastestloco.html
 
The mallard had a downhill grade, only a short distance of 60 feet to run it's maximum speed, lighter train and runned at maximum power, never runned even nearly as fast again, where the 05 was on equal leveled track, heavyer train, valve gear almost closed, and after the run in still good condition to run several times again faster than 110 miles per hour. The wbsite also claims that the Mallard did not reach 125 or even 126 mph, but like 05 a bit more than 124 mph. Maybe the Milwaukees described on that side have been faster?


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kondensierte Grüße,

Stefan

http://www.kondenslok.de

CHESSIEMIKE
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #1 on: Jun 3rd, 2005, 6:28am »
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I'm not one to argue a point that I am not sure of.  And I have heard in the past of train speeds that were reported to be faster than the Mallard, but did not have documentation.  The report on the 05 is very interesting.  I, for one, would have been more than willing to hold on for that ride if for no other reason than to dance with the Fireman.
Thanks for the link.
CHESSIEMIKE


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Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.
RDG484
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #2 on: Jun 3rd, 2005, 2:55pm »
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I have no doubt in my mind that the Milwaukee had a lot more opportunity  to run at 125+ MPH with their A's and F-7's.  They definitely hit 110 MPH every day.  If they were late, in those days, nobody frowned when you were trying to make up lost time.  And with a lot of straight, level track, there was a LOT of opportunity for Milwaukee to do 125+ MPH with steam.

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52_2006

Posts: 68
Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #3 on: Jun 6th, 2005, 1:44am »
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I sugest to organize a race, 05 001 still exists, Mallard still exists, and probably the Milwaukee as well. Who organizes the event?  

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kondensierte Grüße,

Stefan

http://www.kondenslok.de

RDG484
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #4 on: Jun 6th, 2005, 7:12am »
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I don't think there are any Milwaukee Class A's or F-7's around any more.  About the closest you can get to them that's still in existance would be the streamlined Chesapeake & Ohio 4-6-4 at the B&O RR Museum, or maybe UP 844, which regularly ran at 100+ MPH where UP had cab signals on its Overland Route.

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GP72ACe

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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #5 on: Jun 6th, 2005, 12:55pm »
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OK...all Virginian did was quote the Guinness Book of World Records, in essence.  And you know that their judges are always going to give it to the Brits when it comes to railways  

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RDG484
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #6 on: Jun 6th, 2005, 4:31pm »
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Oops!!  Forgot SF 3751.  I read somewhere that "full capabilities of these locomotives were never unleashed."

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Strasburg_fan
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #7 on: Jun 6th, 2005, 6:45pm »
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Let's not forget that the PRR 4-4-2 Atlantic No. 7002 reached 127 mph while hauling the Broadway Limited in 1905!

« Last Edit: Jun 7th, 2005, 7:12pm by strasburg475 » Logged
NKP759fan
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #8 on: Jun 6th, 2005, 9:01pm »
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I have heard that too, but it has not been confirmed, so the Mallard still holds the record at 125.  But I heard that the Mallard was damaged going that fast. I would think that the grease just disinagrated and the rods and bearing got hot. But I can't confirm this.

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
CHESSIEMIKE
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #9 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 6:48am »
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on Jun 6th, 2005, 9:01pm, NKP759fan wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I have heard that too, but it has not been confirmed, so the Mallard still holds the record at 125.  But I heard that the Mallard was damaged going that fast. I would think that the grease just disinagrated and the rods and bearing got hot. But I can't confirm this.
Yes, the Mallard had to be rebuilt after it's run.  Lots of damaged to it's reciprocating parts.  If we are going to run the race between the Mallard and the 05 then I propose we have them run at a neutral location.  Get them ready to race and ship them to the US.  We have a nice long straight stretch of double track over here to run them full blast on.  I'll even report the results back to you.
CHESSIEMIKE


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Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.
RDG484
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #10 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 10:09am »
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on Jun 7th, 2005, 6:48am, CHESSIEMIKE wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Yes, the Mallard had to be rebuilt after it's run.  Lots of damaged to it's reciprocating parts.  If we are going to run the race between the Mallard and the 05 then I propose we have them run at a neutral location.  Get them ready to race and ship them to the US.  We have a nice long straight stretch of double track over here to run them full blast on.  I'll even report the results back to you.
CHESSIEMIKE

 
There is a 21-mile so-called "race track" between New Brunswick and Trenton, NJ.  With 4 tracks, maybe we could add 3751 to the competition!!!
 
Oh, well.  It's fun to speculate.


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NKP759fan
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #11 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 4:27pm »
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Maybe the PRR 1361 will make it up there lol , that husky pacific will show the 4-8-4's what speed is all about

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
CSX B40-8
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #12 on: Jun 8th, 2005, 7:11am »
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what about them Penn Central T-1s? i heard they were used as passenger haulers and could crack 115mph with no problem. dunno how many were used though.....i dont know much about steam power......

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chessie8212
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #13 on: Jun 9th, 2005, 1:58pm »
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Quote:
what about them Penn Central T-1s?

 
I think you're referring to the Pennsylvania's T-1's (4-4-4-4 duplexes).  
 
The Penn Central was around after the days of steam coming to an end on the Pennsy.  
 
That does raise an interesthing thought though...  Could you imagine the PC trying to maintain a steamer?!  It'd have come up missing drive rods somehow, yet they'd still try to run it!


« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2005, 1:59pm by chessie8212 » Logged


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CSX B40-8
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #14 on: Jun 10th, 2005, 5:47pm »
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yea....dats what i was talkin bout....da 4-4-4-4 duplexes. werent they made for speed.....and havent  a few of them whack pass 110mph? I thought Penn Central was Pennsy........dont laugh......we all arent entitled to know everything.

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chessie8212
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #15 on: Jun 10th, 2005, 11:08pm »
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on Jun 10th, 2005, 5:47pm, CSX_B40-8 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
yea....dats what i was talkin bout....da 4-4-4-4 duplexes. werent they made for speed.....and havent  a few of them whack pass 110mph? I thought Penn Central was Pennsy........dont laugh......we all arent entitled to know everything.

 
No laughing here.  Technically, you're right, the Penn Central was the Pennsy in a way!  I knew very little about past railroads when I first got into railfanning.  
 
That's the great thing about railfan.net.  The amount of knowledge on this board is amazing!  It sure doesn't take long to learn alot here.
 
Here is a bit of information on those duplexes: (Taken from http://www.crestlineprr.com/duplexexperimentals.html#t1)
These locomotives sported 80' drivers, and could easily pull an 18 car train at speeds at 100 mph and more. There is a story told that a road foreman was riding behind a T1, and clocked it at over 120 mph on the flat lands of Indiana! Remember those Poppet valves that worked so well on the S1? The Motive Power Department wondered why it was that they were failing way more often than they should have. They were designed to run at 100 mph, but could not withstand the punishment of continued running at 100+ mph.
 
These beasts were serviced and inspected at the Crestline Roundhouse which is about 35 miles from where I live.  Amazing to think that these beauties used to run on the Broadway Route... which I've always known in my lifetime to be a mere shell of it's former self!


« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2005, 11:09pm by chessie8212 » Logged


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Virginian
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #16 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 5:59am »
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Yes, in the Guiness Book of World Records, Mallard holds the record.  My point was that there were probably several US steam engines that could have broken it, but the fact remains that no one else cared enough to do it, and document the results.
For my money, the Milwaukee steamers were the fastest.  Built from the outset with the idea of running 100++ over the flatlands.  With plenty of boiler, and tractive effort, and the large steam piping to stop and then get rolling again, fast, in a short period of time.  And, they did it routinely.  Topping 110 plus every day to try to beat the C&NW's competing route between Chicago and Minneapolis.  Alas, none of these great engines were preserved.
I have several videos of the Pennsy duplexes.  I wouldn't have wanted to ride on one.  Spinning the front drivers at speed seems just a bit too exciting.


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davy_mac
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #17 on: Aug 5th, 2005, 9:50pm »
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Hi Guys,
     I reckon that the German engine probably was a bit faster than the Mallard.
Also some American engines could probably /did probably ?? match the Mallard too.
 However bear in mind that the British engines are a good bit smaller than either German or US machines and constricted by the smaller British loading gauge.Also the Mallard as far as I'm aware didn't have the benefit of roller bearings on drivers etc. The Mallard was an A 4 class pacific loco. I have distinct memories of this class of locomotive on the Aberdeen to Glasgow run in the 1960s here in Scotland. Their last stomping ground.   Golden Plover, Silver Link, Lord Faringdon,Union of South Africa ,Bittern,I saw every one of them in action either on passenger or fast freight.
 World record or none ,those engines were sleek and they could move. I have vivd memories of them flat out on the mainline. man were they a sight for sore eyes.
     Oh to roll back the clock !   DAVY


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GP72ACe

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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
 
« Reply #18 on: Aug 6th, 2005, 9:23am »
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Quote:
I thought Penn Central was Pennsy........dont laugh
Not laughing; nobody's perfect.  Penn Central was the name of the merger of the New York Central and the Pennsy.
Quote:
There is a 21-mile so-called "race track" between New Brunswick and Trenton, NJ
Well, more of the PRR main line through NJ could probably support that running than the 21-mile segment (don't need to rely on the wires) but you'd either need to shut down the RR or upgrade the steamers' signals to ACSES...


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Pennsy
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Re: Mallard is fastest steam loco?
  atsf3751.jpg - 36504 Bytes
« Reply #19 on: Aug 6th, 2005, 12:51pm »
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Hi All,
 
Seems to me that the argument is moot. The USA never was in the race for the world's fastest steamer. Most data is not "official" since there was no one with a stopwatch and a carefully measured mile involved.  The Brits were, apparently, big in that area. We, on the other hand, were more interested in faster schedules and on time arrivals. There were no steamer powered schedules that relied on speeds over 100 mph to maintain their schedules. So, no interest in how fast they COULD or couldn't go.  
 
One of my favorite engines, still in service, is # 3751, ex-Santa Fe 4-8-4 Northern. Just about in my neighborhood. She routinely pulls lots of cars, with Santa Fe helpers in full red warbonnet livery. And does not exceed 100 mph. The condition of the tracks and associated freight traffic probably has a lot to do with that. In her present condition, she probably is capable of exceeding 100 mph, but who would authorize it Once again, a moot question.


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« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2005, 2:04pm by Pennsy » Logged

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