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   Author  Topic: Buffalo, NY DL&W  (Read 1161 times)
Henry
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Historian
Posts: 6088
Buffalo, NY DL&W Terminal
 
« on: Apr 17th, 2003, 1:58pm »
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In the Buffalo News today at http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20030417/1035437.asp
 
Note this only refers to the trainshed area of the terminal, the headhouse bit the dust long ago. I am fortunate to have had the opportunity to explore the abandoned ruins of the terminal area in the mid 70's as a teenager when I used to go on frequent day trip safaris by bicycle. It was quite a place in its day.
 
In the photo below the mirrored windows is where the headhouse was attached to the trainshed
 
Henry
 
 
Museum proposed for old DL&W terminal  
By SHARON LINSTEDT  
News Staff Reporter
4/17/2003  
 

 
DENNIS C. ENSER/Buffalo News
The Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society hopes to turn the old DL&W Terminal into a Harborfront Heritage Center.
 
The Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad station at the foot of Main Street in Buffalo is being eyed as the future home of a new $20 million Harborfront Heritage Center.  
The Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society is behind the proposal and is seeking $1 million in federal transportation dollars to conduct a feasibility study. William Seiner, the historical society's executive director, said the goal is to reuse the train station as a center to interpret the historic significance of the Erie Canal, as well as Buffalo's role as a key transportation link between east-west transportation routes.  
 
"The DL&W site is right in the heart of all those developments in our local history, so it feels like the right fit for what we want to accomplish," Seiner said.  
 
The project would highlight all of the transportation modes and methods located at the site, including passenger rail, commercial and passenger shipping, Buffalo's Erie Canal history and the industrialization of the city. It also would incorporate closely related topics such as immigration and U.S.-Canada relationships.  
 
Preliminary plans for the center call for acquisition of a grain elevator and a Great Lakes grain boat, as well as historic railroad cars and locomotives.  
 
The center also is viewed as a complement to proposed on-site glimpses of actual canal structures at the nearby Erie Canal Harbor site, which is moving into its final design stages.  
 
Rep. Jack Quinn, R-Hamburg, is supporting the historical society's $1 million request to advance the project. That request is now under review, along with a slate of other local transportation-related projects, in the House Transportation Committee.  
 
Seiner said he first envisioned reusing the circa 1916 train station as a Harborfront Heritage Center last year after visiting an industrial museum in Manchester, England, that was located in a former train station.  
 
"Being in that building set off a lot of parallels in my mind," Seiner said. "The space inside the DL&W is just so terrific. Not only does it offer wonderful exhibit space, you can imagine having a terrace restaurant overlooking the river, and there's space outside for activities."  
 
While the proposed heritage center is expected to hold interest for area residents, it also would be positioned as a cultural tourism destination, and as part of a statewide effort to create a series of interpretive venues to tell the story of the Erie Canal.  
 
William P. Condo, coordinator of the Western Erie Canal Heritage Corridor Planning Commission, said his group has had discussions with Seiner about the DL&W terminal proposal. Condo said it fits with his group's effort to establish seven canal interpretive centers across the state.  
 
"We're very aware of the project and support the concept," Condo said. "In fact, if it all gels, it should be a great center in a great building."  
 
Condo noted that while the canal heritage group is pushing for the interpretive center, the panel is leaving it up to the various localities to decide on specific sites. He said if the DL&W site does not work out, there are several other Buffalo locations that would fit the bill.  
 
One of the key hurdles standing in the way of the heritage center is that the historical society has no claim on the terminal building. The Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority owns the DL&W site and uses the first floor as its Metro Rail storage and maintenance shop.  
 
NFTA representatives said that they are aware of the historical society's interest in the building but that no talks have taken place.  
 
The terminal currently is on the radar screen of Bos Group, the designated developer of the Erie Canal Harbor Entertainment District.  
 
The DL&W is part of the group's master plan for the neighborhood, which also includes the mothballed Memorial Auditorium, the vacant Webster Block and the Donovan State Office Building. That master plan is expected to be unveiled in early May.  
 
 
e-mail: slinstedt@buffnews.com
 
 
 


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arnstg
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Posts: 212
Re: Buffalo, NY DL&W Terminal
 
« Reply #1 on: Apr 3rd, 2004, 11:00pm »
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 Although there goal is fine, I wish they would direct the funds for use on Central Terminal which needs them badly.

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Henry
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Historian
Posts: 6088
Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #2 on: Sep 7th, 2005, 10:34pm »
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Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:47:33 -0400
From: Jim Dent
Subject: News for former DL&W passenger terminal in Buffalo! (rshsdepot)
 
From the EL List...
 
NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment.
To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the
following URL into your web browser:
 
 
http://lists.elhts.org/listthumb.cgi?erielack-09-07-05
 
image003.jpg (image/jpeg, 250x113 28685 bytes, BF: 0.98 ppb)
 
Listers:
 
Today's (9/7), Buffalo News has a story about the interest from Seneca
Gaming Corp. into converting the former DL&W passenger terminal into a
casino in downtown Buffalo.  Apparently it is on a short list of three sites
under consideration in Buffalo.
 
I've included the story and also the link to the Buffalo News site in case
the story gets 'stripped' by the list server due to a photo being included
with it.
 
Regards,
 
Chris Thurner
 
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050907/1069028.asp
 
DL&W is casino front-runner
 
  _____  
 
Old riverfront terminal reportedly tops Senecas' list of 3 downtown sites
 
By SHARON LINSTEDT  
News Staff Reporter
9/7/2005  
 
The former Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad terminal, on the
waterfront behind HSBC Arena, has been mostly idle since the early 1960s.
 
A downtown rail terminal and adjoining city-owned parking lot has emerged as
the leading site for the Seneca Nation of Indians' Buffalo casino.  
 
Sources with knowledge of the Senecas' undisclosed "short list" of three
potential city casino locations said Tuesday the former Delaware, Lackawanna
and Western Railroad terminal, located at the foot of Main Street directly
behind the HSBC Arena, is the leading candidate.  
 
Built in 1917 as part of the DL&W rail and ship terminal complex, the nearly
block-long, two-story structure is currently owned by the Niagara Frontier
Transportation Authority, which uses the ground floor to house and service
its Metro Rail cars.  
 
Neither Seneca nor NFTA representatives would comment on the rumored casino
site on Tuesday. However, a Seneca source confirmed a contingent from the
nation, which included officials of Seneca Gaming Corp. and the nation's
Economic Development Committee, were given an extensive tour of the building
in late August.  
 
Seneca Nation President Barry Snyder Sr. said Sept. 1 he hopes to announce
the Buffalo location by the end of the month. Snyder and Rajat Shah, a
Seneca Gaming executive, confirmed the nation is focusing on three downtown
sites for a 120,000-square-foot casino that would open by late 2007.  
 
The vacant upper floor of the rail building - an enclosed space that's
approximately the size of a football field and overlooks the Buffalo River -
has long been viewed as the perfect location for the right development
project. While it has sat largely idle since the early 1960s, it has been
proposed as the site for everything from a shopping mall to museum space to
an office complex, but none of the ventures progressed beyond the design
stage.  
 
The building's heavy-duty construction and open-floor plan are seen as
making it well suited as a gaming venue. The sturdy construction, which
includes foundation piers extending about 80 feet below the building, opens
the door to adding several upper floors to the existing structure.  
 
Another plus is its location - right in the heart of the emerging Erie Canal
Harbor Entertainment District. It would offer easy access to HSBC Arena, the
planned Bass Pro Shops store in Memorial Auditorium and an adjacent Great
Lakes-Erie Canal museum, as well as the downtown waterfront and Naval &
Servicemen's Park, which are both undergoing an ambitious reconstruction.  
 
The Senecas also are said to be eyeing the so-called Cobblestone parking
lot, situated less than 50 yards from the south end of the DL&W terminal,
bounded by South Park Avenue and Perry, Mississippi and Columbia streets.
The 900-vehicle lot would have enough space for large-scale parking decks
that could be directly connected to the gaming hall.  
 
The city-owned surface parking lot, which is used for Buffalo Sabres games
and other HSBC Arena events, has been discussed as a future development
site. In the late 1990s, the city promoted the idea of locating a $25
million amateur hockey complex on the site. At that time, planners already
had envisioned construction of ramps to replace surface slots for rink and
event parkers.  
 
The Cobblestone district and the adjoining "Ohio Basin" neighborhood also
have the potential to provide sites for the Senecas or private developers to
create nearby housing for casino workers.  
 
This is not the first Erie Canal Harbor/Cobblestone neighborhood site the
Senecas have sized up. The nation is said to have made inquiries to HSBC
Bank earlier this summer about its Atrium Building property on Washington
Street.  
 
e-mail: slinstedt at buffnews dot com
<http://www.buffalonews.com/email/email_form.asp?author_dept_id=240>  
 
 
Christopher Thurner
 
 
The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
Sponsored by the ELH&TS
http://www.elhts.org
 
 
 
 
=================================
The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing
railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org


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NKP759fan
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Posts: 1712
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #3 on: Sep 7th, 2005, 10:45pm »
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I really hope that this whole plan doesn't happen.

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
RARITAN_CLOCKER
Former Member
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #4 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 12:06am »
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       From what I've read from several sources, the old DL&W terminal BUILDING itself (built 1917) was demolished in the late 1970s, and only the Bush trainshed remains. From what I understand, the sheds are currently in use by the city's light rail/subway line.

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RARITAN_CLOCKER
Former Member
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #5 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 12:11am »
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                                      ....one of the sources that state that the old Lackawanna terminal building itself was destroyed in the late ' 70s, leaving only the trainshed, was "RAILROADS IN EARLY POSTCARDS-VOLUME ONE: UPSTATE NEW YORK" by Richard Palmer and Harvey Roehl (1990)

« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2005, 12:12am by RARITAN_CLOCKER » Logged
JBS
Chaser
Posts: 69
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #6 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 8:01am »
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The main concourse was indeed demolished in the early 80's. I have a great porcelain enamel sign off the exterior that I bought from the demo contractor. What remains is the Bush shed and train platform on the second level with the metro using the area underneath the upper train platform.  
It sounds like they want to demolish the train shed and add several stories. That would certainly destroy what little railroad history is left of the old girl.


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RARITAN_CLOCKER
Former Member
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #7 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 10:08am »
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      JBS: Man, that old sign must be a crown jewel in your collection! It's bad enough the magnificent Buffalo terminal building was demolished instead of bieng preserved; now, the only remains of this grand Lackawanna structure are in danger of bieng lost forever. The United States simply does not get it. It's all about megabuck real estate deals, condos, casinos, and malls. Railroad history, or, rather, what's left of it, is truly disregarded with a blatant disrespect, especially since the old DL&W was a key element in the growth and development of Buffalo back in the 19th century. I heard that the waiting room and concourse were quite cavernous and elegant; maybe someone here has old pics or postcards in thier collection they can post here showing that grand interior. Let's hope for a miracle, fellow DL&W fans. The Eleventh Hour, for the SECOND time, is fast approaching for what remains of the old Buffalo terminal. "SAYS PHOEBE SNOW/WHO CANNOT GO/UPON HER TRIP TO BUFFALO/THINGS ARE NOT RIGHT/WE MUST NOW FIGHT/TO SAVE THE ROAD OF ANTHRACITE"

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Henry
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Historian
Posts: 6088
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #8 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 11:40am »
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The Library of Congress (LOC) has a decent collection of photos and data on the terminal at http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=hhphoto&fileName=ny/ny0100/ny0199/photos/browse.db
 
Back around 1977 or '78 as a teenager I rode my bicycle down there and explored the old terminal which was essentially in ruins at that time. Even in ruins, it was a beautiful building and worthy of preservation. Of course, our brilliant city fathers decided that the headhouse was a worthless eyesore and that the property was only useful as a maintenance and storage facility for the useless new money-pit of a light rail system nobody wanted to use and just about nobody still wants to use that idiotic "trolley" today. (That's a whole 'nother story) The headhouse was subsequently demolished after the 1979 survey of the site for the Historic American Engineering Record.
 
Here is a quote from that survey:  
 
"The Delaware Lackawanna, and Western (D.L.& W.) Railroad Terminal Complex was a regionally significant structure within the context of transportation.  The D.L.&W. was the oldest railroad station existing in Buffalo in 1979.  It was also the last of the five stations which operated in Buffalo in 1923 at the city's zenith as a major rail center.  Set on a prominent riverfront site, it retained its integrity of design."
 
Now doesn't that sound like something which should have been preserved? Obviously Buffalo's politicians leaned nothing from the tragic destruction of Penn Station in NYC in the middle 60's.  To further illustrate how stupid it was to raze to the headhouse, today the powers that be in the City of Buffalo seem to think that the region's architecture is somehow a tourist attraction. That might be true if some of the hundreds of architecturally siginificant structures destroyed in the past 40 years had been saved, but in my opinion the area politicians have always been in the pockets of the developers and contractors and sacrificing some history for a quick buck is still SOP for the Political Machine. If that sounds a little bitter, ramp up the anger factor by the order of magnitude of 10^22 or thereabouts.
 
I'm not one of the people who thinks that what is left is somehow historic. It has been bastardized into some sort of modern artsy-fartsy caricature of its true underpinnings. Nothing there looks like a station anymore.
 
I'm totally against the indians having sovereign territoty in Buffalo and the something-for-nothing mentality of casinos is no way to revitalize any self-respecting city. A casino sure as hell won't bring in a good kind of tourist to Buffalo.
 
I posted this as news, but it disgusts me from start to finish. I much prefer to remember the terminal as it was then than the awfulness of what is left now and the moronic things they want to do with it.
 

 
Henry


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RARITAN_CLOCKER
Former Member
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #9 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 12:19pm »
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       Henry: I can well sympathize with your intense feelings about what the fates held for the old Lackawanna terminal building in Buffalo, and what may happen to its old trainsheds. The Lackawanna, of course, was noted for magnificent stations; the Hoboken terminal and Scranton station are proud examples of the Lackawanna's integrity and pride. At least, these two historic structures are still with us; and the Hoboken terminal still is in use as a NJT hub. But the Buffalo terminal certainly deserved better. Built in 1917, and reflecting a glorious era when the railroads were truly the backbone of America, this once-proud structure certainly could have been declared a National Landmark, and restored to its former glory. So, sad to say, that the death of Penn Station in the mid-60s was largely in vain. America STILL hasn't learned its lesson. Just what we DON'T need now....more condos, more casinos, more malls.......and, what will be the "landmarks" for young people of the future? A 15-year old Taco Bell? A mall that dates back to the 1980s? Frustrating, infuriating, and sad.........

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Henry
Moderator
Historian
Posts: 6088
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #10 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 1:01pm »
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I downloaded the hi-res TIFF images of the data pages, de-skewed them, enhanced them and OCRed them. The LOC's American Memory Finder is a great resource, but as usual the gubbmint has done a terrible job of implementation so it requires a great deal of effort in order to share the material.
 
Here is the text, please forgive the crappy formatting by the web browser:
 
Henry
 


     Delaware, Lackawanna, and Western RR.         HAER No. NY-63
     Lackawanna Terminal (Buffalo Boat Depot)
     South Park Ave.
     Buffalo
     Erie County
     New York
 
 
 
 
       PHOTOGRAPHS
 
    WRITTEN  HISTORICAL  AND  DESCRIPTIVE  DATA
 
 
 
 
 
     Historic American Engineering Record
     National Park Service
     Department of the Interior
     Washington, D.C.  202&0
 
(End of cover page)
 
 
 
    HISTORIC AMERICAN ENGINEERING RECORD
 
      NY-63
 
   Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Station
 
 
Location:   South Park Avenue at the southern end of Main Street
    on the Buffalo River between Michigan Avenue to the
    east and the Skyway to the west in downtown Buffalo,
    New York
 
 
Date of Construction: 1917
 
 
Present Owner:  City of Buffalo
    c/o Director of Real Estate
    Office of Comptroller, 12th Floor
    City Hall
    Buffalo, New York 14202
 
 
 
Present Use:  Partial use of the site for cargo storage and ship
    repair, under lease arrangements with City of Buffalo.
    Otherwise property vacant since 1962.
 
 
Significance:  The terminal's double deck train shed, attributed to
    Lincoln Bush, is considered to be significant as an
    early example of the innovative use of reinforced
    concrete.
 
 
Historian:   Joan P. Schmidt, May 1979
    Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority
    18l Ellicott Street
    Buffalo, NY 14205
 
(End of Page 1)
 
 
    HISTORICAL DESCRIPTION OF THE   HAER No. NY-63
           Page 2
   DELAWARE, LACKAWANNA AND WESTERN RAILRAOD STATION
 
    SOUTH PARK AVENUE - BUFFALO, NEW YORK
 
The Delaware, Lackawanna, and Western (D.L.& W.) Railroad Terminal Complex was a
regionally significant structure within the context of transportation.  The D.L.& W.
was the oldest railroad station existing in Buffalo in 1979.  It was also the last
of the five stations which operated in Buffalo in 1923 at the city's zenith as a
major rail center.  Set on a prominent riverfront site, it retained its integrity
of design.
 
The 8.1 acre site, which was sold by the City of Buffalo and Conrail to the
Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority in 1979, is bounded on the north by
South Park Avenue, west by the Skyway, south by the Buffalo River and east by
Michigan Avenue.  The terminal complex consisted of four structures;  the train
shed and attached ticketing and terminal buildings to the west of the shed and
a brick signal tower/power house at the easternmost site boundary.
 
Erected in 1917, the terminal was the work of architect Kenneth M. Murchison,
with its double-deck train sheds, which are considered to be a significant
early example of the use of reinforced concrete, attributed to the D.L.& W.
Railroad's Chief Engineer, Lincoln Bush.
 
Architect Kenneth Murchison designed the shed and adjoining passenger terminal
to handle both train and steamer passengers.  The upper level tracks rest on a
reinforced concrete deck supported by concrete columns.  The six upper level
tracks accommodated passenger traffic and the three lower tracks were for
express shipments.      .
;
The Bush train shed was an important development in twentieth century railroad
facility technology and represented an innovative use of reinforced concrete.
Patented in 1904, this type of shed presented an economical alternative to the
large span glass train shed.  Each shed unit, composed of steel arched girders
carrying reinforced concrete slabs, spanned two lines of track and half a
platform on each side.  The roof contained skylights for light and deep slots for
the escape of fumes.  The D.L.& W. in Buffalo is among the oldest surviving
examples of the Bush train sheds.
 
The first moor of the two-story rectangular train shed (600' X 125') consisted
of various walls and reinforced concrete columns (on an approximate 27"X 27'
grid) that supported the second floor of the shed.  The exterior walls were
brick with long rows of windows alternating with wide bay track bed and.elevated
concrete loading platforms.  The western end consisted of two large rooms and
several small rooms separated by concrete block and wood-plaster walls.
 
The second floor was a reinforced concrete slab with exterior brick walls between
steel columns on the north, south and west faces.  The semi-weather-protective
roof consisted of arched concrete slabs supported by arched steel beams with an
extensive network of skylights along the peaks.  The entire second floor was
open with concrete platforms between track beds.
 
 
 
 
           HAER No.  NY-63
           Page 3
 
 
The ticketing and terminal buildings had steel Frames with various types of
masonry and architectural finishes.  The two buildings consisted of several
large waiting areas, surrounded by smaller utility and office areas.  The
waiting areas were of marble and plaster finish with cathedral ceilings and
the smaller rooms were generally marble, ceramic tile and plaster finish.
 
The brick building constructed as a combination boiler room and signal tower
dated from the same origins as its companion D.L.& W. structures, and was 36
feet wide by 55 feet long and 31 feet tall at the upper track level of the
train shed.  From ground level adjacent to the Buffalo fireboat location, the
building was approximately 65 feet tall.
 
The then Erie-Lackawanna Railraod abandoned use of the D.L.& W. complex in 1962.
Six and a half acres of property was eventually acquired by the City of Buffalo
through non payment of taxes with the remainder going to Conrail.  In the years
between 1962 and 1979, the structures deteriorated badly through an unfortunate
combination of neglect, vandalism, and systematic scavenging.  In the terminal
buildings, marble and plaster had cracked and fallen from the walls and
ceilings.  Also, marble had systematically been removed by scavengers for
salvage.  Door and window frames were broken, and the-marble steps from the
main staircases had been removed.  In general, the ticketing and terminal
buildings had been gutted, with the floors being covered by rubble from the
walls and ceilings.
 
A December 15, 1974 article in the Buffalo Courier Express' Sunday Magazine
stated that:
 "The rails and crossties have been removed from its six-track,
 elevated train shed, many of the tiles have fallen from the high
 arched ceilings of its waiting rooms, vandals have broken almost
 every window, weeds have grown through the cracks in its roof and
 pigeons have become the building's principal inhabitants.  Even
 the majestic marble staircase which curved from the main floor con-
 course to the second story waiting room has been reduced to rubble."
 
As for the signal tower, the interior, lower portion of which once served as
a boiler room, had been gutted by fire and was badly deteriorated.
 
In 1977, the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority (NFTA) settled on the
D.L.& W. complex as the most appropriate yard site for the maintenance and
storage of rail vehicles for the Buffalo Light Rail Rapid Transit (LRRT) system.
A major reason for this decision was the unique opportunity for covered storage
that would be offered by the rehabilitated train shed.
 
However, the NFTA proposal required demolition of the ticketing and terminal
building portions of the D.L.& W. site, in order to construct a complex ladder
track switching area to facilitate turning trains from their mainline alignment
to the individual storage bays of the train sheds.  Due to the local confinement
of the site caused by the Skyway, river, train sheds and South Park Avenue, these
 
 
 
 
           HAER No. NY-63
           Page 4
 
 
switching movements would have to be made directly beneath the ticketing and
terminal building.  The permanent underpinning of complex structures this size
and in their deteriorating condition and in an area requiring pile foundations,
was not considered practical or economically feasible.
 
Likewise, in order to construct the yard and shop site, it was necessary to
demolish the signal tower power house as its location would interfere with
the placement of a necessary loop track.
 
The LRRT project underwent an extensive federal Environmental Impact Statement
(EIS) process which included consideration of any structures having historic
status or potential status.  Local and New York State historic preservation
officials and groups were included in this process, throughout which the NFTA
was assured that the D.L.&W. was not worthy of consideration as a landmark.
 
In the two months following approval of the final EIS for the LRRT in December
1977, a local landmark designation for the D.L.&W. was conferred and then
rescinded by municipal authorities following a public hearing.  The historic
question lingered, however, and in November 1978 the terminal complex was
declared Eligible for Inclusion in the National Register of Historic Places by
the United States Department of the Interior.
 
Representatives of the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation (ACHP), New
York State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO), and all local historic preserva-
tion groups joined the NFTA and its funding agency, the U.S. Department of
Transportation and the Urban Mass Transportation Administration (UMTA) in an
on-site inspection of the D.L.&W. in January of 1979.
 
Subsequently, the NFTA advertised nationally for prospective developers for the
terminal and solicited all levels of government for prospective uses for the
buildings.  As no proposals were forthcoming, a Memorandum of Agreement was
executed and concurred in by UMTA, the NFTA, and the SHPO, with final approval
granted by ACHP by June of 1979.
 
The Memorandum contained permission for the NFTA to demolish the two passenger
buildings and the signal tower in return for assurance that the train shed would
be rehabilitated and preserved in accord with the U.S. Secretary of the
Interior's Standards for Rehabilitation.  It was further stipulated that the
NFTA would consult with the SHPO on rehabilitation and that an archival record
of the complex would be filed with the Historic American Engineering Record
(HAER) prior to demolition.
 
The foregoing narrative, complemented by negatives, photographs and drawings,
is intended to satisfy this requirement and constitute the HAER archival record.
A copy of this record has also been presented to the Buffalo Historical Society.
 



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RARITAN_CLOCKER
Former Member
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #11 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 1:10pm »
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Henry: Many, many thanks for taking the time to post all that fascinating history and highly-detailed trivia about the old DL&W station in Buffalo. Buffalo, it seems, is a city that cares little or nothing about its once-great railroad heritage. I guess I don't have to remind you of what has happened over the years to NYCRR's awe-inspiring Buffalo Central Terminal. The old Lackawanna terminal in Buffalo seemed to reflect the Hoboken terminal's lofty, high-ceilinged opulece. Truly a disgrace that all that maginificent, old-world craftsmanship was allowed to fall prey to mindless vandals and the elements. What a showplace that building would be today if still standing! And, imagine if, by some miracle, it was STILL in use as a passenger train facility? Anyone who knew the terminal while still in use is truly more fortunate than they realize.

« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2005, 1:11pm by RARITAN_CLOCKER » Logged
RARITAN_CLOCKER
Former Member
Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #12 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 1:17pm »
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Henry: tried to view the Buffalo terminal pics with the link you provided; I only could view the first pic, and could not enlarge it. When I went to try the view the others, all I got was "PAGE CANNOT BE FOUND" when I clicked on where a pic would be. Perhaps the site is having problems.

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Henry
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Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #13 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 1:24pm »
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Buffalo as a city doesn't care about its railroad heritage, but Buffalo has a LOT of railfans who do care and can't do anything about it.
 
Buffalo is about as down and out as an American city can be without having a natural disaster like Katrina. The short-sighted politicians have milked it for all it was worth for 50 years (they're STILL trying) and now it is 100% broke and being run by a control board. Taxes ae high as they can legally be and services have been cut to the bone in order to be able to pay patronage and the yearly union extortion for Police, Fire and education. Even with its pathetic financial plight, the Buffalo area is still a great place to live. No hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, tsunamia, floods, killer bees, baking temps, constant rain or other regional afflictions and it has four distinct seasons.  (not including Road Construction) The snowfall really isn't anywhere near as bad as the media makes it out to be and it isn't anywhere near as cold as places like Minneapolis. No daily traffic jams either, rush hour is a piece of cake compared to most cities. I used to get 4 miles home from working downtown in about 10 minutes or less. I have lived in a number of places and if Buffalo wasn't in New York State it would be #1 on my list of places to live. NYS is a hell-hole of taxation and political ignorance and corruption.
 
Henry


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RARITAN_CLOCKER
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Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #14 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 1:33pm »
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     Henry: Jersey City (NJ) through the 60's, was still very much a busy, bustling railroad town, with sprawling frieght and passenger yards, cavernous rail/ferry terminals, roundhouses, coaling docks, and too many other historically significant railroad buildings to mention. Today, only the proud 1889 CNJ terminal (minus its ferry terminal structure) still remains, restored magnificently at Liberty State Park. Nothing whatsoever remains of the massive Erie Terminal at Pavonia Avenue, nor does anything remain from the electrified PRR terminal at Exchange Place. For all practical purposes, nearly all of Jersey City's historic rail structures are now gone. In thier place, rises row upon row of high-rise condos and offices, malls, and new roadways. The railroads built Jersey City, but, today, they are virtually forgotten. Really tragic that the same mentality rules in Buffalo. Granted, restoring and maintaining a hulking rail facilty from another era is indeed a VERY expensive undertaking, but, just look at the GARBAGE that the govenment wastes thousands....if not MILLIONS......on. "BUFFALO: A TRAGIC TALE OF TWO TERMINALS"......

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Henry
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Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #15 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 1:33pm »
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on Sep 8th, 2005, 1:17pm, RARITAN_CLOCKER wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Henry: tried to view the Buffalo terminal pics with the link you provided; I only could view the first pic, and could not enlarge it. When I went to try the view the others, all I got was "PAGE CANNOT BE FOUND" when I clicked on where a pic would be. Perhaps the site is having problems.

 
The LOC makes it nearly impossible to link Memory Finder pages because of their poorly designed data retrieval system. It's a travesty that it hasn't been redone by now. That's part of what I mean about how they make it hard to share info.
 
Go here:
 
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/
 
and search (upper right on the page) for this:
 
Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad, Lackawann, Main Street & Buffalo River, Buffalo, Erie County, NY
 
Henry
 
P.S. In the above HAER text, THEY misspelled "RAILRAOD" several times and I left it that way as a matter of historic record.


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Henry
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Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #16 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 2:16pm »
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Here's an easier way to view them, I got sick of playing games with their URLs every time I want to share those pics.
 
http://www.buffalonet.org/trains/pics/dlw/dlwterminal/
 
Henry


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RARITAN_CLOCKER
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Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #17 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 2:57pm »
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   Henry: Multitudes of thanks from this die-hard anthracite road fan for posting those MAGNIFICENT photos!! To see what magnificent granduer was casually and carelessly allowed to decay and fall prey to the elements and vandals truly is nothing short of sickening. That must have been a truly elegant and magnificent structure in its heydey; I'm only glad that its architects are not around today. Right now, I'm looking at a pic from Larry DeYoung's "ERIE LACKAWANNA IN COLOR: VOLUME 4 THE EARLY YEARS", taken in 1961,  showing a SW-1 (still lettered LACKAWANNA) switching a modernized heavyweight coach while a PA (still in full ERIE livery) awaits departure to Hoboken with its train while it basks in the sun just outside of the Bush sheds. This scene was truly living on borrowed time back then. The interior shots of the Bush sheds after abandonment were eerily remiscent of the pics I've seen of the CNJ's Bush sheds at Jersey City, after the terminal closed down in 1967.

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Henry
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Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #18 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 5:19pm »
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on Sep 8th, 2005, 1:33pm, RARITAN_CLOCKER wrote:       (Click here for original message)
"BUFFALO: A TRAGIC TALE OF TWO TERMINALS"......

 
I missed that the first time around, Buffalo had FOUR terminals.  
 
The Erie's was gone in the 1930's and there are very few photos of that one anywhere. I have only ever seen one picture and it wasn't a very good one.
 
The Lehigh Valley had a magnificent terminal only a stone's throw from the DL&W terminal and it was of the same vintage. It was ripped down in the early 1960's and a state office building was built on its site. Another tragic architectural loss thanks to POLITICIANS.
 
Henry


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RARITAN_CLOCKER
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Re: Buffalo, NY (DL&W)
 
« Reply #19 on: Sep 8th, 2005, 5:46pm »
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           Henry: I never knew of the Erie's terminal in Buffalo. LV's elegant terminal, of course, I knew about, orphaned in the mid-50s so a new highway could take over the ROW leading to it. Sad to think that, at one time, Buffalo was indeed a MAJOR rail hub, serving passengers from many points. Today, it's only Amtrak, and, of course, its station is certainly not in the league of the former DL&W's or the LV's.

« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2005, 5:47pm by RARITAN_CLOCKER » Logged
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