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Topic Summary
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 7th, 2011, 12:51am
In recent years, I've heard about the PRR position light signals being converted over to colors.
 
Now, does this entail installing all-new signals, or simply installing modern color hardware in the old signal casings themselves?
 
I had also heard awhile back that the colorization of the old PRR signals was based on the old B&O system.
 
What is the story on this?
 
Appreciate any info.....
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 7th, 2011, 12:57am
Just came across this fascinating, highly-detailed page....
 
http://www.railroadsignals.us/signals/pl/pl.htm
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 7th, 2011, 1:01am
Excellent page on B&O's PL's........
 
http://www.navpooh.com/signals.html
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 7th, 2011, 11:15am
SM -  
 
Take a ride over to the tracks, and see it in use! It appears it was a fast, quick and sloppy conversion of old P R R  
practice to those established by B & O with its Color Position Light protocols.
 
It is astonishing to see! In a class with, "...the South won the war..."? Many of the locals here knew, all along, B & O  
had the better way...
 
.......................Vern..........................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 7th, 2011, 12:58pm
Vern.....
 
Appreciate the info!
 
Last time I was in the vincinity of ANY PL's was in late 2002, riding back to Penn on the LIRR, from my a visit to late pal Jimmy out on "The Island"!
 
Back in the days of the old PRR/H&M/PATH "joint service" through Journal Square, PL's abounded (too, PRR freight and commuter traffic once passed through this location, as you already know).
 
The old SIRT (being a B&O subsidiary until 1971), also used PL's.
 
Within the past several years, I heard that the MTA was in the process of converting the signals over to modern "subway style" signals.....
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 7th, 2011, 1:02pm
Dug this out of my files.....
 
http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Signal/aspects_us_pl.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 7th, 2011, 2:20pm
"A PRIMER ON B&O CPL SIGNALS"....
 
http://www.railroadsignals.us/cplprimer.htm
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 7th, 2011, 5:37pm
Another comprehensive page on B&O's CPL's.
 
Note that the first installation of these now-classic signals were on the subsidiary SIRT, which was electrified in 1925, when steam was replaced with new, subway-style MU equipment.....
 
http://mtnsub.org/features/cpl.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 8th, 2011, 2:42am
Excellent source of info/data/photos on ther PL's of the N&W....
 
http://cg-tower.com/nwsignal/Index/nwindex.htm
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 8th, 2011, 2:50am
Another good site dedicated to N&W's PL signals.......photos/data/etc.....
 
http://www.railroadsignals.us/signals/nwcpl/index.htm
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 8th, 2011, 8:52am
on Dec 7th, 2011, 2:20pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
"A PRIMER ON B&O CPL SIGNALS"....
 
http://www.railroadsignals.us/cplprimer.htm  

SM -  
 
This what I consider the "STANDARD" site which explains the inherent superiority of B & O - CPL thinking and practice.
 
Compare, while the "Philly People" had solid ideas, thinking and practices, too, it was hardly the same. Its own methods
worked well with companion CAB SIGNALS, used on Districts where needs demanded.
 
With both safety systems, after the "old guys" gone, instances of where "new hands" began to tamper with built in safety  
protections. We have cases of spectacular and catastrophic results.
 
......................Vern..................
 
 
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 8th, 2011, 10:35am
Vern....
 
Agreed!
 
The old saying goes:
 
"IF IT AIN'T BROKE.....DON'T FIX IT!"
 
Sheesh!
 
Why tamper with a winning system?
 
I've long found the subject of CPL's to be more than fascinating.....and, to think, thast at one time in the distant past, I thought it was only the PRR that utilized such unique signals!
 
Gee whiz...."eddy-cation" is a WONDERFUL thing, indeed!<G>
 
The LIRR still uses PL's; recall that, for many decades, the LIRR was under PRR's wing....the many hundreds of MP-54 MU cars surely told this tale well!
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 8th, 2011, 10:45am
PRR PL aspects.....
 
http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/railway/prraspec.htm
Posted by: ranger101 Posted on: Dec 8th, 2011, 10:45pm
Hi all,  
     Interesting thread.  I know that around my neck of the woods, SW Pa.  NS is currently changing over the old PRR position lights to color signals.  I have seen them called "Darth Vader" style signals.  When I'm feeling better, I'll get out and get some pics of the new signals and some of the PRR position signals that haven't fallen to the cutting torch yet on the Pittsburgh Division.  One place on Facebook called Altoona works has been documenting the changing of all the PRR signals in Altoona to color signals.  I guess by the end of next spring ALTO Tower will be history .  Better get up there and get your pics ASAP>
Posted by: ranger101 Posted on: Dec 8th, 2011, 10:51pm
Here is an example of a Darth Vader style signal:
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 12:39am
ranger101......
 
Thanks for hopping on board, and for relaying some interesting (albiet sad) info on the fate of the classic PRR PL's out in your area.
 
I must be honest here and admit right up front, that, up until a few years back, I had not the slightest inkling that these classic signals were about to become endangered species.
 
Yet another valuable link with railroading's rich past is slipping away from us.
 
These stalwart sentinals of the rails have been associated with the Pennsy for many decades......outside of the NEC, it's really sobering to know that, one day in the not too distant future, they will be a part of history, like the GG-1's and the MP-54's.
 
Time flies FAR TOO FAST for me, my friend!
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 1:11am
As I'd mentioned earlier, until 1967, the PRR and the H&M/PATH operated a "joint service" between Hudson Terminal (Manhattan) and Newark.
 
From the H&M tunnel portals westward to Penn Station (Newark) the H&M/PATH rapid trains shared the rails with PRR trains.
 
In fact, H&M/PATH motormen were required to pass a PRR book of rules examination until 1967, when the PRR withdrew from the active partnership with PATH, making the line to Newark an exclusive PATH operation, as it is today.
 
These vintage photos bring back many childhood memories of seeing the "tube" trains rolling beneath PRR PL's.......truly, a lifetime ago.....
 
"SM"
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?78220
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24759
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?127708
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24784
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?49826
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 9:41am
Ranger101 - SM -
 
Noted the three position color light, favored by N S. Going back with the Time Machine, seem to recall the general type  
a long time standard on earlier S R S lines. Compare, N & W relied on PRR PL.
 
In the P R R/ H & M views, linked just above, the signals a bit puzzling. Absent detailed history, it is unclear whether it  
held to traditional P R R displays, or had migrated to a changed display protocol.
 
And, so, this conjecture about today's practices. Consider widespread use of reliable radio/ telephone contacts between  
all operations people, in keeping the trains running safely. Perhaps it has made obsolete much need for either B & O or  
P R R once prevalent systems? The legacy signals could display much variety of subtle instructions! Ex.: On B & O, one  
needed to be alert to position of Lunar White (LW) lamp, and so on...
 
.......................Vern................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 10:08am
Vern....
 
You've raised a very interesting question, regarding the PL's along the H&M/PATH "joint service line", one that I'd often pondered, myself.
 
The only info I could go by was that found in Brian J. Cudahy's "RAILS UNDER THE MIGHTY HUDSON" (1975).....
 
"......under PATH management, the Newark route is no longer the 'joint service' it was in days gone by. PATH trains now have what amounts to their own exclusive third rail trackage, which Penn-Central trains cannot use or venture upon, which is leased from the railroad for a dollar a year......"
 
".......PRR position lights are giving way to color light signals. ac catenary has either been removed or deactivated, and PATH cars used on the route no longer have to be equipped with the Pennsy's cab signal system....."
 
".......only PRR-owned cars were ever equipped with cab signals during the 'joint service' days; the MP-38's and the 'K' cars were all so equipped, and only PRR cars could be positioned at the front and rear of trains; H&M equipment could only be placed in mid-train positions......"
 
".......during the old 'joint service' days, the H&M actually and literally shared trackage with the PRR beyond Journal Square, and motormen were required to pass a PRR book-of-rules examination. Since the line could be traveled by either a rapid transit or railroad train, smash-boards were installed at key points to prevent Pennsy engines from taking incorrectly set signals, and venturing onto tight trackage reserved for the shorter (and narrower) H&M/PATH equipment......."
 
"SM"
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 11:15am
SM -  
 
Superb research! Indeed! It does explain (and it is a case of note Date of Photo) why the "PL" displays often didn't "look right" vis-a-vis P R R practices...
 
.......................Vern....................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 11:35am
on Dec 9th, 2011, 11:15am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
SM -  
 
Superb research! Indeed! It does explain (and it is a case of note Date of Photo) why the "PL" displays often didn't "look right" vis-a-vis P R R practices...
 
.......................Vern....................

 
Vern.....
 
Recall, too, that, until late 1961, PRR electric and diesel (the latter to Bay Head Jct.) commuter traffic to and from Exchange Place also operated through Journal Square, in addition to the numerous freights.
 
The old "joint service" was abolished at the time of the (ahem!) ALDENE PLAN of 1967.
 
PRR's "WALDO" tower (seen in one of the old 1960's photos seen earlier) was located just a stone's throw from the H&M's JSQ station platforms (eastern end).
 
The old H&M "BLACK" cars, of course, never ventured onto the Newark line, until, in later years, when they were relegated to work train service, post-1967.
 
By this late date, you will remember, PATH cars no longer needed to be equipped with PRR cab signals.
 
One glance at the complex ganglia of PRR catenary and PL's in and around JSQ was MORE than enough to tell one that the Pennsy was the "big player" in these parts!
 
PRR catenary through JSQ became redudant after ConRail abolished electrified freight in the early 80's.....
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 12:02pm
A few more historic H&M views (at or near JSQ) showing PRR PL's and catenary.....
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?31308
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75665
 
http://www.davesrailpix.com/odds/nj/htm/hm17.htm
 
http://www.davesrailpix.com/odds/nj/htm/hm02.htm
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 1:47pm
Classic PRR sentinal at McElhattan, PA, 2001.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-sigbri-agd.jpg
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 4:04pm
on Dec 9th, 2011, 1:47pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Classic PRR sentinal at McElhattan, PA, 2001..... http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-sigbri-agd.jpg  

SM -  
 
Yes, this does have its considerations. It appears the left hand track set for running either direction. Else, it does make a point  
perhaps B & O had the elegant solution to various and subtle indications extending to "HOME" and "DISTANT" blocks.
 
It was - by definition of each line - difficult for P R R to emulate a display of LW + GRN + GRN on B & O. My own mindset and  
IMHO, P R R heavy into accompanying, on board CAB SIGNALS...
 
.......................Vern.................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:03pm
Vern/All:
 
B&O signal map (Dayton-Lima)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-day-lima.gif
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:07pm
B&O signal and track map (Louisville-Jeffersonville)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-signals-r.gif
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:12pm
The proud spirit of the B&O still surviving in 2008 (Nova, Ohio)........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-novsig-ssa.jpg
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:16pm
B&O PL at Dayton, 2001.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-signal-ags.jpg
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:36pm
Excellent page on the PRR/H&M/PATH "K" cars; the PRR-owned cars, as I've mentioned earlier, were the only ones equipped with cab signals.
 
A circa-1963 accident caused several cars to be scrapped, leaving a shortage of cab signal-equipped cars.
 
This was remedied by removing cab signal edquipment from the scrapped cars and installing these into cars that had been owned by the H&M, which accounts for some old photos of H&M cars at the points of "joint service" trains.
 
Several classic "joint service" photos on this page, affording some good views of PRR PL's.
 
I knew these classic cars well growing up, and, many years later, would be commuting on them to and from my job in lower Manhattan.
 
http://njerhs.org/NewSite/Kcar_tribute.html
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 8:45am
on Dec 9th, 2011, 5:03pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...B&O signal map (Dayton-Lima)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-day-lima.gif    

SM -  
 
The elaborate diagram (IIRC, a "Plate" in Engineering Dept. lingua?) surely one piece of painstaking work back at the old  
Baltimore G. O.! Note, in viewing, it established where a Signal point had both "HOME" and "DISTANT" installed displays...
 
......................Vern...............  
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 9:48am
Vern......
 
No doubt!
 
Clearly, some KEEN minds were employed by the B&O, once upon a time!
 
No room for dummies, pal!<G>
 
The B&O and the PRR were both unique, in that they both were Class One roads that operated rapid transit trains.
 
The SIRT was a B&O subsidiary, and the "joint service" to Newark was a parnership operation of the PRR and the H&M.
 
IMHO, the PL's (regardless of which road used them) were clearly light-years ahead of their time....even today, they remain ingenious examples of railroad technology!
 
"SM"
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:05am
SM -  
 
Style Note: P R R = PL. Compare, B & O = CPL!
 
Yes, it is near a Holy War! Always has been! <G>
 
.....................Vern.......................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:05am
Several old SIRT views, showing B&O PL's.....
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?115409
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?115357
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?22048
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?47117
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:19am
Caption for this depressing sight (an N&W photo) tells us that these are "removed PRR signals" at Canfield, Ohio......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-canfield-b.jpg
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:21am
Another old view at Canfield (N&W/PRR).........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-canfield-a.jpg
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 11:05am
on Dec 10th, 2011, 10:21am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Another old view at Canfield (N&W/PRR)......... http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-canfield-a.jpg  

SM -  
 
Can't immediately get to my OPEN & PREPAY STATION list (1962) to confirm.
Canfield, OH not sitting well as N & W. IMHO, likely an earlier WABASH RR point?
 
The photo gets a bit puzzling in that signals do not appear as "pure" P R R design.  
WABASH evidently did employ the P R R methods. In photo, where's the Center Lamp?
 
.......................Vern..................
Posted by: ranger101 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 11:46am
Here is a question that just came to my mind.  I was looking through my copy of Pensy in the Steel City, and I noticed that in the older photos the PRR was using semifores.  When did they change from these to the position lights?  Sorry if this is off topic all.
Tim
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:10pm
Tim -  
 
With your query, the P R R websites of possible aid. Yes, the mechanical, "semaphore" signals lasted quite late on selected branches.
 
My own perceptions of it, IIRC & FWIW, in both the more modern Systems, B & O and P R R products of the 1930s. It is clear B & O  
used its controlled S I R T as "test bed" on the new developments. Then, the long time legends the Model Railroad Club at Hoboken  
NJ (in D L W Station), and its extensive layout, used as an improvised "test bed" for the "signal theory" advances.
 
Recall, well to try to reconcile all of it with newly developed C T C systems. We know that the latest systems "hit their stride" in years  
just before WWII.
 
See old timetables, too, especially of P R R. It touted its safety systems, highlighting its Position Lights, Cab Signals, and Radio  
Communications on its Main Line passenger trains...
 
.........................Vern....................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:17pm
Tim/Vern.....
 
The PRR first put PL's into service on the Main Line, west of Philadelphia, in 1915, between Overbrook and Bryn Mawr.
 
At the beginning, rows of five lights were tried, then four; finally, the present arrangment of three was decided upon*.
 
*Source: "THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD: A PICTORIAL HISTORY", by Edwin P. Alexander
 
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:26pm
Related note:
 
CTC was first put into service on the PRR at Limedale on the St. Louis Division, in 1930*.
 
*Source:
 
"THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD: A PICTORIAL HISTORY", by Edwin P. Alexander
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:30pm
SM -  
 
Many Thanks! You are getting a good handle on first dates of the innovations!
E. P. Alexander acknowledged as authoritative...
 
........................Vern.......................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:36pm
Vern....
 
You are welcome!
 
Hey, I try to please my loyal customers.....<G>
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:46pm
Bettsville, Ohio (undated photo); note signal on left....it appears to be angled away from the ROW.
 
Possibly a reminder of a severed, removed crossing?
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-bell-bva.jpg
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:52pm
Ex-B&O signal at Dayton, Ohio (2001).....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-sig.ags.jpg
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 1:04pm
on Dec 10th, 2011, 12:46pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Bettsville, Ohio (undated photo); note signal on left....it appears to be angled away from the ROW.
 
Possibly a reminder of a severed, removed crossing?
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-bell-bva.jpg

SM -  
 
Not necessarily! It possibly hints at changes in the particular "Control Block" area governed. So that the installed signal  
simply brought around a quarter turn (ninety degrees) so as not to display spurious aspects to trains...
 
........................Vern.................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 3:17pm
on Dec 10th, 2011, 1:04pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

SM -  
 
Not necessarily! It possibly hints at changes in the particular "Control Block" area governed. So that the installed signal  
simply brought around a quarter turn (ninety degrees) so as not to display spurious aspects to trains...
 
........................Vern.................

 
Vern.....
 
Ahh, another distinct possibility, one that I had not considered!
 
Thanks!
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 3:43pm
All:
 
Just dug through my files, and did some quick research, via an H&M/PATH "history" website.
 
Unfortnately, none of the many rare views can be posted as a seperate link, so, all I can do is (short of posting page) is to relate what I found.....
 
The SUMMIT AVENUE H&M station ("JOURNAL SQUARE", by the 1920's) opened in 1912, at the same time that the PRR/H&M "joint service" to Newark began.
 
This long-gone station, which I remember clearly from my childhood days, was torn down in the early 70's, to make way for the present PATH TRANSPORTATION CENTER.
 
The earliest postcard views of this station (and adjacent PRR freight/passenger tracks) shows only semaphores.
 
A 1930's view shows that the semaphores are gone, and position lights are in place.
 
Interestingly, during the "joint service" days, westbound H&M/PATH motormen utilized two sets of signals, once out of the tunnels, east of JSQ.
 
H&M motormen on non "joint service" trains from HUDSON TERMINAL and 33rd ST. used conventional (color) rapid transit-style signals.
 
However, motormen on "joint service" trains bound for Newark utilized the PRR position light signals (recall that the motormen on this line were requiredto pass a PRR book-of-rules examination, prior to the end of the "joint service" operation in 1967).
 
This practice, of course, also was used for eastbound traffic.
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 3:55pm
Interesting PRR PL page, with some interesting history.
 
Vern......
 
Earlier, via phone, you were inquiring about just how long PRR semaphores were being used.
 
According to this page, by the late 1940's, 97% of the PRR's main and secondary lines were utilizing PL's.....
 
"SM"
 
http://www.prrths.com/Philadelphia%20Chapter/Signals/PRR_Signals.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 4:23pm
An excellent, detailed page on the ex-PRR "ZOO" Tower, perhaps the most famous of all "flying junctions"
 
As you might expect, today, "ZOO" is but a mere shadow of its former self.
 
A few good photos on this page, showing PL's.....
 
http://www.signalbox.org/overseas/usa/zoo.htm
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 4:42pm
SM -  
 
Hardly needs saying, I guess, but SIGNALS a deadly serious business! There is no room for error!
 
An odd, but true: http://www.prrths.com/Philadelphia%20Chapter/Signals/PRR_Signals.html  
See the somewhat flexible Rule 291 in handling of heavy trains...
 
It also explains the signal, somewhere in Ohio, set cross wise. Consider, what a train crew to do if  
they blew past a completely dark mast?
 
.........................Vern.......................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 5:54pm
Vern.....
 
Agreed!
 
NO WONDER signals have rightly been called "the eyes of the railroad"!
 
Old-time PRR rulebooks, for example, clearly show that this was NOT child's play, by ANY means!
 
This was DEAD-ON serious business!
 
Earlier this afternoon, I got to pondering why the DL&W never adopted the PL practice......especially given the fact that the legendary road was, indeed, quite adept at innovations!
 
I have 1950's PRR rulebook somewhere buried in the archives....I have to see if I can dig it out.....wish me luck!<G>
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 6:08pm
All:
 
Surely by Divine Intervention, I was able to locate the aforementioned PRR rulebook!
 
Who sez miracles are a thing of the past?<G>
 
Book was effective 10/28/56, and contains many revisions, which were cut out and and affixed over the old rules.
 
Needless to say, a number of pages are dedicated to signals, both text and diagrams.
 
The section headed "CAB SIGNAL RULES" is indeed a study unto itself, again showing that this was NOT a job for the faint of heart!
 
Far too much to go into detail here; let it suffice that a QUICK and NIMBLE mind was required for a job as a Pennsy man, back in the day!
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 6:17pm
A "modeling" page worth a look, showing PRR/B&O/N&W PL's.....
 
http://www.integratedsignalsystems.com/signals/RRSpecific.htm
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 8:15pm
Vern......
 
Earlier, you had inquired as to seeing if I could find anything in my 1956 PRR rulebook concerning what a crew should do when encountering a dead signal at a crossing.
 
Could not find anything "right on the mark", but, here is what I did find:
 
RULE #620:
 
"........if a signal fails to work properly its operation must be discontinued, and, until repaired, the signal is to be secured so as to display its most restrictive aspect......"
 
Also.....
 
RULE #27:
 
".......a signal imperfectly displayed or the absence of a signal at a place where a signal is usually shown, must be regarded as the most restrictive indication that can be given by that signal, except when the day indication is plainly seen, or when sufficient lights in a position light signal are displayed to determine the indication of the signal it will govern......."
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 8:31pm
All:
 
The following I thought might be of interest, from "FIRING ON THE PENNSY" (by Paul C. Dietz), a fascinating "journal" of a fellow who fired on the PRR, from 1943 through 1947.
 
This little book is a truly wonderful, nostalgic, and exciting diary of "life on the rails", long, long ago.
 
See if the following doesn't raise an eyebrow.....<G>
 
"......my engineman is Jim Campbell, for whom I have fired several times. He is very easy to get along with, and I like the way he runs an engine. Jim is working out his last year before retirement......."
 
".......The first time I fired for him, he confided to me that his eyesight was failing. He said that he made it a rule that his firemen verify all signals when he called them........"
 
"......If a signal was clear, Jim would call out 'CLEAR!' and, after the fireman verified the signal, he would respond with 'CLEAR!', and so on with the approach signal and the stop and go......."
 
".......Sometimes there was so much noise in the cab that hearing was difficult, so we used easy-to-read visual signals in addition to calling them, holding up one finger for clear, two fingers for approach, and three for stop and go......."
 
NOT for the faint-hearted fellow, surely!
 
Talk about TEAMWORK, though!
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:28pm
Some interesting information regarding PRR signal bridges, during the pre-PL, semaphore era.......
 
A standard truss design bridge was introduced on the PRR in 1902.
 
The first were used on the NY Division (to the Exchange Place ferry terminal at Jersey City); later, these bridges could also be found elsewhere, east of Pittsburgh.
 
Pipes on the bridge supports carried compressed air, which was carried to the signal mechanisms.
 
Originally, all signals were still of the lower-quadrant automatic type, and gave three indications per signal mast with two blades.
 
Early on, telephones were installed on these bridges to provide train crews with quick communication to the nearest interlocking tower*.
 
*Source:
 
"PENNSY STEAM AND SEMAPHORES", by Fred Westing
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:37pm
From the aforementioned "PENNSY STEAM AND SEMAPHORES".....
 
"......the Pennsy experimented with upper quadrant signals in 1907, and the newly-electrified (1910) line between Manhattan Transfer and Sunnyside Yards, used them exclusively. In the Hudson River tubes and Penn Station itself, color light signals prevailed, as did a few special signals at Manhattan Transfer......"
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:51pm
"SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR SIGNALS" (PRR CLEVELAND DIVISION, 1949)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-tt12-p47.gif
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-tt12-p49.gif
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 10:25am
on Dec 10th, 2011, 8:15pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...Earlier, you had inquired as to seeing if I could find anything in my 1956 PRR rulebook concerning what a crew should do when encountering a dead signal at a crossing...
 
RULE #27:
 
".......a signal imperfectly displayed or the absence of asignal at a place where a signal is usually shown, must be regarded as the most restrictive indication that can be  
given by that signal, except when the day indication is plainly seen, or when sufficient lights in a position light signal are displayed to determine the indication of the signal  
it will govern......."  

SM -  
 
With this one, should it state, RULE #627? The language about as explicit as one can expect! An unexplained "dark" signal read as a  
"most restrictive" indication. ("STOP and call the Office!")
 
BTW. Again we refer back to the signal, positioned a quarter turn out of plain view. I'm a bit puzzled in use of "crossing"? The particular  
signal had nothing to do with a possible and immediate highway crossing.  
 
In my conjecture, an estimation the governing Signal Control Block had been lengthened, and incorporated at least one other, earlier  
Control Block. It could have happened account, say, loss of a siding leading into a shipper.
 
Turning the existing (abandoned) Signal Head from plain view an unspoken order it could be safely ignored...
 
.....................Vern.................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 10:49am
Vern.....
 
Double checked '56 rulebook, and the aforementioned rule is indeed #27; in fact, on page 90, the last entry "printed as issued" rule is Rule #625.
 
The rule following had been covered over with a new, updated ruling (dealing with interlocking signals; Rule #629)
 
Note how it jumps from Rule #625 to #629!
 
Following page (91), begins with Rule #637 (note the gap between Rule #'s)
 
This rule deals with shunt-track circuts and interlocking limits......
 
"SM"
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 11:07am
SM -
 
Many Thanks! OK. So in the order of appearance, you cited Rule #27. Implicit in the way these publications prepared,  
we may estimate it was a very old Rule.
 
BTW. The apparent "gaps" in Rule Book, Tariff and other publications anticipated needs in future to add new items in  
the logical series. The later, "pasted in" revisions in Rule Book not unusual. Compare, such updates were rare - if at all -  
in Tariff publications. The latter were publicly filed with ICC and other regulatory agencies...
 
.....................Vern..................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 11:18am
Vern....
 
Most welcome, I'm sure!
 
I purchased this old rulebook down at the old "Hoboken Festival" (about 1985) for $3.00; certainly, I NEVER regretted the purchase!<G>
 
On the inside cover, are several more "updates", pasted in; the one at the top simply states:
 
"REVISIONS OF MARCH 1, 1964-----
 
"REGION--page 11
 
"Changed, Division--page 11, added.
 
Several other revisions are affixed to this page, all extremely "in depth".
 
These revisions were effective:
 
4/28/57
 
11/27/57
 
9/1/58
 
2/27/59
 
5/1/60
 
10/18/64
 
At the very bottom of inside cover:
 
"REVISION OF APRIL 25, 1965"*.
 
*
This was virtually two years to the day when the PRR would withdraw from the partnership with PATH for the "joint service" to Newark.
 
"SM"
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 11:24am
SM -  
 
The old railroad Rule Book publications were rather a secular Catechism, yes?
 
Except here, with mastery, one could get to run the trains! Do you happen to have any menus  
for appropriate and joyous Sicilian Ceremony?
 
.......................Vern......................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 11:29am
Vern.....
 
No......I haven't any old PRR menus that highlight Sicilian cuisine, BUT, all you need do is to check out the latest (related) postings at an undisclosed location.....<G>
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 11:39am
Vern/All:
 
The following excerpt is from a brochure issued just prior to the (ahem!) ALDENE PLAN of 1967, gushing shamelessly of just how much more commutes would be, after the plan took effect(!!)
 
This particular excerpt deals with the "improvements" being made to the former "joint service" line.....
 
".....as part of the Aldene Plan, a new eastbound track in the Newark-Harrison area is being constructed for PATH. The new track will seperate PATH's rapid transit trains from the Pennsylvania Railroad's tracks......."
 
"......In addition, improvements are being made to PATH's signal and power systems. After Aldene begins, PATH will assume the entire operation of the line between Newark and Journal Square, now operated under a joint arrangement with the PRR....."
 
What's that old saying, again?
 
Ahhh, yes!
 
"If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it!"<G>
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 11:56am
Nostalgic glimpses of a long-lost way of life....one that yours truly is fortunate to recall.....
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75669
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75666
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75670
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24760
Posted by: George_Harris Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 1:02pm
Vern called my attention to these signal discussions here a few days back, but I really have nothing to add.  
 
My acquaintance with both PRR and B&O signals began and ended with working on Washington Metro, first with the contractor constructing the replacement (much smaller!! ) for the Washington coach yard, and later with the General Engineering Consultant in the area of trackwork.  
 
I remember in part that, when looking at the Washington Union Station throat track and operations and the Pennsy signal and train control system, feeling like I had been thrown back to the 1920's.  
 
The Washington Terminal Company powered switch points were air-electric.  That is powered by compressed air and controlled electrically.  This gave you two things:  First, two things to go wrong.  If you lost air, which happened several times, the things would not move, and if you lost the electric circuitry, you could not tell them anything.  Second, they did not take a few seconds to move with the whirr of the electric motor.  Instead they slammed over instantaneously.  
 
The other thing was the numerous series of double slip switches in the station approach.  These things are rightly called puzzle switches.  You have three switch machines on these things:  One at each end to throw the switch points and the third in the middle to throw the movable frogs.  The number of impact points and not so great tie conditions made these things constant maintenance headaches.  
 
The other thing that gave the 1920's feel was the number of manned towers in the station operation.  
 
As to any form of technical comments on signals, I have none.  My understanding of the railroad world, except for a little bit on wheel tread shape and wheel position, starts at the top of rail and goes down from there.  There was quite a bit of new stuff there in this area:  The WTC and ex PRR tracks were in 140PS rail.  Huge stuff.  A lot of the yard tracks were in smaller stuff, 131RE, 100PS, etc.  For the new stuff, the yard was getting 115RE, and the shifted B&O tracks 122CB.  
 
I have told people that the workings of electrification are a mystery to me, but signalling is a black art, approaching a form of witchcraft.
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 1:16pm
George.....
 
"you have nothing to add"?
 
I beg to differ, my friend!
 
THANK YOU for sharing some great old memories!
 
I know I sure as heck enjoyed picturing what you described!
 
From my earliest days, the PRR's PL's had a truly mysterious aura about them; they were so totally unlike the "traditional" color light signals I knew so well on the E-L and the CNJ.
 
At Newark's Penn Station, there was a complex ganglia of these unique signals, and, just to be able to gaze at one from the platform was a treat!
 
Too, I can remember many "railfan window" rides on the old SIRT ME-1 cars, and watching the B&O PL's pass by......had NO idea at the time that I was taking part in history!
 
Right up until the ALDENE plan of 1967, the CNJ terminal throat at Jersey City was still a mind-boggling array of semaphores sprouting like wildfire from the signal bridges....again, I had not the slightest idea that I was seeing living history before my eyes.....a grand and colorful era in railroading that, even then, was living on borrowed time.
 
Ahhh, but what memories!
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 1:26pm
All:
 
Our good friend George stated that:
 
"signalling is a black art, approaching a form of witchcraft".....
 
Well, after glimpsing this fascinating page from England, I would tend to agree!
 
Man, talk about COMPLEXITIES!
 
Note that PRR and B&O PL's are included here as well.
 
QUITE obvious that PRR and B&O men certainly were in a realm unto themselves!
 
"SM"
 
http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/rail/sigs.htm
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 1:29pm
George -  
 
Great to get your commentary! Yes, indeed! Washington Union did have a distinct "time warp" feel to it! All of it reminded of  
times when the lines had much deeper pockets! The track arrangements wondrous. Yes, the continuing upkeep on all of it  
had to be challenging...
 
Signals as "black art"? There's much to that, and it gives me some comfort. As it always the "high stakes" game, everything  
must be absolutely correct and without ambiguity, all the time. So, I guess I know a few things about it, though I could hardly  
sit for a rigorous exam on any of it...
 
SM: Tho not in scope of your original query, another astonishing, "fun with trains" exercise in triumph of C T C on C B & Q,  
at least between CGO and Aurora, if not all the way to Galesburg. Ya' hadta' been there!
 
.........................Vern.....................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 4:25pm
All:
 
Interesting page from Great Britain; note "ground position light" signals are remiscent of those of PRR design.....
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_railway_signals
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 4:30pm
Another page from Great Britain; many links to photos and drawings here......quite a vaiety of interesting equipment, as you shall see......
 
http://www.signalbox.org/signals.shtml
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 4:36pm
Another interesting page.....
 
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/3-sigs/sigs-1.htm
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 4:45pm
The history of signals in France; be sure to spot the "DISQUE ROUGE" type.....
 
http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/railway/french.htm
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 4:55pm
Well-done page on the fallen ex-N&W CPL's.....
 
http://railsinvirginia.com/abandoned/ns_va_division_signals.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 9:33pm
An informative "international" signal page; take notice of small sections on PL's and CPL's (B&O/SIRT are mentioned here).
 
Also, photos of PRR PL's and CPL's along the CSX.....
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_signal
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2011, 11:27pm
A rare view depicting the "guts" of a classic "searchlight" signal.....
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SearchlightSignalMechanism.JPG
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 9:52am
Scroll down page for views of GRS type "VA" dwarf CPL's.....
 
http://arborwayrailroad.com/signals.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 9:57am
CPL photo on this GM&O "history" page.....
 
http://www.railarchive.net/gmogallery/photo039.htm
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 10:07am
on Dec 12th, 2011, 9:57am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
CPL photo on this GM&O "history" page.....
 
http://www.railarchive.net/gmogallery/photo039.htm

SM -  
 
On account the lines which went into G M & O. Part of it was the old ALTON ROUTE (Chicago & Alton), controlled by B & O.  
The ALTON line linked CGO - STL - KCY. So, for the purists out there, it is possible B & O CPL signals seen in KCY, ages back...
 
N.B.: From excellent G M & O site: http://www.gmohs.org/SecondaryPages/Maps.htm
 
.......................Vern.....................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 10:33am
Vern/All:
 
There are several photos of interest on this page showcasing vintage signals of many types; this fine gentleman has QUITE a collection, as you will see here!
 
This lucky fellow even owns an old SIRT CPL!!
 
DANG!!
 
Again, as we've stated earlier, the study of historic signals is indeed a fascinating topic unto itself.....
 
"SM"
 
http://www.rrsignalpix.com/zcollection.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 12:15pm
"INNER WORKINGS" on the B&O.....
 
http://www.navpooh.com/sigpics2.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 2:21pm
Just came across another good page on B&O CPL's (aspects given according to 1941 B&O rulebook).....
..
http://mtnsub.org/features/cpl.html
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 3:26pm
on Dec 12th, 2011, 2:21pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Just came across another good page on B&O CPL's (aspects given according to 1941 B&O rulebook).....
http://mtnsub.org/features/cpl.html

SM -  
 
All vaguely somehow tied to Astrology? Rule 291. Moon is in the Seventh House... Lunar White Ascendant... Home Signal in Mars...?
 
Rule 283. Home Signal in Venus... Lunar White Descendant?
 
.......................Vern..................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 3:52pm
on Dec 12th, 2011, 3:26pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

SM -  
 
All vaguely somehow tied to Astrology? Rule 291. Moon is in the Seventh House... Lunar White Ascendant... Home Signal in Mars...?
 
Rule 283. Home Signal in Venus... Lunar White Descendant?
 
.......................Vern..................

 
Vern.....
 
As I could not, for the life of me, get "in sync" with "The Age Of Aquarius" when it was dawning, what makes you think that I can do so now, over 40 years later?
 
Our good friend Mr. Harris indeed made a profound statement:
 
Signalling CAN indeed border on witchcraft!<G>
 
"SM"
Posted by: George_Harris Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 5:12pm
A comment on Alton Route and CPL's.
 
The GM&O was somewhat light on signals systemwide.  Remmeber, at the time of their takeover of the Alton, the management was still based on the realities of the GM&N.  What were they?  How to eke out a living from a basic territory that was the poorest side of the poorest state in the Union.  They got really good at it.  They were primarily a timetable and train order railroad with no more than a couple of trains a day each way on any of theri lines.  When they took over the M&O with its basic Southern Railway heritage it may have had a little more traffic, but was financially worse off.  With it they got what was their first piece of signaled teritory, the piece between just south of Jackson Tennessee and just north of Corinth Mississippi where the Illinois Central had traffic rights.  About the only other non-Alton piece was a relatively short distance in heavy grade territory southern Illinois where CTC was installed so that trains would not have to stop and throw switches.
 
Thus when they took over the Alton with its B&O heritage that gave them far more territory controlled by signals than they had prior to that time.  Hence, they had no reason to make any changes in the Alton for the sake of compatibility.  Nor did they wish to spend any money simply for the sake of cmopatibility to change anything else, as their was no connection between any of their signaled segments, nor any overlap in operating segments between these various signaled segments.  Thus, B&O CPL's lasted into the ICRR takeover, which in retrospect was the worst thing that could have happened to the GM&O, as it was for all prectical purposes their death.
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 7:03pm
George:
 
TRULY fascinating historical trivia, sir, and THANK YOU for sharing!
 
IMHO, there is so much of great interest when delving into railroad histories, where one road is taking over a portion of another, or a similiar scenerio.
 
Equipment, signalling, etc certainly all make for some great reading!
 
Again, appreciate your sharing this with us!
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 7:22pm
Classic "after dark" photo of N&W CPL's (Columbus, Ohio)......
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_leopard/4889025773/
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 7:35pm
All:
 
Just was doing a little more on-line research, and came across the following......
 
"......the N&W also adopted the PRR type of amber PL's, as the PRR had a 33% share in the N&W at that time. After the P-C merger, the former all-amber PL's were modified with twin red lenses in the upper horizontal position, to ensure recognition of 'STOP' signals at interlockings......."
 
"......the N&W also modified its all-amber PL's to include color during the 1950's......"
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 7:46pm
Excellent, detailed page (w/links) on CSX signal rules, depicting aspects of former PRR/C&O signals.....
 
http://www.oocities.org/mcivory2000/CSX_Signal_Rules.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 10:03pm
A truly nostalgic glimpse of the old VIRGINIAN (Kumiss, WV); note 5th comment down on this page....
 
http://www.flyerguide.net/viewphoto.php?id=383265
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 10:13pm
NKP/WABASH/IC crossing at Gibson, Illinois (1987).......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nkp/nkp-gibson-twr-m.jpg
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 12th, 2011, 10:49pm
No details given for this 1975 photo taken at Newark, NJ; clearly, this is the aftermath of an accident.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc-wa5sig-kga.jpg
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 13th, 2011, 1:35am
The first photo in the slideshow is of interest.....
 
http://www.abandonedrails.com/Sulphur_Springs_to_New_Castle
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 13th, 2011, 8:44am
George - SM - All -  
 
G M & O? A long while back, local Library had an excellent History on the shelves. Did a thorough reading of it. The line  
long a bold idea and concept of (IIRC) Taggart, who made it all happen. Yes, clearly recall much of the line started from  
some small carriers, for which there was little reason to expect much traffic and revenue...
 
M & O? Odd items I picked up, in my brief tenure with S R S, which kept records on much ancient history and archives  
in its Washington Offices basement? Examples of M & O, and Southern Railroad In Mississippi letterheads. It is still  
around here somewhere, IIRC...
 
...........................Vern...................
 
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 13th, 2011, 9:20am
Vern........
 
Recall our discussion over this past weekend, regarding 1956 PRR rulebook in my archives (effective 10/28/56)?
 
In the course of my research, I was lucky enough to come across the same issue rulebook "on line".
 
As I had mentioned during our earlier phone communication, there is a number of illustrations regarding PL's, and other interesting subject matter.....
 
"SM"
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-bor.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 14th, 2011, 12:24am
1925 PRR Book of Rules.
 
Scroll down page for numerous illustrations regarding both PL's and semaphores.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-bor25.html
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 14th, 2011, 12:00pm
PRR/LIRR ATC & CAB SIGNAL DATA (1938-1961)
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-cab.gif
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 14th, 2011, 3:38pm
PRR "pedestal" PL's......
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonroma/2386717367/
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonroma/2388395091/
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 15th, 2011, 2:02am
Vanishing sentinals of another era are these ex-B&O CPL's at Carroll (Baltimore), MD, 2010.....
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonroma/4864652573/
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 15th, 2011, 10:26am
Outstanding collection of photos dedicated to ex-B&O PL's........
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonroma/sets/72157600967355031/
Posted by: HwyHaulier Posted on: Dec 15th, 2011, 10:48am
on Dec 15th, 2011, 10:26am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Outstanding collection of photos dedicated to ex-B&O PL's........
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonroma/sets/72157600967355031/

SM -  
 
A bit off putting my E-Mail service notes this effort has 141 Attachments (Photos)? More than some wish to know during Christmas Week? <G>
 
.........................Vern...................
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 15th, 2011, 12:07pm
on Dec 15th, 2011, 10:48am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

SM -  
 
A bit off putting my E-Mail service notes this effort has 141 Attachments (Photos)? More than some wish to know during Christmas Week? <G>
 
.........................Vern...................

 
Vern.....
 
Well, perhaps a crash course in astrology would help to make some semblence of sense as to why "the Moon is in the 7th House", in respect to "clear" and "restrictive" aspects?<G>
 
"SM"
Posted by: CG_Tower Posted on: Dec 26th, 2011, 8:09am
More CPL information: http://cg-tower.com/cpl/
 
And more photos here: http://flic.kr/s/aHsjxqHCi4
 
CG Tower
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 26th, 2011, 10:56pm
on Dec 26th, 2011, 8:09am, CG_Tower wrote:       (Click here for original message)
More CPL information: http://cg-tower.com/cpl/
 
And more photos here: http://flic.kr/s/aHsjxqHCi4
 
CG Tower

 
 
Thanks!
 
Cool stuff!
 
"SM"
Posted by: SILVER METEOR 158-58 Posted on: Dec 26th, 2011, 11:05pm
More on the vanishing B&O CPL's.......
 
http://www.semaphores.com/resources/lists/BNOCPLs.html
 
http://csx.history.railfan.net/menusignals.html
Posted by: HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ Posted on: Dec 2nd, 2012, 10:25pm
"PAST MEETS PRESENT"(2005)
 
Recall, for decades, the PRR was the LIRR's parent company.......
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?46789
Posted by: HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ Posted on: Dec 2nd, 2012, 10:37pm
A CNJ shore train (NY&LB/NJC) passing beneath classic PRR position lights and catenary at the old South St. station in Newark, 1975.......
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4084
Posted by: charlie6017 Posted on: Dec 3rd, 2012, 9:48pm
Here are a couple shots of the position-light signals on the former Pennsy Buffalo Line just a bit north of Arcade in the Holland, NY area.
Posted by: charlie6017 Posted on: Dec 3rd, 2012, 9:50pm
Here is the second shot, which is closer to Holland. This is on the "Protection Rd" overpass. Both shots are looking geographically North.
 
Charlie
Posted by: HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ Posted on: Dec 3rd, 2012, 10:27pm
Charlie:
 
GREAT photos, my friend!!!
 
Never can get enough of those classic PL's!!!
 
"H.F.M."
Posted by: charlie6017 Posted on: Dec 4th, 2012, 4:56pm
Thanks my friend.......I agree, and trying to record them before they are all gone!
 
Charlie
Posted by: HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ Posted on: Dec 4th, 2012, 7:50pm
Charlie:
 
Back in my day, PRR PL's were plentiful in and around the Journal Square (Jersey City) area; the PRR, until 1961, operated suburban trains out of the waterfront Exchange Place station, and these, like the freights, passed through the H&M/PATH station area.
 
The H&M/PRR "Joint Service" trains, between Manhattan and Newark, also obeyed these signals.
 
Here we see a classic train of 1958 "K" Class-cars east of JSQ in 1961; note the PL's.
 
Yep, those were indeed the days.....
 
"H.F.M."
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?78220
Posted by: ClydeDET Posted on: Dec 4th, 2012, 9:13pm
Chico seemed to operate just fine (including running at three figure speeds across Kansas) with nothing but three color searchlight signals and (some areas) semaphores. i see no need for better than that. Heck - the Rick Island and Burlington ran the joint line from Dallas to Houston dark, on 90 pound jointed rail at up to 90 to keep the 265 miles in 265 minute schedule...
Posted by: Ronal_Fadillah_IRF Posted on: Apr 9th, 2018, 2:36am
Ask
Position light to indicate what?, is a indicate face? Incoming or shunting signal