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PRR position lights today
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   Author  Topic: PRR position lights today  (Read 1142 times)
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #20 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 11:35am »
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on Dec 9th, 2011, 11:15am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
SM -  
 
Superb research! Indeed! It does explain (and it is a case of note Date of Photo) why the "PL" displays often didn't "look right" vis-a-vis P R R practices...
 
.......................Vern....................

 
Vern.....
 
Recall, too, that, until late 1961, PRR electric and diesel (the latter to Bay Head Jct.) commuter traffic to and from Exchange Place also operated through Journal Square, in addition to the numerous freights.
 
The old "joint service" was abolished at the time of the (ahem!) ALDENE PLAN of 1967.
 
PRR's "WALDO" tower (seen in one of the old 1960's photos seen earlier) was located just a stone's throw from the H&M's JSQ station platforms (eastern end).
 
The old H&M "BLACK" cars, of course, never ventured onto the Newark line, until, in later years, when they were relegated to work train service, post-1967.
 
By this late date, you will remember, PATH cars no longer needed to be equipped with PRR cab signals.
 
One glance at the complex ganglia of PRR catenary and PL's in and around JSQ was MORE than enough to tell one that the Pennsy was the "big player" in these parts!
 
PRR catenary through JSQ became redudant after ConRail abolished electrified freight in the early 80's.....
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2011, 1:49pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #21 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 12:02pm »
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A few more historic H&M views (at or near JSQ) showing PRR PL's and catenary.....
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?31308
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75665
 
http://www.davesrailpix.com/odds/nj/htm/hm17.htm
 
http://www.davesrailpix.com/odds/nj/htm/hm02.htm


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #22 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 1:47pm »
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Classic PRR sentinal at McElhattan, PA, 2001.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-sigbri-agd.jpg


« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2011, 1:48pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3448
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #23 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 4:04pm »
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on Dec 9th, 2011, 1:47pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Classic PRR sentinal at McElhattan, PA, 2001..... http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-sigbri-agd.jpg  

SM -  
 
Yes, this does have its considerations. It appears the left hand track set for running either direction. Else, it does make a point  
perhaps B & O had the elegant solution to various and subtle indications extending to "HOME" and "DISTANT" blocks.
 
It was - by definition of each line - difficult for P R R to emulate a display of LW + GRN + GRN on B & O. My own mindset and  
IMHO, P R R heavy into accompanying, on board CAB SIGNALS...
 
.......................Vern.................


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #24 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:03pm »
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Vern/All:
 
B&O signal map (Dayton-Lima)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-day-lima.gif


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #25 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:07pm »
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B&O signal and track map (Louisville-Jeffersonville)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-signals-r.gif


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #26 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:12pm »
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The proud spirit of the B&O still surviving in 2008 (Nova, Ohio)........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-novsig-ssa.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #27 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:16pm »
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B&O PL at Dayton, 2001.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-signal-ags.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #28 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 5:36pm »
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Excellent page on the PRR/H&M/PATH "K" cars; the PRR-owned cars, as I've mentioned earlier, were the only ones equipped with cab signals.
 
A circa-1963 accident caused several cars to be scrapped, leaving a shortage of cab signal-equipped cars.
 
This was remedied by removing cab signal edquipment from the scrapped cars and installing these into cars that had been owned by the H&M, which accounts for some old photos of H&M cars at the points of "joint service" trains.
 
Several classic "joint service" photos on this page, affording some good views of PRR PL's.
 
I knew these classic cars well growing up, and, many years later, would be commuting on them to and from my job in lower Manhattan.
 
http://njerhs.org/NewSite/Kcar_tribute.html


« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:01am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3448
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #29 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 8:45am »
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on Dec 9th, 2011, 5:03pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...B&O signal map (Dayton-Lima)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-day-lima.gif    

SM -  
 
The elaborate diagram (IIRC, a "Plate" in Engineering Dept. lingua?) surely one piece of painstaking work back at the old  
Baltimore G. O.! Note, in viewing, it established where a Signal point had both "HOME" and "DISTANT" installed displays...
 
......................Vern...............  


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #30 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 9:48am »
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Vern......
 
No doubt!
 
Clearly, some KEEN minds were employed by the B&O, once upon a time!
 
No room for dummies, pal!<G>
 
The B&O and the PRR were both unique, in that they both were Class One roads that operated rapid transit trains.
 
The SIRT was a B&O subsidiary, and the "joint service" to Newark was a parnership operation of the PRR and the H&M.
 
IMHO, the PL's (regardless of which road used them) were clearly light-years ahead of their time....even today, they remain ingenious examples of railroad technology!
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2011, 9:49am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
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Posts: 3448
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #31 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:05am »
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SM -  
 
Style Note: P R R = PL. Compare, B & O = CPL!
 
Yes, it is near a Holy War! Always has been! <G>
 
.....................Vern.......................


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #32 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:05am »
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Several old SIRT views, showing B&O PL's.....
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?115409
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?115357
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?22048
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?47117


« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:12am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #33 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:19am »
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Caption for this depressing sight (an N&W photo) tells us that these are "removed PRR signals" at Canfield, Ohio......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-canfield-b.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #34 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 10:21am »
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Another old view at Canfield (N&W/PRR).........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-canfield-a.jpg


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HwyHaulier
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Posts: 3448
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #35 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 11:05am »
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on Dec 10th, 2011, 10:21am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Another old view at Canfield (N&W/PRR)......... http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-canfield-a.jpg  

SM -  
 
Can't immediately get to my OPEN & PREPAY STATION list (1962) to confirm.
Canfield, OH not sitting well as N & W. IMHO, likely an earlier WABASH RR point?
 
The photo gets a bit puzzling in that signals do not appear as "pure" P R R design.  
WABASH evidently did employ the P R R methods. In photo, where's the Center Lamp?
 
.......................Vern..................


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ranger101
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Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #36 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 11:46am »
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Here is a question that just came to my mind.  I was looking through my copy of Pensy in the Steel City, and I noticed that in the older photos the PRR was using semifores.  When did they change from these to the position lights?  Sorry if this is off topic all.
Tim


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HwyHaulier
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Posts: 3448
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #37 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:10pm »
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Tim -  
 
With your query, the P R R websites of possible aid. Yes, the mechanical, "semaphore" signals lasted quite late on selected branches.
 
My own perceptions of it, IIRC & FWIW, in both the more modern Systems, B & O and P R R products of the 1930s. It is clear B & O  
used its controlled S I R T as "test bed" on the new developments. Then, the long time legends the Model Railroad Club at Hoboken  
NJ (in D L W Station), and its extensive layout, used as an improvised "test bed" for the "signal theory" advances.
 
Recall, well to try to reconcile all of it with newly developed C T C systems. We know that the latest systems "hit their stride" in years  
just before WWII.
 
See old timetables, too, especially of P R R. It touted its safety systems, highlighting its Position Lights, Cab Signals, and Radio  
Communications on its Main Line passenger trains...
 
.........................Vern....................


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #38 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:17pm »
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Tim/Vern.....
 
The PRR first put PL's into service on the Main Line, west of Philadelphia, in 1915, between Overbrook and Bryn Mawr.
 
At the beginning, rows of five lights were tried, then four; finally, the present arrangment of three was decided upon*.
 
*Source: "THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD: A PICTORIAL HISTORY", by Edwin P. Alexander
 


« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:19pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #39 on: Dec 10th, 2011, 12:26pm »
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Related note:
 
CTC was first put into service on the PRR at Limedale on the St. Louis Division, in 1930*.
 
*Source:
 
"THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD: A PICTORIAL HISTORY", by Edwin P. Alexander


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