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PRR position lights today
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   Author  Topic: PRR position lights today  (Read 1146 times)
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
PRR position lights today
 
« on: Dec 7th, 2011, 12:51am »
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In recent years, I've heard about the PRR position light signals being converted over to colors.
 
Now, does this entail installing all-new signals, or simply installing modern color hardware in the old signal casings themselves?
 
I had also heard awhile back that the colorization of the old PRR signals was based on the old B&O system.
 
What is the story on this?
 
Appreciate any info.....
 
"SM"


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #1 on: Dec 7th, 2011, 12:57am »
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Just came across this fascinating, highly-detailed page....
 
http://www.railroadsignals.us/signals/pl/pl.htm


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #2 on: Dec 7th, 2011, 1:01am »
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Excellent page on B&O's PL's........
 
http://www.navpooh.com/signals.html


« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2011, 1:07am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3448
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #3 on: Dec 7th, 2011, 11:15am »
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SM -  
 
Take a ride over to the tracks, and see it in use! It appears it was a fast, quick and sloppy conversion of old P R R  
practice to those established by B & O with its Color Position Light protocols.
 
It is astonishing to see! In a class with, "...the South won the war..."? Many of the locals here knew, all along, B & O  
had the better way...
 
.......................Vern..........................


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #4 on: Dec 7th, 2011, 12:58pm »
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Vern.....
 
Appreciate the info!
 
Last time I was in the vincinity of ANY PL's was in late 2002, riding back to Penn on the LIRR, from my a visit to late pal Jimmy out on "The Island"!
 
Back in the days of the old PRR/H&M/PATH "joint service" through Journal Square, PL's abounded (too, PRR freight and commuter traffic once passed through this location, as you already know).
 
The old SIRT (being a B&O subsidiary until 1971), also used PL's.
 
Within the past several years, I heard that the MTA was in the process of converting the signals over to modern "subway style" signals.....
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2011, 5:41pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #5 on: Dec 7th, 2011, 1:02pm »
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Dug this out of my files.....
 
http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Signal/aspects_us_pl.html


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #6 on: Dec 7th, 2011, 2:20pm »
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"A PRIMER ON B&O CPL SIGNALS"....
 
http://www.railroadsignals.us/cplprimer.htm


« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2011, 2:21pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #7 on: Dec 7th, 2011, 5:37pm »
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Another comprehensive page on B&O's CPL's.
 
Note that the first installation of these now-classic signals were on the subsidiary SIRT, which was electrified in 1925, when steam was replaced with new, subway-style MU equipment.....
 
http://mtnsub.org/features/cpl.html


« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2011, 5:42pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #8 on: Dec 8th, 2011, 2:42am »
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Excellent source of info/data/photos on ther PL's of the N&W....
 
http://cg-tower.com/nwsignal/Index/nwindex.htm


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #9 on: Dec 8th, 2011, 2:50am »
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Another good site dedicated to N&W's PL signals.......photos/data/etc.....
 
http://www.railroadsignals.us/signals/nwcpl/index.htm


« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2011, 2:52am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3448
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #10 on: Dec 8th, 2011, 8:52am »
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on Dec 7th, 2011, 2:20pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
"A PRIMER ON B&O CPL SIGNALS"....
 
http://www.railroadsignals.us/cplprimer.htm  

SM -  
 
This what I consider the "STANDARD" site which explains the inherent superiority of B & O - CPL thinking and practice.
 
Compare, while the "Philly People" had solid ideas, thinking and practices, too, it was hardly the same. Its own methods
worked well with companion CAB SIGNALS, used on Districts where needs demanded.
 
With both safety systems, after the "old guys" gone, instances of where "new hands" began to tamper with built in safety  
protections. We have cases of spectacular and catastrophic results.
 
......................Vern..................
 
 


« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2011, 9:34am by HwyHaulier » Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #11 on: Dec 8th, 2011, 10:35am »
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Vern....
 
Agreed!
 
The old saying goes:
 
"IF IT AIN'T BROKE.....DON'T FIX IT!"
 
Sheesh!
 
Why tamper with a winning system?
 
I've long found the subject of CPL's to be more than fascinating.....and, to think, thast at one time in the distant past, I thought it was only the PRR that utilized such unique signals!
 
Gee whiz...."eddy-cation" is a WONDERFUL thing, indeed!<G>
 
The LIRR still uses PL's; recall that, for many decades, the LIRR was under PRR's wing....the many hundreds of MP-54 MU cars surely told this tale well!
 
"SM"


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #12 on: Dec 8th, 2011, 10:45am »
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PRR PL aspects.....
 
http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/railway/prraspec.htm


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ranger101
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Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #13 on: Dec 8th, 2011, 10:45pm »
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Hi all,  
     Interesting thread.  I know that around my neck of the woods, SW Pa.  NS is currently changing over the old PRR position lights to color signals.  I have seen them called "Darth Vader" style signals.  When I'm feeling better, I'll get out and get some pics of the new signals and some of the PRR position signals that haven't fallen to the cutting torch yet on the Pittsburgh Division.  One place on Facebook called Altoona works has been documenting the changing of all the PRR signals in Altoona to color signals.  I guess by the end of next spring ALTO Tower will be history .  Better get up there and get your pics ASAP>


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Rangers Lead the Way!

ranger101
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Posts: 986
Re: PRR position lights today
  bp162.jpg - 28814 Bytes
« Reply #14 on: Dec 8th, 2011, 10:51pm »
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Here is an example of a Darth Vader style signal:

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Signals/bp162.jpg
Click Image to Resize

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Rangers Lead the Way!

SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #15 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 12:39am »
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ranger101......
 
Thanks for hopping on board, and for relaying some interesting (albiet sad) info on the fate of the classic PRR PL's out in your area.
 
I must be honest here and admit right up front, that, up until a few years back, I had not the slightest inkling that these classic signals were about to become endangered species.
 
Yet another valuable link with railroading's rich past is slipping away from us.
 
These stalwart sentinals of the rails have been associated with the Pennsy for many decades......outside of the NEC, it's really sobering to know that, one day in the not too distant future, they will be a part of history, like the GG-1's and the MP-54's.
 
Time flies FAR TOO FAST for me, my friend!
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2011, 1:18am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #16 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 1:11am »
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As I'd mentioned earlier, until 1967, the PRR and the H&M/PATH operated a "joint service" between Hudson Terminal (Manhattan) and Newark.
 
From the H&M tunnel portals westward to Penn Station (Newark) the H&M/PATH rapid trains shared the rails with PRR trains.
 
In fact, H&M/PATH motormen were required to pass a PRR book of rules examination until 1967, when the PRR withdrew from the active partnership with PATH, making the line to Newark an exclusive PATH operation, as it is today.
 
These vintage photos bring back many childhood memories of seeing the "tube" trains rolling beneath PRR PL's.......truly, a lifetime ago.....
 
"SM"
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?78220
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24759
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?127708
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24784
 
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?49826


« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2011, 1:12am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3448
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #17 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 9:41am »
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Ranger101 - SM -
 
Noted the three position color light, favored by N S. Going back with the Time Machine, seem to recall the general type  
a long time standard on earlier S R S lines. Compare, N & W relied on PRR PL.
 
In the P R R/ H & M views, linked just above, the signals a bit puzzling. Absent detailed history, it is unclear whether it  
held to traditional P R R displays, or had migrated to a changed display protocol.
 
And, so, this conjecture about today's practices. Consider widespread use of reliable radio/ telephone contacts between  
all operations people, in keeping the trains running safely. Perhaps it has made obsolete much need for either B & O or  
P R R once prevalent systems? The legacy signals could display much variety of subtle instructions! Ex.: On B & O, one  
needed to be alert to position of Lunar White (LW) lamp, and so on...
 
.......................Vern................


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #18 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 10:08am »
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Vern....
 
You've raised a very interesting question, regarding the PL's along the H&M/PATH "joint service line", one that I'd often pondered, myself.
 
The only info I could go by was that found in Brian J. Cudahy's "RAILS UNDER THE MIGHTY HUDSON" (1975).....
 
"......under PATH management, the Newark route is no longer the 'joint service' it was in days gone by. PATH trains now have what amounts to their own exclusive third rail trackage, which Penn-Central trains cannot use or venture upon, which is leased from the railroad for a dollar a year......"
 
".......PRR position lights are giving way to color light signals. ac catenary has either been removed or deactivated, and PATH cars used on the route no longer have to be equipped with the Pennsy's cab signal system....."
 
".......only PRR-owned cars were ever equipped with cab signals during the 'joint service' days; the MP-38's and the 'K' cars were all so equipped, and only PRR cars could be positioned at the front and rear of trains; H&M equipment could only be placed in mid-train positions......"
 
".......during the old 'joint service' days, the H&M actually and literally shared trackage with the PRR beyond Journal Square, and motormen were required to pass a PRR book-of-rules examination. Since the line could be traveled by either a rapid transit or railroad train, smash-boards were installed at key points to prevent Pennsy engines from taking incorrectly set signals, and venturing onto tight trackage reserved for the shorter (and narrower) H&M/PATH equipment......."
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2011, 10:10am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3448
Re: PRR position lights today
 
« Reply #19 on: Dec 9th, 2011, 11:15am »
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SM -  
 
Superb research! Indeed! It does explain (and it is a case of note Date of Photo) why the "PL" displays often didn't "look right" vis-a-vis P R R practices...
 
.......................Vern....................


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