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Double-deckers/bilevels
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   Author  Topic: Double-deckers/bilevels  (Read 853 times)
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 1:37am »
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Gentlemen:
 
I thought this might make for an interesting topic.
 
Cars such as these have been used in commuter service for decades.
 
Though popular as locomotive-hauled cars in the Chicago area since the 1950's, the LIRR operated a fleet of MU double deckers, that lasted into the early 1970's.
 
Today, both the LIRR and NJT operate bilevels/double deckers in push-pull sets.
 
Personally, the cars do nothing at all for me, especially the NJT cars.
 
They (IMHO) are simply too bulky to be attractive; even modern single-level NJT cars have a more uniform and attractive appearance than these units, which, for all the world, more resemble truck-mounted condominium units than passenger rolling stock.
 
A former co-worker of mine, now an NJT conductor for a number of years, loathes them; he told me a number of his fellow conductors are not overly fond of them either, although, to be honest, some do not mind working them.
 
Excluding the old LIRR MU's (the only such MU's in the United States), I've always thought that the Chicago bilevels/double deckers of the 50's and 60's were the most handsome ever built.
 
Of course, that is only one (biased) man's opinion!
 
Here are a few photos of NJT's (and ACES) "mobile condominiums".......(!!)
 
"L.F.L."
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?103651
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?42084
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?96376


« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2015, 2:13am by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #1 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 1:54am »
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Here are a few vintage views of C&NW and BURLINGTON cars.
 
Though simple in design, they were both attractively designed and stylishly adorned.....
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnw/cnw-cu171jpa.jpg
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnw/cnw-cu183jpa.jpg
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cbq/cbq-co793jpa.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #2 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 2:00am »
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Port Jefferson (LIRR).....
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/li/li-cu5016reb.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #3 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 2:07am »
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Remembering those iconic, once-commonplace LIRR double-decker MU's*.......
 
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/doubledecker.htm
 
(courtesy: trainsarefun.com)
 
*only one car (a mid-train trailer) survives today at Riverhead, Long Island; the rest of this distinctive fleet, sadly, all met the torch many years ago.


« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2015, 2:08am by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #4 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 10:53am »
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Vintage shots of MILWAUKEE and ROCK ISLAND cars.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/milw/milw-cu0383jpa.jpg
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ri/ri-cc114dsa.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #5 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 11:00am »
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An interesting trivia note:
 
The C&NW was the first railroad to incorporate a commuter car design into that of a long distance passenger coach.
 
These innovative double deck cars were identical in exterior appearance to the PS-built commuter cars; the difference lie in the interior seating arrangements.
 
The long-distance cars sat 96, and could be operated with their commuter cousins, if the need arose.......
 
(source: "COMMUTER RAILROADS", by Patrick C. Dorin)
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2015, 1:22pm by CLASSB » Logged
TAB
Historian
Posts: 1910
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #6 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 3:13pm »
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.....from a previous post in this topic....
 

 
Would anyone have any information about this single car train?....I thought this was a bit unusual. A test train perhaps?.....Tom


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #7 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 4:14pm »
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Tom:
 
I can't be 100% sure, but I think that picture was taken of one of the new cars when on exhibit at Penn Station, Newark, to allow the public to inspect it, before the cars entered service.
 
I can't be at all sure, but it seems a reasonable guess.....
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2015, 4:21pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #8 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 10:13pm »
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Classic C&NW equipment on the move, 1976.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnw/cnw-commuter4.jpg
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnw/cnw-commuter3.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #9 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 10:18pm »
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A very interesting page (loaded with facts, as well as featuring a number of good photos) detailing double-deckers/bilevels both here and abroad.......without a doubt, some VERY interesting equipment can be found here!
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilevel_rail_car


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #10 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 10:24pm »
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Prototype and model photos of the CN&W's through train, the "FLAMBEAU 400", which, at one time, utilized bilevel gallery cars......
 
http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/flambeau.htm
 
(courtesy: trainweb.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2015, 10:27pm by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #11 on: Oct 24th, 2015, 7:22pm »
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To my way of thinking the Budd Hi-Levels for the Santa Fe were the best of the breed. Bar none. If they had only built sleepers (some were designed) to go with the rest of cars...

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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #12 on: Oct 24th, 2015, 7:37pm »
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on Oct 24th, 2015, 7:22pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)
To my way of thinking the Budd Hi-Levels for the Santa Fe were the best of the breed. Bar none. If they had only built sleepers (some were designed) to go with the rest of cars...

 
 
Cyde:
 
Certainly cannot argue with you there, my friend!
 
Those handsome cars were indeed in a class all by themselves.....not surprising at all, when one recalls the SF's regal stand on both passenger trains and related services..........
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2015, 7:38pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #13 on: Oct 24th, 2015, 7:45pm »
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Recalling the glory days of "Hi-Levels", on the SF, circa-1960.....
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-hilevel.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2015, 12:51am by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #14 on: Oct 24th, 2015, 7:51pm »
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Ex-SF "Hi-Liners" at Streater, Illinois, 1974.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-trn003dda.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #15 on: Oct 24th, 2015, 7:54pm »
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Chicago, 1971; very early in the AMTRAK era......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/atsf-HLCoa-dca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2015, 7:56pm by CLASSB » Logged
Les_Shepherd
Historian
Posts: 425
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #16 on: Oct 25th, 2015, 2:24am »
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This is a very interesting topic indeed. The Wikipedia article gives a good brief summary of development and application around the world.  US operators would do well to study what has been done around the world in this area. Certainly NJT have made some earnest attempts; one does conclude that they have been less than enthusiastic.
 
The article correctly records that the first all DD emu's were operated in Sydney in 1968. Almost all pre 1980 stock has been withdrawn and scrapped with new build, updated designs introduced. The network is all 8 car DD emu equipment. I will not bore you with photos unless you are interested.
 
I have always been dismayed at the very uneconomic designs and operation on US commuter railroads. For the most part the cars are very heavy requiring high powered de locomotives for push/pull operation. A lot could be learned from Europe for a start. I am unimpressed with the equipment in Paris. It is plain and basic with little to commend it. The multi-level cars used in TGV/Thalys services is more impressive. German medium distance trains are a mixture of emu and loco push/pull. My impression is that that could never decide on what seating configuration to use. They are at least comfortable.


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CHESSIEMIKE
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Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
  MARC_7911_Bilevel_small.jpg - 134192 Bytes
« Reply #17 on: Oct 25th, 2015, 7:05am »
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MARC has used some Bi-level cars in the past. Witness MARC #7911 on the tracks at Washington Union Station on 5/7/11. If the car looks familiar, it is an ex-METRA car that was built by Pullman. MARC leased an even dozen of these, but I think most have been returned.
CHESSIEMIKE


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/RollingStock/MARC_7911_Bilevel_small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2015, 7:16am by CHESSIEMIKE » Logged


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CHESSIEMIKE
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Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
  VRE_24_V879_small.jpg - 110257 Bytes
« Reply #18 on: Oct 25th, 2015, 7:11am »
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South of DC we have VRE which also uses some bi-level cars. If you look behind VRE #24, a GP40H-2 (Ex-NCDOT) you will see VRE #V879, a Gallery IV bi-level car built by  Sumitomo/Nippon Sharyo around 2009. The train is southbound crossing the Occoquan River, near Woodbridge, VA at 1732Hrs on 9/14/10.
CHESSIEMIKE


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/RollingStock/VRE_24_V879_small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2015, 7:14am by CHESSIEMIKE » Logged


Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Double-deckers/bilevels
 
« Reply #19 on: Oct 25th, 2015, 9:45am »
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Fellows:
 
Greatly appreciate both your input and your excellent photos....thamks for contributing!
 
LIRR's famed owl-eyed double-deckers of the late 40's were highly distinctive not only because they were the first double-deckers to serve a US railroad (commuter or otherwise), but they were also electric MU's.
 
These cars were retired in the early 70's by the MTA, and, it was not until many years later that the double-deck concept was revived on the LIRR: this time, however, the cars were non-powered, used in push-pulls.
 
Like most modern equipment, I did not care at all for them, finding them boxy and dull.
 
SF's "Hi-Levels" were both innovative and stunning; such equipment would never have been in vogue in the East, due to the limited clearances imposed by catenary, tunnels, and overpasses, especially in urban areas (recalling now low-clearance domes once operated by the B&O; under PRR catenary in the DC area, passengers were banned from riding in the dome area)
 
As I had mentioned previously, double-deck/bilevel/gallery commuter cars secured a strong foothold in the Chicago area starting in the 1950's, the total opposite of the clearance-tight Eastern commuter districts......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2015, 2:39pm by CLASSB » Logged
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