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Out of gas
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   Author  Topic: Out of gas  (Read 2186 times)
VentureForth
Historian
Posts: 1158
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #20 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 9:36am »
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on Oct 4th, 2003, 3:33pm, CHESSIEMIKE wrote:       (Click here for original message)
They don't run well, if they run at all.  The diesel fuel also acts as a lubricant for the injection pump and injectors, gas does not have this property.  Gas will clean all parts it comes in contact with of any lubricant that was there before and the resulting friction between any moving parts will finish them off.
CHESSIEMIKE

 
Different engines are designed for different fuels.  A Pratt & Whitney PT6 (aircraft turboprob engine) can pretty much run on anything from low-octane gasoline to Jet A to crude oil.  Of course, it's optimized to operate on Jet A, but if you were stranded somewhere, shot an iguana for dinner, the bullet went through said iguana into the ground below, and you struck oil, you're free!
 
Jim


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C420
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Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #21 on: Oct 11th, 2003, 8:19pm »
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on Oct 3rd, 2003, 10:09pm, ctempleton3 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
 Sombody mind explaing in detail what and why would happen if you ran gasoline in a desiel engine? I don't have anything evil that I wan to do. It just seem like an intresting question to find out the answer too.
 
- Charles Templeton

 
It will make a very loud bang , and may put some dents in the sheet metal.


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Charlie Ricker
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Posts: 2210
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #22 on: Oct 12th, 2003, 6:41pm »
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I used to work as a machinist years ago and we had this tool-crib attendant that took the company pickup to make a delivery. It was an old GMC with a 350 V8 and this bozo went to the gas station and proceeded to fill it w/ diesel fuel   The engine ended up being pulled!  

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~Charlie Ricker

NJ Railfan
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Posts: 3107
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #23 on: Oct 12th, 2003, 10:23pm »
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on Oct 12th, 2003, 6:41pm, charlie6017 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I used to work as a machinist years ago and we had this tool-crib attendant that took the company pickup to make a delivery. It was an old GMC with a 350 V8 and this bozo went to the gas station and proceeded to fill it w/ diesel fuel   The engine ended up being pulled!  

 
Ouch!  


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5727chaser
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Posts: 139
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #24 on: Oct 15th, 2003, 12:01am »
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Hadn't he ever driven a truck before?! I had to laugh at that...

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CN5710
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Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #25 on: Dec 7th, 2003, 1:55am »
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Happened to me once on #149 , had two CN 5700's and was running track speed then all of a sudden our speed was dropping and I went back to check the 2nd unit out and she was out of fuel , was able to run about 40 MPH on the flat track and 60 downhill to make it to Battle Creek with 1 unit .

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trainwatcher1100

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Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #26 on: Dec 7th, 2003, 6:56am »
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on Dec 7th, 2003, 1:55am, CN5710 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Happened to me once on #149 , had two CN 5700's and was running track speed then all of a sudden our speed was dropping and I went back to check the 2nd unit out and she was out of fuel , was able to run about 40 MPH on the flat track and 60 downhill to make it to Battle Creek with 1 unit .

Dave -
 
Who takes the hit for this when it happens? Used to hear it fairly often on the Lehigh Line under Conrail, and as an outsider looking in, I was always baffled by it.
 
In my ignorance, I would have thought that a) yards and terminals would see to it that outgoing power was properly fueled; and/or b) that train crews would do a pre-trip check before heading out, the way truckers and pilots do. Do railroads consider letting trains get stranded, or half-crippled like your #149, to be more efficient or cost-effective than preventive measures?
 
In your opinion as a railroader, what is the hole in the system that lets this happen? And why don't the railroads close it?
 
- Bob


« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2003, 7:10am by trainwatcher1100 » Logged
CN5710
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Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #27 on: Dec 11th, 2003, 12:34am »
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Well I got on my train @ Port Huron and my inspection cards were signed and were updated so why do I have to walk around the power and inspect it all ?  
 
Somone obviously forgot to fuel the second unit . This #149 comes all the way from the east coast , I think someone in a office probably thought the train had enough fuel to make it to the Battle Creek fueling facility .  
 
All I know is , my a** was covered  


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trainwatcher1100

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Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #28 on: Dec 11th, 2003, 5:02am »
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on Dec 11th, 2003, 12:34am, CN5710 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...All I know is , my a** was covered  

As Martha would say, "That's a good thing." - Bob


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CN5710
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Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #29 on: Dec 11th, 2003, 7:19pm »
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on Dec 11th, 2003, 5:02am, trainwatcher1100 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

As Martha would say, "That's a good thing." - Bob

 


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Coffee
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Posts: 1235
Re: Out of gas
  csxtank.jpg - 26794 Bytes
« Reply #30 on: Dec 24th, 2003, 9:12pm »
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And I thought I was the only one that did that in my trucks? A quick 5 gallons will last me the rest of the day...not so easy for a train's consumption.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Railroading/csxtank.jpg
Click Image to Resize

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Bob

Cleveland, Ohio

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Coffee
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Posts: 1235
Not out of gas but with a dead unit.
 
« Reply #31 on: Dec 24th, 2003, 9:19pm »
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A story told to me by an engineer over at Willard, Ohio  
 
Dec 13th.  
 
Nobody has helper service like we do in the Willard area. N 852 Lost its lead unit early this evening at Sullivan due to tripping low oil pressure.
 
So how did we fix this problem  With helper engines.
Q 133 pushed N 852 to Willard and cut off just outside of town.
Imagine a nice photo or video of trailer train pushing the coal train as helpers. Arrived Willard at 7:33 PM
A sight I would have loved to have seen.


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Bob

Cleveland, Ohio

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Pennsy
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Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #32 on: Dec 25th, 2003, 10:54am »
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Hi All,
 
That sort of reminds me of the incident when a freight train ran into the same difficulty. As it turned out, #844 Northern, UP, was right behind it with its Armour Yellow Passenger consist. After some radio calls to the authorities, #844 rolled up to the stalled freighter and shoved the train to safety. Suddenly #844 became a helper. An interesting side light was that the comments that followed, with the media, played with the thought, "Steam comes to the rescue of Diesel Power."  
 
Yes Virginia, There IS a Santa Claus. Happy Holidays to one and all.


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Dyed in the wool PRR fan.
ryder
TRAINing
Posts: 14
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #33 on: Jul 2nd, 2004, 3:30am »
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Would probably get soem sort of vapor lock , as most diesels are 18:1 & up compression ratio and just the fumes from straight gas would create ALOT of cyl pressure it is however OK to mix up to 20% gas in diesel ( some areas where non blended dieselfuel available they do ( of used to ) do this for auto/truck fuels in extreme cold.  newer expensive electronic fuel injectors  would be my bigger concern as well as other  sensitive sensors.

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Walt_C
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Posts: 2934
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #34 on: Jul 2nd, 2004, 11:18am »
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on Sep 30th, 2003, 11:12pm, BNSF_1088 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

I should try it and see what happens

 
 Do this ONLY on the day you retire and ONLY after you have purchased a one-way airplane ticket to Tahiti or Bora Bora!


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Please move to the rear and speed your ride-Regards, Walt
North49
Former Member
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #35 on: Apr 22nd, 2006, 2:54am »
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I've heard that it happens, more frequently than anyone would like to admite!   as to who gets the blame? the engines are SUPPOSED to be checked by the carmen or whoever made up, or whoever last refueled the egines at the originating terminal, and where they will need refueling is up to the RTC to figure out, apparently sometimes whoever is refueling a train will forget a unit or say "screw it" just to get the consist on the train and outta the yard.

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Grinch
TRAINing
Posts: 22
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #36 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 2:44am »
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Running out of fuel is a daily occurance.  There is no shop staff left to check fuel levels and the managers only worry about it if it occurs on their shift.  If you run out of fuel you better hope you have more than one engine or you will have to get an engine from another train.  A tanker truck from a fuel dealer can come to the rescue, but they need the Snyder attachment to hook up to the locomotive fuel tank.

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Gadfly
Railfan
Posts: 232
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #37 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 10:33pm »
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on Dec 25th, 2003, 10:54am, Pennsy wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hi All,
 
That sort of reminds me of the incident when a freight train ran into the same difficulty. As it turned out, #844 Northern, UP, was right behind it with its Armour Yellow Passenger consist. After some radio calls to the authorities, #844 rolled up to the stalled freighter and shoved the train to safety. Suddenly #844 became a helper. An interesting side light was that the comments that followed, with the media, played with the thought, "Steam comes to the rescue of Diesel Power."  
 
Yes Virginia, There IS a Santa Claus. Happy Holidays to one and all.

 
Would you believe that was on Modern Marvels just the other night?  We did that a couple of times at Charlotte Yard with Engine 2716 on the Southern.  I was working one evening when a steam excursion arrived in town.  The Yardmaster was frantic because he was short a couple of locos and it was "hotshot" time.  He  was talking to the Terminal Trainmaster who sort of eyeballed the steam engine cutting loose from the coach yard, and, suddenly, he caught up on the ladder and went up.  
 
"Trainmaster "Bill XXXXX to Charlotte Yardmaster, Over."
 
"Yardmaster to Bill XXXX, over."
 
I gotcha a little power here in the coach yard, OV-AH!"
 
 
"Hey, GOOD Deal, OV-AH!"
 
And Southern 2716 whistled off and backed down the Main to the South Lead with
Bill "Boogety Boogety" DXXXX grinnin' like a Cheshire cat out the fireman's window!  
 
And so it went for the next hour or two with the big 4-8-4 working Charlotte Yard. Even the regular crew seemed to be getting a kick out of it!
 
"AWRITE, SOUTHERN 2716, GO NORTH HIGH OF 36TH STREET, CROSS OVER, REACH IN NUMBER 10 "RABBIT" (TRACK), THEN PICK UP 11 RABBIT, 11 RABBIT (TRACK), SHOVE YOUR TRAIN INTO 12 RABBIT FOR #169, OOOOOOO-VAAAAAH!"
 
And the steam "switcher" did what it might have done 40 years prior as it chuffed and barked back and forth in the yard.  HeeHee, if the fans could've gotten into the yard.........but they were stopped by the railroad dicks.  WE got a ringside seat from our job assignments and crew trucks. I know, I know, I'm rubbing it in!
 
 Other times, the steam engines were assigned to trains as "following" sections of a scheduled freight, and it wasn't all THAT unusual to be off work and come to a crossing to DING,DING,DING,DING as the gates came down. Of course, you'd be expecting to see a big black diesel, but then there's this melodious whistle and it would be 4501 or NW 611 galloping along at 45-50! I don't know how anybody, fan or not, could resist a little smile.  And OH!  The looks on kids' faces!  
 
 
Gadfly


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Gadfly
Railfan
Posts: 232
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #38 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 10:52pm »
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ON the fuel thing.  Gasoline BURNS hotter than the lower grade oils and kero, etc, so
I expect you could do some bad stuff to a diesel by putting in gas.  I don't want to think about it!  LOL!
 
Gadfly


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rmgill
Chaser
Posts: 84
Re: Out of gas
 
« Reply #39 on: Oct 21st, 2007, 11:16pm »
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Actually, gasoline burns cooler than diesel or oil. It's heating value is proportional to it's viscosity. Thicker is more heat. My Military cargo truck (M35A2 with the multifuel engine) will handle diesel, kerosine, gasoline, and mixes of that. I've even dumped waste engine oil in the tank and it was just fine. Gasoline just burns different in a compression ignition engine. In the Continental multifuels, the combustion chamber and the injection pumps are just designed for it. If you burn gasoline in one, you get worse fuel economy.

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