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starting the loco
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   Author  Topic: starting the loco  (Read 2094 times)
CSX789
TRAINing
Posts: 10
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #20 on: May 12th, 2003, 11:15am »
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that helps

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North49
Former Member
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #21 on: Apr 26th, 2006, 4:20am »
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Im not an engineer but from what I know from talking to engineers and conductors it would go something like this if you came to a complete stop on a grade: while brakes are applied remove slack by reversing the train(like said before, so your not pulling the wheight of the whole train from a dead stop), throttle up and lightly apply sand if needed, begin to release brakes but not fully(to keep from rolling back), once rear end begins to move fully release brakes and throttle up. Like I said im not an engineer so anyone please correct me if im wrong, one day I'll be an engineer so its good to know  

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Pennsy
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Posts: 4586
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #22 on: Apr 26th, 2006, 10:25am »
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Hi North49,
 
Sounds good if you are pulling passengers, and okay for freight that might be fragile. However, quoting several sources; Today, we can put sufficient horsepower at the point of a freight so that the engines could tear in two any train it could not start from a dead stop. So, logically, this freighter would take up the slack, drop some sand and slowly notch up. The engines would then "lean" into the load, and walk away with it, accelerating up to the speed limit as it goes. At Cajon Pass, you can see this sort of thing, routinely, with 200 car freights and up to as much as 30,000 horsepower at the point. Remember, UP stands for Unlimited Horsepower.


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Dyed in the wool PRR fan.
prostock19
Historian
Posts: 486
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #23 on: Apr 30th, 2006, 10:39pm »
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On my Sub, we have some very steep grades.  The whole Sub seems to be either up or down with very few "flat" spots.  Depending on the size of the grade and the weight of the train, usually the engineer will release the air, and start notching it up to where he feels it will start to pull, and then slowly release the independent brake.  Some places, we have to be in Notch 8 before the train will start moving.  And, you want the slack stretched to avoid ripping the train apart.
 
The new SD70AC and maybe the SD70ACe, too, you can't roll backwards on them.  They have a feature that the engineers hate that if you start rolling backwards, they go into dynamic and you have to bring the train to a stop before you can try and go forward again.


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marklester002
TRAINing
Posts: 10
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #24 on: Mar 9th, 2007, 11:30pm »
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That one guy covered ,it (from the start),How do you start a locomotive?
Well it various,even from model to model! After  you (like he said) tramble with the inside to start its self,you Pull the reversver to "forward notch",you then put on the throttle lever to at leaset "notch one", now , cut the locomotive brake,and the Trainline airbrake(Automatic) brake down and boom!! You're off,if you're powered enough,IF Not,just simply pull till you get up to start speed desired! OH, NEVER FORGET TO SOUND BELL,THE HORN (AT LEAST TWICE), AND TO HAVE THE DITCH LIGHTS ON,BEFORE,OR A LITTLE AFTER YOU START!
         
NOT SO EASY NOW,IS IT?


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tbschwab
TRAINing
Posts: 14
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #25 on: Apr 26th, 2007, 2:19pm »
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first of all, make sure you have enough horsepower to move the tonnage you have, secondly, if you do stall on a hill you can do a number of things,  
 
1. make sure your sanders work
2. set your air to first service, let all brakes set up good
3. place throttle in reverse and back against train to bunch slack up
4. once eot reads moving on rear, stop, release air, start sanding and come out on the throttle slowly to get train moving.
5. by the time the train brakes release, you should have it moving again
 
if that does not work, you can:
 
1. double the hill
2. get  the train behind you to push your train
3. outlaw
 


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Digger
TRAINing
Posts: 3
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #26 on: Sep 15th, 2007, 12:20pm »
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on Apr 10th, 2003, 11:22am, CSX789 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
How do you start a loco ?

Hook the plus and minus wires up to the transformer and put a few drops of smoke oil into the stack for a realistic experience. Seriously if you don't work for the railroad and not qualified on a large complex / dangerous machine like a locomotive, why would you want to know? This should bring up an issue of security in the current envrionment we all live in since 9/11.


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Ranaldo20
Railfan
Posts: 224
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #27 on: Oct 2nd, 2007, 9:55pm »
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on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:20pm, Digger wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Hook the plus and minus wires up to the transformer and put a few drops of smoke oil into the stack for a realistic experience. Seriously if you don't work for the railroad and not qualified on a large complex / dangerous machine like a locomotive, why would you want to know? This should bring up an issue of security in the current envrionment we all live in since 9/11.

 
 
Well lets see... the board this is on is:   Railroading- What it is like to work on trains in the real world
 
Sorry guys, that just irks me.  Delete my smart alecky response if you wish!


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Birdman
TRAINing
Posts: 6
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #28 on: Nov 11th, 2008, 1:21am »
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Please, Please check the oil (including governor, if equipped) and water levels FIRST, I hate it when I get called over for a unit that won't stay running when started and its out of fluids. Air compressor oil too! LOL  

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Captain_Jack
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Posts: 3
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #29 on: May 5th, 2010, 5:42pm »
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I could tell you how to start a locomotive, but I might be putting information out there that I shouldn't. As a former Conrail locomotive engineer and system road foreman, I've run everything from GG-1s and  
E-44s to SD-80MACs and pre-Evo GEs. All have their own starting sequenses, especially the newer units equipped with computerized technology.  Some starting sequences are pretty involved, especially if
a locomotive hasn't been started for awhile.


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George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3824
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #30 on: May 5th, 2010, 6:28pm »
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on May 5th, 2010, 5:42pm, Captain_Jack wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I could tell you how to start a locomotive, but I might be putting information out there that I shouldn't. As a former Conrail locomotive engineer and system road foreman, I've run everything from GG-1s and E-44s to SD-80MACs and pre-Evo GEs. All have their own starting sequenses, especially the newer units equipped with computerized technology.  Some starting sequences are pretty involved, especially if
a locomotive hasn't been started for awhile.

Captain Jack:  This thread started about 7 years ago, and the last post was over a year ago.  However, I agree totally with your  answer.  There are some questions that should not be answered, and certainly not where they are accessible by anybody and everybody, which is the case with any forum of this nature.
 
This is a good time to say to any and all:  If a question seems a little strange, or very strange, reply with a why, ask for clarification, or simply say, as you have here, this is not a question to be answered in public.  Maybe this is being somewhat paranoid, but then maybe not.  One of my favorite lines from a movie, I think The Hunt for Rad October was, "I know I am being paranoid, the question is, am I being paranoid enough?"  And, I am not talking about the theatre of the absurd that passes for passenger security at airports.


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3439
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #31 on: May 6th, 2010, 9:35am »
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George -  
 
"Attaboy!" Bonus Points awarded. Gotta' love the line from "Red October"! It's true!
 
Have to strongly agree. Should anyone ask about possibly sensitive stuff, it is always well to apply a "need to know" test...
 
.........From The Bunker.................Vern.............................


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
cn2220
Historian
Posts: 3099
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #32 on: May 6th, 2010, 2:07pm »
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on Apr 30th, 2006, 10:39pm, prostock19 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
On my Sub, we have some very steep grades.  The whole Sub seems to be either up or down with very few "flat" spots.  Depending on the size of the grade and the weight of the train, usually the engineer will release the air, and start notching it up to where he feels it will start to pull, and then slowly release the independent brake.  Some places, we have to be in Notch 8 before the train will start moving.  And, you want the slack stretched to avoid ripping the train apart.

 
Yep, pretty much spot on. If you have enough power to pull the train, don't bunch up the slack, you're more likely to rip the train apart. Throttle up, kick the train brake off, kick the independant off, as the cars start to release throttle up to about notch 3 or 4. If you can't lift it in notch 3 or 4, try notch 5. Anything higher than notch 5 though and you're likely to get so much wheelslip you'll either start drifting back or you'll rip the train apart.
As the speed picks up, throttle up to notch 8.  
 
What's really fun is starting going downhill. Say if you go into emergency going down a steep grade. There's a trick to it, I learned from the old BCR hoggers. DB handle to full, release the train brake. As the speed picks up release the independant, once you have enough air for a set up take it and use your DB to regulate speed.


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Tyler

Long live the GE`s!!!!
PaulWWoodring
Enthusiast
Posts: 27
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #33 on: Nov 30th, 2010, 9:02am »
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I've had to do this with heavy trains that have been left standing on close to 1% grades before.  Not one of my favorite situations.  The potential to either have the train roll back uncontrollably and require an emergency application to stop, or break in two is high.  
 
First, know thy tonnage graph and profile.  It's not unheard of for the power desk to cut the amount of HP on the headend too close to be able to restart the train where it is standing, in which case you might as well just start calling for a helper set to get you over the grade you're on.  
 
If there is enough power (on paper anyway) to get the train started where it sits, there are a couple of old head tricks I was told about.  They require practice to do really well.  
 
First, it is not possible to get a gradual release on freight brakes.  The automatic brake valve must be moved to the release position to recharge the train line from any reduction.  However, if you move the automatic valve past full service, but not to the "handle off" position, you are in the "over-reduction" zone, primarily used for a couple of brake tests, but useful in the situation posed.  By going into the over-reduction zone, you create a situation where the brakes on the cars take longer to fully release from front to back, allowing the engineer to start moving the train gradually, not having to use excessive power to get the engines moving and risk breaking a knuckle.  This one's not in the book, you learn about it from old-heads.
 
The other possibility, and one which was mentioned above, is shoving-in the slack against the brakes, then releasing the brakes and trying to get the head-end moving slowly as the brakes release further back.  Again, there is a risk of breaking the train apart towards the rear if you have the front going too fast when the slack runs out on the rear.    
 
With either of these methods, it's important to have a sufficient amount of throttle applied before you start releasing the automatic brake and then the independent.  Also, you need to start the sanders as you release the independent (you don't want to do it too soon, or you might build up a pile of sand on the rails which will make it hard to move the train).  Oh, and just to add to the tension, if you have a consist of AC's, they do not like to go against the direction they are set for, and if they start getting pulled backwards, will fall out of power and transition to dynamic, putting the engineer in the position of not having any forward power to control the train.  It's also possible to pee away the air if it takes more than one attempt to get the train moving forward, in which case the conductor will not be pleased if he has to go out and tie the train back down so you can recover enough air to try it again!  In other words, if you are not a fully qualified engineer on both the equipment and the territory where the train is DO NOT TRY ANY OF THIS AT HOME, LEAVE IT TO THE EXPERTS!


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PaulWWoodring
Enthusiast
Posts: 27
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #34 on: Dec 1st, 2010, 2:51pm »
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I wanted to comment on the part of a previous post about going into emergency on a downhill grade.  Current rules on a certain Class I require the crew to have full control of the train when starting out, especially when starting out downhill.  Starting to move while recovering air from an emergency application would not be considered having control of the train.  Yeah, your conductor is going to call into question your parentage for having to tie-down all those hand brakes, but the chance of disaster happening if you don't isn't worth the risk.  If you can't get at least 40 psi in the train line, you don't have the capability of making an emergency application, and essentially have no air brakes!  Remember, it is possible to pee away too much air by making consecutive applications and releases.  
 
The crew has to tie enough hand brakes (usually spelled out in the Special Instructions in the employee timetable for that subdivision for any grade of sufficient severity) to prevent the train from moving while the engineer builds up enough train line air pressure to make an effective application (75 psi out of a possible 90 psi showing on the last car).  Then, once the engineer has enough air to make a service application, he makes a 10-15 lb. brake reduction and have the conductor release the handbrakes.  At that point he has enough air to apply the brakes, if necessary, to supplement the dynamic brakes when you begin to move downhill.  The same train handling rules also require that if the engineer can't get the train to slow down normally after having taken an 18 (out of a possible 26) lb. reduction, then the engineer should throw the air down into emergency and start the above recovery process.


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CN Sparky
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Posts: 49
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #35 on: Jan 9th, 2011, 4:02pm »
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on Nov 11th, 2008, 1:21am, Birdman wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Please, Please check the oil (including governor, if equipped) and water levels FIRST, I hate it when I get called over for a unit that won't stay running when started and its out of fluids. Air compressor oil too! LOL  

 
Make sure it's got fuel too!
 
Surprising how many run out of fuel, especially the older yard units.


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RRG2

Posts: 388
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #36 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 10:09pm »
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first step is to start the timecard. no one on here needs know more about "starting a loco."

« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2011, 10:13pm by RRG2 » Logged

EACH DAY IS A GIFT....NOT A GIVEN RIGHT
NightShiftLogger
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Posts: 16
Re: starting the loco
 
« Reply #37 on: Jul 12th, 2012, 4:47am »
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on May 9th, 2003, 10:43am, sd50 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Yes the starters are big. Some locomotives actually use the main generator as the starter and others use dedicated starter motors.

 I believe you mean the auxilary generator. As the main generator would not have any magnets created without the generator field switch on. Even then it would not be turning as the engine isn't yet. I say believe, because my experiance in with SW1200's and there may be other methods. After our repower it has been made simple. Push button start. There are two starters much like what you would find in your car. Just a bit ( not a lot ) bigger.


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