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PRR Pullman "interline" operations/Pullman discussion
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   Author  Topic: PRR Pullman "interline" operations/Pullman discussion  (Read 970 times)
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #100 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 12:40pm »
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Henry/All:
 
See the following......
 
http://buffaloah.com/h/rrds/tc.html
 
(courtesy: buffaloah.com)


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #101 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 12:51pm »
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Buffalo has not only lost the monolithic and stately LV depot of 1916, but also, its sleek, modern 1950's counterpart.
 
As was the case with the other roads serving Buffalo during the "Golden Years" of American passenger railroading, the LV's Pullman operations were simply a part of the everyday fabric that then comprised daily operations.
 
In later years, however, all of this would change, especially during the postwar era.....
 
http://www.forgottenbuffalo.com/forgottenbuffalolost.html
 
(courtesy: forgottenbuffalo.com)


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2016, 1:07pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #102 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 1:00pm »
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Some LV Pullman trivia:
 
".......the LV's postwar used passenger equipment acquisitions were the result of a federal government antitrust action of 1947, divesting the Pullman Company of its sleeping car ownership. As a result, the railroads served by Pullman purchased the company's stock, the LV contributing $248,600 as its share of the transaction....."
 
"........in 1949, the LV acquired from Pullman the fourteen sleeping cars operating over its route, with the provision that the Pullman Company would lease operation of its cars and continue to staff them with its own employees....."
 
From:
 
A HISTORY OF THE LEHIGH VALLEY RAILROAD" (Robert F. Archer)
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2016, 1:01pm by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #103 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 2:58pm »
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We have, sort of, THREE different operational patterns here (six if you count pre- and post-anti-trust break-up).
 
1. the "ordinary" Pullman-supplied cars and operations for a line's regular service (say NYC-Chicago, where the train ran terminal to terminal with as many cars as required for tickets sold, with extra sections if required). Cars were (mostly) Pullman marked, but for some premier trains had special paint jobs;
 
2. Actual inter-line runs, where a car changed railroads (or sometimes just trains - look into Santa Fe operations in Texas sometime, or the MoPac Eagles in Texas,  where they started at St. Louis and split into multiple destinations at a couple of Texas points, and did combinations running out of Tejas for St. Louis) to get where they were going. Example  being things like Penn-Texas, or the through cars from Chicago to the West Coast via Chicago or New Orleans;
 
3. Specials where pool cars were put together for seasonal or special event runs (Scout or Shriners Specials, football specials, Derby Specials to Louisville, etc.).
 
Ah, much to mull over (and pretty well impossible today because of lack of pool or reserve cars and limited routes).


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #104 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 3:15pm »
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Clyde:
 
I do not know if you have ever noticed this, but, over the years (in many books and articles) I have noticed that the the prewar HEAVYWEIGHTS are usually referred to as a "PULLMAN", whereas, very often, the term "sleeper" will be used to describe a modern lightweight postwar car.
 
I've pondered on this one for some time now.....no matter....a SLEEPING car is just that, be it a heavyweight or a lightweight (UNLESS you happen to be a card-carrying insomniac, like yours truly!)  
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2016, 4:29pm by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #105 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 5:59pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2016, 3:15pm, L. F. Lincoln wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde:
 
I do not know if you have ever noticed this, but, over the years (in many books and articles) I have noticed that the the prewar HEAVYWEIGHTS are usually referred to as a "PULLMAN", whereas, very often, the term "sleeper" will be used to describe a modern lightweight postwar car.
 
I've pondered on this one for some time now.....no matter....a SLEEPING car is just that, be it a heavyweight or a lightweight (UNLESS you happen to be a card-carrying insomniac, like yours truly!)  
 
"L.F.L."

 
I have noticed that. I SUSPECT the convention came out of the years immediately before the anti-trust attack on Pullman (brought on by Pullman's refusal to operate railroad-owned sleepers NOT built by Pullman; Budds on the Santa Fe, ACF or St. Louis Car on some others), when some of the railroads were buying non-Pullman sleeping cars for their light-weight trains. And Pullman was fairly active in protecting their trade-mark, so - well, there you are.


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #106 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 6:30pm »
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Clyde:
 
Thanks for your input; I see that I have not been the only one who has noticed this.
 
Somewhat ironically, in the world of model railroading (especially during the heyday of LIONEL) "PULLMAN" is a virtual universal term used to describe a sleeping car; "sleeper" however, seems to be a non-existent word here!
 
"L.F.L."


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #107 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 6:47pm »
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Taking a moment here to pay tribute to the "ABRAHAM LINCOLN", the oldest operating Pullman car in the United States........if only this historic car were granted the gift of speech for only a day.......
 
http://www.pullman-car.com/
 
http://www.pullman-car.com/history/History.html


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2016, 6:51pm by CLASSB » Logged
George_Harris
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Posts: 3819
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #108 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 6:47pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2016, 6:30pm, L. F. Lincoln wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde:
 
Thanks for your input; I see that I have not been the only one who has noticed this.
 
Somewhat ironically, in the world of model railroading (especially during the heyday of LIONEL) "PULLMAN" is a virtual universal term used to describe a sleeping car; "sleeper" however, seems to be a non-existent word here!
 
"L.F.L."

For many people of my parents age and older "Pullman" was treated as the generic term for a sleeping car operating on rails just as "Frigidaire" was treated as the generic term for a mechanical refrigerator, if they were not referring to it as an "Icebox"  Did not matter who the manufacturer actually was, these terms were the ones used.


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #109 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 6:56pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2016, 6:47pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

For many people of my parents age and older "Pullman" was treated as the generic term for a sleeping car operating on rails just as "Frigidaire" was treated as the generic term for a mechanical refrigerator, if they were not referring to it as an "Icebox"  Did not matter who the manufacturer actually was, these terms were the ones used.

 
 
George:
 
Agreed!
 
My mother, now nearing her 99th birthday (!!) will often STILL refer to the refrigerator as a "Frigidaire"; my late dad, who was an iceman for many years, ALWAYS (not surprisingly!) used the term "icebox" for a refrigerator.
 
Recalling the line from the 1933 hit, "Shuffle Off To Buffalo" ".......to Niagara in as SLEEPER, there's no honeymoon that's cheaper......."
 
I guess, in this instance, it was FAR easier to find a rhyme for "sleeper" than it would have been for "Pullman"!
 
"L.F.L."


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jmlaboda
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Posts: 389
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #110 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 7:36pm »
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Quote:
Taking a moment here to pay tribute to the "ABRAHAM LINCOLN", the oldest operating Pullman car in the United States........if only this historic car were granted the gift of speech for only a day.......

 
But you have to keep in mind when thinking about this car in that it was not a Pullman car but rather a coach built by Pullman and later converted to a business car.  Its only tie to Pullman is its birh...


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jerry
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ClydeDET
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Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #111 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 8:04pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2016, 6:47pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

For many people of my parents age and older "Pullman" was treated as the generic term for a sleeping car operating on rails just as "Frigidaire" was treated as the generic term for a mechanical refrigerator, if they were not referring to it as an "Icebox"  Did not matter who the manufacturer actually was, these terms were the ones used.

 
When I think of an overnight train ride in First Class accommodations - I think "Pullman", even though it has been a LONG time since Pullman operated the sleeping cars. Should be noted that Pullman was out of the owning cars by the time I was remembering things. Still Pullman Co. porters  when I was a kid, even if the cars were owned by the various roads. Now what was once a "Pullman porter" is now an Amtrak "Car attendant", and the last sleeping car trip wife and I took had an "attendant" who was well-trained, attentive and friendly as in the old days


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #112 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 8:14pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2016, 7:36pm, jmlaboda wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
But you have to keep in mind when thinking about this car in that it was not a Pullman car but rather a coach built by Pullman and later converted to a business car.  Its only tie to Pullman is its birh...

 
Jerry:
 
Perhaps I should have said "HONORARY Pullman".......
 
Still, a truly classic heavyweight, recalling the days when such massive equipment was de riguer on our rails......
 
"L.F.L."


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #113 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 8:25pm »
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Though hailing from Great Britain, the once-famous "BRIGHTON BELLE", the world's only all-electric Pullman trainset, should be at least briefly mentioned in this Pullman discussion.
 
This fine train (being restored today) was indeed a beautiful "belle", back in the day......
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_Belle


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2016, 8:27pm by CLASSB » Logged
jmlaboda
Historian
Posts: 389
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #114 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 8:38pm »
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Quote:
Should be noted that Pullman was out of the owning cars by the time I was remembering things.

 
Keep in mind that Pullman retained some cars well into the late-60s, sending them to scrap as the company relinquished those assets due to no longer needing them.  You may not have necessarily seen them but there were still cars around.


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jerry
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L. F. Lincoln
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Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #115 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 9:43pm »
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Recalling the "SLUMBERCOACH"......
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slumbercoach
 
The sleek and distinctive SLUMBERCOACH had the distinction of being the very last new Pullman-operated sleeping car design in company history.
 
Introduced in 1956, the handsome cars were originally called the "SIESTA COACH" by BUDD, but were dubbed "SLUMBERCOACH" by their first operator, the CB&Q.
 
The cars first saw use on B&O's "COLUMBIAN" in 1958.
 
Four cars were leased to the B&O and the M&P for assignment to the "NATIONAL LIMITED" and the "TEXAS EAGLE".
 
The NYC received four cars that were originally assigned to the "20th CENTURY LIMITED" and the "NEW ENGLAND STATES", while the NP's original four cars  served on the "NORTH COAST LIMITED", between Chicago and Seattle.
 
It should also be noted that Pullman staffed all but the NYC cars.
 
Thankfully, several examples of these distinctive cars still survive today......
 
"L.F.L."
 
(source: "THE CARS OF PULLMAN" (Welsh, Howes, and Holland)


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2016, 10:02pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #116 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 10:01pm »
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Ex-NYC Slumbercoach at Toledo, Ohio, in 1970............
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc10815dca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #117 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 10:11pm »
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Slumbercoaches of the "NORTH COAST LIMITED"......
 
http://www.streamlinermemories.info/?p=1445
 
(courtesy: Streamliner Memories)


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2016, 10:21pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #118 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 10:18pm »
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Preserved ex-CB&Q "SILVER REPOSE" in the collection of the TCRM.......
 
http://www.tcry.org/equipment/repose.htm
 
(courtesy: Tennessee Railway Museum)


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2016, 10:19pm by CLASSB » Logged
jmlaboda
Historian
Posts: 389
Re: PRR Pullman "interline" through service
 
« Reply #119 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 10:44pm »
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Quote:
Ex-NYC Slumbercoach at Toledo, Ohio, in 1970............
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc10815dca.jpg

 
 
 
What you have here is a Sleepercoach, not a Sumbercoach.
 
Rebuilt from Budd 21 Roomette sleepers they featured a similar but different 16 Duplex Single Room - 10 Double Room configuration compared to the Slumbercoach's 24 Single Room - 8 Double Room configuration.  The NYC's four leased Slumbercoaches went to the Northern Pacific while these cars took their place.


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jerry
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