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Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
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   Author  Topic: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road  (Read 177 times)
ClydeDET
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Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« on: Jun 28th, 2015, 6:28pm »
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Subject hotting up again. Proposed Texas Central HS road, private project, financed by Japanese bank. Much aggravation because it will take maybe 3-5K acres (over a 240 mile corridor) and some may use eminent domain procedures if owners get shirty about selling.
 
Less than 90 minutes, N700-1 Bullet train technology. Every half hour peak hours, every hour non-peak, 6 hours off for maintenance every night.
 
Running as early as 2021 (meaning I MIGHT see it it; I'll only be 78...). Price supposed to be competitive with air or driving/. Air I might believe, driving, not so sure. Maybe.
 
I understand just the end-point stations right now, but intermediates possible if demand seems to be there. Route map doesn't look like it will have much call for intermediates, though The Woodlands (north Houston location)  is talking about trying to get it to come through, and stop at, it.
 
We shall, i suppose, see.


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petey
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #1 on: Jun 28th, 2015, 8:09pm »
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Glad it's private funds.
Only intermediate I can think of is Austin.


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ClydeDET
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #2 on: Jun 29th, 2015, 11:39am »
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Initial line won't be within roughly 150 miles of Austin, well east. Now if that line works and they expand to Texas Triangle (Dallas -Austin-San Antonio- Houston), could probably make a six workable station operation. Likely involving dedicated sets, one group Dallas-Houston (MAYBE Fort Worth-Dallas-Houston); second group San Antonio-Houston; third group Dallas-Fort Worth-Austin-San Antonio. Possibly an intermediate at San Marcos or New Braunfels in the rather booming Austin-San Antone Corridor, but a stop sure eats time on the schedule.  
 
 
On  more-or-less direct route, i don't really see any intermediates that would be viable for a high speed service. be like taking Southwest from Houston to Big D - get on at one end, take it to the other and that's it.


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George_Harris
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #3 on: Jun 29th, 2015, 2:46pm »
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I have been following this all along, hoping to see things happen.  Dallas to Houston is the "natural" distance between end points where a high speed system should all but yank all the planes out of the sky as well as pull a lot more cars off the roads.  It could be an hour and a half easily end to end, and without all the plane related hassles be just about the same as flying or even better between airport security and walking out of the airport.
 
The terrain is made for rail.  Relatively flat and lightly populated for the most part.  For starts, buy the BNSF's former Burlington / Rock Island Joint Texas Division.  Some realignments and curve straightening would be in order, as we are talking 220 to 250 mph, not 90 to 110.  It would be nice to grab UP's ex SP line between Corsicana and Dallas to get rid of the little dog leg by way of Waxahatchie.  Some work would be needed to get a direct route into the center of Houston, but if the current lines into Dallas Union Station could be followed, and note I said followed, not used, direct access to the center of Dallas is already there.  AS to intermediate points you would have Corsicana on the north and could pick something to be a somewhat outlying Houston suburban station on the south, but for that I mean something along the direct railroad line, not to put in some form of dogleg.
 
If an essentiallty unlimited pot of money and political commitment were to be available, then it could be reasonable to build a series of lines somewhat as follows:
 
Dallas / Fort Worth, or Fort Worth / Dallas to Waco to College Station to Houston.
From that at Waco, go to Austin and San Antonio.
From College Station go to Austin.
 
While this would make each end point to end point time slightly slower, if you build a system that can run 220 mph plus between stopping points the additional time would be very small and total time still be fast enough to match  floying and by far beat driving.
 
Given that this would in each segment be far more expensive that the currently proposed direct Dallas Houston line, to attempt to start with this form instead of a direct Dal-Hou line would essentially kill the whole thing, so should not be done.  Once we can get any logical high speed system up and running anywhere the concept will sell itself after that.
 
If they get serious finally i may show up there.  I have been following this thing with interest for a long time.


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petey
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #4 on: Jun 29th, 2015, 7:58pm »
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« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2015, 8:06pm by petey » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #5 on: Jun 29th, 2015, 11:05pm »
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on Jun 29th, 2015, 2:46pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I have been following this all along, hoping to see things happen.  Dallas to Houston is the "natural" distance between end points where a high speed system should all but yank all the planes out of the sky as well as pull a lot more cars off the roads.  It could be an hour and a half easily end to end, and without all the plane related hassles be just about the same as flying or even better between airport security and walking out of the airport.
 
The terrain is made for rail.  Relatively flat and lightly populated for the most part.  For starts, buy the BNSF's former Burlington / Rock Island Joint Texas Division.  Some realignments and curve straightening would be in order, as we are talking 220 to 250 mph, not 90 to 110.  It would be nice to grab UP's ex SP line between Corsicana and Dallas to get rid of the little dog leg by way of Waxahatchie.  Some work would be needed to get a direct route into the center of Houston, but if the current lines into Dallas Union Station could be followed, and note I said followed, not used, direct access to the center of Dallas is already there.  AS to intermediate points you would have Corsicana on the north and could pick something to be a somewhat outlying Houston suburban station on the south, but for that I mean something along the direct railroad line, not to put in some form of dogleg.
 
If an essentiallty unlimited pot of money and political commitment were to be available, then it could be reasonable to build a series of lines somewhat as follows:
 
Dallas / Fort Worth, or Fort Worth / Dallas to Waco to College Station to Houston.
From that at Waco, go to Austin and San Antonio.
From College Station go to Austin.
 
While this would make each end point to end point time slightly slower, if you build a system that can run 220 mph plus between stopping points the additional time would be very small and total time still be fast enough to match  floying and by far beat driving.
 
Given that this would in each segment be far more expensive that the currently proposed direct Dallas Houston line, to attempt to start with this form instead of a direct Dal-Hou line would essentially kill the whole thing, so should not be done.  Once we can get any logical high speed system up and running anywhere the concept will sell itself after that.
 
If they get serious finally i may show up there.  I have been following this thing with interest for a long time.

 
George, it would sure enough enough take an unlimited pot of money to build the system you suggest. I don't think there is enough business (now or the foreseeable future) to justify a Corsicana stop. College Station, on the other hand, yes that would likely work. If they do build it, I think it ought to do SWA a real mischief, and they probably deserve it.
 
If it gets built and e are both still kicking, we'll meet, get on at Houston and ride to Dallas (or on at Dallas and ride to Houston) and back.


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HwyHaulier
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #6 on: Jun 30th, 2015, 8:00am »
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George - Clyde - Lodge Members -
 
Well, over the years, our (largely unelected) PTB have worked so hard to make a mess of airline services! We may suppose  
the "average Joe" (or Jose) frequent flyer well beyond exasperation.
 
For fact, your writer can beat air times, on a door to door journey, on the 375 mile run between NE Maryland and Buffalo.  
Also, an example of Syracuse, and the "via connecting flight", one can walk or bicycle the journey faster! Same way, NE MD  
and Akron, OH...
 
Meanwhile, George, you noted, "...as well as pull a lot more cars off the roads...". In railroad jargon, your writer must  
respectfully non-concur. The by now endless and abundant studies and proposals, in large part, express little understanding  
of the motivations and psyches of individual decisions in use of  private automobiles. With result that claimed anticipated rider  
participation of proposed projects are terribly flawed, or all wrong. Rather like, "...counting chickens before they hatch...", yes?  
Hmmmm...
 
Odd Air Service note. An item wherein United pulled out of service at Topeka (FOE). Now, the State Capitol without air service.  
The Topeka issue has always bothered this writer. Perhaps because it too close to Kansas City?
 
...........................Vern.................


« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2015, 11:04am by HwyHaulier » Logged

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petey
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #7 on: Jun 30th, 2015, 9:10am »
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Why is a political commitment required for something that is so desirable and needed?
This reminds me of the wild conjecturing promoting lines from the Eastern seaboard to California, since that line has been so successful.  Sure, it hasn't paid for itself since inception.
And since when has a 'lack of business' been a necessary consideration.  Isn't that what the typical bottomless pit of political funds is for?
 


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George_Harris
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #8 on: Jul 1st, 2015, 1:19am »
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Vern:  Maybe I should have said it slightly different from pulling a lot of cars off the road, however, I am convinced that if there is enough travel demand between Dallas / Ft. Worth urban blob and the Houston urban blob that a properly operating high speed rail line can justify its existence, and not solely by putting the Southwest Airlines passengers on the ground.  There will be people that either drive or avoid the trip altogether simply to avoid the hassle of going through an airport to avoid what is, if the stars are properly aligned, a three to three and one half hour trip.  It is these I am thinking about, not those whole will cease to drive only when the steering wheel is removed from their cold dead hands.  I see people like that in San Francisco that will go through the torment of driving into the city and pay $30.00 plus to park when they could have gotten to where they want to go in the city for $4.00 or so.
 
The plus part of the train trip is that if it takes 90 to 100 minutes, that is 90 to 100 minutes that you can be doing something useful instead of burning over half of it going through the processes involved in flying.  There is some real saving in hassle there.
 
While I think it would be logical traffic wise to go through College Station, I think geography and availability of right of way work against it.  
 
Yeah, Clyde.  2021.  I will be 76.  My health says I should make it, that is if we really did beat the colon cancer.  N700-1 technology.  N700 is what is in Taiwan.  At 300 kph, that is 186 mph, the train did not seem to even be working hard.  The only reason you knew you were going fast was watching the catenary poles go by like fenceposts.  I got to look over the driver's shoulder on some of the test runs, and there was no sense in any of it that you were anywhere near the edge of the possible and practical.  The big mistake in the alignment would be to build on the assumption that we have arrived at the maximum in speed on rails.  I do not think we have.
 
They are running 4 an hour.  My understanding is that they are positive in cash flow, but not making the payments on capital.  They are running 12 car trains comfortably full, and so far as I know the pre existing railroad is still running lots of trains.


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HwyHaulier
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #9 on: Jul 1st, 2015, 8:14am »
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George - Lodge Members -
 
Right! Diversion from air is much too easy, especially on point to point distances we have in mind here...
 
The massive numbers in folks in privately owned vehicles? Agree. Some diversion is possible, and likely would happen.  
There are large numbers of folks using automobiles so to have flexibility in times, scheduling, and individual  
itinerary demands. Doubtful much possible diversion here?...
 
Examples? Sales, marketing and tech support people on the road daily. In any case, possibly several stops at origin.  
Then, to travel to see any number of clients dispersed over a wide geographic area. Ah!  Plaints of the traveling salesmen...
 
Delights of San Francisco? That is why, when resident Menlo Park, your writer rode the ESPEE service frequently...
 
..........................Vern......................


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ClydeDET
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #10 on: Jul 1st, 2015, 8:49pm »
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George, IF it happens and on that schedule, i'll be 78, if the diabetes and related stuff doesn't get me. So far, I'm somewhat crippled up, but I think i may well reach that milestone. Gonna act like I will, and plan to drive to Big D on the Muddy T to take a ride to Houston (and back).

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petey
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #11 on: Jul 2nd, 2015, 9:09am »
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Best of luck to you Clyde, in achieving the goal of being ready to make that run.

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ClydeDET
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #12 on: Jul 2nd, 2015, 5:17pm »
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on Jul 2nd, 2015, 9:09am, petey wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Best of luck to you Clyde, in achieving the goal of being ready to make that run.

 
Thank you. I have hopes.


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George_Harris
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #13 on: Jul 27th, 2015, 11:04pm »
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A development mentioned in the trade press:
 
http://www.rtands.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/texas-high-speed-rail-project-names-new-ceo-gets-75-million-boost.html?channel=
 
The quick esssense is:
Quote:
The Texas Central Partners (Texas Central) Board of Directors has appointed Tim Keith as the new chief executive officer for the organization effective immediately.

Whether this has any significance or not, I haven't the slightest idea, in part because I don't know this guy from Adam's off ox.  The article does go  on to say  
Quote:
Texas Central also closed a round of development funding that brings $75 million dollars in new capital, all from Texas-based investors.
 
Maybe something really is finally about to happen.  Looks like there are people that will put their money where there mouth is.  People of course to make bad investments, but in general people who can come up with that kind of money did not get it though financial stupidity.


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ClydeDET
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #14 on: Jul 30th, 2015, 6:39pm »
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on Jul 27th, 2015, 11:04pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)
A development mentioned in the trade press:
 
http://www.rtands.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/texas-high-speed-rail-project-names-new-ceo-gets-75-million-boost.html?channel=
 
The quick esssense is:
Whether this has any significance or not, I haven't the slightest idea, in part because I don't know this guy from Adam's off ox.  The article does go  on to say  
 
Maybe something really is finally about to happen.  Looks like there are people that will put their money where there mouth is.  People of course to make bad investments, but in general people who can come up with that kind of money did not get it though financial stupidity.  

 
No, the people with that kind of money generally have some idea about what they are doing. Even if it doesn't always work out (I recall the Hunt silver play and following bankruptcy - they failed to consider that there were people who might change the rules on them).


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George_Harris
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Re: Texas High Speed RailwaY: Dallas-Houston High Speed Road
 
« Reply #15 on: Jul 31st, 2015, 9:38pm »
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on Jul 30th, 2015, 6:39pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)
No, the people with that kind of money generally have some idea about what they are doing. Even if it doesn't always work out (I recall the Hunt silver play and following bankruptcy - they failed to consider that there were people who might change the rules on them).

Yes, anytime you get into the political arena the rules seem to be subject to change.  When dealing in contractual relationships it seem that is also attempted quite often.  We call that "Calvin ball"  For those familiar with the cartoon strip Calvin and Hobbs, this is the game Calvin plays where he always changes the rules so that he wins regardless of what happens.


« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2015, 3:33pm by George_Harris » Logged
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