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Back In the Saddle Again....
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   Author  Topic: Back In the Saddle Again....  (Read 169 times)
ehbowen
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Posts: 242
Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« on: Dec 23rd, 2014, 4:46am »
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Stop on by the web site and check out the new schedules I've put up in the last month and a half (after a year and a half of taking it too easy!). FYI, they are:

  •    Atlantic Coast Line's Florida Special from 1949.
  •    The 1951 Lone Star, Cotton Belt's overnight service between Memphis and Shreveport/Dallas.
  •    The 1941 Morning Star, Cotton Belt's companion train between St. Louis/Memphis and Dallas.
  •    The 1951 Super Chief...the definitive edition of the definitive streamliner.
  •    The 1952 Louisiana Eagle, T. & P.'s service between New Orleans and Dallas/Fort Worth (via Shreveport).
  •    A nondescript Missouri Pacific motor local which my grandmother used to call, "The Chippy".
  •    The prewar City of San Francisco from 1938. 'Bout time!
  •    Santa Fe's third string, the Grand Canyon of 1966.
  •    Another Santa Fe entry from 1966, the California Special.
  •    The 1971 Rio Grande Zephyr and Burlington's companion California Service between Chicago and Ogden.
  •    An update to the 1950 Sam Houston Zephyr page; it now includes the Twin Star Rocket between Fort Worth and Houston as well as a B-RI local.
  •    And, finally, a major update to the 1971 City of Los Angeles page; it now includes all of the various City sections which made it known as the "City of Everywhere."

 
Have a look and I'd like to hear some comments and feedback...and I might even take a few request for the future!


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--------Eric H. Bowen

Now 200 classic timetables online, transcribed into machine-readable and searchable format:

Check it out here: Streamliner Schedules!

Historic timetables of the great trains of the past!
ClydeDET
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #1 on: Dec 23rd, 2014, 8:34pm »
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Oh, good. I have had occasion to look up certain trains that i knew were there, but been a few weeks since i was on the site. Will be poking at these.
 
Thanks, Eric.
 
PS - have a 1944 Guide so the Santa Fe service from Dallas to San Francisco could be put up? Thinking of requests... That would be the one I got to ride at about a year old, with Mom of course (she had a lower, and has described the trip - quite an adventure for a young Navy wife with a baby).


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ehbowen
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Posts: 242
Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #2 on: Dec 24th, 2014, 1:09am »
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on Dec 23rd, 2014, 8:34pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)
PS - have a 1944 Guide so the Santa Fe service from Dallas to San Francisco could be put up? Thinking of requests... That would be the one I got to ride at about a year old, with Mom of course (she had a lower, and has described the trip - quite an adventure for a young Navy wife with a baby).

 
Of course! Which is closer, March 1944 or August 1944? August 1944 is my baby...the oldest original paper Guide I own, and in near-perfect condition. March 1944 is scanned on disk.
 
I probably should do more wartime schedules, but it really helps if I have personal reminiscences to put the information in context...even if they're secondhand, such as from your Mom.
 
I'd like to hear more. Meantime, I will start looking into the 1944 California Special.


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ClydeDET
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #3 on: Dec 24th, 2014, 11:19pm »
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I think March would be closest, but either would probably be pretty close.
 
I'll try to get my bump of memory going and post the tale, second hand though it is. It is surely a picture of a very different time.


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ehbowen
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #4 on: Dec 25th, 2014, 6:10am »
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on Dec 24th, 2014, 11:19pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I think March would be closest, but either would probably be pretty close.
 
I'll try to get my bump of memory going and post the tale, second hand though it is. It is surely a picture of a very different time.

 
There aren't many differences between March and August; I've already checked. I just put up the Ranger from August 1944; it would have conveyed the through cars from Houston as far as Temple. Your mother most likely would have taken train 66-77 as far as Brownwood and transferred there in the middle of the night to the through sleeper from Houston to Oakland.
 
I'll work on the other legs of the connection next weekend----Eric.


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Now 200 classic timetables online, transcribed into machine-readable and searchable format:

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Historic timetables of the great trains of the past!
ClydeDET
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #5 on: Dec 25th, 2014, 3:07pm »
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Thanks. Mom mentioned a couple of meal stops, all hurried, including one at Needles where a couple of young officers grabbed me and another baby (another young Navy wife, occupying the upper in the same section Mom had the lower) so as to make better time to the eating house.  But no change of cars apparently.

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ehbowen
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Posts: 242
Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #6 on: Jan 13th, 2015, 4:15pm »
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All right, Clyde, anytime you're ready. I have the schedules all posted, four of them, in fact.

  • The Angelo; this is the train you would have taken from Dallas as far as Brownwood.
  • The unnamed forerunner of the California Special; which would have taken you to Clovis.
  • The Grand Canyon Limited from Clovis to Oakland/San Francisco via Belen and Barstow.
  • And, finally, just to complete the circle, the Ranger, Santa Fe's premium service between Galveston/Houston and Chicago.

Transcribing these schedules has given me some appreciation for how hectic things must have been in the WWII years. You mention a meal stop at Needles...well, according to the timetable the train carried a dining car, so no meal stop should be necessary. Key word: "should". It's very possible that you were on a second or third section and that there was no diner available for it, or else that the diner had been "lifted" for a higher priority train. Your scheduled arrival in Needles is right at lunch time, so a meal stop there is most believable. Likewise, the sleeper originating in Dallas is supposed to only go as far as Sweetwater, meaning that a change of cars would be needed somewhere on the first morning after boarding. But, again, with the press of business it is possible that an additional sleeper was added making the full trip between Dallas and Oakland.
 
I'm really very interested to hear whatever you can recall from the trip. My best pages are those where I have some personal memories or information to put the timetable data in perspective. I'm hoping that I can add your stories to help bring the pages to life.
 
--------Eric H. Bowen


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--------Eric H. Bowen

Now 200 classic timetables online, transcribed into machine-readable and searchable format:

Check it out here: Streamliner Schedules!

Historic timetables of the great trains of the past!
ClydeDET
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #7 on: Jan 13th, 2015, 7:49pm »
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on Jan 13th, 2015, 4:15pm, ehbowen wrote:       (Click here for original message)
All right, Clyde, anytime you're ready. I have the schedules all posted, four of them, in fact.

  • The Angelo; this is the train you would have taken from Dallas as far as Brownwood.
  • The unnamed forerunner of the California Special; which would have taken you to Clovis.
  • The Grand Canyon Limited from Clovis to Oakland/San Francisco via Belen and Barstow.
  • And, finally, just to complete the circle, the Ranger, Santa Fe's premium service between Galveston/Houston and Chicago.

Transcribing these schedules has given me some appreciation for how hectic things must have been in the WWII years. You mention a meal stop at Needles...well, according to the timetable the train carried a dining car, so no meal stop should be necessary. Key word: "should". It's very possible that you were on a second or third section and that there was no diner available for it, or else that the diner had been "lifted" for a higher priority train. Your scheduled arrival in Needles is right at lunch time, so a meal stop there is most believable. Likewise, the sleeper originating in Dallas is supposed to only go as far as Sweetwater, meaning that a change of cars would be needed somewhere on the first morning after boarding. But, again, with the press of business it is possible that an additional sleeper was added making the full trip between Dallas and Oakland.
 
I'm really very interested to hear whatever you can recall from the trip. My best pages are those where I have some personal memories or information to put the timetable data in perspective. I'm hoping that I can add your stories to help bring the pages to life.
 
--------Eric H. Bowen

 
I am still hunting for the tape where I got Mom to talk about the trip (it was at the office when i closed it down, so got packed - now which box?), and when i do find it, will have more detail.
 
I obviously (about a year old at the time) have no recollections of the trip or the time we spent in San Francisco, but here goes.
 
Dad had been transferred from NAS, Dallas to the West Coast and was in San Francisco (actually, Treasure island) and arrangements were made for Mom to go out.
 
She and another young navy wife, with a child about my age, managed to get reservations to go out (Olan was also out at Treasure island), Pullman, Mom had the lower and Louise the upper. She mentioned that the diner was only certainly available to first class passengers (amount of food on board, it seems - and sometimes after priority passengers, which didn't always mean Navy wives, the menu was often sparse. but they always had milk for the babies, and usually baby food), and that a couple of times the train made a meal stop and EVERYBODY got off and headed for cafes and/or Harvey House if there was one.
 
The train was full. Pullmans and chair cars. She didn't mention ever using/visiting a lounge car. Spent, it seems, a fair amount of time taking sidings for higher priority trains - troopers and maybe some hot-shot freights. Well, there was a war on... She said she was REALLY glad they had a section instead of riding coach.
 
May have had to change cars at Brownwood, but as best i can recall, she didn't mention having to do that, and the impression i had was through car from Dallas to Oakland. Trip was apparently tiring. So - mainly riding the train, then riding some more.I gathered they were pretty tired of the train by the time they got out of texas, nd then three more states to cross. She mentioned  the diner being pretty heavily used, never any empty seats and the crew working hard and steadily. And sometimes running out of most menu items.
 
All the cars were standard heavyweights of course. Reasonably comfortable, didn't say anything about being unduly hot or cold, so HVAC was working.
 
She said they had meal stops a couple of times, but i only recall Needles as named. Apparently the diner was out of supplies at that point (or possibly had been cut off for some reason after breakfast), because everybody who intended to eat had to get off and go some eating establishment. Weren't going to have too long (don't recall her giving a specific time, but apparently not generous, said everything was hurried). In any case they got off and the nearest place that didn't already have a line snaking out the door and down  sidewalk was at least a couple of blocks away. And here were these two young wives, each with a baby who had to be carried. Weren't sure they could get down there, fed, and back as quick as needed. Couple of young officers (I think Army, possibly fliers) just grabbed the babies and said "Come on!" and headed down the sidewalk at a brisk walk. With the wives chasing after. Everybody got fed, and back to the train before it left town, and they then ran on up to Oakland, where Dad and Olan met them and on over to San Francisco to settle the girls and babies in the rooms they had been able to find - not apartments, but rooms with bath and kitchen privileges in  houses.
 
Trip is remembered as long, not one that would make you remember rail travel with great affection, but better than driving. But Mom was still always willing to use trains after the war, particularly in the summer time. Air conditioning, which not many cars had (except some luxury models and not all them) in those times.
 
So - that is the best i can do until i find that tape.


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HwyHaulier
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Posts: 3439
Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #8 on: Jan 16th, 2015, 10:06am »
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Eric - Clyde - Lodge Members -
 
Clyde! WOW! Apparently, we were both "wee ones" in the same years. Your writer had some recollections of travel with my Mother,  
Omaha - Baltimore, and return. My vague recall of travel on BURLINGTON, Omaha - Chicago, then B & O beyond to Baltimore.
 
My Dad a Martin Aircraft manager. Eastern Shore of MD guy, joined Martin at Middle River, MD. Later, he assigned to a project at  
Omaha, involving build of a group of B-29 (with "MO" Order Numbers). Very little was known of the purpose of the aircraft. This the  
project that went right to Gen. Groves. "Silverplate" and all that, as it turned out...
 
My Mother commented the rail journeys were noted by very busy schedules. She did recall we rode Pullman on any trips. She was  
impressed that sleeping car space very difficult to secure. It carried a good bit of weight that my Dad was in his special project...
 
..........................Vern.........................


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George_Harris
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #9 on: Jan 16th, 2015, 1:28pm »
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on Jan 16th, 2015, 10:06am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
[b]My Mother commented the rail journeys were noted by very busy schedules. She did recall we rode Pullman on any trips. She was impressed that sleeping car space very difficult to secure. It carried a good bit of weight that my Dad was in his special project...
 
..........................Vern.........................

Vern, et al:
 
Wartime sleeping car space:  My dad was a primary flight instructor and later transport pilot.  He mentioned that on one occasion he flew a plane as the transport pilot into Dallas Love Field and was given sleeping car space back to Memphis for what purpose I do not remember him saying, but it was home, and there was a AAF base in Memphis.  He said that he was able to hitchhike a ride on a plane going to Millington Navy Base instead.  Some four weeks later he received a letter demanding an explanation (in triplicate) as to why he did not utilize his assigned Pullman space, as it reduced utilization of transport facilities, hence impeded the war effort.  He said that this, in addition to always being given some 20 copies of his orders when he virtually never needed over 3, helped him to understand why there was a wartime paper shortage.
 
(It appears that there was a lot of informal mutual help, probably a lot of it contrary to regulations, in almost everything among the various air services during the war.)


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ClydeDET
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #10 on: Jan 16th, 2015, 8:42pm »
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on Jan 16th, 2015, 1:28pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Vern, et al:
 
Wartime sleeping car space:  My dad was a primary flight instructor and later transport pilot.  He mentioned that on one occasion he flew a plane as the transport pilot into Dallas Love Field and was given sleeping car space back to Memphis for what purpose I do not remember him saying, but it was home, and there was a AAF base in Memphis.  He said that he was able to hitchhike a ride on a plane going to Millington Navy Base instead.  Some four weeks later he received a letter demanding an explanation (in triplicate) as to why he did not utilize his assigned Pullman space, as it reduced utilization of transport facilities, hence impeded the war effort.  He said that this, in addition to always being given some 20 copies of his orders when he virtually never needed over 3, helped him to understand why there was a wartime paper shortage.
 
(It appears that there was a lot of informal mutual help, probably a lot of it contrary to regulations, in almost everything among the various air services during the war.)

 
Not just air services. From what Dad (and other folks in the family who served) had to say just about everybody was doing the mutual back-scratching deal. And - there was still a lot of that in the Army (and i am sure the rest of the services, but it was the Army i was in) back in Vietnam War days. Sabotaged the supply system so it never worked right, but almost a necessity if high-priority stuff was gonna get done timely. People like me, who were supposed to discourage that sort of thing, learned to look the other way and not notice anything except the work got out.
 
Vern I was really a wee one during the War - born in October, 1943, so not quite 26 months old when Dad finally got home just before Thanksgiving 1945. My earliest memories were Post-War.


« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2015, 8:43pm by ClydeDET » Logged
HwyHaulier
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #11 on: Jan 17th, 2015, 9:36am »
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Clyde - George - Lodge Members -
 
George... Right! What your Dad should have done was called in and given back the Pullman space.  
The WW2 realities were the Pullman Cars were running one hundred pct. occupancy! In fact, more  
then that. The line running a "hot sheet hotel" operation on most routes.
 
Clyde... For myself, date to JUN 1941. At the time, no idea of what 7 DEC in Hawaii would bring...
 
..........................Vern........................


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ClydeDET
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #12 on: Jan 17th, 2015, 3:04pm »
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on Jan 17th, 2015, 9:36am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde - George - Lodge Members -
 
George... Right! What your Dad should have done was called in and given back the Pullman space.  
The WW2 realities were the Pullman Cars were running one hundred pct. occupancy! In fact, more  
then that. The line running a "hot sheet hotel" operation on most routes.
 
Clyde... For myself, date to JUN 1941. At the time, no idea of what 7 DEC in Hawaii would bring...
 
..........................Vern........................

 
No, i suppose you didn't. Heck - neither did Mom and Dad. They were an item, but waited till they were both 21 (mid-1942) to actually tie the knot. I think Dad was already scheduled to go into the Navy, which happened later that year.


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HwyHaulier
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Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #13 on: Jan 17th, 2015, 10:25pm »
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Clyde - George - Eric - Lodge Members -
 
To get us all in a WW2 mindset. Hear this, done at the Oakland Paramount Theater.
Glenn Miller, and all that...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQX_ow_5OzM
 
Oh, why not? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJE-onnw2gM
 
.......................................Vern...................................


« Last Edit: Jan 17th, 2015, 10:30pm by HwyHaulier » Logged

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ehbowen
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Posts: 242
Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #14 on: Jan 18th, 2015, 8:06pm »
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Just added a new section. The Official Guide also carried transatlantic sailing schedules for many of the peacetime years between the early 1920s and 1960. I've begun to scan these schedules and the associated steamship company advertisements and post them in the new area: The Steamship Agency.

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--------Eric H. Bowen

Now 200 classic timetables online, transcribed into machine-readable and searchable format:

Check it out here: Streamliner Schedules!

Historic timetables of the great trains of the past!
ClydeDET
Historian
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Posts: 4793
Re: Back In the Saddle Again....
 
« Reply #15 on: Jan 18th, 2015, 10:45pm »
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on Jan 18th, 2015, 8:06pm, ehbowen wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Just added a new section. The Official Guide also carried transatlantic sailing schedules for many of the peacetime years between the early 1920s and 1960. I've begun to scan these schedules and the associated steamship company advertisements and post them in the new area: The Steamship Agency.

 
 
Now that sounds interesting, Eric.
 
If I had known to ask, I could have come home from Germany (en route to Vietnam) on S.S. United States. But i didn't and the bleeping travel clerk didn't tell me. Oh well.


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