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"HEAD END/DEAD END"
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   Author  Topic: "HEAD END/DEAD END"  (Read 5736 times)
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #660 on: Jun 26th, 2012, 10:34pm »
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Another historic old vehicle well worth modeling is this elderly combo of the ST. JOHNSBURY & LAKE CHAMPLAIN, photographed on a sunny day in 1956......
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/sjlc113.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #661 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 12:50am »
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Wooden NYO&W combine......
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/nyow302.jpg


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #662 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 6:50am »
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on Jun 26th, 2012, 5:28pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Interesting page on specialized head-end cars........
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/classic/CARdwgs10.html

HFM -  
 
Nicely done and well presented. Some of the particular comments, however, are somewhat conjectural. Not enough  
direct references to established practices...
 
For example, see the fifty (50) ft. REA Car. In many instances, these were simply re-fitting and modest modification  
of the WWII purpose, Troop Sleepers and Transports. The designs were prolific in post War assignments.
 
Another example, see the seventy-two (72) ft. MOPAC Car. This was hardly a quirky idea from the Railroad! With daily  
operations realities in mind, the Car fit to what was needed to actually work the Cars at its in service stops. That is:  
There may have been some lower clearance loading docks served. More, it may have been estimated a higher car would  
have more capacity, and perhaps much beyond usual cargo weights loaded.
 
Or, the writer would have been well served with considering some assist from Railroad people experienced in working  
the assigned services.
 
.......................Vern..................
 
 


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #663 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 9:16am »
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Vern:
 
Good points!
 
Yes, recall the many ex-WW2 troop sleepers, converted for express service in later years; NYC had a number of such cars.
 
The DL&W purchased a number of such cars for various purposes, converting 11 of them head-end service.
 
In later years, some of them recieved new E-L paint.
 
By the late 60's, however, they were relegated to other duties, with express service gone from the E-L.
 
During the 1930's, the GREENVILLE STEEL CAR COMPANY built 55 milk cars for the ERIE.
 
Years later, a number of these cars were converted into express cars; in 1963, many of these cars were still in service with the E-L......
 
"H.F.M."
 


« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2012, 9:53am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #664 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 9:24am »
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See also:
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/headend.html


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #665 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 9:52am »
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Of related interest......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/ltr-032637t.gif
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/ltr-062437t.gif


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #666 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 10:31am »
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In 1973, three years after all through service ended on the E-L, we see former express car #180, along with other surplus head-end equipment, standing idle under the trainsheds at the old Scranton station.
 
Inserted between the two groups of express cars from 1950 was another group of 50 built by MAGOR in 1957 (quite late in the game for new head-end equipment) for the DL&W, numbered #10040-10089.
 
On the E-L, they ended up numbered #140-#189.
 
Most of them were reassigned to freight service after the cancellations of Trains #'s 3 and 4 in the late 60's......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/el-b180.jpg


« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2012, 10:33am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #667 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 10:52am »
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on Jun 27th, 2012, 10:31am, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...
Inserted between the two groups of express cars from 1950 was another group of 50 built by MAGOR in 1957 (quite late in the game for new head-end equipment) for the DL&W, numbered #10040-10089...

HFM -
 
So, we may posit the Railroads would have been wise to consult the, Oracle Of Delphos to get some good advice on  
equipment buys of 1957? Otherwise, most all have no reliable Crystal Ball devices. At least, not of the appliances which  
might posit the subsequent treachery which beset Mail and Express!
 
.........................Vern..................


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #668 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 11:55am »
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on Jun 27th, 2012, 10:52am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

HFM -
 
So, we may posit the Railroads would have been wise to consult the, Oracle Of Delphos to get some good advice on  
equipment buys of 1957? Otherwise, most all have no reliable Crystal Ball devices. At least, not of the appliances which  
might posit the subsequent treachery which beset Mail and Express!
 
.........................Vern..................

 
Vern:
 
Agreed!
 
With no crystal balls handy at that time, surely, not even the most astute of railroad brass could have forseen the widespread bloodletting of the later 60's, resulting in the Government's removal of most mail on the rails.
 
Too, no one would have gueesed that, by the late 60's, the once vast REA empire would be on the brink of extinction.
 
Again, little wonder why the bottom dropped out of the passenger market so violently by the late 60's.........
 
"H.F.M."


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #669 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 1:15pm »
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ERIE express car #6617.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/erie-be6617aps.jpg


« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2012, 1:15pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
ClydeDET
Historian
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Posts: 4785
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #670 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 1:17pm »
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on Jun 27th, 2012, 6:50am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

HFM -  
 
Nicely done and well presented. Some of the particular comments, however, are somewhat conjectural. Not enough  
direct references to established practices...
 
For example, see the fifty (50) ft. REA Car. In many instances, these were simply re-fitting and modest modification  
of the WWII purpose, Troop Sleepers and Transports. The designs were prolific in post War assignments.
 
Another example, see the seventy-two (72) ft. MOPAC Car. This was hardly a quirky idea from the Railroad! With daily  
operations realities in mind, the Car fit to what was needed to actually work the Cars at its in service stops. That is:  
There may have been some lower clearance loading docks served. More, it may have been estimated a higher car would  
have more capacity, and perhaps much beyond usual cargo weights loaded.
 
Or, the writer would have been well served with considering some assist from Railroad people experienced in working  
the assigned services.
 
.......................Vern..................
 
 

 
Seems like I have seen an indication that the 72' MOPAC cars were built to handle primarily bulk mail  transport and were shaped to fit in with passenger consists. At least some went into MOW service -  have some photos (slides) I took of one (or maybe it was two) at Trinity, Texas, painted in boxcar colors and MOW markings. Not sure when, but after we moved to East Texas which was late 1979. Probably sometime in the 1980s.


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #671 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 1:24pm »
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Surplus E-L equipment at Kingston, PA, 1971......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el-mofw.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #672 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 1:30pm »
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"THE RED INK EXPRESS" (1959)*
 
*click on link on PC page
 
Note comment here from Mr. Perlman (if this statement was true, then, why was it that the truly evil days of passenger rail came about ONLY after most head-end traffic disappeared? Certainly, the railroads weren't making money on hauling passengers)......
 
http://www.kinglyheirs.com/AbandonedRR/PennCentral.html#Redlnk


« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2012, 1:39pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #673 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 2:12pm »
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Clyde - All -  
 
Thanks! Yes, with the MOPAC Cars, surely they were "purpose built" designs. IMHO, had they been built to higher profile, then:  
1) Were to load to full "cube" capacity, cargo weights may have been excessive. Or,
 2) It may not have been practical to run daily terminal operations in load and unload, with "high stack" shipments.
 
In the era, MOPAC acknowledged for good Engineering talent...
 
..........................Vern.......................
 


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ClydeDET
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Posts: 4785
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #674 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 3:05pm »
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on Jun 27th, 2012, 2:12pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde - All -  
 
Thanks! Yes, with the MOPAC Cars, surely they were "purpose built" designs. IMHO, had they been built to higher profile, then:  
1) Were to load to full "cube" capacity, cargo weights may have been excessive. Or,
 2) It may not have been practical to run daily terminal operations in load and unload, with "high stack" shipments.
 
In the era, MOPAC acknowledged for good Engineering talent...
 
..........................Vern.......................
 

 
 
OK - Patrick Dorin in his MISSOURI PACIFIC PASSENGER TRAINS: THE POSTWAR YEARS (highly recommended, good text and lots of excellent pictures) says:
 
An incredible service improvement took place in 1963 when the MoPac orderd 50 high-speed, box-express cars from their own De Soto, Missouri, shops. The new 70-foot cars were really a cross between a baggage car and a box car with the placing of the doors, two on each side, and yet the cars were built to freight car specifications. The 50 new cars replaced a like number of 50-foot, double-door box cars that had been converted to box-express cars for passenger servce in 1950. The new cars had 34% more floor space, but weighed only 2% more than the cars they replaced. The new cars served in baggage and express service as well as storage mail service on virtually all MoPac passenger trains. They also traveled to Chicago on the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio's mail train out of St. Louis.
 
Couple of good pictures showing that they had four-wheel passenger trucks instead of the high-speed freight trucks on the predecessors. Note - the cars (#s135-184) are referred to as 70-foot in text, but the tabular listing of  MoPac head-end equipment as of the 1963 renumbering indicates they are actually 73'9".


« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2012, 3:06pm by ClydeDET » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #675 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 4:05pm »
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Raffish, yet impressive collection of MOPAC express cars in freight service, 1975 (note "stretch" equipment).......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-bagg.jpg


« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2012, 4:08pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #676 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 4:15pm »
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Close-up view of one of the "stretch" MP express cars.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg


« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2012, 4:17pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #677 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 4:26pm »
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All:
 
A little research netted this page on the MOPAC express cars.
 
Note that, because of their lightweight construction, these cars were limited in freight service.
 
They were not used in head-end service all that long......
 
http://trainweb.org/screamingeagle/mow4.html


« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2012, 4:28pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #678 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 4:35pm »
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HFM -
 
"Screaming Eagle" site, just above, explains it. Told ya' I had a feeling in my bones these cars were not built for heavier loading! <G>
 
........................Vern....................


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #679 on: Jun 27th, 2012, 5:18pm »
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MOPAC head-end cars at Memphis, 1948......
 
http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/other/bramson/mp-rea124.jpg


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