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"HEAD END/DEAD END"
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   Author  Topic: "HEAD END/DEAD END"  (Read 5729 times)
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #40 on: May 13th, 2012, 11:25am »
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Vern/All:
 
PRR's "FORT PITT" (#53), 1963................
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr5790.jpg
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr5790a.jpg


« Last Edit: May 13th, 2012, 11:26am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #41 on: May 13th, 2012, 11:45am »
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on May 13th, 2012, 11:25am, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Vern/All:
 
PRR's "FORT PITT" (#53), 1963................
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr5790.jpg
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr5790a.jpg

HFM -  
 
THANKEW! THANKEW! That's exactly how they looked arriving Baltimore with the Merkel Press work!  
Trains would "change power" at BAL for electric to Washington, of course...
 
.....................Vern...................


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George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3803
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #42 on: May 13th, 2012, 12:03pm »
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on May 13th, 2012, 1:09am, jmlaboda wrote:       (Click here for original message)
"Since much of the old YV right-of-way still exists, have you heard any rumblings or blue-skying about maybe reviving rail service to El Portal?"
 
It would be a real surprise if they would ever seriously consider such... the cost is just way too great to restore the right-of-way and actually lay track.  You are talking about $Millions per mile.

 
on May 13th, 2012, 9:59am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

JML -  
 
SIGH! Don't for a second think clearly prohibitive costs can possibly stop the present day rail planner zanies! They are all ISO abundant "Free Fed Buck$" for their most imaginative nonsense.
 
On this lovely morning, I must prepare for battle! Onto a real "pro grade" Forum, which encourages the rail zany nonsense. There is a huge failure of plain logic in all of it. The highway system provides capabilities in serving any point in the CONUS! Rail cannot, and do not do such offers of universal service for all shipments, and possible riders. Besides, the Constitution specifies support of highways and waterways as a primary National Purpose.
 
Anything hard to understand about any of it?
 
.........................Vern....................

 
There is a web site dedicated to restoration of the YVRR that I ran across a few years back.  Do not know the current status.  The idea may be dead and the website still up or they may still be agitating for it.
 
it is www.yvrr.org.  Its objective is rebuilding of the railroad from Merced to the park.


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jmlaboda
Historian
Posts: 389
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #43 on: May 13th, 2012, 12:18pm »
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While we are straying far afield from the subject of the thread I will say if someone is advocating the restoration of the YVRR such a person should bring up the successful operation of the Grand Canyon RR.  It is a working and viable line and it should be brought up by those wanting to see this happen.  But I would suggest that any further chatter on this matter be moved to its own thread...

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jerry
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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #44 on: May 13th, 2012, 12:28pm »
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George -  
 
Y V? Oh, spot them a nasty Light Rail with Euro Cars, and maybe they will go away? As if the Golden Bear has the money to back it up?
 
I am into a potentially contentious discussion about paying unto Caesar, and the distribution of burdens of roadway costs. I plan to point  
out to the writer that highway vehicles go everywhere. Rail cars do not.
 
Or, here is how we get into endless small towns that never had rail, or when they did, a weekly train at best. Now then, if we over burden  
highway taxes then: What of lowest prices always at some big store? How to get into these small communities? Would it make a difference  
if (in this clip) signs on the door of a rail alter ego? Would they care?
 
We have a lot of way too smart guys out there, who don't appreciate the operating problems?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWV-gZ5cREE
 
..........................Vern.....................


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George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3803
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #45 on: May 13th, 2012, 12:31pm »
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on May 13th, 2012, 10:50am, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Early/mid-60's E-L views of piggyback units on passenger trains serve as proof that, ''Yep, that's how it was done, once upon a time!"
 
Cannot conceive of such operations on the rails today!
 
"H.F.M."

And it was far from just EL that did that.  Southern ran piggyback on almost all passenger trains in the early to mid 1960's, with the exception of the Southern, Crescent, and Royal Palm, and maybe a few others.  In the years that Southern stayed out of Amtrak, pigs still rode on passenger trains except the Southern Crescent and the train to Asheville.


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #46 on: May 13th, 2012, 12:36pm »
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Jerry -
 
Yours noted, and appreciated...
 
Into any MAIL and EXPRESS discussion, this goes right to the heart of how various geniuses wrecked the National Passenger System?
 
I am a long time advocate for service into smaller towns. See mine, just above. No, I haven't "...gotten over..." the punitive conditions of  
the ICC Act, 1935 which abolished rail control of longer haul bus and truck.
 
We are now in an "...unring the bell..." on most all policy, yes?
 
......................Vern....................


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George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3803
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #47 on: May 13th, 2012, 1:08pm »
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on May 13th, 2012, 12:18pm, jmlaboda wrote:       (Click here for original message)
While we are straying far afield from the subject of the thread I will say if someone is advocating the restoration of the YVRR such a person should bring up the successful operation of the Grand Canyon RR. ..

One last comment, and then we return to our regular program:  The major difference is that the GCRR tracks bridges, etc., were all still in place, and did not really require that much work to return to service.  
 
on May 13th, 2012, 12:36pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Jerry -
 
Yours noted, and appreciated...
 
Into any MAIL and EXPRESS discussion, this goes right to the heart of how various geniuses wrecked the National Passenger System?
 
I am a long time advocate for service into smaller towns. See mine, just above. No, I haven't "...gotten over..." the punitive conditions of the ICC Act, 1935 which abolished rail control of longer haul bus and truck.
 
We are now in an "...unring the bell..." on most all policy, yes?
 
......................Vern....................

Vern:
 
I have spent to much time with and seen way to much of people whose certain of the solution was in inverse proportion to their undertanding of the situation.  
 
I have long wondered, but not really researched how Gulf Transport managed to say under GM&O control.  Gulf Transport was a great operation I know from being a customer in my earlier years, and like the railroad managed to make a go of thier operation in the poorest side of the poorest state in the Union.  
 
They were the railroad's answer to the essential death of passenger ridership on their branchlines as the state of Mississippi finally got around to paving roads in the mid 1930's.  A bus on a paved road parallel to slow track branch line.


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #48 on: May 13th, 2012, 1:25pm »
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on May 13th, 2012, 11:45am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

HFM -  
 
THANKEW! THANKEW! That's exactly how they looked arriving Baltimore with the Merkel Press work!  
Trains would "change power" at BAL for electric to Washington, of course...
 
.....................Vern...................

 
Vern......
 
You are most welcome!
 
Recall, too, the NH still doing a lot of heavy head-end work, well into the 60's; in an excellent NH work by Martin J. McGuirk, we see an early 1960's view of the "WILLIAM PENN" (hauled by an EP-5 electric) crossing  Hell Gate Bridge.
 
At least 10 head-end cars are in the consist, with two coaches bringing up the rear.
 
When all of this head-end revenue vanished later in the decade, small wonder so many runs bit the dust...................
 
"H.F.M."


« Last Edit: May 13th, 2012, 1:31pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #49 on: May 13th, 2012, 1:31pm »
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on May 13th, 2012, 12:31pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

And it was far from just EL that did that.  Southern ran piggyback on almost all passenger trains in the early to mid 1960's, with the exception of the Southern, Crescent, and Royal Palm, and maybe a few others.  In the years that Southern stayed out of Amtrak, pigs still rode on passenger trains except the Southern Crescent and the train to Asheville.

 
George..........
 
Many thanks for this fascinating trivia!
 
Had no idea that the Southern also ran ''pigs'' in their passenger consists.......
 
"H.F.M."


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #50 on: May 13th, 2012, 2:02pm »
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George -  
 
SIGH! We are both (tho I can't speak for you) getting too old for this crap! If the newest, latest, best and brightest players  
aren't literate enough to read and learn from history, then I'll guess they need to revisit the pain.
 
Some time back, Western States trucking a wonderful thing. Blessedly, the entire territory far removed from Washington  
based zealots, trying to make Anti-Trust cases. Now that near all of it who did it are no longer taking calls: There were  
wondrous co-op arrangements, all hand shake between gentlemen, between highway carriers which come to mind, and  
DRG&W, MOPAC, SFe, UP, ESPEE, CRI&P, CB&Q...
 
All were confronted with a lot of "mighty thin" territories, where best course in various informal agreements about who  
was to serve where. Anyone wish to offer LTL everyday to Wyoming points? (And, that's my story under oath, and I'm  
sticking to it!)
 
...........................Vern....................


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #51 on: May 13th, 2012, 2:40pm »
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Valparasio, Indiana, 1963.
 
Head-end business certainly is looking good on the PRR.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr5835ads.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #52 on: May 13th, 2012, 2:44pm »
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Mansfield, Ohio, 1963......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr5904blr.jpg


« Last Edit: May 13th, 2012, 2:45pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
ClydeDET
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Posts: 4785
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #53 on: May 13th, 2012, 2:46pm »
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on May 13th, 2012, 12:31pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

And it was far from just EL that did that.  Southern ran piggyback on almost all passenger trains in the early to mid 1960's, with the exception of the Southern, Crescent, and Royal Palm, and maybe a few others.  In the years that Southern stayed out of Amtrak, pigs still rode on passenger trains except the Southern Crescent and the train to Asheville.

 
Indeed they did - when i was at Charlottesville (Army JAG School) Feb-April 1974 the only Southern trains left through there were the Crescent (run in the old, grand style), the Piedmont (I think the Piedmont), which carried pigs as well as the passenger stock, and an unnamed (seems like it was 7/ train that carried a baggage/express or baggage-chair combine and a coach, plus a cut of pigs. I rode the numbered train to Washington a few times (that was during the oil embargo and gas rationing) when I wanted to go there. Almost never were there any passengers besides yours very truly. But I reckon it made money on the pigs. Crescent usually ahd a decent load on when i ride it back to Harlotsburg...


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #54 on: May 13th, 2012, 2:49pm »
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"HEAD-END/NO END", Valparasio, Indiana, 1963.
 
Yep, here was where real revenue was.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr5899ads.jpg


« Last Edit: May 13th, 2012, 2:50pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #55 on: May 13th, 2012, 2:56pm »
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Another lengthy PRR consist, Valarasio, 1964...........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr5884ads.jpg


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #56 on: May 13th, 2012, 3:05pm »
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on May 13th, 2012, 2:49pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
"HEAD-END/NO END", Valparasio, Indiana, 1963.
 
Yep, here was where real revenue was.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr5899ads.jpg

HFM -  
 
You got this one right! These were the plain girls who didn't get invited to the High School Dance and Gala. They surely were money makers!
 
On this one, you have gone right for the throat about what wiped out the National Passenger System! I was there! Little wonder this cranky,  
Old Coot suddenly posting some rather adamant views...
 
This the Homicide Case of who killed the Golden Goose! And, whatever the Laura Palmer case? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Peaks
 
.........................Vern.........................


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #57 on: May 13th, 2012, 3:44pm »
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Near Sunnyside Yards, 1963.
 
Note ramp for IRT #7 Flushing subway line in background.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr4929jsa.jpg


« Last Edit: May 13th, 2012, 3:45pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #58 on: May 13th, 2012, 6:10pm »
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NYC train at Lafayette Jct., Indiana (1960's)
 
Note Flexivans bringing up the rear................
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-paxtrn-age.jpg


« Last Edit: May 13th, 2012, 6:11pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #59 on: May 13th, 2012, 6:22pm »
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Interesting NYC consist at Berea, Ohio (1964).......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc4053gea.jpg


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