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"HEAD END/DEAD END"
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   Author  Topic: "HEAD END/DEAD END"  (Read 5554 times)
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3432
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #380 on: May 21st, 2012, 10:13am »
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NORM -
 
Ref. http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf0021rsa.jpg
 
Many Thanks. The appearance of the Jimmies at Pinole a bit startling. I was so "wired in" to ALCO Power on the "North" assignments.  
Guess "Power Desk" didn't have them available on the day of the Photo...
 
.......................Vern..................


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3432
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #381 on: May 21st, 2012, 10:18am »
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on May 21st, 2012, 1:07am, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Another stunning (undated) view, this one depicting the steam-hauled CHIEF........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-s3777abw.jpg

HFM -  
 
The Photo is trying to communicate with us! Note the shielded headlight on 3777! We may presume this a WWII Era Photo!
 
................Loose Lips Sink Ships!........No Bright Lights In The Nights!........
 
......................Vern....................


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #382 on: May 21st, 2012, 10:28am »
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on May 21st, 2012, 10:18am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

HFM -  
 
The Photo is trying to communicate with us! Note the shielded headlight on 3777! We may presume this a WWII Era Photo!
 
................Loose Lips Sink Ships!........No Bright Lights In The Nights!........
 
......................Vern....................

 
 
Vern.......
 
Why, now, am I hearing the faint strains of Glen Miller's ''TUXEDO JUNCTION'' playing in my echoing cranium?<G>
 
Man, if it were not for such powerful machines, we'd have been hard hard pressed indeed to win ''THE BIG ONE''!
 
God Bless our railroads......and our mighty military!
 
''H.F.M.''


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #383 on: May 21st, 2012, 11:04am »
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Pasadena, 1968.....the old order changeth......only one head-end car in the consist......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf108ads.jpg
 
Toldeo, Ohio.....another time, another world......the grand and glorious era of streamlined steam.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-s3460ach.jpg
 
Alburquerque, 1973; note UP car on the right.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-be3551jpa.jpg


« Last Edit: May 21st, 2012, 1:14pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #384 on: May 21st, 2012, 1:11pm »
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''TWILIGHT TIME ON THE SANTA FE''
 
(Fort Worth, 1973)
 
Sure doesn't look like an AMTRAK consist to me........<G>
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-train-kbp.jpg


« Last Edit: May 21st, 2012, 1:12pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3432
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #385 on: May 21st, 2012, 1:42pm »
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on May 21st, 2012, 11:04am, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Pasadena, 1968.....the old order changeth......only one head-end car in the consist......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf108ads.jpg  

HFM -  
 
(Ahem! Ahem!) May I submit you did a "jumping to conclusions" fallacy here? The Photo dated 1968! The Photo shows  
the "El Cap" Cars on the L. A. Service.
 
See other Photos, in this thread. We know the "Operating Plan" of A T S F at various dates. The Mail and Express ran  
in solid blocks on the "secondary" trains, which were not the widely touted "Marquee" schedules. Timings were close to  
same as the "name" trains. A coach seat, rear cars on SCOUT and NAVAJO must have provided a lot of cheap thrills!
 
SIGH! For this one, maybe an all expense paid week at a trackside Motel at Clovis, NM? (Ask for "Dotty" at the Diner,  
nearby! Tell her some Eastern friends are thinking about her!) (Send your bill to Warren B. in Omaha. Note you get the  
BNSF rate!)
 
........................Vern........................


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #386 on: May 21st, 2012, 2:05pm »
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Vern......
 
Cannot help that my bifocaled eyes are well-versed in seeing decent head-end representaion in most old SF pax views!<G>
 
Too, this photo was dated 1968......the glory days of SF passenger services had already entered a zone of unavoidable twilight.
 
Already a melancholy air of "what once was" prevailed......
 
''H.F.M.''


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #387 on: May 21st, 2012, 2:22pm »
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Interesting page on the history of restored Santa Fe RPO #74.......
 
http://www.sdrm.org/roster/passenger/rpo74/


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #388 on: May 21st, 2012, 2:29pm »
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Another good page on another restored SF RPO (baggage/RPO), #3401, built in 1938...........
 
http://www.houstonrrmuseum.org/roster/3401.html


« Last Edit: May 21st, 2012, 2:32pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3432
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #389 on: May 21st, 2012, 3:19pm »
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HFM -  
 
Yours at #391. Have to get you thinking like an Operating guy! The choice being: Load "The El Cap" with added Cars, making it more  
difficult to work enroute. Or, put most of the Mail and Express on next earliest schedule doing the work. Also, do not forget the choice  
of selecting: Via La Junta, or, Via Amarillo.
 
At date, there's a reason the "L. A. 'El Cap'" not loaded heavy forward...
 
In last Great Days of DENVER ZEPHYR (CB&Q), the train kept getting ever longer. It was not practical to run Second Section schedules.  
Result a huge train difficult to work at enroute stops...
 
.......................Vern....................


« Last Edit: May 21st, 2012, 3:22pm by HwyHaulier » Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #390 on: May 21st, 2012, 4:20pm »
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Vern............
 
Am now recalling head-end traffic on the E-L, back in the 60's; the PHOEBE SNOW was not [at least, not in later years] the true ''flagship'' of the railroad, carrying far more head-end equipment on most runs than its HOB-CHICAGO running mate, the LAKE CITIES.
 
PHOEBE was also scheduled for seven more stops en route, than was the LAKE CITIES.
 
By 1970, when the very last E-L through train left Hoboken for Chicago, only bulk mail was still being carried, a far cry from just a few years earlier, when hefty head-end traffic was still the norm on the road.
 
As the trains with the heaviest head-end loads required at least another half an hour to ''work'',  this was indeed not conducive with the scheduling of the more elite varnish.................
 
H.F.M.


« Last Edit: May 21st, 2012, 7:57pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3432
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #391 on: May 21st, 2012, 5:08pm »
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HFM -  
 
Ah, ha! You acknowledge some of the problems. The actual set up and running of trains an elaborate chess game.  
Always it has been (and thanks to Kenny Rogers), "...you gotta' know when to hold 'em, and know when to run 'em..."
 
I'll wager the best board game ever to teach "Line Haul - Power Desk" in the couple or so decades back (Baltimore  
based) Avalon-Hill "sim" game, B & O / C & O. My son and I used to play it endlessly.
 
Over time, we started "tweaking" the Rules. Example: Run the "Pigs" (TOFC) at near same priority as the "name"  
passenger trains. We changed it enough, it became a very draining game in its play. (Airplane? "...Give me the ham,  
hold the coal
...")...
 
So, back to the A T S F chatter. Hold the Mail and Express for the next "secondary" schedule, so as to not impose  
enroute burdens on the "marquee" trains...
 
.......................Vern................


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #392 on: May 21st, 2012, 7:56pm »
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These views from 1976 depict former MP express cars, being used in freight service......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-bagg.jpg
 
Switcher doing duty at CUT, 1967......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/cin-ut/citu33gea.jpg


« Last Edit: May 21st, 2012, 8:22pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #393 on: May 21st, 2012, 8:32pm »
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''HEAD END ON THE TAIL'' (WM), Hagerstown, MD, 1940......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/wm/wm-s201aps.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #394 on: May 21st, 2012, 8:45pm »
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''HEAD END ON THE TAIL'' (2), Western Port, MD., 1953.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/wm/wm-s208abn.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #395 on: May 21st, 2012, 11:03pm »
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Short N&W consist, Lafayette, Indiana, 1969..........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-canbal-gea.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #396 on: May 21st, 2012, 11:27pm »
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N&W train arriving at Cincinnati, 1967........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-pax-train.jpg


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Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #397 on: May 22nd, 2012, 12:05am »
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on May 21st, 2012, 9:57am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

HFM -  
 
Good Heavens! SANTA FE ran one serious railroad! Don't know which sounds I would like to hear again.  
The 3784 starting that train, or comparable. Or, the "Jimmy" - E M D working chorales all starting up under load!
 
There are rumors, BTW, that out on the desert, the SANTA FE ran most quickly and with urgent dispatch!  
(If under oath, I don't know a thing about it!)
 
......................Vern.................

 
Vern, and Mr. Malone,
 
Man . . . let a guy get away from his keyboard and go to work for a day, and look what happens . . .  Once again, with your permission, I'd like to re-post several links here, along with appropriate blatherings . . .
 
1.   http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-s3784abw.jpg   Vern, you're right that the Santa Fe was serious about its Fast Mail.  Though the public never knew it, to the Dispatchers and Towermen, Trains 7 and 8 had every bit as much "seniority" as any of the all-Pullman, extra-fare Limiteds.  (As a matter of fact, I have a Santa Fe timetable from 1938 that even shows the Fast Mail carrying Sleepers on portions of its run-- overnight, Chicago to Kansas City, for example).  Even in the 1960s when I saw it, the Fast Mail routinely carried between 15 and 20 cars ahead of the Rider Coach.  You are right, also, about hustlin' across the desert.  The E1 Diesels, and the 2900-class 4-8-4s, were allowed 100mph if conditions were right (and we both know about the "fudge factor" where speeds in excess of the Posted were sometimes ignored by supervisors).  Even in the days of Amtrak, AT&SF's mainline across Kansas and eastern Colorado still maintained Automatic Train Stop, and the Southwest Chief was allowed 90 mph (on jointed rail, splitting semaphores!), vs. the 80mph limit for Amtrak trains virtually everywhere else outside the NEC.
 
This particular photo, of the Fast Mail behind Steam, is especially evocative to me.  The camera faces east at the far eastern end of the Barstow Yard Limits (note that the hogger on No. 3784 has the bell ringing, even though he's still a mile or so from the depot).  Beyond that cut through the ridge is 160 miles of sagebrush and rattlesnakes, between Barstow and "The Needles," hard by the Colorado River.  And, hardly a foot of that 160 miles is level ground.  Some sidings and passing tracks carry names reminiscent of endless sand and heat-- Bagdad, or Cadiz; while others were named with a clear sense of sarcasm-- Klondike, or Siberia.  Train No. 7 here, pulling into Barstow after a four-hour trek across the wastes, reminds me of a troop of U.S. Cavalry galloping in through the front gate of an Old West Fort.  Civilization, shade, and water at last.
 
2.   http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-s3777abw.jpg   This is a great photo of the steam-hauled Chief.  You are right that the "cowled" headlight bespeaks WW2.  The 4-8-4 and its stainless-steel consist are actually the same age.  These 4-8-4s were built expressly to haul the lightweight Chief of 1938.
 
3.   http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-s3460ach.jpg   What a heartbreaking shot of the "Blue Goose"!  This 4-6-4 was also built to haul the 1938 Chief, but was soon downgraded to more pedantic work.  The depot in the background is actually Topeka, Kansas, not Toledo, Ohio (they wanted to keep No. 3460 here near the Topeka Shops).  Stripped of much of her skirting and other ornamentation, it looks like she hasn't even had a decent bath in several months.  A haunting, riches-to-rags portrait . . .
 
4.   http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf108ads.jpg  Now, THIS is more like it!  Those FP-45s are less than a year old, and still looking showroom-fresh.  Using this photo as a springboard, I'd like to share my memories of AT&SF's handling of head-end assignments (at least as i personally saw them in Southern California).  Trains 17 and 18, the Super Chief/El Capitan, carried very little (if any) head-end equipment.  In this photo, the Baggage Car behind the locomotives is probably just that-- the Baggage Car.  Sometimes, when the Super Chief and El Capitan ran as separate sections, the El Cap would usually get the RPO, and maybe a (sealed) Baggage Car or two of Storage Mail (the Checked Baggage itself would usually be carried in the Baggage/Dorm "Transition Car").  The Chief also had a Baggage/Dormitory car for Checked Baggage, but usually carried Storage mail in two (or, rarely, three) sealed Baggage Cars.  The Fast Mail (see above) was still a truly formidable consist, even into the mid- '60s, and also the Grand Canyon would often carry five or six head-end cars (of various types-- lightweight, heavyweight, REA Express, or even the occasional bright-red "Shock Control" boxcar!).
 
5.  http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-be3551jpa.jpg  This one had me going for a minute-- What's a UP Sleeper doing in Albuquerque ? ! ? ! ?  Then, I saw the date . . . 1973 . . . nevermind . . . Amtrak . . .
 
 
There!!!  THAT'LL teach ya to go posting Santa Fe pictures around here!!!
 
(In all seriousness, Mr. Malone, I enjoy the other photos you post here, too-- it's just that the AT&SF stuff is sbout the only time I can do more than just admire the photo.  Keep up the good work (and I don't mean just the Santa Fe work)!!!
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2012, 12:27am by Norm_Anderson » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #398 on: May 22nd, 2012, 12:15am »
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on May 21st, 2012, 11:03pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Short N&W consist, Lafayette, Indiana, 1969..........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-canbal-gea.jpg

 
 
That's a charming, model-railroad-worthy consist . . .  I especially like the "analog" FRED on the rear  (Flapping Rear End Device).
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: "HEAD END/DEAD END"
 
« Reply #399 on: May 22nd, 2012, 12:23am »
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Hagerstown, Maryland (NW).......as it was.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nw/nw-s130adb.jpg


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