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Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
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   Author  Topic: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style  (Read 1840 times)
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #100 on: May 9th, 2012, 2:10pm »
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on May 9th, 2012, 1:49pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Grand Canyon, 1965........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-pulrv-alr.jpg

 
 
Another interesting shot--
 
I think that's the roof of the Grand Canyon Depot behind the Sleeper.  This must have been some kind of Director's Special or some such, however, to rate a Regal- series 4-4-2 in the consist.
 
But the depot was just a few minutes' walk from the South Rim Overlook, and also handy to the Bright Angel Lodge and El Tovar Hotel.  Once upon a time, transcontinental passengers could (for an extra fee) book passage "via the Grand Canyon" . . . the Grand Canyon Limited would drop a sleeper at Williams, Arizona on the main line, where it would be coupled to a connecting train for a breakfast-time arrival at the Grand Canyon.  Patrons could then spend the day sightseeing before an evening departure back to Williams and reconnection to the next day's Grand Canyon.  Sleepers used for this connection were advertised as 8 Section, 1 Drawing Room, 2 Compartment cars (prewar lightweights, or perhaps even heavyweights-- the floorplan was used in both).
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: May 9th, 2012, 2:12pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #101 on: May 9th, 2012, 2:34pm »
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on May 9th, 2012, 2:09pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
A rare piece of history from 1884........
 
http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/1441

 
 
Wow!!!
 
The most fascinating thing to me is the schedule listed on Page 2 of this pamphlet.
 
In 1884, a passenger taking the "Express" would depart Kansas City at 9:50am Monday morning, and arrive in Los Angeles at 4:15pm Saturday afternoon.  That's a running time of 5 days, 8 hours, 25 minutes (128.5 hours).  Eatbound, the traveler leaving Los Angeles at 8:30am Tuesday morning would arrive in Kansas City 5:45pm on Sunday.  That's 5 days, 7 hours, and 15 minutes (127.25 hours).  That's Los Angeles- Kansas City, not Los Angeles-Chicago.  Probably requiring one or two changes of train en route.
 
In 1884 there may not yet have been a rail link from Chicago to Kansas City (though Rock Island's link from Chicago to Council Bluffs had been in place at least since 1869).  Thus, Chicago-Los Angeles may not have been possible in less than a week to ten days.  Even this, though, was a dramatic improvement.  In the 1860s, Chicago-Los Angeles was a trip of two or three months, each way.
 
Small wonder, then, that when the California Limited debuted in 1892 offering a running time from Chicago to Los Angeles in 72 hours, people caught their breath . . .
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #102 on: May 9th, 2012, 2:48pm »
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Norm:
 
I see that you were as impressed as I was, with this rare find!
 
Just imagine if those good folks of 1884 could have been transported by a time machine to the 1950's, and be treated to a ride on the "SUPER CHIEF"!
 
Open-mouthed astonishment, for sure.......
 
"H.F.M."


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George_Harris
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Posts: 3802
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #103 on: May 9th, 2012, 2:49pm »
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on May 9th, 2012, 12:29pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Cars as handsome and as historic as these are FAR TOO FINE to recycle into beer cans and razor blades!
 
If it's SANTA FE............it is MORE than worth whatever is involved to preserve them for future generations.................
 
"H.F.M."

You have just hit a true sore spot with me.  Recently saw on the news out here in the PRK (that's the People's Republic of Kalifornia for those who have not heard the term) that the icebreaker used to get Robert Byrd within reach of the South Pole is on its way to scrap.  Now, that is a truly historic item.  Yet there are many things being dealt with along the Cali HSR route of no significance whatsoever or at most almost none that are being held out as being historic and therefore untouchable some even to the you can't get near it state.  It appears to depend mostly on who's ox is gored or what can be used as an obstacle by those that are trying to stop this thing by any means they can dream up.  
 
Let's try to save the truly significant.


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #104 on: May 9th, 2012, 3:00pm »
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George:
 
This is truly sad news, but, in all honesty, I hardly find this surprising.
 
Given the near-total disregard for any surviving artifact connected to our Nation's proud past these days, this news is, sadly, status quo.
 
The vessel you just described is a priceless historical relic, one that, quite, obviously, can never be replaced.
 
You think we'd have learned our lessons by now.....
 
"H.F.M."


« Last Edit: May 9th, 2012, 3:01pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
ClydeDET
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Posts: 4783
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #105 on: May 9th, 2012, 5:29pm »
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on May 9th, 2012, 1:30pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde:
 
If you and I (and, of course, our good friend Norm) were to "join forces" in the rail sector, we'd be running one helluva railroad!
 
Our "Business" train would indeed highlight the finest of both the SF and the NH......
 
"H.F.M."

 
Yes, we would indeed. I would probably insist on some Hi-Level sleepers, even a Hi-level office car, i think. Budd had a 1957 proposal for a Hi-Level sleeper that would have been pretty neat. There is  drawing in Arthur Dubin's MORE CLASSIC TRAINS. Described thusly "In1957 Budd proposed a Hi-Level sleeping car for the Super Chief. The car was to have 6 single bedrooms at normal floor level and 8 full-width "Vista Bedrooms" for two persons on the upper level. The rooms were to be arranged in duplex fashion, with crosswise beds in the upper rooms over those in the lower rooms, and lengthwise beds in the upper rooms over the passagewqy up another step. The upstairs bedrooms would have provided a superb view of the Southwest."  
 
The drawing makes it clearer - one crosswise bed that was also a day-time couch  and one lengthwise bed next to the window  on the corridor side of the car. One vestibule at the end of the car. Private toilet for each of the upstairs rooms, and a shared toilet for the downstairs rooms, which have crosswise beds. I suspect they would have been superb cars, and that the downstairs space would not have been that popular, given that it had fewer amenities than a (by 1957) standard roomette. Looking at the car diagram, I suspect space could have been found for toilets for those rooms and if Santa Fe had ordered some, that might have been something they would have asked for (and gotten). On the whole, I lke them better than the Superliner Sleepers. One problem wouyld be that if they were operated with other Hi-Level cars, there would have to be an adapter car at the end of the string of sleepers, as the corridors are at lower level. Capacity would only be 16, which is 8 fewer than a conventional 10-6 (22), or one of the 4-4-2s. That might have had somethibg to do with why Santa Fe didn't buy...


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #106 on: May 9th, 2012, 6:30pm »
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Clyde:
 
GO, MAN, GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Let's have a least SIX domes in the consist, three in SF sliver, and the other three in classic NH McGuiness colors!!
 
Motive power would be likewise attired!<G>
 
"H.F.M."


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #107 on: May 9th, 2012, 8:43pm »
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A proud veteran of the glory years of SF passenger service is heavyweight diner/lounge/obs #1509................
 
http://www.sdrm.org/roster/passenger/din-1509/index.html


« Last Edit: May 9th, 2012, 8:43pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #108 on: May 9th, 2012, 8:54pm »
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An interesting page w/ a number of photos.....
 
http://www.traintrips.biz/santa-fe-express.html


« Last Edit: May 9th, 2012, 8:55pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #109 on: May 9th, 2012, 9:11pm »
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Heavyweight "LA CONDESA" was originally built for the SF as a cafe-observation.
 
An excellent page; don't miss the many related links here.......
 
http://www.slorrm.com/stock_lacondesa.html


« Last Edit: May 9th, 2012, 9:11pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #110 on: May 9th, 2012, 9:18pm »
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"LA CONDESA" historical photo gallery......
 
http://www.slorrm.com/stock_lacon_photos.html


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #111 on: May 9th, 2012, 10:39pm »
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Shop records for "VALLEY"-Series (6-6-4)
 
http://www.pullmanshops.com/atsfvalley.htm
 
http://www.pullmanshops.com/shadowline.htm


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #112 on: May 9th, 2012, 11:31pm »
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AT&SF #33.......a historic relic of distinction...........
 
http://www.businesscar33.com/history.html


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ClydeDET
Historian
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Posts: 4783
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #113 on: May 9th, 2012, 11:38pm »
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on May 9th, 2012, 6:30pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde:
 
GO, MAN, GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Let's have a least SIX domes in the consist, three in SF sliver, and the other three in classic NH McGuiness colors!!
 
Motive power would be likewise attired!<G>
 
"H.F.M."

 
Yeah,  gotta have domes. Have to give some thought about how well Santa Fe fluted stainless steel would work with McGiiness livery. But I think it might work.
 
Thinking of New Haven and McGuiness colors, there is a guy over in Austin who runs a model layout for that period in the New Haven's history. Real change from what you usually see in that part of the world.


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #114 on: May 10th, 2012, 12:04am »
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Clyde:
 
DOMES RULE!!!!!!!!
 
I had a VERY unexpected treat back in 1986, when I boarded the BROADWAY  LIMITED at Union Station, after a short vacation in Chicago, and found a DOME in the consist!
 
WOW!!!!
 
Bygone railroading at its finest!
 
What a rare thrill it was for yours truly, sitting up in the dome, and watching the signals flash by, with a splendid full Moon lighting the way!
 
Still kick myself for not jotting down the car number..........aaaahhh, what fond memories I have, though, of my one and only Dome journey.....
 
"H.F.M."


« Last Edit: May 10th, 2012, 1:34am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #115 on: May 10th, 2012, 1:09am »
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Another historic relic of the SF still with us today is the handsome "LOTUS CLUB" of 1913.............
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25843576@N02/2816236654/


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #116 on: May 10th, 2012, 1:18am »
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See also...........
 
http://www.pullmanproject.com/CCRAdmin.htm


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #117 on: May 10th, 2012, 1:31am »
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Much detail on restoring SF business car #405...........
 
http://www.azrymuseum.org/Projects/405/405.htm


« Last Edit: May 10th, 2012, 1:32am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
ClydeDET
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Posts: 4783
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #118 on: May 10th, 2012, 12:14pm »
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on May 10th, 2012, 12:04am, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde:
 
DOMES RULE!!!!!!!!
 
I had a VERY unexpected treat back in 1986, when I boarded the BROADWAY  LIMITED at Union Station, after a short vacation in Chicago, and found a DOME in the consist!
 
WOW!!!!
 
Bygone railroading at its finest!
 
What a rare thrill it was for yours truly, sitting up in the dome, and watching the signals flash by, with a splendid full Moon lighting the way!
 
Still kick myself for not jotting down the car number..........aaaahhh, what fond memories I have, though, of my one and only Dome journey.....
 
"H.F.M."

 
We went to Chicago on the Lone Star in 1975. Had an ex-Cal Zephyr dome-obs on (I have notes as to which one, but - where they might be at the moment, dunno; memory suggests Silver Penthouse), which made for a pretty neat ride north of Fort Worth through the Arbuckes after we got into Alta Tejas. Onl;y ride in a dome I had until we went to the Grand Canyon in '09. Took the train from Williams (recommended by me), and paid the premium for a dome ride. Well worth it. Now if AMTRAK would just re-acquire and refurbish a few for the Cal Zephyr...


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: Bed 'n Breakfast AT&SF-style
 
« Reply #119 on: May 10th, 2012, 12:32pm »
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HFM -  
 
Ref.: Your account of EB ride on BROADWAY LIMITED, in the 1986 manner?
 
Kindly elaborate. Did you happen to keep any notes about exactly which track you were riding? Particularly, line used CGO - PIT,  
and PIT - East. In the Bad, Old Days, DOMES on P R R didn't happen.
 
What signals do your recall seeing? P R R Position Lights, or B & O Color Position Lights? Over the years, current operator  
has proved as somewhat "fast and loose" with train names.  
 
Back at formation, ATSF wisely insisted there was to be no further use of "SUPER CHIEF" and "CHIEF" labels. BN would have been  
well advised to insist on a similar bar to use of "ZEPHYR" labels, but that's another story. We do have reports wherein SCL sulking  
over continuing use of "SILVER" brands...
 
.......................Vern....................


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
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