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Through cars/commuter cars/rail cars
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   Author  Topic: Through cars/commuter cars/rail cars  (Read 5407 times)
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #500 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 12:58pm »
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HFM -  
 
Oh, this business of ERIE and SUSQ motor cars? See other references. To this writer, they appear "out of the catalog" product  
from EMC/ St Louis Car/ GE. Whether ERIE ever required the so called "Stillwell" roof? Who knows. The builder could be flexible,  
up to a point...
 
The "Motor Cars" are neither here nor there with general proposition of "through" and "commuter" cars. The purpose? Simply to  
meet obligations on timely service for EXPRESS and U S MAIL. Occasional riders were nice, but that simply met PSC/ PUC  
demands. With the introduction of the "Model T" by Henry Ford, quickly adopted as a handy "farm tool" for myriad buyers. It gave  
the farmers a ride to town and back, too!
 
Some of the railroads had some rather involved demands on the "Motor Car" units. See the early ROCK ISLAND units, which were  
all power unit, with space for EXPRESS! Granted, this goes far afield of your general Topic theme...
 
..........................Vern......................


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 12:59pm by HwyHaulier » Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #501 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 1:16pm »
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Vern.....
 
Interesting views, and thanks!
 
You are quite correct; the McKeen (or other "doodlebugs") were neither "through" or "commuter" equipment; more accuratley, they were "jacks of all trades", so to speak, put to work (virtually any work) wherever they were needed.
 
They were (the McKeens) obviously not a all popular with Eastern roads; by far, Midwest and Far West operations seemed to find good use of the type.
 
However, the universal RDC seemed to be just about everywhere, back in the day, easily one of the most adaptable pieces of passenger rail equipment ever to burnish the rails.....
 
"H.F.M."


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 1:17pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #502 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 1:31pm »
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This simply stunning LV unit truly personifies the classic "one-car train" avantage of the "doodlebug"/railcar.
 
Photo was taken at the Jersey City yards, circa-late 1930's; this handsome unit would have been hauling a workaday, run-of-the-mill trailer from Jersey City (stub track adjacent to the LV float bridges, across the street from the CNJ ferry terminal) on local runs to South Plainfield and Manville.
 
Ahh, such a proud machine for so humble a task......
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lv17.jpg


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 1:33pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #503 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 2:03pm »
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HFM -  
 
WHOA! LV #17? Period Car Builders Cyclopedia reported a small order of MACK built Cars, with some to LV. Excellent equipment,  
of trim and attractive lines. In Official Register of 1954, they were gone. The new entries with LV #40 and #41, which were RDC Cars.
 
"...Interesting views, and thanks!...". Hey, I'm in that business, pal! Just to assure I get written receipts for the taxes! Maybe I should  
remove the "views" and "opining" business to a Turks & Caicos permanent address?
 
Besides, I can't figure how to wrap up and package past experience with the railroads, and the truly vexing problems on lightly used  
branch lines. The instructive part of CFWY in the constant exposure to fact that the motor carrier service bailed out any number of  
railroads with branch line problems. Ya' hadta' been there! (Regular service into SW Kansas and Wyoming a real dilemma!)
 
..............................Vern.....................


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #504 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 3:52pm »
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Vern......
 
As always, most refreshing to be further educated and enlightened by "one in the know"!<G>
 
You mentioned the LV (streamlined coach seen at Jersey City earlier was an OSGOOD-BRADLEY product); the following LV units were built by BRILL and EMC/St. Louis Car Company......
 
"H.F.M."
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lv5.jpg
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lv10.jpg
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lv33.jpg


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #505 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 4:36pm »
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HFM -  
 
Be most careful! I'm  persuaded there were several MACK units in the mix! Try to get the entire L V RR report. (The EMC and BRILL units being "gimmes")
 
...........Faithful Correspondent % General Delivery, Turks & Caicos Isl...............Vern.....


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #506 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 4:53pm »
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on Apr 25th, 2012, 4:36pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
HFM -  
 
Be most careful! I'm  persuaded there were several MACK units in the mix! Try to get the entire L V RR report. (The EMC and BRILL units being "gimmes")
 
...........Faithful Correspondent % General Delivery, Turks & Caicos Isl...............Vern.....

 
Vern......
 
Good advice, and I'm way aherad of you on that note!<G>
 
Largely from yourself, I've learned that you cannot take many photo captions/info simply at face value.....all too often, as we've we've found out, things are NOT what they seem at all.........
 
"H.F.M."


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 4:55pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #507 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 7:36pm »
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All:
 
A little extra info on LV "doodlebug" #17.
 
The car was built (as mentioned previously) by OSGOOD-BRADLEY ( 1928 ), with a seating capacity of 30.
 
In 1938, the car was streamlined by Otto Kuhler.......
 
"H.F.M."


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 7:37pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #508 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 9:56pm »
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Classic image of SF's M-181; again, photos like this clearly exemplify the benefits of a "one car train" motorcar......
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/sf_M181.jpg


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 9:57pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #509 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 10:29pm »
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From commuter to "through".......
 
By the 60's, the E-L converted some surplus Stillwells into rider cars, for use on freights or pure mail/express trains.
 
These cars now carried only active or deadheading crews, and were also shorn of their steam heating equipment. (note the stovepipe in this view).
 
At the time of this 1966 photo at Dearborn Station, Stillwells still made up the backbone of the ex-ERIE suburban lines out of Hoboken.
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/erie-r21.jpg


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 10:30pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #510 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 10:33pm »
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E-L rider Stillwell bringing up the rear of an unidentified train (again, note the stovepipe).......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/bldg/sterling11.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #511 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 10:59pm »
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As I'd mentioned earlier, the ex-ERIE "through line" Stillwells could still be found on a number of E-L through trains, well into the 60's.
 
In their last years, however, they were relegated to commuter service, especially on the Port Jervis trains, where they ran until 1974.
 
These handsome cars were easily recognized, especially by thier two-tone green paint.....
 
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1895548
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/el-c2709ags.jpg
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/el-c2906.jpg


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 11:00pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #512 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 11:21pm »
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on Apr 25th, 2012, 9:56pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Classic image of SF's M-181; again, photos like this clearly exemplify the benefits of a "one car train" motorcar......
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/sf_M181.jpg

 
 
HFM, this was a bit before my time, but the location is almost certainly Pasadena, California, a mile or so east of the Pasadena depot.
 
Despite what you might think from the encroaching foliage, this was Santa Fe's passenger mainline between Los Angeles and San Bernardino (and points east), and daily hosted the Santa Fe's transcontinental varnish.  This Doodlebug is most likely eastbound, holding down the schedule of local Train 42 (known to locals as the Chippewa Chief).  This all-stops accommodation run between Los Angeles and San Bernardino once consisted of a steam locomotive hauling one or two cars; but the motor car got the job done just as well, and probably a lot more cheaply.
 
I've seen timetables from the period, and each morning those rails would host a Warbonnet parade-- Super Chief, El Capitan, Chief, Grand Canyon, Scout, California Limited . . .-- one consist or the other scheduled every 15 to 30 minutes (and that didn't count the second sections!).  Then, after the westbound horde had tied up at LAUPT, little Train 42 here would head east to do the maid's work.  It looks to be just about noon as the photographer snaps the shutter.
 
I'm not quite certain which north-south street is being crossed here in Pasadena, but I can smell the Deodar and Eucalyptus trees and hear the clang of the wigwag crossing signal as if I were standing right there.
 
 
You've done it again, HFM.
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 11:53pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #513 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 11:35pm »
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Norm.....
 
Just thought you might be interested in these.......
 
Enjoy!
 
"H.F.M."
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/sfM185.jpg
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/sfM190.jpg
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-m160ads.jpg


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2012, 11:37pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #514 on: Apr 25th, 2012, 11:51pm »
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on Apr 25th, 2012, 11:35pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Norm.....
 
Just thought you might be interested in these.......
 
Enjoy!
 
"H.F.M."
 
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-m160ads.jpg

 
 
This photo is intriguing on several levels:  
 
1.  If you look closely, I believe the M-160 here is hauling a round-end Chair Observation Car-- probably the last round-end Obs. in Santa Fe service.
 
2.  The train ran between Carlsbad and Clovis, NM-- with connections at Clovis, I believe, to the San Francisco Chief or to the Grand Canyon.
 
3.  Carlsbad was Santa Fe's gateway to Carlsbad Caverns National Monument.  In the days of steam, just as the Grand Canyon Limited once offered the option of a through Sleeper that overnighted at the Grand Canyon, so the Scout once offered a through Sleeper service that overnighted at Carlsbad, so tourists could see the Caverns on their journey west (or east).
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #515 on: Apr 26th, 2012, 12:09am »
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Norm.....
 
Again, my pleasure!
 
In "SANTA FE RAILWAY", by Steve Glischinski, there is a 1968 photo, captioned as follows:
 
".......another obscure local train was Nos. 13 and 14, beween Albuquerque and El Paso, 253 miles.......the train served as a connection to the S.F. CHIEF at Belen, and the SUPER CHIEF and EL CAPITAN at Albuquerque......"
 
Photo shows two RDC's handling this train (No. 14).......
 
"H.F.M."


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #516 on: Apr 26th, 2012, 12:18am »
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Norm/All:
 
Also of related interest.....
 
http://www.lafire.com/famous_fires/1956-0122_SantaFeTrainWreck/1956-0122_SantaFeTrainWreck.htm  ("Bad Night At Redondo Junction")


« Last Edit: Apr 26th, 2012, 2:11am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #517 on: Apr 26th, 2012, 2:17am »
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The same SF RDC's involved in the accident described in the link posted in previous reply; both were rebuilt (one with a baggage compartment), and both rebuilt for single-ended operation only.
 
They were retired in 1968......
 
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=949197


« Last Edit: Apr 26th, 2012, 2:20am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #518 on: Apr 26th, 2012, 8:19am »
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on Apr 25th, 2012, 7:36pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
All:
 
A little extra info on LV "doodlebug" #17.
 
The car was built (as mentioned previously) by OSGOOD-BRADLEY ( 1928 ), with a seating capacity of 30...    

HFM -  
 
We may be noting the same cars? OSGOOD - BRADLEY, with complex at Worcester, MA, a sub of PULLMAN STANDARD.  
It was long, and first, a coach and car builder.
 
Now, recall the correct labeling of period E M C Motor Cars. More complete noted as EMC/ St Louis Car/ GE, in many examples.  
Compare the photos of the MACK Cars. The trim lines of the coach very strongly reminds of OSGOOD - BRADLEY work. At the  
same time, MACK could take the credit for the power plant and related engineering.
 
Might be the same cars? Beats me! I wasn't there!
 
.............................Vern.......................


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #519 on: Apr 26th, 2012, 10:23am »
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Vern.......
 
Did a little further research through my rail library; the following from "A HISTORY OF THE LEHIGH VALLEY RAILROAD", by Robert F. Archer:
 
"........so impressive were the savings in operating costs when compared to steam, that, in late 1925, five gas-electric motor cars with lightweight trailers were put in operation......."
 
"........by 1931, the LV had 26 motor cars and a small fleet of passenger trailers working branches and mainline locals all over the sytsem......"
 
One photo shows a particularly fearsome-looking #19; this unit was powered by an ELECTRO-MOTIVE power plant, with a body by BETHLEHEM STEEL.
 
Another photo depicts a BRILL unit...........
 
"H.F.M."
 


« Last Edit: Apr 26th, 2012, 10:25am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
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