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Through cars/commuter cars/rail cars
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   Author  Topic: Through cars/commuter cars/rail cars  (Read 5617 times)
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #340 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 12:43pm »
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"Back To The Future", revisited.......
 
http://www.privateline.com/PCS/metroliner.htm


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #341 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 12:52pm »
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Early photo of #826, displaying the proud PRR keystone......for the moment.....
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr826.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #342 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 12:57pm »
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From the OFFICIAL GUIDE, Feb., 1970.
 
Interesting observations at the bottom of page.....
 
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/metroliner197002.html


« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2012, 12:58pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3826
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #343 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 1:06pm »
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on Apr 20th, 2012, 12:26pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde -  
 
Had a parallel thought on it. What if the deal had started as a prime contract for the military? It would have been improved and modified until the cows returned to home base, at least! <G>
 
..........................Vern......................

Ah, yes.
 
I spent a good bit of time wandering around in Nam in  a jeep with this nice little plate on the dash informing me that this was built under government contract whatever number at a cost of $3,100 (can't remember the last digits, but it went through dollars and cents).  At that time I could walk into any AMC dealer in the US and buy a jeep with a six cylinder engine and in general mechanically much better for $2,600 something.  The wonders of government specifications and mass purchasing cost over $500 per unit.  
 
And people wonder why the thought of the govm't taking care of my basic needs does not give me a warm fuzzy feelling.
 
In my first years after getting out of the green suit, I was working on WMATA.  When we would put out a contract for the various track items, the technical specification part would all but be lost in the legalease and boilerplate necessary in contracts that had and federal funding.


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #344 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 1:21pm »
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Gallery of vintage METROLINER photos.....
 
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?locomotive=Metroliner


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #345 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 1:24pm »
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Also of interest.....
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Metroliner


« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2012, 1:25pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3440
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #346 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 1:58pm »
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HFM -  
 
There you go, again! With METROLINER, the caveat about position of the PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD. The movie line, "It is not what I wanted!"  
(Anon.? <G>) Sources report P R R with a corporate culture it demanded Crew Protection. It did not want high speed equipment with crew "hung  
out to dry" in forward cabs, as done with Metroliner. (At the time, other voices urging, "Well, we are going to close all of the grade crossings!".
 
In any case, your writer urges P R R demonstrated its thinking with the KEYSTONE Train of 1956. See account (link here) wherein when it was  
all over, the apparent complaint was the riders needed to step up/ step down a (very few) steps to the main seating area. Else, pure engineering  
of it tells us the KEYSTONE should have been matching decade later timings of later METROLINER.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_%28train%29
 
Also: Colleague Bowen's account, times not as quick: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/keystone195607.html
 
.......................Vern.................
 


« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2012, 2:04pm by HwyHaulier » Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #347 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 2:10pm »
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Vern.....
 
As always, good, valid points!
 
Appeciate your input!
 
I cannot agree with you more, regarding crew safety aboard the MU Metroliner; they were, simply stated, directly in the line of fire, in case of accident.
 
This was NOT the H&M, folks!
 
Now, consider the GG-1, with the cabs high up in the center of the carbodies, and lengthy hoods fore and aft.
 
Here, without a doubt, was a solid, well-thought out design, clearly not only with visibility in mind, but, of much greater importance, the safety of the engine crew.
 
Not at all pretty, thinking of what might have happened to METROLINER crews at those high speeds, in case of an accident.....
 
"H.F.M."


« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2012, 3:38pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #348 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 2:18pm »
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A GG-1 powered NY&LB "heritage" train at South Amboy, 1981.
 
This view does indeed exemplify the "safe" position of the cab in the center of the car body, and its removal of the crew from the "point of impact" up front.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/njdot/njt4875arc.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #349 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 2:21pm »
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Perth Amboy (NY&LB) 1981.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/njdot/njt4884arc.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #350 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 2:50pm »
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Like the vintage coaches serving NY&LB commuters during the 70's and into the 80's, the E60 electrics, themselves, were cast-offs, coming from AMTRAK.
 
Though the cabs are positioned at a high level, they still are at the very ends of the unit; again, not at all conducive with the highest level of crew safety.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/njdot/njt963ags.jpg


« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2012, 3:38pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #351 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 7:16pm »
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Another colorful NY&LB "Jersey Builder" consist at Matawan, 1979.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/njdot/njt4111irc.jpg


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #352 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 7:23pm »
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All:
 
I posted the link for this 1970's photo quite awhile back here, but wanted to post it again, for those who might have missed it the first time around.
 
At the Bay Head yard for NY&LB trains (at the time of this photo, CNJ and PC) we see an ex-FEC Budd observation in a CNJ consist, awaiting the next run back to Newark.
 
Also note the CNJ "Liberty" herald......
 
http://www.thebluecomet.com/nylb_FECobs_bayhead.jpg


« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2012, 7:24pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
ClydeDET
Historian
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Posts: 4794
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #353 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 7:29pm »
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on Apr 20th, 2012, 1:06pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Ah, yes.
 
I spent a good bit of time wandering around in Nam in  a jeep with this nice little plate on the dash informing me that this was built under government contract whatever number at a cost of $3,100 (can't remember the last digits, but it went through dollars and cents).  At that time I could walk into any AMC dealer in the US and buy a jeep with a six cylinder engine and in general mechanically much better for $2,600 something.  The wonders of government specifications and mass purchasing cost over $500 per unit.  
 
And people wonder why the thought of the govm't taking care of my basic needs does not give me a warm fuzzy feelling.
 
In my first years after getting out of the green suit, I was working on WMATA.  When we would put out a contract for the various track items, the technical specification part would all but be lost in the legalease and boilerplate necessary in contracts that had and federal funding.

 
 
Expect those were M-151s, the Mutt as some called them (I never heard them clled anything but Quarter-ton or 151, myself) George. If so, a lot of that extra money went into the swing axle independent suspinsion fore and aft, with coil springs instead of the live axles and leaf springs of the CJs (that were  borrowed from the WWII Jeeps and the product improved M38 1/4 tons that followed the Jeep and preceeded the M-151).


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ClydeDET
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Posts: 4794
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #354 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 7:33pm »
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on Apr 20th, 2012, 2:10pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Vern.....
 
As always, good, valid points!
 
Appeciate your input!
 
I cannot agree with you more, regarding crew safety aboard the MU Metroliner; they were, simply stated, directly in the line of fire, in case of accident.
 
This was NOT the H&M, folks!
 
Now, consider the GG-1, with the cabs high up in the center of the carbodies, and lengthy hoods fore and aft.
 
Here, without a doubt, was a solid, well-thought out design, clearly not only with visibility in mind, but, of much greater importance, the safety of the engine crew.
 
Not at all pretty, thinking of what might have happened to METROLINER crews at those high speeds, in case of an accident.....
 
"H.F.M."

 
You do know that the first PRR road electrics, the P-5s (I think P-5s) were end-cab, flat-faced units. And were revised into the P-5a with center cabs after at least one fatal collision, with the GG-1 carrying that on.


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #355 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 8:09pm »
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Clyde:
 
Yes, that much I already knew, but it is always good to have a "refresher course"!
 
With MU equipment, of course, the only location for the engineer/motorman would be the end vestibules.
 
The tragic LIRR wrecks around 1950 sadly more than drove that point home.
 
Recall, too, the PRR DD-1's, and early electric power on the NH; those end platforms would do very little to protect the crew in case of a serious collision, despite their heavy construction.....
 
"H.F.M."


« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2012, 8:09pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #356 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 8:13pm »
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Clyde:
 
See the following......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr4700.jpg
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr4770.jpg


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ClydeDET
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Posts: 4794
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #357 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 9:28pm »
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on Apr 20th, 2012, 8:09pm, HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde:
 
Yes, that much I already knew, but it is always good to have a "refresher course"!
 
With MU equipment, of course, the only location for the engineer/motorman would be the end vestibules.
 
The tragic LIRR wrecks around 1950 sadly more than drove that point home.
 
Recall, too, the PRR DD-1's, and early electric power on the NH; those end platforms would do very little to protect the crew in case of a serious collision, despite their heavy construction.....
 
"H.F.M."

 
Well, the DD-1s and the other Pennsy electrics before the P-5s weren't really road engines out on the main-lines at high speeds, so they would have had less need for crash protection. But a good amny other roads that did run them fast had flat faces: New Haven, for example.


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HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #358 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 10:48pm »
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Clyde:
 
No second-guessing engineer cab safety with these hulking monsters.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/milw/milw-e2v.jpg
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/milw/milw-e3arc.jpg
 


« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2012, 10:48pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HARRY FOSTER MALONE ESQ
Former Member
Re: Through cars/commuter cars
 
« Reply #359 on: Apr 20th, 2012, 11:11pm »
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During the 1960's, the N&W utilized several heavyweights similiar to this car in their Chicago suburban service (Dearborn Staiton to Orland Park).
 
These cars were all former through cars, and were modernized with air-conditioning, modern bullet lighting, and new luggage racks.
 
After these cars were removed from through train service, their reclining seats were replaced by non-recliners fixed face-to-face in pairs, since the equipment was never wyed.
 
The cars seated 68 passengers.....
 
http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=90380


« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2012, 11:12pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
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