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"Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
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   Author  Topic: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"  (Read 2271 times)
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #80 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 12:10pm »
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See also.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-ptp23.gif


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HwyHaulier
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Posts: 3433
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #81 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 2:07pm »
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on Mar 16th, 2012, 12:10pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
See also.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-ptp23.gif    

SM -  
 
This, and other related exhibit, documents mandates on the A T S F for statutory provision of services on selected pairs of points on its  
"Main", and, on other "Branch" routings. It an accepted practice for publication of Schedules where Highway service substituted for Rail.
 
With the schedules naming CONTINENTAL, chances are the Bus Service long established, and done earlier as SANTA FE TRAILS. In
older Folders, much other service on smaller branch lines. In many cases, Rail service with "Motor Car" (Gas or Diesel/ Electric) units...
 
.......................Vern......................


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #82 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 5:00pm »
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Vern:
 
Quickly browsed through Fall 1963 Santa Fe TT in my collection, and found the following bus companies listed as connections at various points:
 
ORANGE BELT STAGES
 
TEXAS MOTOR COACHES
 
Notation has buses of ORANGE BELT connecting with SP Train #51 at Bakersfield.
 
Want to pursue this more in detail later on this evening.....
 
"SM"


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #83 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 6:17pm »
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SM -  
 
ORANGE BELT (Subject Note: AFAIK) remains active, and presents a nicely done website.
 
Caveat: It is collateral information, and little to do with Route Of The SUPER CHIEF. The "Bay Area Line" leaves the  
Main at Barstow, travels thru Bakersfield, Fresno, Richmond, and end of line at Oakland. In the body of ATSF work,  
on the "Central Valley Line" it had any number of lighter branches, most of which had rail service. Later, bus and truck  
support substituted...
 
.......................Vern....................


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #84 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 8:24pm »
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on Mar 16th, 2012, 6:17pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
SM -  
 
ORANGE BELT (Subject Note: AFAIK) remains active, and presents a nicely done website.
 
Caveat: It is collateral information, and little to do with Route Of The SUPER CHIEF. The "Bay Area Line" leaves the  
Main at Barstow, travels thru Bakersfield, Fresno, Richmond, and end of line at Oakland. In the body of ATSF work,  
on the "Central Valley Line" it had any number of lighter branches, most of which had rail service. Later, bus and truck  
support substituted...
 
.......................Vern....................

 
Vern.....
 
Appreciate additinal info...thank you!
 
Am now recalling 1960's-era home movie footage I have on a VHS tape given to me ages ago by a California buddy, showing a line-up of UP coaches at Bakersfield, meeting incoming trains, before departing on various routes.....
 
"SM"


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #85 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 8:27pm »
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Condensed E/B and W/B Santa Fe timetables (1966).....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-ptp06.gif
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-ptp07.gif


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ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #86 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 10:39pm »
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When I started law school at Baylor (Waco) in the fall quarter of 1971, AMTRAK had taken over, but the Texas Chief still operated Houston to Chicago (indeed, it was the only Texas passenger serice other than the tri-weekly Sunset). Chair cars were Hi-Levels, and the claims for them in the timetable example are entirely true. I would sometimes, when in need of a break, drive over to McGregor, buy a round-trip to Fort Worth and ride up to Cowtown and back. If they were running late north-bound and the southbound was on tiime, would de-train at Cleburne and catch the southbound back from there. The Hi-Levels were a good ride. I recall them (and that may be nostalgia speaking) as quieter and better riding than the Superliners.

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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #87 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 10:45pm »
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Ancient hyrogliphics from a long-extinct, proud empire.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-chief-awp.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #88 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 10:51pm »
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Appearances are indeed decieving.....
 
Though this photo would appear to be a SANTA FE-era photo, it actually dates to the early AMTRAK era.
 
Proud echoes of a more glorious past were still around.....but living on borrowed time....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-train-hwp.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #89 on: Mar 16th, 2012, 11:09pm »
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Several stunning paintings on this page (all images can be enlarged) recalling the glory days of SANTA FE passenger travel......
 
http://www.railroademporium.com/santa-fe.html


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Les_Shepherd
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Posts: 424
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #90 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 7:47am »
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This is a most informative thread. The unrestrained nostalgia leaves one feeling very warm and fuzzy. This cannot be a bad thing.
 
The Super Chief and its siblings probably died a little earlier than they might have and clearly the change of culture had most to do with it. However some of the views expressed are open to comment.
 
With the onslaught of jet aircraft what fares would have been necessary for survival...that is as a passenger service and not a 'luxe' train. We can get some idea from ViaRail and their transcontinental services. I have recently booked an all sleeper trip Toronto-Winnipeg-Churchill-Winnipeg-Vancouver and the ticket has cost over $2,500. There is undoubtedly some kind of government subsidy in this fare.
 
Just how wonderful is domestic US First class air travel? From my experience, not very good. On my last visit I did several domestic sectors in First class on American.
I was singularly not impressed. A little more leg room and an orange juice was about the biggest difference from cattle class. Worse is the huge fleets of MD11 aircarft operated by American & United. The last of these heritage units left our own domestic service before the end of the 1970's.
 
The mention of Liners is timely. The ships do operate year round but during the northern winter the take on world circumnavigations. The QM2 was in Sydney for the second time this year only last week. The numbers of these ships coming in can be so heavy that wharf space runs out and they have to anchor in the stream and use tenders. The Navy is about to be pushed out of it Sydney home to make more space for the cruise traffic. None of these ships is small and they are usually pretty fully booked.  This suggest a market of the 'rail cruise' business.
 
A 4 hour air trip will always win over a 2 day train trip, no matter how attentive the service. We have been a little more fortunate here in that we have saved enough of one of our prestige trains to be able to run regular 4-6 day 'tours'. The train will be celebrate its 50the anniversary on the 14th of next month and will be doing a month long tour of the east coast. All Budd licenced cars.
 
The nostalgia and the photos in particular are wonderful.


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #91 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 8:21am »
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on Mar 16th, 2012, 8:24pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...Am now recalling 1960's-era home movie footage I have on a VHS tape given to me ages ago by a California buddy, showing a line-up of UP coaches at Bakersfield, meeting incoming trains, before departing on various routes.....  

SM -  
 
Back to the Maps and Official Guides to confirm? Why would U P been at Bakersfield? The play there with the connecting  
A T S F support. Else, the point also served by ESPEE...
 
("You know you might be an Old Coot, when you always talk of the old lines in present U P RR System." Ex.: Your writer  
says lines West of Salt Lake City are LA & SL and OSL! <G>) N.B. http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/maps/sysmap.shtml
 
........................Vern................


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2012, 9:34am by HwyHaulier » Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #92 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 10:47am »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 8:21am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

SM -  
 
Back to the Maps and Official Guides to confirm? Why would U P been at Bakersfield? The play there with the connecting  
A T S F support. Else, the point also served by ESPEE...
 
("You know you might be an Old Coot, when you always talk of the old lines in present U P RR System." Ex.: Your writer  
says lines West of Salt Lake City are LA & SL and OSL! <G>) N.B. http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/maps/sysmap.shtml
 
........................Vern................

 
Vern.........
 
An "oops!" on the part of yours truly, as I had not watched the video in quite awhile; depot was EAST LOS ANGELES; train was, of course, UP.
 
Whay confused me was that, before this footage, there were some scenes filmed at and around the SF's SAN DIEGO station, with an SF train at the platform.
 
See what happens when you get so little sleep?<G>
 
Still, vintage UP buses were a sheer delight to watch; train was carrying modernized open-end business car on the tail.
 
The aforementioned footage (judging by the autos and other vehicles seen) clearly dated to the mid/late 60's.
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2012, 10:51am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #93 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 10:56am »
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Les:
 
Glad you've been enjoying the thread (you ain't alone, my friend!), and I also  enjoyed reading your views.
 
Yes, it's clear that ANY mode of travel these days has virtually none of the charm and the class it had back in the 50's and 60's.....far too many drastic changed in the world.....demographics, economics, travel patterns......all played a tremendous factor in the great changes we have seen in all sectors of public transportation, over the past several decades.
 
As is obvious but what has been posted here thus far, the SANTA FE was clearly the "leader of the pack", truly in a legue all its own!
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2012, 10:57am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #94 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 11:02am »
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Forth Worth, Texas, 1973.
 
Though we are already two years into AMTRAK, this scene is pure SANTA FE.......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-train-kbp.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2012, 11:02am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #95 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 1:46pm »
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A classic circa-1936 view of the SUPER CHIEF at Winona, Arizona......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf1abw.jpg


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HwyHaulier
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Posts: 3433
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #96 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 2:10pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 1:46pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
A classic circa-1936 view of the SUPER CHIEF at Winona, Arizona......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf1abw.jpg  

SM -  
 
Possibly a "publicity glossy" from A T S F, P. R. folks? Note the "new power" could do but so much, and there were only  
seven cars behind!
 
Les -  
 
Great to see your post! I have a detailed reply in my head, but feel much too lazy to do it, just right now. I have wondered,  
too, about "Grand Tour" buyers. We do have ninety (90) Cruise Line sailings each year, here at Baltimore...
 
....................Vern...................
 
 
 
 


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #97 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 2:22pm »
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Handsome 4-8-4 hauling streamlined "CHIEF" equipment in this undated photo.
 
Steamer looks mighty find indeed with such a crack consist!
 
(second car is a heavyweight RPO)
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-s3777abw.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2012, 2:25pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #98 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 4:04pm »
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Cleburne, Texas, 1972.
 
AMTRAK is now in charge of running the show, and yet, for those watching from trackside, the SANTA FE is still alive and well.........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-train-pwp.jpg


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ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #99 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 5:09pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 1:46pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
A classic circa-1936 view of the SUPER CHIEF at Winona, Arizona......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf1abw.jpg

 
1 and 1A (Amos and Andy) with the first, heavyweight conist, really a test of the locomotives, and schedule. And boy did they get some testing,,,


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