Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. May 23rd, 2017, 8:36am
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


"Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Varnish
   Passenger Trains
(Moderator: coaster)
   "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  ...  15 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"  (Read 2266 times)
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #40 on: Mar 14th, 2012, 10:19pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Also of interest......
 
(here it is noted that, when AMTRAK was formed, 1/3 of the rolling stock came from the SANTA FE)
 
http://www.atmos.ucla.edu/~cwhung/santa-chief.html


« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2012, 10:21pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #41 on: Mar 14th, 2012, 10:26pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

"SUPER CHIEF" schedule from September, 1938.
 
Equipment also listed here......
 
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track5/superchief193809.html


« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2012, 10:27pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #42 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 12:04am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

See also.....
 
http://www.american-rails.com/super-chief.html


Logged
floppy1dog
TRAINing
Posts: 15
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #43 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 7:51am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Very good stuff! Thank you!!!

Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #44 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 9:10am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Mar 14th, 2012, 10:13pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
"CARS OF THE 1953 SUPER CHIEF" (1953).....
 
http://www.atsfrr.com/resources/Hoffman/Super%20Chief.htm

SM -  
 
Methodical piece of work! Note it supports the consist of the SUPER CHIEF, just before 1958, a twelve (12) to fourteen (14) car setup.  
Actual A T S F schedules likely show there was no enroute switching in and out of cars. No time for it on the demanding scheduled timings...
 
........................Vern....................


Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #45 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 9:11am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

on Mar 15th, 2012, 7:51am, floppy1dog wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Very good stuff! Thank you!!!

 
Anytime!
 
You're most welcome!
 
"SM"


Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #46 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 9:14am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

on Mar 15th, 2012, 9:10am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

SM -  
 
Methodical piece of work! Note it supports the consist of the SUPER CHIEF, just before 1958, a twelve (12) to fourteen (14) car setup.  
Actual A T S F schedules likely show there was no enroute switching in and out of cars. No time for it on the demanding scheduled timings...
 
........................Vern....................

 
Vern......
 
It's quite obvious that the Santa Fe had this finally coreographed, with eveything geared to to the umpteenth degree of efficiency!
 
Clearly, the SF was NOT a force to be trifled with, when it came to treating customers like royalty!
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2012, 9:15am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #47 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 9:44am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

An excellent page for modeling the 1951-53 SUPER CHIEF"; interesting prototype equipment info as well here.....
 
http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/sc51.htm


Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #48 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 10:02am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Anyone in the mood for French Toast?<G>
 
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/French-Toast-Santa-Fe-105506


Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #49 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 10:16am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Mar 15th, 2012, 9:44am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
An excellent page for modeling the 1951-53 SUPER CHIEF"; interesting prototype equipment info as well here.....
 
http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/sc51.htm

SM -  
 
Remarkable entry here is the RPO car, on KCY - LAX service.
 
We may also infer a "Second Section" of SUPER CHIEF could not be done, as required specialized cars  
(of exact design on schedule runs) were not in the available pool...
 
.......................Vern....................
 
 


Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
ehbowen
Railfan
Posts: 242
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #50 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 11:18am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Mar 15th, 2012, 10:02am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Anyone in the mood for French Toast?<G>
 
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/French-Toast-Santa-Fe-105506

 
From the link:
 
    5 (3/4-inch-thick) slices from an unsliced loaf of firm white sandwich bread or challah
    1 cup heavy cream
    4 large eggs, lightly beaten
    1/4 teaspoon salt
    About 4 cups vegetable oil for frying
    Confectioners sugar for dusting
 
Four--count 'em, FOUR--eggs, for a single serving!
 
Talk about rich!


Logged

--------Eric H. Bowen

Now 200 classic timetables online, transcribed into machine-readable and searchable format:

Check it out here: Streamliner Schedules!

Historic timetables of the great trains of the past!
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #51 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 11:45am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

ehbowen:
 
Well, I guess it's safe to say what I'll be whippin' up for Sunday breakfast!
 
MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm.......
 
"SM"


Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #52 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 11:48am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

June, 1967 schedules for the SUPER CHIEF and the EL CAPITAN (equipment also listed)......
 
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track5/superchief196706.html


« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2012, 11:48am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #53 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 12:23pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Mar 15th, 2012, 11:48am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
June, 1967 schedules for the SUPER CHIEF and the EL CAPITAN (equipment also listed)......
 
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track5/superchief196706.html

SM - Eric - All -  
 
Not sure if I see a degradation of timing? Tables report DEPT CGO 6:30 PM (CT). ARRV LAX 9:00 AM (PT). Total: 36 HR 30 MIN?
 
............................Vern......................


Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
ehbowen
Railfan
Posts: 242
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #54 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 12:37pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Mar 15th, 2012, 12:23pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

SM - Eric - All -  
 
Not sure if I see a degradation of timing? Tables report DEPT CGO 6:30 PM (CT). ARRV LAX 9:00 AM (PT). Total: 36 HR 30 MIN?
 
............................Vern......................

 
Vern--the time zones are throwing you off. Six-thirty Chicago time is 4:30 p.m. Pacific time. Add 36 hours and you get to 4:30 a.m. the third day. Add another four and a half hours to 9:00 a.m. and you get a total of 40-1/2 hours.
 
For a few years in the mid-50's the Super Chief's running time was cut to 39-1/2 hours bumper to bumper. In fact, for a while the regular Chief's time was cut to 39-1/2 hours to match and actually offered one-night-out service from Chicago to LA (albeit with an early morning departure out of Dearborn and a very late-night arrival at LAX). I'm planning to do one of these timetables in the not-too-distant future.
 
I believe that the Super's time was padded an hour after it was combined with El Capitan. I've also heard stories that Santa Fe had done some research into track-train dynamics (movie cameras mounted under the cars; that kind of thing) and found out that jointed rail and 100+ MPH running is not a good mix; that may have motivated them to "tone it down" a bit.


Logged

--------Eric H. Bowen

Now 200 classic timetables online, transcribed into machine-readable and searchable format:

Check it out here: Streamliner Schedules!

Historic timetables of the great trains of the past!
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #55 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 1:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Eric -  
 
Thanks! The "time shifting" phenomena made me crazy. I worked with LAX 0900 HR (PT) ARRV same as 0700 HR (CT). So, I had it wrong as 36H:30M?
A T S F "Standard Clock" at CGO, AFAIK...
 
Rather good that A T S F elected to "ratchet it back" in its own tests of track dynamics. The engineering basics can get you, every time. As time went on,  
it would have made the ICC crazy, had they been able to nail times actual speeds at time of an incident. (Its field guys weren't checking it!)
 
None of any testimony after the fact would have mitigated the reported facts. But, we all knew that several carriers ran very quickly...
 
.............................Vern.....................


Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #56 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 1:45pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

All:
 
Another interesting "historical" page (w/photos).......
 
http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r005.html


Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #57 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 2:34pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

"THE HISTORY OF SANTA FE's 93"........
 
http://www.gptm.us/html/santafe93history.htm


Logged
George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3802
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #58 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 3:29pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Mar 15th, 2012, 12:37pm, ehbowen wrote:       (Click here for original message)

I believe that the Super's time was padded an hour after it was combined with El Capitan. I've also heard stories that Santa Fe had done some research into track-train dynamics (movie cameras mounted under the cars; that kind of thing) and found out that jointed rail and 100+ MPH running is not a good mix; that may have motivated them to "tone it down" a bit.

"100+"  The maximum official speed limit on the ATSF was 100 mph, and there was a list of steam engines that were allowed to run that speed.
 
However: . . . . we all know how speed limits were respected in the day when on time for the top trains was considered highly important, and were operated by engineers at the very top of their territory's seniority list.  
 
These were men who knew their 100 mile plus territory like the back of their hands, and therefore knew, probably to the fraction of a mph, just how much speed they could get away with where.  I recall reading somewhere that in the mid to late 1950's and early 1960's, the average age of the engineers on the top passenger trains in this country was something like 70 to 71.  These guys could probably run their territories properly and precisely with their eyes shut.  
 
Additionally, many of the Trainmasters that were nominally supervising these men had been engineers before they went into management and a lot of them kept themselves qualified to run trains on their territories, so they knew precisely what could and could not be done on their territories, including how much you could safely fudge the timetabled speed limits.  A report on the performance of the top passenger trains, maybe even including the top freight trains, would probably be on the company presidents desk when he walked into his office every day, and if these trains were not "on the advertized" there had better be a good reason for it.  The whole "corporate culture" in the railroad world was completely different then from what it is today.


« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2012, 3:36pm by George_Harris » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #59 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 3:48pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

ASF public TT (1966).
 
Multiple links on this page......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-ptt66.html


Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  ...  15 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »