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"Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
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   Author  Topic: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"  (Read 2306 times)
HwyHaulier
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Posts: 3438
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #260 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:38am »
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on Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:16am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Lengthy consist at Pasadena, 1966 (no further info available)....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf38Cdsa.jpg

SM - All -  
 
Compare with earlier remarks here from Norm. Note six (6) power units. We can estimate they may have been on between  
Barstow and Pasadena (Los Angeles). East of Barstow may have required but four (4) units.
 
In another matter? Noted, "...Would you rather I "over romanticsize" over GENISIS or ACELA equipment?<G>
 
The "PA" was just so damn gorgeous!

 
No, not at all! This is simply making a case to "keep it objective". Should a writer wish to run "op-ed" remarks, with a theme  
to "rhapsodize" an event, the use of "IMHO" is preferred? (Yes, yes! I have too much time in writing copy, fit for A-P-A Manual  
standards.) In the example noted, what to make of a talk with an "old timer" with nothing good to say about ALCO Power?
 
...........................Vern.....................


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #261 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 12:46pm »
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Vern.....
 
Well, from a "Go Greenie" enviormentalist's standpoint, any ALCO product was clearly the work of ol' Beezlebub himself!<G>
 
I still have vivid memories of CNJ RS-3's on westbound runs accelerating out of the W. 8th St. station in Bayonne.......they'd be chugging and gasping and snorting and smoking up a storm as they geared up for the long climb up to the long-gone Newark Bay lift bridge....WHAT A SHOW!
 
But, surely, as you say, veteran hoggers would be quick to decipher any sort of cranky, balky characteristics to make their lives a bit more interesting......little room for romance, surely!
 
Nuthin's perfect.....
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2012, 12:57pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #262 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 1:04pm »
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Kansas City, 1952........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf75n.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #263 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 1:12pm »
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The "tonnage" version of the famed Warbonnet scheme was as impressive as that used on the passenger power (surely, streamlined car bodies also helped)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf226abw.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #264 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 3:39pm »
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"SOLITARY SPLENDOR" (no date/location on this photo)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf0084gea.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #265 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 10:04pm »
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Amarillo, Texas, circa-late 50's (no further info available)
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf17aph.jpg


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Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #266 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:24pm »
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on Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:16am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Lengthy consist at Pasedena, 1966 (no further info available)....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf38Cdsa.jpg

 
 
SM, this is none other than Train 17, the combined Super Chief/El Capitan, second morning out from Chicago, and a generous half-hour away from tying up under the sheds at LAUPT.  The view looks due north; the grade crossing under the locomotives is Del Mar Blvd., at the south end of the platform (which is on the train's far side).  The depot is obscured behind the head-end cars and the Hi-Levels.
 
The consist appears to be very typical for that train at that time, though the power was usually A-B-B-B-A, not A-B-B-B-A-A as here. (Thanks, Henry!   ) Behind the locomotives, we have:
 
Baggage (Storage Mail?)
RPO
Baggage
Dormitory/"Transition Car"
Hi-Level Chair Car
Hi-Level Chair Car
Hi-Level Lounge Car
Hi-Level Dining Car
Hi-Level Chair Car
Hi-Level Chair Car
Sleeping Car (10-6?)
Sleeping Car (4-2-4?)
Pleasure Dome Lounge Car
Dining Car
Sleeping Car (11 DB?)
Sleeping Car (10-6?)
 
I am surmising that this is a wintertime shot, for four reasons:
 
(1)  The Super Chief and El Capitan are running combined; in 1966, they still ran as separate sections during the Summer travel season.
 
(2)  The air is actually clear enough that you can see the San Gabriel Mountains in the distance; in the summertime, the "smog" often made that impossible.
 
(3)  The "sun angle" suggests midday, not 8:00am; meaning that No. 17 here may be running several hours late.  The usual reasons for this were Springtime flooding or winter "snow delays."
 
(4)  Except for the nose of F7 #38C here, the train looks unusually "grungy" (by Santa Fe standards) - - probably due to running through snow across the high desert or the mountains of Arizona.  For some reason, winter running seemed to cause a lot more dirt to cling to the stainless steel than normal desert dust in the summertime.
 
Another excellent, nostalgic photo.
 
Regards,
 
 
Norm
 
P.S.  I have since learned that the photo was taken on Saturday, April 23, 1966.  There was apparently some significant weather in the nation's midsection (major flooding in northeast Texas, for instance); and No. 17 here may have been rolling west through this big spring weathermaker as it moved east.  Across Arizona and New Mexico, even in April significant snowfall at the higher elevations would have been likely.


« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2012, 1:51pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
Norm_Anderson
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Posts: 1726
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #267 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:56pm »
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on Mar 23rd, 2012, 10:40am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Norm -
 
How is it I have vivid memories, ca. 1966 - 67, of pacing an inbound (to Richmond) SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF, a couple times and West  
of Stockton, and pulled by the ALCO Power? Compare, try to find this in present websites, to account for the assignments. (Wish I had  
photos in support!)
 
........................Vern.......................
 

 
 
Vern, I think the reason your memories are so vivid is that they are accurate.  Living in suburban LA, I didn't get to see the San Francisco Chief that often - - but I made fairly regular pilgrimages to Barstow, and often saw either #1 or #2 there.  I don't recall ever seeing this train when there weren't PAs on the point.  Other Santa Fe varnish where I would classify PA power as "typical" were the Grand Canyon, the San Diegan, and the Fast Mail.
 
PAs on the San Francisco Chief?  There's nothing wrong with your memory, my friend.
 
 
Regards,
 
norm


« Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:57pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #268 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:58pm »
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Norm:
 
Gonna start calling you "MR. SANTA FE"!!
 
Man, let it NEVER be said that you are not a walking encyclopedia of information, stats, and trivia regarding SF passenger operations!
 
You KNOW your game, my friend!
 
Again, appreciate your time, effort, and input!
 
"SM"


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Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #269 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 12:02am »
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on Mar 23rd, 2012, 12:46pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Vern.....
 
Well, from a "Go Greenie" enviormentalist's standpoint, any ALCO product was clearly the work of ol' Beezlebub himself!<G>
 
Nuthin's perfect.....
 
"SM"

 
Remember that it was ALCO products that earned the title of "Honorary Steam Locomotive . . ."
 
And I can still hear that distinctive idle . . . sort of like the mechanic had dropped his tool kit down through the stack . . .
 
 
Norm


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #270 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 12:12am »
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on Mar 24th, 2012, 12:02am, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Remember that it was ALCO products that earned the title of "Honorary Steam Locomotive . . ."
 
And I can still hear that distinctive idle . . . sort of like the mechanic had dropped his tool kit down through the stack . . .
 
 
Norm

 
Norm......
 
You said it!
 
ALCOs, by nature, were ANYTHING but SMOOTH-sounding!
 
I well recall the old RS-3's hauling CNJ and E-L commuter trains (out of Jersey City and Hoboken, respectively), and, IMHO, they sounded as though they were battling heavy bouts of asthma.....AND.....were perpetually angry, to boot!
 
Hey, they had PERSONALITY!
 
Sure miss the old days......
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2012, 12:18am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
Norm_Anderson
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Posts: 1726
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #271 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 12:44am »
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on Mar 23rd, 2012, 3:39pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
"SOLITARY SPLENDOR" (no date/location on this photo)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf0084gea.jpg

 
 
And, the hits just keep on comin' . . .
 
Ever wonder what happened to all those slant-nosed E1s, once the F-units and ALCos started showing up?  In the late '40s, at least a few of them went to the Happy Hunting Grounds of Southern California, and spent a few years on the relatively easy grades of the "Surf Line" ferrying San Diegans back and forth through the orange groves and along the beaches.  But then, in 1953, they were returned to EMD and given an "extreme makeover."  E1A No. 6 (delivered for the inaugural of the El Capitan in 1938 ) emerged as "E8m" No. 84.  She and her sisters were mostly assigned then, I believe, to lines in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas.
 
Santa Fe didn't buy any new E-8s . . . the ones you see are the old E1 fleet, "modernized" to keep up with the times.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2012, 11:57pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
Henry
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Posts: 6109
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #272 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 1:19am »
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on Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:24pm, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The consist appears to be very typical for that train at that time, though the power was usually A-B-B-B-A, not A-B-B-B-B-A as here.

 
Just a minor nitpick, in the http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf38Cdsa.jpg photo it is an A-B-B-B-A-A lashup, not A-B-B-B-B-A. While I have seen a number of photos of warbonnet A-B-B-B-B-A lashups, which always look awesome, it seems that A-B-B-B-A-A lashups were at least as common if not more so over the years.  
 
9,000 HP of Tool Time Tim Taylor grunting diesel power
 
Henry


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #273 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 1:25am »
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Hey, Norm:
 
Right back at ya, my friend!
 
Funny you mentioned the "slant nosed" E-1's; I have, in my ever-expanding collection, a VERY large tin battery operated SF diesel, CLEARLY a "slant", dating to the early/mid-60's.
 
For a toy, the details are pretty authentic, and I find it interesting that a "slant" toy was being made at so late a date!
 
Grabbed it off of eBay for $15 bucks, a few years ago!
 
Latest-date "slant" photo I've seen was in "SANTA FE RAILWAY", by Steve Glischinski; photo shows three trains about to depart from Kansas City, taken in 1965.
 
E-6 was in charge of the KANSAS CITYAN, bound for Dallas.
 
Looked danged fast even when standing still.....
 
"SM"
 


« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2012, 1:27am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #274 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 2:11am »
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Norm/All:
 
By chance, I came across the following; a nice little selection of old color SF shots at Dearborn......other goodies too, can be found here, by scrolling through the page....<G>
 
Enjoy!
 
"SM"
 
http://indianarailroads.org/board/index.php?topic=6994.0


« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2012, 2:14am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3438
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #275 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 8:51am »
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Norm - All  -  
 
Yours, Reply #267 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:56pm: May we suppose that in "Last Days" of the ALCO Power, the entire  
group then at a Barstow domicile? It would not have been an unusual move; that is, to bring in a group of "non-standard"  
power to one point. It simplifies matters for the work of the Shops people.
 
ESPEE used the strategy in assigning its F-M Trainmaster units to San Francisco.
 
.......................Vern.......................


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Norm_Anderson
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Posts: 1726
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #276 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 2:02pm »
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on Mar 24th, 2012, 8:51am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Norm - All  -  
 
Yours, Reply #267 on: Mar 23rd, 2012, 11:56pm: May we suppose that in "Last Days" of the ALCO Power, the entire  
group then at a Barstow domicile? It would not have been an unusual move; that is, to bring in a group of "non-standard"  
power to one point. It simplifies matters for the work of the Shops people.
 
ESPEE used the strategy in assigning its F-M Trainmaster units to San Francisco.
 
.......................Vern.......................

 
 
I have no written confirmation of this, Vern, but your thoughts seem very reasonable and logical to me.  I believe that Barstow was probably "Diesel HQ" for most operations west of Albuquerque.  The ALCOs for the San Diegan were likely berthed at Redondo Junction (a couple miles south of LAUPT), but they probably went over the mountains to Barstow if they needed major attention.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3438
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #277 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 2:10pm »
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Incidental Note, vaguely related to all the intense action at Chicago, on South End of the Loop.  
ROCK ISLAND called at La Salle Street Station...
 
Example, and Thanks to E. Bowen:  
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/goldstate194812.html
 
............................Vern..............................


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Norm_Anderson
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Posts: 1726
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #278 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 2:11pm »
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on Mar 24th, 2012, 1:19am, Henry wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Just a minor nitpick, in the http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf38Cdsa.jpg photo it is an A-B-B-B-A-A lashup, not A-B-B-B-B-A. While I have seen a number of photos of warbonnet A-B-B-B-B-A lashups, which always look awesome, it seems that A-B-B-B-A-A lashups were at least as common if not more so over the years.  
 
9,000 HP of Tool Time Tim Taylor grunting diesel power
 
Henry

 
Thanks, Henry, for your eagle eyes.  I even expanded that photo in my browser first, and still managed to overlook that extra A-unit back there.  I've gone back now and corrected my entry (with credit where credit is due).
 
Tim Taylor, turned loose in a Diesel shop . . . now, THAT's funny ! ! !
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #279 on: Mar 24th, 2012, 10:57pm »
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on Mar 23rd, 2012, 1:12pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The "tonnage" version of the famed Warbonnet scheme was as impressive as that used on the passenger power (surely, streamlined car bodies also helped)......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf226abw.jpg

 
 
Hmm - good shot. 226 was an F-7 set (226L-A-B-C)  delivered in December 1949. But that trailing cab unit looks to be an FT - look at the four port holes...


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