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"Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
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   Author  Topic: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"  (Read 2321 times)
photoman475
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Posts: 870
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #220 on: Mar 21st, 2012, 11:00pm »
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Oh yes, Fairbanks Morse power!
 
The ATSF had three of these units, which were really H12-44 switchers with longer frames and high short hoods for the steam generators.
 
Amazingly enough one of these was saved by the ATSF and ended up in California after the collection of saved diesels was broken up.  The preserved unit is supposed to be at the Illinois Railway Museum now, but it's not listed on their website in their equipment roster (I just checked it).  If any one can confirm if the unit is there or still in California, please post it.


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Les_Shepherd
Historian
Posts: 425
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #221 on: Mar 21st, 2012, 11:04pm »
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Norm,
 
I agree that the maroon is a little darker than it should be. The locomotive was not long out of shops.  
 
When dieselisation took hold here in the 1950's several systems adopted/modified existing colour schemes in use in US. New South Wales adopted the Santa Fe catswhiskers and contiued to use it through until the mid 1980's.
 
Victoria adopted a royal blue and gold and I cannot remember which railroad it came from.
 
In NSW the design was used on cab and hood units alike. I think the Alco's probably look better with it than the EMD's.  The loco in the photo was one of 6 obtained by NSW in 1955. The rear unit is of Victorian origin and was built in 1957. The middle unit dates from 1952 and was built for Commonwealth Railways. All are base F7 units customised for local conditions. This included 3 axle trucks, firstly to lower the axle load and subsequently for extra traction.
 
The photo is of an enthusiast special with non-airconditioned heritage carriages.
 
There are youtube videos of 4204 at work over the last couple of years.
 
I appreciate your observations of the track. This is the track standard throughout Sydney in the areas controlled by Railcorp. It carries intensive passenger services as well as heavy freight.


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Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #222 on: Mar 21st, 2012, 11:12pm »
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on Mar 21st, 2012, 10:06am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Even "Ol' Dobbin" rode in style on the SANTA FE......<G>
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-b1995.jpg

 
 
SM, I remember seeing these "Horse Express" cars parked on a siding at Santa Anita when I was a kid.  We lived about two miles from the Santa Anita Race Track (near enough that we could actually hear the roar of the crowd from our backyard), and this is how they would transport the racehorses across the country.  I believe they even had "groomsmen's quarters" aboard the cars, and you are right-- these animals were treated like the valuable commodity they were.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #223 on: Mar 21st, 2012, 11:24pm »
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on Mar 21st, 2012, 11:00pm, photoman475 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Oh yes, Fairbanks Morse power!
 
The ATSF had three of these units, which were really H12-44 switchers with longer frames and high short hoods for the steam generators.
 
Amazingly enough one of these was saved by the ATSF and ended up in California after the collection of saved diesels was broken up.  The preserved unit is supposed to be at the Illinois Railway Museum now, but it's not listed on their website in their equipment roster (I just checked it).  If any one can confirm if the unit is there or still in California, please post it.

 
Interesting information!
 
The Jersey Central had both "Baby" and "Big" FM's; the "Baby" FM's were used in freight/passenger switching as well as in light passenger (and freight) trains.
 
The "Big Boys" were primarily suburban engines (CNJ's were geared the highest out of any FM built), but could also be found on long freights, especially on weekends, when the heavy commuter loads were absent until the Monday-morning rush..
 
Sadly, none of rthe CNJ's FM's survive today......
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2012, 11:31pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #224 on: Mar 21st, 2012, 11:29pm »
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on Mar 21st, 2012, 11:12pm, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 
SM, I remember seeing these "Horse Express" cars parked on a siding at Santa Anita when I was a kid.  We lived about two miles from the Santa Anita Race Track (near enough that we could actually hear the roar of the crowd from our backyard), and this is how they would transport the racehorses across the country.  I believe they even had "groomsmen's quarters" aboard the cars, and you are right-- these animals were treated like the valuable commodity they were.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm

 
Hey, Norm:
 
You lucky old dog!
 
Must have been great to see such now-historic equipment at work!
 
I knows the PRR was still using "horse express" cars into the 1960's; I recall an article on them in RMC a number of years ago.
 
I'm sure at one time such equipment transported the thoroughbreds to and from Monmouth Park in Oceanport (NJ), which had, many years ago, four stub tracks, used by the lengthy CNJ and PRR specials, via the NY&LB.
 
There might have been a siding nearer the stables themselves, way back in the old days.....
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2012, 11:33pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #225 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:10am »
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FM #542 doing some passenger switching at Chicago, 1964.
 
LOVE those jazzy stripes!<G>
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf0542jpa.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #226 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:15am »
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All:
 
This classic 1965 pic (taken at Chicago) EASILY could have made one OUTSTANDING SF "publicity shot"!!
 
"SANTA FE.....ALL THE WAY!", indeed!!
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf0541jpa.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2012, 11:04am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #227 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:20am »
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Teh black and silver zebra scheme was jazzy, all right. And i'll bet as much of a PITA for the railroad as it is for a modeler. i did ONE and swore "Never again". And after a while, I decided it diodn't look as good as it ought to, so i stripped it and re-pained in my notional Arkansas, Texas & Santa Fe silver and blue (over all silver, dark blue cigar band stripe all the way around, big silver "Santa Fe" on the hood and RDC nose heralds on the ends - I think it looks pretty elegant, and it is my railroad so no comments, please).
 
Noticehow clean the Santa Fe kept those Dearborn-strationed FMs? Everything needed to be first class and look like it. Tha was the Santa Fe for you.


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #228 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:34am »
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on Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:20am, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The black and silver zebra scheme was jazzy, all right. And I'll bet as much of a PITA for the railroad as it is for a modeler. I did ONE and swore "Never again". And after a while, I decided it didn't look as good as it ought to, so I stripped it and re-painted in my notional Arkansas, Texas & Santa Fe silver and blue (over all silver, dark blue cigar band stripe all the way around, big silver "Santa Fe" on the hood and RDC nose heralds on the ends) - I think it looks pretty elegant, and it is my railroad so no comments, please).
 
Notice how clean the Santa Fe kept those Dearborn-stationed FMs? Everything needed to be first class and look like it. That was the Santa Fe for you.

 
Clyde:
 
That FM model of yours sounds pretty sharp......hope you'll share a pic of it here, one day!
 
SF's clean FM switchers at Dearborn....hey, ain't surprising, my friend!
 
As you so correctly stated, the road KNEW it had a "first class" image to live up to, and they made dang sure the public KNEW it!
 
Light years ago.....
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:35am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #229 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 2:52am »
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Passenger train modelers, this one's for you!<G>
 
This early AMTRAK-era SAN DIEGAN operated with an interesting consist:
 
Two SF "F" units
 
Baggage (SF)
 
Lounge (SF)
 
Chair car (SF)
 
Two chair cars (SP)
 
Sleeper (NP)
 
http://coastdaylight.com/starla.html


« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2012, 2:53am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1726
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #230 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 8:49am »
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Sleepers on a San Diegan . . .
 
I was 19 years old in the summer of '71, and one night I took a city bus from my home in the suburbs, into downtown Los Angeles so I could catch the "midnight local" Greyhound down to San Diego, just so I could ride back north to LA aboard this Sleeper service.  I was so sleep-deprived I hardly remember any of it, but at least I got to say I rode a Pullman on the Surf Line . . .  Santa Fe had offered through Sleepers to San Diego on the Chief once, but that was a bit before my time.
 
If you take the photo and enlarge it to 400%, you can just make out the trainman standing in the NP Sleeper's rear door.  He held a communication air hose in his hand and scanned the tracks for obstructions, prepared to signal the engineer to stop if needed.  It was about a one-mile backing move to Mission Tower, and then they'd be off southbound, to arrive in San Diego about three hours later.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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Norm_Anderson
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Posts: 1726
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #231 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 9:02am »
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on Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:20am, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Noticehow clean the Santa Fe kept those Dearborn-strationed FMs? Everything needed to be first class and look like it. Tha was the Santa Fe for you.

 
Clyde, I'm thinking that perhaps that's what I miss the most about "how things used to be."  Everything had to be first class and look like it.  The story is told how, in the early '50s, every time the Super Chief, or the all-Pullman Chief, or the El Capitan reached the end of its run, unless the train was late and there literally wasn't time, the passenger car trucks and underbody received a fresh coat of aluminum paint, so as not to appear the slightest bit "dingy."  After. Every. Trip.  
 
We've all grown rather cynical these days, but I think there was more going on here than cynical marketing of a "corporate brand."  I think there was a bit of a culture that People Are Worth It.  The atmosphere has changed in the past 60 years, and in some ways we're poorer for it.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


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HwyHaulier
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Posts: 3439
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #232 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 9:36am »
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Norm -  
 
Strongly Agree! It was all far beyond an abstract "national brand" marketing exercise. There was a most positive espirit de corps  
and old fashioned pride in jobs well done. That element is hard to earn, and it can't be bought!
 
.........................Vern....................


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Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #233 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 11:14am »
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Twilight time on the SF.....Joliet, 1970.....
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alcomike/6794065910/


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #234 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 11:27am »
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All:
 
Two good sites dedicated to SF's "unsung heroes", the "BIG JACKS"......
 
http://archive.trainpix.com/ATSF/EMDORIG/FP45/INDEX.HTM
 
http://trainweb.org/jfuhrtrain/FP45data.htm


« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:24pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #235 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 11:34am »
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Kansas City, 1966.
 
This is another of those excellent photos that clearly depicts why the American passenger train was dealt such a fatal blow, when most of the mail and express was pulled off the trains, late in the 60's.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf0087dsa.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:06pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #236 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:03pm »
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The "New Kid On The BlocK', Fort Worth, 1948.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf70s.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:05pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3439
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #237 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:05pm »
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on Mar 21st, 2012, 6:52pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...Though I do not want to get "too much off track" regarding the SF, while we're briefly discussing the MONON, I thought the following might be of interest.....
 
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track4/thoroughbred195103.html    

SM - All -  
 
Ref.: The MONON Distraction. In the exhibit, link above, note MONON #5 & #6 carried an Observation Dining-Parlor Car.  
It supports the Car shown in the long ago photo at Dearborn Station. (So, no way it a Coach. The Coach riders, however,  
would be welcome for Dining needs.)
 
........................Vern....................


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #238 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:35pm »
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on Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:05pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

SM - All -  
 
Ref.: The MONON Distraction. In the exhibit, link above, note MONON #5 & #6 carried an Observation Dining-Parlor Car.  
It supports the Car shown in the long ago photo at Dearborn Station. (So, no way it a Coach. The Coach riders, however,  
would be welcome for Dining needs.)
 
........................Vern....................

 
Vern....
 
Recall, that, like yourself, I was leaning towards a parlor/buffet/lounge-type of vehicle (as I noted earlier, the DL&W also rostered similiar cars, that were still on the rails during the early E-L era).
 
Again, this only further exemplifies the vast variety of passenger car types that made up so many "Fallen Flag" fleets, through the 60's.....
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:36pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #239 on: Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:40pm »
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"THE LATEST MODEL", looking mighty fine indeed at Dearborn, 1947.
 
Most impressive, handsome machine, without a doubt.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf51n.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:41pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
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