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"Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
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   Author  Topic: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"  (Read 2292 times)
SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #140 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 5:34pm »
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Here's a interesting SF "action" scene taken at Chicago in 1965, one that I had not previously encountered in past searches.....one of those classic "Gee! What a great model this would make!" pics!
 
 
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf00202jpa.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #141 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 5:38pm »
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See also (undated photo at Dearborn; note nose of '55 Chevy at left!).....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-mc216jpa.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 5:39pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
photoman475
Historian
Posts: 870
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #142 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 6:03pm »
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Gents:
 
The only time I was ever at Dearborn was to see the Flying Scottsman.  Somewhere I have those old Instamatic photos showing an ATSF RS1 doing some switching, and I think there might be one photo of an FP45.  
 
Class publicity act?  I'd suggest that the ATSF was the best in the passenger train business!  They learned how to promote a name, an image-remember the Chico ads in magazines like National Geographic in the 1960s?  By knowing what they wanted to accomplish-and let's face it, having Hollywood to help out certainly didn't hurt-there were able to maintain that image right through to Amtrak.  Having standards and then actually adhering to them, makes a big difference.
 
Today's railroads could certainly learn from the ATSF back then.  
 
I would suggest that Norfolk Southern is beginning to try-bringing back a type of steam program and the new Heritage paint schemes are certainly steps in the right direction.  I'm not going to argue the good points or bad points of what they are trying to accomplish-I'm just glad they are trying to do something about creating a positive image for their railroad in this day of the bean counters.
 
Vern, I'm sure you are far better prepared to weigh in on Mr. Claytor's days running the Southern and it's refusal to join Amtrak right away.  I suspect from what I've read that he also had standards that he expected to be followed!
 
Alan


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ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #143 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 8:52pm »
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Went in to Dearborn in April of '66. Spent very little time in it - essentially just long enough to go from the arrival track to the cab rank, where I traded my transfer coupon (and I think it may have been for a Parmalee Tradsfer cab) for a ride to Union Station. Put my carry baggage in a locker and went out to the Museum of Science and Industry, which I wanted to visit during the time I had to kill before I left that evening on a Pennsy train.
 
My recollection is Union was a much more elegant station than Dearborn, wich seemed old, well-worn and very businesslike.


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #144 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:03pm »
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Friends:
 
Though a lifelong Jersey resident, Dearborn has always had a special fascination for me, as it was where the trains of the E-L (PHOEBE SNOW and LAKE CITIES) out of Hoboken Terminal, where I spent a good chunk of my growing-up years, terminated their runs.
 
I well recall the indicator boards up for these trains at Hoboken, and, even at this early age (thanks to all the rail magazines I devoured!) I knew that Dearborn was the western terminal for E-L varnish, and also, the eastern terminal of the SANTA FE.
 
It was exciting to think that the same trains I was seeing loading under the old Bush sheds would end their runs in the same station where the SANTA FE's magnificent Warbonnet engines lurked!
 
The ancient trainsheds and platforms, with their utilitarian steel and corrugated metal construction, seemed to me more at home on the shores of the Hudson River than in downtown Chicago.
 
In fact, the station area itself reminded me quite a bit (from the photos I saw) of the E-L terminal at Hoboken, and the old CNJ depot at Jersey City, sans a waterfront location.
 
The platforms and sheds also, for me, are somewhat reminscent of the ERIE's old Pavonia Avenue terminat at Jersey City.
 
All that remains today of working-class Dearborn today is the restored headhouse, all other traces of railroad usage long gone.....
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:58pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #145 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:12pm »
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An interesting page on Deaborn Station; though, as mentioned earlier, the 1885 headhouse still stands today, far too much was sacrificed as redundant and obsolete.....
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn_Station


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #146 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:18pm »
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See also......
 
http://www.southloophistory.org/buildings/dearbornstation.htm


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #147 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:24pm »
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A timeless 1950's SANTA FE portrait at Dearborn, guaranteed to twang the bittersweet chords of nostalgia.....
 
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth28689/m1/1/


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:25pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #148 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:38pm »
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"HOLY DEARBORN, BATMAN!"
 
SANTA FE (and MONON) buffs will NOT want to miss this OUTSTANDING historical photo page on Dearborn Station!!
 
Enjoy!!
 
http://www.monon.monon.org/bygone/chicago-dearborn.html


« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2012, 2:14am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #149 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:49pm »
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Vern:
 
This one's for you, pal!<G>
 
"SM"
 
http://www.monon.monon.org/chicago/Chicago-Dearborn02.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:50pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #150 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 10:54pm »
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Hey, Norm:
 
For obvious reasons, I'm dedicating this one for you, my friend!
 
"SM"
 
http://www.monon.monon.org/chicago2/09-29SuperChief01.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #151 on: Mar 19th, 2012, 1:50am »
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NO WONDER they're called "The Good Old Days"!
 
Regardless of where we were located at the time, I think we all took too much for granted.
 
Note E-L head-end cars (wearing ex-ERIE and DL&W paint), in from Hoboken, on the far right.......
 
http://www.monon.monon.org/chicago2/SantaFe-Dearborn.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2012, 1:54am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3434
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #152 on: Mar 19th, 2012, 10:16am »
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on Mar 18th, 2012, 5:38pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
See also (undated photo at Dearborn; note nose of '55 Chevy at left!).....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-mc216jpa.jpg

SM -  
 
This in the class of "equipment junkie" interest? One may wonder if the units are variations of STRICK "FLEXI-VAN" designs?  
Can't recall A T S F involvement with the concept. For fact, MILW ROAD active with "FLEXI-VAN" for through, transcon U S  
Mail runs (and presumably full loads between CGO and the West, all on its own line).
 
These "boxes", beyond presumed 8' x 8' x 20' dims., are unusual in that, note: End door ("swings", not "rollups"), Side door  
(usually for curbside, storefront stops; note door does not swing), and, Framing Sill, with slots for "lift truck" (Tow Motor) handling.  
Also, the sheathing (siding) product. Can't recall if STRICK used this material. It noted in period equipment from some Western  
builders, and others.
 
So that: Your writer uncertain whether we see STRICK product, or that of somewhat related equipment (ex.: as used by CFWY)  
also in service.
 
.......................Vern..................  
 


« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2012, 10:18am by HwyHaulier » Logged

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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #153 on: Mar 19th, 2012, 10:17am »
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Another timeless SANTA FE moment at Dearborn; no data given for this view, but the autos seen in the background would date this one to the late 50's/early 60's.
 
No matter, truly a classic moment in American railroading, forever frozen in history.....
 
http://www.monon.monon.org/chicago/Santa-Fe-leavingDearborn.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #154 on: Mar 19th, 2012, 10:26am »
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on Mar 19th, 2012, 10:16am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

SM -  
 
This in the class of "equipment junkie" interest? One may wonder if the units are variations of STRICK "FLEXI-VAN designs?  
Can't recall A T S F involvement with the concept. For fact, MILW ROAD active with "FLEXI-VAN" for through, transcon U S  
Mail runs (and presumably full loads between CGO and the West, all on its own line).
 
These "boxes", beyond presumed 8' x 8' x 20' dims., are unusual in that, note: End door ("swings", not "rollups"), Side door  
(usually for curbside, storefront stops; note door does not swing), and, Framing Sill, with slots for "lift truck" (Tow Motor) handling.  
Also, the sheathing (siding) product. Can't recall if STRICK used this material. It noted in period equipment from some Western  
builders, and others.
 
So that: Your writer uncertain whether we see STRICK product, or that of somewhat related equipment (ex.: as used by CFWY)  
also in service.
 
.......................Vern..................  
 

 
Vern........
 
In all honesty, I drew a total blank on this one; as I had noted in my original post, this was the first I'd encountered any sort of photo of this type of equipment.
 
Certainly isn't your typical TOFC load!<G>
 
Variation on the FLEXI-VAN design?
 
Could be, but this writer would not even dare to hazard a guess!
 
I HAVE seen 1960's photos of certain E-L through trains which carried REA containers on flats; in "ERIE LACKAWANNA IN COLOR: VOLUME 4 THE EARLY YEARS" by Larry De Young, there is a 1965 photo of the PACIFIC EXPRESS at Meadville with the same sort of equipment seen in the SF pic I found, but carrying all REA containers......
 
Aaaahhh, sweet mysteries of life!
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2012, 10:29am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3434
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #155 on: Mar 19th, 2012, 10:41am »
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on Mar 19th, 2012, 10:17am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Another timeless SANTA FE moment at Dearborn; no data given for this view, but the autos seen in the background would date this one to the late 50's/early 60's.
 
No matter, truly a classic moment in American railroading, forever frozen in history.....
 
http://www.monon.monon.org/chicago/Santa-Fe-leavingDearborn.jpg  

SM -  
 
Which conveys a point in my various messages. Note the prominent display of U S MAIL and R E A equipment, "down by the Stations"!
Pull it off the Passenger schedules, and how could they ever make net money?
 
In the just above. I am not favoring STRICK "FLEXI-VAN" on it. Your E - L notes imply builders other than STRICK.
 
..........................Vern.......................


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photoman475
Historian
Posts: 870
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #156 on: Mar 19th, 2012, 11:06am »
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Silver Meteor:
 
Thanks for the photos-I've learned more about Dearborn Station operations from this thread than I'd ever had before!
 
Now, as to the ATSF Flexi-Van type containers-could they have been for first class mail moving from Chicago to the West Coast?  The downtown Chicago Post Office wasn't really all that far from Dearborn, so trucking the containers over would not have been a big deal.
 
Al Pearlman's NYC was also into Flexi-Van service, too, IIRC.  From what I see here, perhaps the ATSF was dabbling in it to cover their bases?  
 
Alan


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #157 on: Mar 19th, 2012, 11:07am »
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Vern.....
 
On a somewhat related note, check out this 1963 photo of an E-L through train at Hammond, Indiana; note first car in consist.....
 
"SM"
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/el824bjh.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #158 on: Mar 19th, 2012, 11:10am »
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on Mar 19th, 2012, 11:06am, photoman475 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Silver Meteor:
 
Thanks for the photos-I've learned more about Dearborn Station operations from this thread than I'd ever had before!
 
Now, as to the ATSF Flexi-Van type containers-could they have been for first class mail moving from Chicago to the West Coast?  The downtown Chicago Post Office wasn't really all that far from Dearborn, so trucking the containers over would not have been a big deal.
 
Al Pearlman's NYC was also into Flexi-Van service, too, IIRC.  From what I see here, perhaps the ATSF was dabbling in it to cover their bases?  
 
Alan

 
 
Alan:
 
Anytime!
 
You are more than welcome!
 
It truly boggles my mind to see just how much historical stuff is out there on the 'net, just waiting to be discovered by the ever-searching rail historian!
 
That Dearborn Station site, without a doubt, certainly was an outstanding and memorable trip back into time!
 
Too bad it's all gone!
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2012, 11:11am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
photoman475
Historian
Posts: 870
Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #159 on: Mar 19th, 2012, 11:17am »
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Silver Meteor:
 
I just remembered-the ATSF also had U28CGs in the red warbonnet scheme.  I don't know if any ever saw service on the Super Chief.
 
The ATSF also rostered a set of FM Eries, which may have been been used on the Super Chief a time or two.  They really were orphans on the Santa Fe-the only set they ever acquired.
 
Here's a couple leaving Dearborn:
 
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=133672
 
Alan


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