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"Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
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   Author  Topic: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"  (Read 2311 times)
ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #100 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 5:15pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 2:10pm, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)

SM -  
 
Possibly a "publicity glossy" from A T S F, P. R. folks? Note the "new power" could do but so much, and there were only  
seven cars behind!
 
Les -  
 
Great to see your post! I have a detailed reply in my head, but feel much too lazy to do it, just right now. I have wondered,  
too, about "Grand Tour" buyers. We do have ninety (90) Cruise Line sailings each year, here at Baltimore...
 
....................Vern...................
 
 
 
 

 
The 1936 train was expected to be a small number of passengers with a lot of non-revenue (lounge, diner, etc) space and was a  test object for the new power (real road diesels were - not around other than some of the early Zephys at that point, this was real experimenting) and the very fast 39-3/4  hr schedule.


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2012, 5:25pm by ClydeDET » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #101 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 5:20pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 5:09pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
1 and 1A (Amos and Andy) with the first, heavyweight consist, really a test of the locomotives, and schedule. And boy did they get some testing,,,

 
 
Clyde:
 
I am sure you were right on the mark when you stated that these units were "tested"......given some of the rugged terrain that these trains had to travel, I think "testing" is indeed an understatement!
 
Sure wish I had been around to see all the fun!
 
"SM"
 


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ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #102 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 5:22pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 4:04pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Cleburne, Texas, 1972.
 
AMTRAK is now in charge of running the show, and yet, for those watching from trackside, the SANTA FE is still alive and well.........
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-train-pwp.jpg

 
Damn, never did see a Big Dome on the Texas Chief. That is really taking stuff on strange routes by AMTRAK.
 
During the time i was in at Baylor (71-73) power was usually four or five Santa Fe Warbonnet Fs.  They were showing their age in the form of a lot of smoke on acceleration and needing more units to keep the schedule. Started seeing SDP-40Fs  in '73, and i;m pretty sure the 1975 trip from Temple to Chicago was a pair of those, but the cars (and most of the employees) were ex-Santa Fe. Except for Silver Penthouse. Having a dome through the Arbuckles was pretty neat. And we picked up a Santa Fe office car (not sure which one) at Kansas City and carried it to Chicago. Union Station then, instead of Dearborn as it was in '66.


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ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #103 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 5:24pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 5:20pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 
Clyde:
 
I am sure you were right on the mark when you stated that these units were "tested"......given some of the rugged terrain that these trains had to travel, I think "testing" is indeed an understatement!
 
Sure wish I had been around to see all the fun!
 
"SM"
 

 
Find a copy of McCall's EARLY DIESEL DAZE ON THE SANTA FE and find out just how testing some of the testing was.... Author's father was one of the first group of "maintainers" and it was apparently quite an experience.


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #104 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 5:26pm »
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Hey, Clyde:
 
Thanks!
 
Will try to nab a copy!
 
Sure sounds like some INTERESTING reading!
 
"SM"


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #105 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 5:27pm »
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Just for the fun of it.......
 
http://www.squidoo.com/santa_fe_rr


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ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #106 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 5:36pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 5:26pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hey, Clyde:
 
Thanks!
 
Will try to nab a copy!
 
Sure sounds like some INTERESTING reading!
 
"SM"

 
It is. Might be easier to find if you have the right bibliographic informatuion:
 
Santa Fe's Early Diesel Daze 1935-1953 by John B. McCall (Kachina Press, Dallas, Texas, 1980). Doesn't seem to have an ISBN. Long OP, I expect, at least from Kachina. I see Golden Spike has a copy described as New Condition for $59.95. Inflation considered, that may be  no more than i gave for my copy in the long ago days. I recall buying it at Bobbye Hall's Hobby Shop in the early 80s, so I'd have paid full list, whatever that was. Maybe $25 or $30?
 
Oh - don't trust memory. Amos and Andy were 1A &1B, not 1 & 1A...


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #107 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 10:59pm »
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Clyde:
 
Thought you might find the following of interest.....
 
"SM"
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMC_1800_hp_B-B


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #108 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 11:10pm »
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See also.....
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_sf1A.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #109 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 11:14pm »
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Nothing short of amazing of what a "makeover" can do.......
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_sf1.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #110 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 11:23pm »
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Once again, I hear Norm's words echoing in my head:
 
"Everything's better with Warbonnet on it"!
 
This glorious, flamboyant scheme perhaps was the FINEST of any that once adorned passenger power!
 
Man, what a looker!
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_sf347.jpg


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ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #111 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 11:37pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 10:59pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde:
 
Thought you might find the following of interest.....
 
"SM"
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMC_1800_hp_B-B

 
I have seen that information before. The CB&Q twins (Silver King/Silver Queen and Silver Knight/Silver PRincess) had the rwin Winton V-12 900 HP prime movers in the cab units and a single 1200 HP V-16 in the trailing -units.
 
Those Winton 201s were essentially the same engnes supplied to he Navy for the fleet subs that helped win the war in the Pacific a few years later. The F-M OP engines that appeared in the F-M Trainamsters et al also did sterling service in subs during the war, as the alternative to Wintons. The H-O-Rs didnt work ouk, becoming known as "lady of the evenings" to the submariners who encountered them (most were replaced with Wintons or F-Ms; Sam Dealy's famous Harder got F-Ms to repalce the H-O-Rs she was built with).


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ClydeDET
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #112 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 11:50pm »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 11:10pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
See also.....
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_sf1A.jpg

 
Yep, that be 1A-1B righty. The dust jacket of the McCall book has a great painting of the pair in full glory of Cobalt Blue, Saratoga Blue (NOT "Sarasota blue" as the wiki article says), Golden Olive, Scarlet and Tuscan red.
 
I sure would like to have a pair of the HO models Hallmark brought in at one time. Couldn't afford them then, and probably not now. If I could find a pair...  
 
Well, the 'net is your friend, sorta. BRASS TRAINS has a pair of the Hallmarks for sale. $1950 for the two.  Yes, out of budget unless I hit the Tejas Lottery tonight ($9.3 million, single pay, yeah I could buy those)...


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #113 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 12:05am »
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Must make at least brief mention of those handsome rogues known as PA's......IMHO, these magnificent machines were the "playboys" of the SANTA FE fleet.......<G>
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_sf52.jpg
 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/sf57.jpg
 


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 12:11am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
Norm_Anderson
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #114 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 1:34am »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 2:22pm, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Handsome 4-8-4 hauling streamlined "CHIEF" equipment in this undated photo.
 
Steamer looks mighty find indeed with such a crack consist!
 
(second car is a heavyweight RPO)
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-s3777abw.jpg

 
 
SM, this is a really interesting photo, and it speaks volumes about Santa Fe's "culture of excellence."
 
At the time this photo was taken (during WW2 - - note the headlight shroud on #3777), the Super Chief consisted of only two trainsets, each making a weekly round-trip from Chicago to Los Angeles.  The Chief was still the daily all-Pullman, extra-fare flagship.  While the Super was pulled behind those flashy red-and-silver E1 Diesels, the Chief used "good old, reliable Steam" to cross the continent.  The lightweight equipment for the Chief was delivered in 1938, but the 3776-class of 4-8-4s wasn't built until the early 1940s.  Despite her slightly gritty appearance, the locomotive is actually newer than the stramlined consist she's hauling!
 
Thenks for sharing a fascinating photo.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 1:37am by Norm_Anderson » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #115 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 2:22am »
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Norm.....
 
You are MOST welcome, my friend!
 
Yep, that is indeed a fascinating old view, yet again reminding us of the tremendous diversity once so commonplace in Santa Fe passenger operations!
 
In Steve Glischinski's "SANTA FE RAILWAY", there is another great photo showing steam hauling streamlined cars; this one shows 4-8-4 #3758 hauling the streamlined consist of what MIGHT be the "SAN DIEGAN" (according to the caption), taken in 1946.
 
NEVER a dull moment on the SANTA FE, that's for sure!
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 2:24am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #116 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 2:35am »
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The last new passenger power on the Santa Fe were the hulking U28CG's of 1966.
 
Only the SF owned the type, 10 in all.
 
Even utilitarian machines like these looked quite handsome in the classic "Warbonnet" scheme......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf359ags.jpg


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #117 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 2:42am »
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Certainly not leading the "SUPER CHIEF", U28CG #357 heads a short consist at Houston, Texas, on what was obviously a dismal-looking day in 1968.
 
A utilitarian "working" machine, to be sure, this engine was still most impressive sporting the timeless 'Warbonnet" paint.....
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf0357jpd.jpg


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 2:44am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
Norm_Anderson
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #118 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 9:14am »
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on Mar 18th, 2012, 2:35am, SILVER METEOR 158-58 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The last new passenger power on the Santa Fe were the hulking U28CG's of 1966.
 
Only the SF owned the type, 10 in all.
 
Even utilitarian machines like these looked quite handsome in the classic "Warbonnet" scheme......
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf359ags.jpg

 
 
SM, those U28CGs sure exuded brawn, and were often seen on the point of the Texas Chief, scorching the ballast between Chicago and Houston.  But if I may, there were two more passenger Diesel deliveries yet to come - -
 
In 1967, Santa Fe took delivery of a half-dozen U30CGs, and numbered them 400 to 405.  A minimalist attempt at streamlining was made, with full-width carbodies, a slightly rounded nose, and distinctive "washboard" sides.  They were often seen (by me) in Southern California, hauling the San Diegan or the Grand Canyon.  As a smart-aleck kid, I referred to these units as "Uglies."
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf0402gea.jpg
 
 
But the honors for the last new passenger power goes to a group of nine FP45s, numbered 100 - 108, delivered in 1967 expressly for the Super Chief.  Here's one of those beautiful units, captured by Jim Parker at Barstow, CA in June, 1969.  No. 104 here, along with her sister just ahead of her, probably arrived before dawn on the point of #17, the Super Chief/El Capitan; aging F-units would have taken over for the final 141 miles into Los Angeles.  Late tonight, eastbound #18 will arrive, drop the F's, and #104 will be off on her next round-trip to Chicago.  Just think-- this is how she looked before her trip through the wash rack . . .
 
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf0104jpb.jpg
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 11:25pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
HwyHaulier
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Re: "Who Killed The SUPER CHIEF?"
 
« Reply #119 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 9:24am »
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on Mar 17th, 2012, 11:50pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...Yep, that be 1A-1B righty. The dust jacket of the McCall book has a great painting of the pair in full glory of Cobalt Blue, Saratoga Blue (NOT "Sarasota blue"  
as the wiki article says), Golden Olive, Scarlet and Tuscan red....

Clyde - SM - All -  
 
Not at all certain if there is - at least - one color photo up on the 'Net. Yet, I have seen renditions of the units in the superb "delivery colors".  
Very striking, and at same time, quite tasteful...
 
SIGH! Much of all was right with the world in 1936! And, few had any idea at all what would occur shortly thereafter...
 
.................................Vern.........................


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