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"Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
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   Author  Topic: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish  (Read 1187 times)
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #60 on: Dec 21st, 2011, 10:13pm »
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In an earlier post I'd mentioned PRR's "MOUNTAIN VIEW": here is the car, beautifully restored, seen operating in New Jersey, back in 1995......
 
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1934454


« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2011, 10:15pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #61 on: Dec 21st, 2011, 10:20pm »
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Tim......
 
Dug this page on the "ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL" out of my files.....
 
"SM"
 
http://www.wilkinsontrains.com/traindisp.cfm?train_id=37
 
*Note that, in 1927, the train ran in two sections for the first time.......


« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2011, 10:27pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #62 on: Dec 21st, 2011, 10:43pm »
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Schedules, equipment, etc. for the "ORANGE BLOSSOM SCHEDULE".......
 
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track2/orangeblossom194112.html


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ehbowen
Railfan
Posts: 242
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #63 on: Dec 21st, 2011, 10:50pm »
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on Dec 21st, 2011, 8:55pm, ranger101 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
SM and all,
     I notice that there was one reference to the Orange Blossom Special in the thread, unless I missed it somewhere.  I have kind of a dumb question so bear with me.  I know that the PRR handled it from NY to DC.  SAL took from Richmond, VA to Jacksonville, FLA.  I read that two sections also went to Tampa and St. Petersburg.  Ok, so what is a "section."  Sorry Im not up on the passenger train lingo.  What did a "section" consist of?
Tim

 
SM and George have given you the lowdown on multiple sections and how they operate, but there is another meaning which is applicable to passenger trains. In many cases trains operated with cars bound for differing destinations...the Silver Meteor, say, would leave New York with some cars which were bound for Miami and the east coast of Florida and other cars which were destined for Tampa, St. Petersburg, and Sarasota/Venice. From New York through to northern Florida these would all operate together as a single, very long train. When the train arrived in Wildwood, Florida, the various cars would be separated and reassembled as two separate trains; one bound for Miami and the other for St. Petersburg. The two trains would be referred to as the "Miami section" and the "Tampa/St. Petersburg section" although from Wildwood south they would operate as independent trains bound for separate destinations.
 
This manner of operation was common in the streamliner era; for other examples see the MoPac's South Texas Eagle which split to serve Houston and San Antonio or many of the Pennsy's east-west trains which split in Harrisburg, PA to serve Philadelphia/New York and Baltimore/Washington.
 
Going back to the Silver Meteor: Please note that there was no requirement that the train operate as a single entity north of the division point. If passenger loadings were sufficient that a single train would be unwieldy (station platforms are only so long) it would not be at all unusual to group all of the Miami cars together into one train and all of the Tampa/St. Pete cars into another and thus have the two "sections" operate in "section following" mode in the manner George describes.


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--------Eric H. Bowen

Now 200 classic timetables online, transcribed into machine-readable and searchable format:

Check it out here: Streamliner Schedules!

Historic timetables of the great trains of the past!
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #64 on: Dec 21st, 2011, 11:28pm »
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Eric.....
 
Appreciate you sharing some timeless info with us all!
 
NEVER anything short of fascinating!
 
"SM"


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #65 on: Dec 21st, 2011, 11:31pm »
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Tim.....
 
In case you missed these earlier, here are some good links for the "SILVER METEOR".......
 
"SM"
 
*Interesting to note that the "METEOR" made better time many years ago, that it does today!
 
Gee whiz.......I wonder WHY?
 
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track5/silvermeteor194106.html
 
http://webpages.charter.net/suzuya/Seaboard1.html
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Meteor


« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2011, 11:36pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #66 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 1:08am »
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All:
 
Here are some items of interest from Larry Goolsby's "ACL PASSENGER SERVICE: THE POSTWAR YEARS"......
 
"......ACL generally operated a seperate train when the special movement was at least eight or nine cars. Smaller movements were usually attatched to smaller trains, although doing so increased the motive power requirements for the train in question......"
 
"......instructions were routinely issued to see that special movements recieved prompt and courteous handling; ACL seemed very concerned about impressing special patrons and securing their repeat business. It was clearly easier to provide "prompt" service to the seperate trains since they normally operated to their destinations nonstop, except for servicing and crew changes......"
 
"......on the other hand, smaller car movements were sometimes attatched to all-stop locals, making their schedules considerably slower. In some instances, a special train would be operated in one direction, but have its cars distributed among regular trains for the return trip......"
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2011, 6:21pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #67 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 1:14am »
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Also.....
 
"......ACL had long operated additional sections of its passenger trains when necessary to handle overflow patronage. Winter-season business to Florida occasioned most such trains, and multiple sections of the "FLORIDA SPECIAL", for example, were typical into the 1960's during peak travel periods........"
 
".......for example, during the week before Christmas in 1962, 1963, and 1964, ACL even made an extra "CHAMPION" section 'official' by listing the trains in its public timetables as the 'Holiday Specials'......."
 
".......as late as the 1960's, ACL still put on an extensive special train service for such events as the UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA's Gator football games. Trains ran many weekends during the fall to Gainsville or Jacksonville, with one train even offering Pullman service......"
 
"........special trains were most often run in the summer and fall seasons, when ACL had more equipment in reserve. Patrons could even buy their football tickets through the ALC......"
 
"SM"


« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2011, 1:28am by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #68 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 2:26pm »
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All.....
 
A bit off-topic, but, I thought this should be included, as we had been discussing "sections".
 
Here is some very interesting reading about the days of "multiple sections"; the "20TH CENTURY LIMITED" ran in as many as seven sections, on a few occasions.
 
The railroads of yesteryear certainly seemed to have little problem in securing "extra" equipment for all of those extra sections........
 
"SM"
 
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/180335/1975953.aspx


« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2011, 2:40pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
ClydeDET
Historian
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Posts: 4785
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #69 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 6:07pm »
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on Dec 21st, 2011, 8:55pm, ranger101 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
SM and all,
     I notice that there was one reference to the Orange Blossom Special in the thread, unless I missed it somewhere.  I have kind of a dumb question so bear with me.  I know that the PRR handled it from NY to DC.  SAL took from Richmond, VA to Jacksonville, FLA.  I read that two sections also went to Tampa and St. Petersburg.  Ok, so what is a "section."  Sorry Im not up on the passenger train lingo.  What did a "section" consist of?
Tim

 
 
In the "old days", as others have mentioned, trains often ran in sections in heavy traffic periods. I'd have to get the book down to be sure of the exact numbers, but seems like I have seen tht in some holiday seasons the NYC ran the Advance 20th Century Limited in as many as 3 or 4 sections, and the the Century proper ran as many as 6 or 7. That is a LOT of 12-16 car trans, all of deluxe accommodations.


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ClydeDET
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Posts: 4785
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #70 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 6:21pm »
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on Dec 21st, 2011, 10:50pm, ehbowen wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
SM and George have given you the lowdown on multiple sections and how they operate, but there is another meaning which is applicable to passenger trains. In many cases trains operated with cars bound for differing destinations...the Silver Meteor, say, would leave New York with some cars which were bound for Miami and the east coast of Florida and other cars which were destined for Tampa, St. Petersburg, and Sarasota/Venice. From New York through to northern Florida these would all operate together as a single, very long train. When the train arrived in Wildwood, Florida, the various cars would be separated and reassembled as two separate trains; one bound for Miami and the other for St. Petersburg. The two trains would be referred to as the "Miami section" and the "Tampa/St. Petersburg section" although from Wildwood south they would operate as independent trains bound for separate destinations.
 
This manner of operation was common in the streamliner era; for other examples see the MoPac's South Texas Eagle which split to serve Houston and San Antonio or many of the Pennsy's east-west trains which split in Harrisburg, PA to serve Philadelphia/New York and Baltimore/Washington.
 
Going back to the Silver Meteor: Please note that there was no requirement that the train operate as a single entity north of the division point. If passenger loadings were sufficient that a single train would be unwieldy (station platforms are only so long) it would not be at all unusual to group all of the Miami cars together into one train and all of the Tampa/St. Pete cars into another and thus have the two "sections" operate in "section following" mode in the manner George describes.

 
One of the neatest runs that split into two sections at some point was the Rock Island's Rocky Mountain Rocket that had Denver and Colorado Springs sections, with a special, custom AB6-unit (all of two of them...) that had a flat-faced cab to haul the Colorado Springs section after the split at Limon, Colorado. Made the power set look all neat with no cab units running "elephamt" style - Stagner's ROCK ISLAND IN COLOR: 1948-1964 has a picture of one leaving Chicago E7A;AB6;E7B.


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #71 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 6:34pm »
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During the 1920's, B&O's "CAPITOL LIMITED" often ran in multiple sections (to and from Jersey City, via the CNJ), but never as frequently as certain PRR and NYC trains......

« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2011, 6:36pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #72 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 6:46pm »
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Another train that once operated in multiple sections was SF's "CALIFORNIA LIMITED"......
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Limited


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #73 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 6:52pm »
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When the "CENTURY" would go out in as many as seven sections, that first section would be designated the "ADVANCE 20th CENTURY LIMITED".....
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Century_Limited


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #74 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 7:02pm »
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Recalling the famed "ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL"......
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/locosteve/galleries/72157624520956314/


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SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #75 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 7:09pm »
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"THE CHAMPION"......
 
http://www.american-rails.com/the-champion.html


« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2011, 7:09pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #76 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 7:17pm »
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Interesting reading on FEC's "HAVANA SPECIAL"......
 
http://www.wilkinsontrains.com/traindisp.cfm?train_id=356


« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2011, 7:18pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #77 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 7:23pm »
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"OUT TO SEA BY TRAIN" (excellent page, w/ rare vintage photos and maps).....
 
http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r053.html


« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2011, 7:24pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #78 on: Dec 22nd, 2011, 8:50pm »
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Schedules, equipment, etc. for the "HAVANA SPECIAL" (1933).....
 
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track2/havanaspecial193302.html


« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2011, 8:52pm by NH_FL9_2017 » Logged
SILVER METEOR 158-58
Former Member
Re: "Passengers To The Palms": Southland Varnish
 
« Reply #79 on: Dec 23rd, 2011, 12:07am »
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More on the "HAVANA SPECIAL"......
 
http://www.american-rails.com/havana-special.html


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