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California High Speed Railroad
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   Author  Topic: California High Speed Railroad  (Read 326 times)
George_Harris
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Posts: 3803
California High Speed Railroad
 
« on: Nov 5th, 2008, 1:19pm »
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Looks like the bond issue is passing.  
 
http://vote.sos.ca.gov/props/index.html
Election Night Results - CA Secretary of State
96.4% ( 24,510 of 25,423 ) precincts partially or fully reporting as of Nov. 5, 2008, at 9:49 a.m. pacific time  Visit our County Reporting Status page to determine if a county has submitted a final report or returns.  
 
State Ballot Measures
1A - Safe, Reliable High-Speed Train Bond Act
  YES:  4,959,358   52.3%
  NO:   4,535,334   47.7%
 
Now the real fun begins.


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Alco83

Posts: 3828
Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #1 on: Nov 5th, 2008, 2:15pm »
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Here's the story:
 
High Speed Rail bond passes in California
 
November 05, 2008
 
Trains Newswire:  SACRAMENTO, Calif. - California Proposition 1A, the high-speed rail bond that would authorize the state to sell $9.95 billion in bonds to partially fund a $45 billion bullet train clone between Southern California and the San Francisco Bay area, won by a small margin Tuesday. With 95 percent of the vote counted early Wednesday, the measure was up 52 percent to 48 percent.
 
Numbers being bandied about by proponents include train travel at more than 220 mph, which would allow transit time between the two major state population centers in as little as 2½ hours.
 
Backers included the California High-Speed Rail Authority, various chambers of commerce, the Sierra Club of California, and the state Democratic Party. Major financial supporters included labor organizations and engineering firms. Opponents included the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, the California Chamber of Commerce, and various state legislators.
 
Those favoring the high speed train line argued that it would ease traffic congestion and cut down on air pollution, while opponents felt that the cost was prohibitive for a project they felt would not be able to achieve proposed speeds and ridership. Adding to the controversy, the state is in a financial bind with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger forced to eliminate thousands of state jobs and cut the pay scale of thousands of others to try and balance the budget.


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George_Harris
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Posts: 3803
Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #2 on: Feb 5th, 2011, 9:07pm »
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Here we are over 2 years later, much has happened and little has happened.  
 
At least standards for the work are well under way, and the alignment details are getting nailed down.  
 
The first piece is supposed to be under construction starting late next year between Fresno and Bakersfield.
 
For those interested in more, there are some blogs on the subject, and some that are posting as much as they can dig up through the Freedom of Information act.
 
For some of the technical standards, usually in version zero, go to:
http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2010/01/prescriptive-framework.html


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ClydeDET
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #3 on: Feb 6th, 2011, 11:30pm »
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Are they using existing ROW or new for the Fresno to Bakersfield run? We were out that way in October '09 and man there is some flat land down the Valley, fer shure. Ought to be able to do some fancy running.

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George_Harris
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #4 on: Feb 6th, 2011, 11:45pm »
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Most of the Fresno to Bakersfiled will be right of way to right of way with th BNSF.

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ClydeDET
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #5 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 7:44pm »
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Makes reasonable sense. Apparently there is a bunch of RoW south of Sacramento that is rail-banked, out of service, but not (mostly) pulled up, next to the American River. or at least that was the impression i got on our '06 trip out that way.

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George_Harris
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #6 on: Nov 14th, 2011, 1:52am »
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We now have a section 1A which is supposed to be the first piece to go to contract.  Section 1 being Fresno to Bakersfield.  1A being the piece that is essentially through Fresno.  Location is at-grade now, not elevated, and parallel to and on the west side of the UP (the ex-Southern Pacific). The environmental impact statement showint the alignments is out.  
 
Now the fun really begins.  All those against the project will now use the EIS against the project.  


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George_Harris
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #7 on: Apr 13th, 2013, 9:49pm »
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Forgot I had started this thread on the subject, so I will put the message here:
 
I decided to put it here rather than start a new thread on California HSR.  
  
 Since this is a press release I am assuming that it is OK to reproduce it in full:  
 
Quote:
April 12, 2013  
 Robert Wilcox  
 916-403-2675 (w)  
 916-203-2960 (c)  
 rwilcox@hsr.ca.gov  
    
    
 California High-Speed Rail Authority Announces Bid Results on  
 Central Valley Construction Project  
    
 SACRAMENTO, Calif. – The California High-Speed Rail Authority (Authority) has identified Tutor Perini/Zachry/Parsons, a Joint Venture, as the best scoring team for the design-build contract to begin construction of the Madera to Fresno segment, the first section of the high-speed rail system.  
    
 The Authority had estimated the cost for the design-build contract to be between $1.2 billion and $1.8 billion. The Authority determined that Tutor Perini/Zachry/Parsons, a California-based Joint Venture, who bid $985,142,530, was the “apparent best value.” The ranking and score of all five proposals are attached.  
    
“Today is a significant milestone,” said Jeff Morales, CEO of the Authority. “We received proposals from five world class teams and are moving forward to deliver a world class program. It’s time to get to work in the Central Valley and create thousands of jobs.”  
  
In the competitive bidding process, five teams submitted proposals to the Authority for the first design-build contract. Design-build combines project design and construction in a single contract. The proposals were evaluated and ranked based on 30 percent for technical merit and 70 percent for cost. Factors such as an understanding of the project, schedule capability, project approach and safety were part of the technical scoring.  
    
 In November 2011, the Authority issued a Request for Qualification for potential design-build teams interested in the contract. Five teams met the threshold and began competing for the contract. In January 2013, the five teams submitted their proposals, which were objectively reviewed by an evaluation panel comprised of California state personnel.  
    
 The design-build contract will include the Authority’s adopted 30 percent goal for small business participation in the work. The Authority is committed to small businesses playing a major role in delivering the high-speed rail program.  
    
 The Authority will continue to work through the ongoing procurement process and a contract will be presented to the Authority’s Board of Directors in the coming weeks.  
    
 For more information on the procurement process for the design-build contract please visit http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/construction.aspx  
    
 #####  
    
 About California High-Speed Rail Authority  
 The California High-Speed Rail Authority (Authority) is responsible for planning, designing, building and operation of the first high-speed rail system in the nation. By 2029, the system will run from San Francisco to the Los Angeles basin in under three hours at speeds capable of over 200 miles per hour. The system will eventually extend to Sacramento and San Diego, totaling 800 miles with up to 24 stations. In addition, the Authority is working with regional partners to implement a statewide rail modernization plan that will invest billions of dollars in local and regional rail lines to meet the state’s 21st century transportation needs. To learn more visit the Authority’s website at cahighspeedrail.ca.gov and join us on facebook.com/CaliforniaHighSpeedRail and follow us at twitter.com/cahsra/.  
    
  California High-Speed Rail Authority  
 RFP No. HSR 11-16  
 Apparent Best Value

 
 The formats of the summary of the quotations were lost in the copy.  Here is the information in a coherent format.  
  
 Proposer: Tutor Perini/Zachry/Parsons, A Joint Venture  
 Total Proposed Price:   $985,142,530.00  
 Price Proposal Score (max 70%):  70.00%  
 Technical Proposal Score (max 30%):  20.55%  
 Total Proposal Score:  90.55%  
  
 Proposer: Dragados/Samsung/Pulice, A joint Venture  
 Total Proposed Price:   $1,085,111,111.00
 Price Proposal Score (max 70%):  63.55%  
 Technical Proposal Score (max 30%):  26.13%  
 Total Proposal Score:  89.68%  
  
 Proposer: California Backbone Builders  
 Total Proposed Price:   $1,365,770,098.00    
 Price Proposal Score (max 70%):  50.49%  
 Technical Proposal Score (max 30%):  27.71%  
 Total Proposal Score:  78.20%  
  
 Proposer: California High-Speed Rail Partners  
 Total Proposed Price:  $1,263,309,632.23
 Price Proposal Score (max 70%):  54.59%  
 Technical Proposal Score (max 30%):  20.71%  
 Total Proposal Score:  75.29%  
  
 Proposer: California High-Speed Ventures  
 Total Proposed Price:  $1,537,049,000.00  
 Price Proposal Score (max 70%):  44.87%  
 Technical Proposal Score (max 30%):  21.41%  
 Total Proposal Score:  66.27%  
    
Quote:
The above matrix identifies the Total Proposal Scores for determining the Apparent Best Value Proposer. The California High-Speed Rail Authority (Authority) has determined that Tutor Perini/Zachry/Parsons, a Joint Venture, is the Apparent Best Value Proposer. The Authority will proceed with the procurement with the Apparent Best Value Proposer. If the Authority is unable to achieve final contract award with the Apparent Best Value Proposer, it may proceed with the next most highly ranked Proposer.   Due to the ongoing procurement, no further information will be disclosed at this time.

    
 The uproar is already beginning.  
 


« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2013, 1:56am by George_Harris » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #8 on: Apr 15th, 2013, 5:45pm »
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No doubt the uproar is (or soon will be) near-deafening.

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George_Harris
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Posts: 3803
Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #9 on: Apr 23rd, 2013, 1:21pm »
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For a simple "where is it?" on one page, go to
http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/construction.aspx
and about half way down on the page under  
 
RFP Addendum No. 4  
Book 2: Contract Requirements
 
click on
AD.4 - B.2 - Pt C.3 - Scope of Work - Attachment 2 - Limits of Work Map
 
and you get it on one page.  29 miles end to end.
 
The Attachment 2a is for the highway work that got hung on this.  2.7 miles of 6 lane freeway.
 


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HSSRAIL
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #10 on: Oct 31st, 2013, 11:49am »
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I have some reservations about how California went about this. It seems to me that the High Speed rail proposal involves the inland route between San Francisco to Los Angeles. That would be basically the San Joaquin route. In looking at that route it really looks from afar like a railroad that goes from nowhere to nowhere. It seems to me that strengthening the route structure of the San Joaquin route should have a high priority. I am of the opinion that the first part of the high speed rail link that should have been done was the portion between Oakland and San Francisco, and/or Bakersfield to Los Angeles. Both segments would benefit existing Amtrak services and be usable by them while the rest of the route was under construction. I am aware of the political opposition in Bakersfield however; there is considerable political opposition on the segment they are proposing to build.

« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2013, 11:51am by HSSRAIL » Logged
George_Harris
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #11 on: Oct 31st, 2013, 1:41pm »
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Wherever it is planned there will be "significant opposition".  That is simply the nature of the beast.  Nowhere to nowhere is their mantra today.  It costs too much, it takes too long, and no one will ever ride it is their fallback position.  I have heard this one for every rail system I have ever worked on and it has proven false every time.  
 
This "significant opposition" scream reminds me somewhat of what we experienced when watching Nixon's second inaugural parade.  If you looked at it on TV but not too closely it appeared that the parade route was lined with protestors.  If you were standing there on the street watching it and saw what was really happening was this:   There were 20 or so loud screamers on each side of the street walking along opposite his car so they could be seen by the cameras.  In reality there were very few people standing and watching that were doing anything negative.
 
The currently planned route goes where the people are.  The "follow I-5 crowd" are using airplane thinking dreaming up a line that misses all the population centers in the valley.  If there was not a lot of traffic between these mid points and between the major end points and these center points the state would not be in the process of 6 laning Hwy 99.  
 
The first part of the plan is from a few miles north of Fresno to Bakersfield.  This mainly  because it is easiest an necessary regardless of whether the next part is going north to San Francisco or south to Los Angeles.  I don't think it is giving away any secrets to say this, or the next paragraph.
 
Bakersfield to Palmdale to Los Angeles will probably be the second part built primarily because "everyone" recognizes the need to fill the gap, but look at the terrain.  Major mountains and major fault crossings.  There is no comparison here with any of the European lines people love to point to.   Tehatchapi and Palmdale are at higher elevations than any of the 19th century built tunnels in the Alps, and far higher in elevation than any of Euroschemes, whether built, planned or pipe dreams.  Long tunnels to avoid having to climb to these high elevations?  Crossing major active faults underground is a REALLY BAD IDEA.  Plus, it would give you a longer tunnel than exists anywhere else.  
 
(Crossing major faults underground is not a bad idea solely because it will move, not if it will move, but when will it move.  It is also a bad idea because you will be tunneling through bad rock which is what kills people during construction.  Tunneling is still a dangerous activity, and tunneling through bad rock extremely so.)
 
The more you look at crossing these mountains, the smarter those 19th century engineers that developed the route Bakersfield to Tehatchapi and Palmdale to Los Angeles look.


« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2013, 6:27pm by George_Harris » Logged
HSSRAIL
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #12 on: Oct 31st, 2013, 2:43pm »
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Correction noted Oakland changed to Fresno.
 
The Bakersfield to Los Angeles segment is in the high speed rail plan I said this should be built first because, right, (there will always be opposition) so build the more useful portion first.  
 
The earthquake concern applies to running high speed trains in California period. Tunneling technology has come a long way. While I agree that tunneling under fault lines is a problem the shortest distance between two points is a strait line. A tunnel boring machine can go under these mountains and bore the tunnels. Some kind of movable insert will be needed to earthquake proof the tunnels which will be more expensive but since this is in the plan anyway CDOT knew that. Tunnels of 30 miles in length have already been built overseas and electric operation makes them more than feasible.  
The Bealville Tunnel on the former Southern Pacific traverses the White Wolf Fault and was damaged in the Bakersfield Earthquake. The current Tehachapi Pass thus has tunnels thru active fault lines so I am less than convinced the new tunnels should not be built.  
 
My nowhere to nowhere comment is tongue in cheek what I mean is that the San Joaquin route does not connect the two biggest cities in California, San Francisco and LA fixing that omission would improve the viability of that  rail corridor.


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George_Harris
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #13 on: Oct 31st, 2013, 6:38pm »
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on Oct 31st, 2013, 2:43pm, HSSRAIL wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Correction noted Oakland changed to Fresno.

My previous post modified accordingly.  
 
All I can say about major tunnels through faulted ground is that, technological advances or not, it is still a major undertaking and not for the fainthearted.  Someone who is going to be part of such a thing needs to carefully read all the exclusions in their life insurance policies.  
 
There will probably be at some time a report out analyzing the issues involved.  Meanwhile, it can be worthwhile to read up on recent exercises in long tunnel construction in the Alps and in Japan.  I am not talking about some of these planned tunnels, some of which approach hallucinaton status, but ones that are either under construction or fairly recently completed, such that they do incorporate recent developments in the field.  While doing it, pay attention to the ground conditions through which they were built and how they compare with that prevailing in the Bakersfield to Burbank area.  There is a fairly good amount of information available on ground conditions there, but there are a lot of gaps and unknowns as well.


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George_Harris
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Re: California High Speed Railroad
 
« Reply #14 on: Aug 25th, 2015, 8:07pm »
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Construction is well under way in the Fresno area, in general starting with such things as the San Joaquin River bridge.  Now there is the beginning of clearing of the right of way through the middle of town where the line is adjacent to the UP (ex SP) line.  The newspaper article makes it sound like these are buildings of significance, but for the most part they were single story dumps.
 
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/high-speed-rail/article32225841.html


« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2015, 8:33pm by George_Harris » Logged
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