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Topic: Grand Canyon Railroad (Read 177 times) |
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ClydeDET
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Posts: 3152
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We went to the Canyon last week, riding the Grand Canyon Railroad on one of their three-night, two day packages. Up-graded to a dome each way. Not inexpensive, but a good time was had and it snowed Tuesday, on the way back to Williams - snow falling outside while you are in a dome is - neat.
Rooms we had at the GCR's hotel in Williams Sunday and Tuesday were very nice, and the staff competent and helpful. Ticketing was seamless - we just went to the ticket office in the old Santa Fe Station, provided ID and confirmed payment and they handed over the packet.
Tour of the South Rim after arrival Monday was excellent, and the "on our own" time Tuesday was pleasant, with the free NPS-operated shuttles making it easy to get around.
Trip north was in GCR Kokopelli, south in Grand View. Grand View was built as dome-coach CB&Q Silver Stirrup (CB&Q 4722), for the Cal Zephyr. Still has original seats, very comfortable, nice car.
Kokopelli was built as GN 1326, for Empire Builder as a dome-coach, and isn't (quite) as nice (or as close to original inside) as Grand View. Still a very nice car and a great ride up to the Canyon.
I can recommend taking the trip if circumstances permit - doesn't have to be a multi-day stay, but the premium for a dome seat is worth it, whatever package you choose.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2009, 3:09pm by ClydeDET » |
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Warren_Thompson
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Posts: 401
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ClydeDET:
Several years ago in May my wife and I rode the Grand Canyon. Since it was one of those "once-in-a lifetime adventures," we opted for the deluxe service, i.e., the open-platform observation car. At the same time, I suspect riding in a dome in the snow would be equally good.
[It's sad that the Grand Canyon's new owners have given up on steam ....]
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| « Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2009, 4:19pm by Warren_Thompson » |
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ClydeDET
Historian
Posts: 3152
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Thought about the open platform, but decided dome would be better. Was planning to up-grade further to the open-platform car on the return trip - but it was cold and snowing...
They have their reasons for going diesel, including claims of reduced pollution (steam oil, drips of lube from the running gear, and such) and reduced fuel and water consumption, which they deem good reasons. And reduced general running expenses (which they don't mention, but we know steam does require more daily attention than a modern diesel). Apparently the FAs are now reserve power, with a single ex-AMTRAK F40 and a generator car instead of a pair of Alcos and a generator car. Once again, doubtless less fuel and other maintenance expense.
Apparently running on bio-diesel. And it is still a pity they aren't running in steam. A dome behind steam would have been great, wouldn't it? But it wsa still a great trip and they run things right. Good service, both the hotels and the trains.
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Norm_Anderson
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Posts: 1296
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on Nov 9th, 2009, 4:18pm, ClydeDET wrote: (Click here for original message)
They have their reasons for going diesel, including claims of reduced pollution (steam oil, drips of lube from the running gear, and such)...
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Wonder if the National Park Service had a hand in this decision? Might seem to conflict with their "green" image?
Behind steam or not, it was a trip to envy, Clyde.
Regards,
Norm
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ClydeDET
Historian
Posts: 3152
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on Nov 11th, 2009, 1:57pm, Norm_Anderson wrote: (Click here for original message)
Wonder if the National Park Service had a hand in this decision? Might seem to conflict with their "green" image?
Behind steam or not, it was a trip to envy, Clyde.
Regards,
Norm
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I really don't know if NPS had a hand in the matter or not. But Xanterra (the current owner and concessionaire at the Canyon and several other places) seems to be really into the "green" thing from its literature.
All the new buses the concessionaire is using and the NPS operated shuttles are running on compressed natural gas. Which is of course very green. One molecule of CO2 and two of H2O for every molecule of fuel (methane=CH4) burned instead of around ten molecules of CO2 and six of water for diesel (assuming the diesel is straight cetane, which of course - it ain't).
And yeah, it is a great trip, no matter what they used for power. The package we took, with the up-grade to dome seats (I REALLY advise that for a railfan, or for that matter - anybody) and the three nights lodging, etc. wasn't cheap, but by golly, i think it was worth it.
Meals at the Canyon ain't cheap, either, but I will say we liked what we got at both Bright Angel Lodge (supper) and El Tovar. El Tovar is elegant - waiters in black tie, linen table cloths, heavy silver-plate cutlery, etc.. And the food we got was good (we had a really good French Onion Soup for lunch - just right on a cold day) if somewhat pricey. The cafeteria at Maswik Lodge (where we stayed the night at the Canyon) ain't near as good - and not that much cheaper than Bright Angel. Rooms were fine, though.
If you are going to the Canyon, there is a good deal to be said for using the train to get up there.
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Les_Shepherd
Historian
Posts: 296
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Envy is a trait I don't possess, but your trip is one I very much want to do. I have wondered about the accommodations at Williams and now I know. Any visit would require stopovers between Sunset Limiteds. I am planning a visit mid next year, available funds permiting. I might just trick it up the schedule to make this visit.
Sorry to learn that steam has gone. This was a real drawcard.
A couple of Great Nieces made the trip this time last year. When I asked them about it they had only one word "boring".
The mind boggles.
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ClydeDET
Historian
Posts: 3152
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on Nov 21st, 2009, 5:56am, Les_Shepherd wrote: (Click here for original message)Envy is a trait I don't possess, but your trip is one I very much want to do. I have wondered about the accommodations at Williams and now I know. Any visit would require stopovers between Sunset Limiteds. I am planning a visit mid next year, available funds permiting. I might just trick it up the schedule to make this visit.
Sorry to learn that steam has gone. This was a real drawcard.
A couple of Great Nieces made the trip this time last year. When I asked them about it they had only one word "boring".
The mind boggles. |
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Sunset Limited won't work for this unless you rent a car or something to get up to Williams. The connecting AMTRAK line is the Southwest Chief, which has a stop near Williams (the AMTRAK station is not shared with the Grand Canyon Railway), which has an AMTRAK bus to pick passengers up and take them to Williams to connect with the GCR (and also from the GCR to the stop at Williams Junction - which doesn't actually have a station it appears). AMTRAK doesn't actually go through Williams any more according to the note I found on the service, though there is still BNSF service that comes through.
I can't imagine the trip up to the Canyon being "boring", though it isn't through real spectacular scenery. But we found the ride very nice and (JMO, I guess) better than driving. Better able to enjoy the trip up, look at the wildlife (we saw a couple of herds of antelope, for example) and such than from a car.
We were quite pleased with our accomodations, especially at Williams where the hotel is new, but doesn't look it, having followed the architectural conventions of the old Harvey House. We spent time in the lobby, sitting and watching the fire and talking with some of the other folks who were also going up to (or had come back from) the Canyon. It for sure isn't "motel modern", which is a good thing.
We took one of the packages the GCR offers, the one that includes a night at Williams, evening meal the day of arrival, breakfast before boarding, trip up, lunch and a bus tour of the South Rim, night at the Canyon (dinner, breakfast and lunch the next day and time on your own that day), trip back, night at Williams with dinner and breakfast. We up-graded to dome seats both ways, and the package for the two of us was between $800 and $900 - closer to $900, but since we ain't gonna do it again soon, worth it.
Weather is likely to be fairly warm if the trip is mid-year, and there will probably be more people around than was the case in the latter part of October (not to say there weren't numbers about, but nothing was crowded when we were there).
PS - the AMTRAK connection isn't very convenient in terms of timing - the east-bound Chief comes though at 0520, and the west-bound at 2233. Presuming on time, which I THINK the Chief mostly is. Still - mighty early getting up if you are on the east-bound, either getting off to go to the Canyon or on after your trip.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 21st, 2009, 10:07pm by ClydeDET » |
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Les_Shepherd
Historian
Posts: 296
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Thanks for your reminder that I really messed up with my South Western geography. I usually check my maps first but not this time. I simply rushed in. Yes, the schedules of the eastbound Chief are most unappealing. If I can manage the visit I will probably fly into somewhere like Phoenix or Albuquerque from DFW and bus/train it down to Williams.
I probably should have expected a pair of pre-teen girls not to find the train interesting, but I will remonstrate with them next time I see them.
Your reminder about mid-year heat does not dissuade me. Several years ago I encountered 900+ heat and equal humidity successively in Chicago, New York, London & Hong Kong.
This weekend in Sydney, AND my activities, makes these conditions seem insignificant. Why?
This was planned as the last weekend for the year's Heritage Steam operations over the mainlines. On saturday it was a popular "Rail & Sail" to Wollongong on the south coast. A load of passengers travel down on a large catamarran type ferry and return by train. Those who go down by train come back on the ferry. I was a member of the car crew on the train. Today, sunday, we took Santa for his annual trip north to Gosford. and I was out lineside. The weather upset all of our plans with strong HOT winds blowing from the centre of the continent pushing temperatures above 1000. Naturally there was a TOTAL FIRE BAN. In many regions the fire warning level was "Catastrophic". The advertised steam haulage could not be used. Instead, motive power was an Alco DL500B from the Heritage fleet. This was a blessing in disguise because the train presented as typical of NSW diesel hauled passenger trains of the 1960's & 70's. I cannot remember such a train operating for over 20 years.
I suppose that this proves some kind of insanity to go out lineside in this weather for a few pictures. So be it.
The car crew today had a hard time of it, particularly those in the buffet. I leave it to your imagination how Santa was faring. The situation was a bit better on saturday with a strong sea breeze taking the sting out of he heat.
So I am not fazed by any heat the Grand Canyon may present. I would be more concerned about snow.
I have long wanted to visit the Grand Canyon. The geology of the Canyon is identical with that of the Blue Mountains immediately west of Sydney. The only difference between them is that the Grand Canyon is denuded of vegetation whereas the Blue Mountains are covered in dense eucalypt forest. It is the gasses given off by the forest which give the area a blue hue.
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ClydeDET
Historian
Posts: 3152
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I wouldn't expect an Aussie to be seriously fazed by heat. Actually - the Canyon Rim isn't usually that bad - I believe the highest recorded temptature there was 101 F in July of 2003, and even in high summer, doesn't usually get to much over 90 F on the Rim. If you go down to the river, it is MUCH warmer, up to 120 F. But - not something to fail to take into account. Humidity is low, generally.
I suspect the best place to fly to for a Canyon trip is Flagstaff, which is only 30 miles from Williams. There is a connection from Flagstaff (Amtrak Station) to Williams (Grand Canyon Railroad station). There is also a Phoenix-Flagstaff service. It looks workable for one of the three day packages (the way to go if you can commit that much time).
Snow isn't that much of a problem IF you are taking the train, but since your trip will be in summer, not a concern at all.
According to the Ranger who gave a nice presentation on the geology of the Canyon, its size (not depth, but width) is in consequence of its going through essentially desert country with occasional very hard rains added to its geology. It is a heck of sight and a spectacular place to visit. I am glad we (finally) did. And that we chose the particular way to get there that we did.
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