Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Jul 20th, 2017, 3:08pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


NYC West Side High Line News
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Fallen Flags
   New York Central
(Moderator: Roger_Hensley)
   NYC West Side High Line News
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: NYC West Side High Line News  (Read 711 times)
Henry
Historian
Posts: 6097
NYC West Side High Line News
 
« on: Dec 24th, 2002, 1:14pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify


It's still got a chance of surviving.
 
There's a long way to go, but I think it's a great idea and it would be cool if it could be saved.
 
Photos of the line shortly after it was built and in use are fascinating.
 
Henry
 
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 11:36:44 -0500
From: Bernie Wagenblast
Subject: (rshsdepot) High Line - NYC
 
On West Side, Rail Plan Is Up and Walking
 
By DAVID W. DUNLA
The New York Times
 
A once-quixotic proposal to turn an abandoned rail line on the far West  
Side of Manhattan into an elevated public promenade has been formally  
embraced by the Bloomberg administration, almost exactly a year after  
the Giuliani administration moved to demolish the hulking structure.
 
Now, rather than seeking to tear down the 1.45-mile railroad viaduct,  
known as the High Line, New York City has asked the federal Surface  
Transportation Board to grant a certificate of interim trail use, which  
would preserve the route as a distinctly urban stretch in the national  
rails-to-trails network.
 
"We think the High Line, ultimately converted into a park, will enhance  
the character of the entire far West Side," Daniel L. Doctoroff, the  
deputy mayor for economic development and rebuilding, said in an  
interview on Friday.
 
"The High Line will remain up," he said, "and in conjunction with this  
we would seek to rezone portions of the areas surrounding the High Line  
in order to accommodate residential development. We think the High Line  
can be an important amenity."
 
The City Council speaker, Gifford Miller, said, "It's a huge step in the  
right direction."
 
That is not easy to envision while standing in the dark shadow of the  
viaduct, which has all the charm of an el. But it becomes clearer on the  
deck, where trees, weeds and wildflowers among rusting tracks and  
switches create a verdant swath through Hell's Kitchen, Chelsea and the  
Gansevoort Meat Market.
 
As a practical matter, the CSX Corporation, which manages the High Line,  
is still under an order from the Surface Transportation Board to pursue  
demolition, an outcome sought by Chelsea Property Owners, which objects  
to the structure as a dismal, dangerous blight that cannot be  
rehabilitated feasibly, attractively or economically - especially at a  
time of budget deficits.
 
Douglas Sarini, president of the group, which represents commercial  
owners along the High Line route, did not reply to requests for comment.
 
Earlier this year, however, the group said in one of its fliers: "Money  
doesn't grow on trees. And the last time we checked, it wasn't growing  
in the weeds of the High Line, either."
 
In fact, there is no money now to create a public space, nor even a plan  
to follow, although a private group called Friends of the High Line  
intends to sponsor a competition for ideas early next year.
 
What last week's filing does do is ally the city firmly with efforts to  
rehabilitate the 69-year old High Line, which runs about 30 feet above  
sidewalk level from Gansevoort to 34th Streets on a path that primarily  
parallels Tenth Avenue. The line, which in some places runs through or  
has spurs into buildings, linked the warehousing and industrial district  
along the Hudson River to the rest of the nation until 1980, and has  
been deteriorating since then.
 
"I understand that for property owners and many in the community that if  
you have to choose between the High Line as it currently is and no High  
Line, bringing it down makes sense," Mr. Miller, the Council speaker,  
said. "But I believe - and I think the administration has also seen -  
that when you consider the possibilities for a preserved and reused High  
Line as a public space and a signature moment in the New York landscape,  
that the positives are almost limitless."
 
Robert Hammond, co-founder of the Friends of the High Line, said the  
city's action was "at the top of my Christmas list." Two years ago, his  
well-connected but fledgling group faced considerable skepticism when it  
suggested that the High Line might one day rank with the Promenade  
Plant=E9e in Paris, an old railroad viaduct that has been turned into a  
landscaped walkway.
 
A year ago, the group was in court, along with the City Council and C.  
Virginia Fields, the Manhattan borough president, challenging the  
tentative demolition agreement reached on Dec. 20, 2001, in the last  
days of the Giuliani administration. The High Line's backers argued that  
because the agreement involved property easements along the route of the  
viaduct, it should have been subject to the city's uniform land-use  
review procedure, known as Ulurp.
 
In March, they won a ruling from Justice Diane S. Lebedeff of State  
Supreme Court in Manhattan, who wrote that the administration's  
"determination to forego Ulurp review was undertaken without `lawful  
procedure' and was an `error of law.' " The ruling is being appealed.  
What is also holding up demolition is that a final, signed agreement has  
yet to be reached. And in its filing with the Surface Transportation  
Board, the city expressed "serious doubt" that such an agreement could  
ever be attained.
 
Instead, Mr. Doctoroff said, the city now hopes to reach a new agreement  
with CSX in the next few months, permitting "interim trail use,"  
although he cautioned that this is a legal term; it does not mean that  
the viaduct would be open to strollers, skaters and bicyclists any time  
soon.
 
"A significant investment will have to be made," Mr. Doctoroff said.
 
In its filing, the city said that to establish an interim trail use, it  
would be willing to assume full responsibility for management of the  
right-of-way and any legal liability.
 
Without taking a position, Laurie Izes, a consultant to CSX, who is  
overseeing the High Line, said the company was "interested in a  
responsible and expeditious solution" and would review the filing if the  
board granted the city's request for interim trail use.
 
=================================
The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing
railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org


Logged
NathBDP
Historian
Posts: 841
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #1 on: Dec 25th, 2002, 6:22am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Don't these progressive idiots learn from history?  The High Line is our history.  It gives us a glimpse into what our history was during the time when New York City was a much more fluid place in terms of transportations--before the introduction of noisy, clobbering trucks and busses that replaced ships and trains, and trolleys respectively.  We lost Pennsylvania Station because of this type of thing; now people want to destroy the High Line... it really irks me how irreverent these people our to other's interest or history.  Some sections of it are already gone. 
 
    In response to the people who whine that the High Line adds no aesthetic interest or it lacks the prospect to be changed into a more visual masterpiece is frightening.  Why must everything conform to the current architectural thesis?  Which, by the way, is totally boring and lacks interest to such a level that would make marvels such as Grand Central or the late Pennsylvania station one-hundred percent their antipodes.  The High Line has complexity.  Its dark.  Its surreal.  It doesn't fit in.  Neither does GCT, or Hell Gate bridge.  Why?  Because they are from a time when the railroad was at the heart of American industry; and the railroad's knew what to design for public service: in terms of visual complexity and efficiency of workflow.  Now, can you imagine having an elevated line that is simply concrete with smooth steel?  Ick.  I really don't see how their argument that the High Line is 'ugly' has any relevance in this question of policy.
 
   In general, Americans as a whole have to slow down and move backwards and involve themselves in certain aspects of our history that had great interest and appeal both in their evocative nature in terms of archictecture or in showcasing how the country once ran.  I'm constatly perusing the High Line.  I just recently discovered on of the overpasses we can still spy a small, detriorating letters which once read "New York Central" in proud glory.  But just like how it's detriorating, so are these peoples irreverence not only for history, but for the legacy of the New York CEntral that left us with Grand Central.  I wouldn't be suprised in centuries that that station will fall to the tides of time because of its 'unaesthetic importance' to those who have no imagination or respect, who--at the same time calling themselves progressive--lack any prescience any deny other people the joy of experiencing such structures.
 
    


« Last Edit: Dec 25th, 2002, 6:25am by NathBDP » Logged

..all train compartments smell
vaguely of crap. It gets so you
don't mind it. That's the worst
thing that I can confess. You know
how long it took me to get there?
A long time.
tommy meehan
Historian
Posts: 402
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #2 on: Dec 26th, 2002, 3:27pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Dec 25th, 2002, 6:22am, NathBDP wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Don't these progressive idiots learn from history?  The High Line is our history.  It gives us a glimpse into what our history was during the time when New York City was a much more fluid place in terms of transportations--before the introduction of noisy, clobbering trucks and busses 

 
Hi NathBDP
 
I hate to tell you this -but the so-called "High Line" was built during the 1930s!!
 
 
 
 
Happy Holidays
Tee


Logged
NathBDP
Historian
Posts: 841
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #3 on: Dec 28th, 2002, 5:06am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Dec 26th, 2002, 3:27pm, Tee wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Hi NathBDP
 
I hate to tell you this -but the so-called "High Line" was built during the 1930s!!
 
 
 
 
Happy Holidays
Tee

 
Lots of railroad structures were.  Doesn't neccessarily mean that they are any less important.  the 30's were the greatest time for railroading IMO.  
 
Not sure if I'm reading what you said correctly, forgive me if I'm not.


Logged

..all train compartments smell
vaguely of crap. It gets so you
don't mind it. That's the worst
thing that I can confess. You know
how long it took me to get there?
A long time.
tommy meehan
Historian
Posts: 402
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #4 on: Dec 28th, 2002, 11:53pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Hi Nath
No I didn't mean the old West Side Freight Line isn't important because it was built in the 1930s.  I meant that when I looked up old articles in micro-filmed NY TIMES about the line's planning and construction I discovered it was an important part of NY City's "West Side Improvement Plan" (as separate from NY Central's plan of roughly the same name) which was aimed at speeding traffic! Traffic was already gridlocked, judging by photos, perhaps even worse than today.  Just for the record, the City wanted to get NY Central freight trains off 10th and 11th Avenues, where they had been located since the 1840s. Back then, though, the two avenues were thoroughfares in name only. Not so by 1925!
 
BTW, the tracks were placed on the viaduct that is today called the "High Line" below 34th Street and in a below grade cut (still used by Amtrak Empire Service trains) above 34th extending north to W.60th St  and the entrance to the yard of the same name. The 60th Street yard occupied a large 'at-grade' area bounded by the Hudson River on the west, West End Avenue on the east and 72d Street to the north. Above 72d Street the yard and main tracks were located under Riverside Park, which was built on a 'deck' above the tracks. North of the park the tracks ran (and still do) either in a cut or on elevated sections thereby completing the total elimination of railroad/street grade crossings along the line. This was a goal West Siders had been advocating since the 1890s if not earlier.
 
Tee


« Last Edit: Dec 30th, 2002, 11:45pm by tommy meehan » Logged
Henry
Historian
Posts: 6097
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #5 on: Dec 30th, 2002, 9:24am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Here's a cool shot of the 72nd street freight yards from page 385 of the April 1923 issue of National Geographic:
 

 
Henry
 
[Updated to use a locally cached copy of the image - H]


« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2014, 5:32pm by Henry » Logged
Roger_Hensley
Moderator
Historian
Posts: 715
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #6 on: Dec 30th, 2002, 4:35pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Beautiful. What a great utilization of space!

Logged

Roger Hensley kc9eji

Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/
tommy meehan
Historian
Posts: 402
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #7 on: Dec 30th, 2002, 6:59pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Hi Group
Right you are Roger! The amazing thing about the photo that Henry was kind enough to post -the yard hadn't changed as much as you might expect 40 years later when I first saw it.  
 
Two major differences -the absence of the elevated West Side Highway (a main feature of the West Side Improvement Plan) running along the western edge of the yard (middle of photo) and the roundhouse -it was long gone by 1964. In fact I think it was removed to make room for the highway. Other then that the yard looks pretty much as I remember it. The track layout looks the same and the carfloat piers seem to have kept the same alignment. Ironically the 'missing' third-rail, necessary for the changeover to electric operation in the 1930s, has yet to be installed in the 1923 photo and had been removed by the 60s.
 
BTW, 72d Street ends in the upper left corner of the photo, I do believe, and the last visible building in that corner of the photo was an apartment house named the Chatham. As a teenager I used to walk past it on my way to watch yard operations from the sidewalk on W.72d (which was extended west when the highway was built). How I used to wish I could talk my Mom into moving us to this "really cool building on 72d Street!" But she always said "Forget it!"
 
Tee


« Last Edit: Dec 30th, 2002, 7:19pm by tommy meehan » Logged
Bob
Historian
Posts: 755
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #8 on: Dec 30th, 2002, 8:44pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

any pics of the high line as it appears today?

Logged
Charlie_O
Historian
Posts: 5797
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #9 on: Dec 31st, 2002, 11:40am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Bob -
I know that TRAINS did a nice photo essay and story on the High Line during the past year.  Can't remember which issue...maybe March  
Maybe someone else knows.
 
Also, "Friends of the High Line" website features some current pix...
http://www.thehighline.org/
 
-Charlie


Logged

Some days, the most interesting person you meet is a river with a train running beside it.
Bob
Historian
Posts: 755
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #10 on: Dec 31st, 2002, 12:03pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

thanks  

Logged
NathBDP
Historian
Posts: 841
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #11 on: Jan 2nd, 2003, 1:22pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Fanastic find Henry.  That roundhouse looks awefully large for such a small area of operations.  I'm not suprised they tore it down so early on.

Logged

..all train compartments smell
vaguely of crap. It gets so you
don't mind it. That's the worst
thing that I can confess. You know
how long it took me to get there?
A long time.
Bob
Historian
Posts: 755
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
  highline.jpg - 31405 Bytes
« Reply #12 on: Jan 2nd, 2003, 2:32pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

High Line Action!
 
just having a little fun


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/NYCS/highline.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Bob
Historian
Posts: 755
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
  highline1.jpg - 23814 Bytes
« Reply #13 on: Jan 2nd, 2003, 2:33pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

one more

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/NYCS/highline1.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
firstbelt
Historian
Posts: 707
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #14 on: Jun 20th, 2014, 4:57pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Dec 31st, 2002, 11:40am, Charlie_O wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Bob -
I know that TRAINS did a nice photo essay and story on the High Line during the past year.  Can't remember which issue...maybe March  
Maybe someone else knows.
 
Also, "Friends of the High Line" website features some current pix...
http://www.thehighline.org/
 
-Charlie

 
Just spotted a documentary on the current usage of the High Line on PBS.
 
Great Museums: Elevated Thinking
The High Line in New York City

 
Susan Sarandon narrates the story of High Line Park in Manhattan, which was created from a defunct elevated railroad.
 
Not sure if it includes historic photos/footage.  Happens to be scheduled for tonight and wee hours of Sunday morning locally.  There may be a way of viewing it other times.
Bob


Logged
Henry
Historian
Posts: 6097
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #15 on: Jun 20th, 2014, 5:32pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Can't find it in the Buffalo area on TW cable for the next week
 
Henry


Logged
firstbelt
Historian
Posts: 707
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #16 on: Jun 25th, 2014, 5:35pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jun 20th, 2014, 5:32pm, Henry wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Can't find it in the Buffalo area on TW cable for the next week
 
Henry

 
Doesn't look like WNED aired it.  Not every station carries every program.  WXXI in Rochester has 3 TV channels, but I didn't manage to catch either showing.
 
There is only a 35 second preview of the show on PBS.org:
http://video.pbs.org/video/2365265447/
 
An 8 minute   clip of another, earlier show on the High Line:
http://video.pbs.org/video/2082624979/
 
Doesn't seem like they carried any historic rail pictures/footage.  NPR often carries podcasts of radio shows, so I was hoping PBS would archive the show somehow.
 
Bob


Logged
Charlie Ricker
Historian
Posts: 2210
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #17 on: Jun 25th, 2014, 6:45pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I was hoping WXXI was going to show this, too.
 
Maybe eventually.....if I hear anything, I'll make sure to post.
 
Charlie


Logged

~Charlie Ricker

firstbelt
Historian
Posts: 707
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #18 on: Jun 25th, 2014, 9:27pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jun 25th, 2014, 6:45pm, Charlie Ricker wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I was hoping WXXI was going to show this, too.
...

That's what I mentioned last week: they showed it Friday evening, 9 PM when I was out, and again Sunday at 4 AM.
 
Bob


Logged
Charlie Ricker
Historian
Posts: 2210
Re: NYC West Side High Line News
 
« Reply #19 on: Jun 26th, 2014, 8:41am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Ahhhh............I sure missed the boat on that one. Whoops!
 
     
 
Charlie


« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2014, 9:42am by Charlie Ricker » Logged

~Charlie Ricker

Pages: 1 2  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »