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   Post reply ( Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose )
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Topic Summary
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 11th, 2006, 9:57pm
hi folks,  
 
there's been enough interest to warrant a new topic thread for building 1 1/2 inch scale railcars.  follow along as i build mine and share the journey with you.  if you are already building your own equipment, share your techniques, thoughts, and photographs with us on this thread.
 
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Mar 12th, 2006, 6:01am
  George,
 
   I look forward to seeing more of your beautiful wood work. Like we've both said before, one of these day, the old Erie caboose will get a makeover at George's caboose shop.
 
   Take care,
   Bruce
Posted by: TAB Posted on: Mar 12th, 2006, 8:08am
Hey moose the caboose…Starting this topic was a great idea and I’m certain it will be both informative and inspirational…Tom
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 12th, 2006, 8:30pm
hi folks,
 
change is a hard thing for most of us to do.  starting a new thread for ls railcars was a little like jumping off a diving board into a pool.  you can see the water, but you're never sure if you can swim...well, here we are and the water is just fine!  thanks for the insightful shove!
 
i'll begin posting pictures of the commisary car shortly.  in the next day or so, i'm post a picture of one of the most common railcar foundations that most of us use.   a good looking and operating car starts with a great foundation.  there are as many different ways to build foundations as there are opinions, but i like the idea of not seeing the equipment i build 're-kitified' telescopically(believe me, it's happened to others in the hobby).
 
til then, thanks for the positive responses,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: rdgtrainman Posted on: Mar 12th, 2006, 9:16pm
I currently own a 1" scale Little Engines 0-4-0 tank that is currently apart for maintenance/modification.  That will be sold later in the year so I can start my 1.5" Allen Mogul in 7.25" gauge.  I will also will be attending Train Mountain's Triennial 2006 meet in Oregon.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Mar 13th, 2006, 10:15am
  George,
 
   Please post a couple of pictures of your EJ&E and Wabash units. Those are my favorites. I believe many here would enjoy seeing them.  
   BTW folks, all of the cabeese that hopefully will show up in this thread are scratch built by my friend George and they are beautiful. He is too modest to say this of his work, so I'll say it.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 9:46pm
hi bruce and listers,
 
okay, okay...i'll post some of the old pictures.  welcome to all who are finding and posting to this thread.  yes, i can be a little shy about my work, but don't be shy about yours.   please feel free to post pictures of your work so we can all first...appreciate what you've done and second...learn how to do what we're doing better.  that's what this thread is all about.
 
today was a good day in the shop.  the commisary car is beginning to take on some of it's finer details.  tomorrow should see the roof intact and ready for additional details.  i will post updated photographs of it shortly.   for now, enjoy the picture request of my buddy bruce.
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 9:51pm
hi all,
 
here's another pic to enjoy.  incidently, this photo was taken on the day that we presented howard's wabash caboose to him...was he ever speechless!  one of the few times that i can ever remember.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:04pm
and still another pic.  howard's wabash on the run!  this caboose has more miles on the track than howard does.  howard's beautiful wabash diesel has had a wiring problem for more than a year...at least from the time we presented his caboose to him!  we actually started a tradition where any visiting live steamer with a loco could pull his (howard's) caboose  for the day.  as the visiting train goes by the station, we point out the caboose to howard.  howard is convinced that we are going to wear the wheels off of it before he ever gets his engine repaired.  he finally took the engine and caboose home...i think because he didn't want the caboose to reach the million-mile-club before he had a chance to pull it himself!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:12pm
here's another picture of the wabash caboose.  i must say that the previous picture and this picture was taken by my good buddy, mikey k.  this young fellow has the knack and spark to take excellant rail photographs.  it has certainly been a treat for me to have him photograph my work.  thanks mikey, hope you will visit soon!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:32pm
during one of our fun runs last year, i delivered a new drover's caboose to a friend of mine.  like the first picture i posted, this picture is one of the group of three cabooses i built until december of last year.  i wanted a picture of the cars before they scattered to the northern winds.  for those with sharp eyes, this picture also shows my learning curve for building railcars.  the ej&e was my first attempt, then the wabash, and on to the drover's caboose.  there are four cabooses on the build tables right now.  i'll start posting pictures of them tomorrow night
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:39pm
okay, so i've been showing you all the pretty pictures.  since this thread is about sharing knowledge, here's a picture of the drover's caboose under construction...one with all the 'warts' for all to see.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:47pm
here's another of the drover's caboose...a little closer to being completed.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 11:01pm
hi rdgtrainman!
 
thanks for checking in with us.  the allen models mogul you're looking at is a great looking and good running steamer when completed.  there are a number of guys who've built it and made improvements to the basic design.  if this is your first allen models loco, don't be afraid to ask questions...there are plenty of folks out there that could save you hours of head scratching.
 
enjoy train mountain.  i've not been myself, but those who have say it is not to be believed!  on your return home, let us know what you thought, what you saw, and if you bought any 'toys' while you were there!  one day, i'll get a chance to go there and run.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Mar 12th, 2006, 9:16pm, rdgtrainman wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I currently own a 1" scale Little Engines 0-4-0 tank that is currently apart for maintenance/modification.  That will be sold later in the year so I can start my 1.5" Allen Mogul in 7.25" gauge.  I will also will be attending Train Mountain's Triennial 2006 meet in Oregon.

Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Mar 18th, 2006, 6:10am

 
   George,
 
   Man, I sure am glad you posted some of these pictures. These things are beautiful. And, it ain't braggin if you say so yourself. Not everybody can build cars that nice or at all for that matter. Nice, nice work George.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 19th, 2006, 10:14pm
i've found another picture of the wabash that i don't think has been posted.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 29th, 2006, 9:16pm
sorry for the delay folks.
 
between the largo meet and an over-zealous gardener, i've been offline for a while.
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Apr 5th, 2006, 10:09pm
Guess I'm gonna have to get some brass for those steps......
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 9th, 2006, 1:28pm
hi all,
 
i've had some marvelous conversations with a few of you, thanks for the voice and off-line contacts.   within the last few months 'we' have endured 'the meet' season.  sounds like i'm complaining...i'm not!  i and pockets had a great time!  we were able to visit with many live steamers from out of state.  if you haven't traveled beyond your home track, you're really missing the comraderie that is the live steam hobby.  
 
okay, what have i been doing lately?  between computer and shop equipment breakdowns (thanks pockets, for making the piece i needed!), alot of small things have been done to the commissary car.  since i work (leaving in a few minutes) tonight, i'll post the pictures of what i've done tomorrow night.
 
take care all...
 
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 9th, 2006, 1:38pm
hi bruce,
 
just dawned on me...i like the new 'look' on the erie-atlantic!
 
 
moose-the-caboose
 
on Mar 18th, 2006, 6:10am, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   George,
 
   Man, I sure am glad you posted some of these pictures. These things are beautiful. And, it ain't braggin if you say so yourself. Not everybody can build cars that nice or at all for that matter. Nice, nice work George.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce

Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Apr 9th, 2006, 11:28pm
  Thanks George, But the credit has to go the WMSR_734 (Colin). He made the change for me. You know, us OLD geesers can't quite figure out all this new fangled computer stuff. Heck, Mike K. had to teach me how to use the scaner. And have I ever been useing it.  
 
   Thanks again George,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 10th, 2006, 7:15pm
hi bruce and all,
 
thanks to my signman and pockets, i'm closer to a steam engine than ever before...i actually have a miniature stationary steam engine with which to teach youngsters with.  and it works!  pockets has been working with me to get the cli-shay closer to the building bench (thanks for the wheels and the kick in da boot).  alot has been happening.
 
tonight, what i wanted to share with those who are thinking about building a railcar is what the foundation of the railcar that i'm currently working is.   by and large, the railcars we build in the live steam hobby fall in two catagories:
 
1. working/operational - such as gondolas, hoppers, flatcars, rider cars, ect.
 
2.  display/non-operational  - such as passenger cars, some tank cars, cabooses, ect.
 
my current and past efforts have been the display/non-operational railcars.  both types of railcars are economically achievable, so it's just a matter of deciding what you want.  form follows function, the foundation of a display car may be much lighter in construction than a working railcar.  for my railcars, i've chosen to use a combination of stable furniture-grade plywood and steel centersill to form the platform on which to build.  remember, a warped foundation means an out of kilter car body.  
 
in the photo below, you can see that the 1x2x? rectangular steel tube centersill runs the entire length of the car.  accidents do happen now and again, the centersill helps the railcar from becoming 're-kitified' when you least expect it.  don't laugh, it can happen to you!  in the live steam hobby, there is an unwritten rule that if you damage it, you either repair it or replace it or buy it.  having a well engineered railcar can reduce a possibly expensive accident to a minor 'oops!'  replacing a couple of stratigically placed parts is both cheaper in time spent and pocketbook crunch.  
 
the centersill pictured is set up for a specific set of trucks.  live steam gauge trucks are not created equal.  each supplier builds in features that cause changes to be made to the railcar's foundation in order to function properly.  the caboose trucks in the pictures are from mountain car company.  there are several other suppliers producing trucks for the hobby that are the equal in every way to mcc's offerings.  it is just a matter of purchasing what you want and building up from there.  the trucks shown, have a longer wheel-base than the regular freight car trucks, so the truck bolster pin had to be moved back about 1/2 inch from what would normally called for in order to miss the step-units.  something else to remember!  do a fit-up before making permanent welds!  save yourself from an 'oops!'  the wings of the centersill truck bolster should match the rocker bearing surfaces towards the topsides of the trucks.  they are there to limit side-sway.  if you can limit side-way to no more-than 1/4 inch but no-less than 1/8 inch, everything else being right, your railcar should track the rails,stay off the ground, and not bobble like a child's toy.  a railcar that can travel to many different tracks and remain on the rails without a fuss is an accomplishment to be proud of.  
 
thanks bruce for preaching the joy that well built equipment brings!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 10th, 2006, 8:11pm
hi all,
 
pictured is the centersill truck bolster setup commonly used for mcc trucks.  a simple affair and easily done with homeowner-type welding equipment.  with a little bit of practice, you, the mig welder, and the steel tubing will become fast friends.  a couple hours work with a hacksaw and mig welder will see your railcar beginning to take shape.  the average freight car truck (avg freight truck wheel base axle to axle - 8 1/2 inches more or less) bolster pin is about 9 1/2 inches from the end of the centersill.  dividing the axle-wheel base (given a wheel diameter between 4 3/8 and 4 1/8 inches) by half will tell you where the trucks you have will go in relationship to the figure given above (just make it miss the step-units).  if you use 3 inch wide step-units, the lead wheel-set should be ticklishly close but not contacting the step-unit.  it really depends on the type and placement of the step-units you want to use.  most of my step-units are inset, requiring a little more care to setup properly.  for those that want to 'apply' tender-style step-units to the 'outside' framework of the railcar, the placement of the truck bolster is less critical but equally important that the wheelset misses the step-unit.  
 
on most of my cabooses, the plywood foundation is the total length of the centersill minus 1 1/2 inches (Length - 1 1/2 inches).  why 1 1/2 inches?  i use 3/4 inch endsills (2 x 3/4 inch).  you can use what ever thickness (or not) that you want, just adjust the plywood foundation to make up the difference.  with the exception of bolting the plywood foundation to the centersill, i use very few metal fastners for the rest of the construction.  a square and plumb foundation is a must for everything to fit properly.  building is the most enjoyable part of the hobby for me.  don't rush it!  enjoy the time in the shop!  take time to travel to other tracks, there's a wealth of information out there to lift your imagination and create a railcar you'll be proud to own.  more...tomorrow night!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 11th, 2006, 7:43pm
hi all,
 
time at work is growing longer and time for fun is short tonight.  i said that i would post pictures of the progress of the commissary car so that's what i'll do.  in this picture, you can see the type and placement of the train brake air line.  i'll partial to legris quick change fittings and piping, others may use other vendors.  it's really a matter of personal choice.  to keep the piping from being damaged by the steel, i'll be shooting a small amount of door and window sealing foam to isolate it.
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 11th, 2006, 7:48pm
here's another view of how the train brake air line goes together.  this shows the connection to the trucks.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 11th, 2006, 8:03pm
commissary cars required lots of storage.  on the previous drover's caboose, i used a straight square box approach to below-the-deck storage.  why a box?  because these cars will travel in the company of an mow heavy crane and will need a certain amount of mass in order to avoid string-lining.  the box does a nice job of hiding the lead weights.  on this one, i found reference material that suggested a tapered box.  so, here's view of how it looks without the lid.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 11th, 2006, 8:09pm
okay, i've added the lid and the rough fixtures of the tanks for water, fuel, ect.  here's view of how it looks so far.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Apr 11th, 2006, 9:06pm
  LOOKING GOOD. as useual. BTW, George, those trucks appear to have a different type of PRESSURE system than the ones I use. From the OTHER company.
The guy you got your trucks from used to use only VACUUM type brakes. Maybe the light went on, ya think.
 
   Nice work again.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Apr 11th, 2006, 10:02pm
Lookin' good, George. About those tank ends......
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 16th, 2006, 8:56pm
hi bruce, pockets, and listers,
 
the mcc people went to regular air cylinders so time back (got cheaper than the others?!).  they are also rated for higher pressures.  "about those tanks"....you metal guys...you have a gift.   me?  i work with what i can imagine from a junk pile i can work with.  you've seen how i'm currently doing it.  this list is for sharing knowledge, not necessarily about me and my models.  the tanks shown above aren't strictly the way that most car-builders of the early eras would do it.  even i admit that the workmanship was superb for what was being built from the 1870's on through the early 1940's.
 
the tanks for the commissary car were inspired by the mom-&-pop shortlines like the Hartwell Railroad in north georgia.  since the commissary car is a "re-hab'ed" car, it made sense that under-carriage tanks might not be 'original'.  they might be 'scavenged' from any number of other sources.  the important point?  they fit, they worked, and they were cheap.  again, form follows function.  the purists' may point out that the class 1's never did that...they would be right.   a lot of this hobby is satisfied with what is turned out by a handful of suppliers.  that's okay on the face up it, their equipment looks great on first glance, but a closer look at three like cars reveals not appreciable changes.  why not do something to each that makes them unique?
 
that is what i hope you get from watching what i'm doing with each of the railcars that i'm building.  i'd like to know that each of you could be like the rancher that knows every single cow-critter on his spread...they are all unique.  it doesn't matter what type of railcar you build...make something about it unique and memorable.  i like railcars that have character.  building the body of a car is great, but making unique details is much more satisfying.  i'm not a rivot counter, nor will i be a super-scale master modeler, but i hope that my work stands up to both the 'first' and 'second' looks.
 
anyway, i've some more photos for you tonight, enjoy!
 
most of the models i build need a little more weight in order to track nicely and not sound the whole world is crashing about as so many do.  the problem of weight is usually not thought of until it's rolling down the track doing the 'bump and grind'.  it needs to be tackled as soon as the centersill and foundation is laid.  in the photo below, you can see my current answer to the problem, in the future, i'm going to try to pour directly into the centersill.  bruce, thank you for the inspiration for how and where to obtain the necessary metal(lead).  it really does work!  
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 16th, 2006, 9:00pm
here's another photo of how the under-carriage storage boxes are turning out'
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 16th, 2006, 9:13pm
it seems that the smallest details take the most time, here's a photo of what i've been working on for the last few days.  this is an 'after' photo.  tomorrow night, i'll show how i did it.  (oops!  it's blurry!  sorry!)
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 16th, 2006, 9:18pm
here's a photo of several types of windows that will be on the model when completed.
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 16th, 2006, 9:23pm
in an earlier photo, you can see the raw opening in the body in what is the kitchen area.  this photo is showing how i framed in the opening, getting it ready to be fitted for an access door.
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 16th, 2006, 9:28pm
one last photo for tonight...and a question.  what is it and how was it used on a kitchen car?  want a hint?  be careful where you're walking while manually braking the train?!
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Apr 17th, 2006, 12:31pm
If I twist my head, just so, the line in my bi-focals cancels out the fuzziness in the picture and makes that one fine window, George. You're doin an excellent job on that car.
 
Waving hand frantically, in the third row, "I know, I know, I know!" I'll let someone else provide the answer, 'cause I have insider information.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Apr 17th, 2006, 1:23pm

 
   George,
 
   Your really out-doing yourself. Those windows are beautiful. BTW, are you filling the center sill with lead weights ? If you are, thats one hell of a good idea.  
   Nice, nice work. Beautiful cars. Man, I wish I was a wood worker.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 17th, 2006, 10:06pm
hi bruce, pockets, and listers,
 
thanks for the compliments guys...with time and patience, most people could do what i'm doing.  many of you guys can work metal to put me to shame.  i look at the project and look backwards to see the steps.  i know metal work is the same, i'm just blind to it.  wood is easy for me to understand.  and the one thing i came to understand about making model windows was that it cost me more in materials than i could buy it completed.  building small or miniature parts in wood requires the right type of wood with a small grain.  that's why most carver's work in bass wood or white pine.  white pine for blocky larger objects and bass wood for fine work.  i've also learned not to re-invent the wheel if someone else does it cheaper and of good quality.
 
having said all that, the photo below shows my starting point for most of the windows that appear on my models.  some have said that i ought not to tell, but live steamers share with one another.  this tip was shared with me by one of my friends in central florida...i'm sharing it with you so that you know that there are ways of creating a great looking model using good materials and modest skills.
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 18th, 2006, 9:02pm
here's another view of the detail in question (sans glue clamps).  got any ideas?!
there are additional details to be added, but the gist (or jest) of it is there.   will be out of 'pocket' (sorry for the pun, pockets, i just couldn't resist) until this weekend.  going to watch over the skytrain model as it performs in tallahassee.  til then.
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Apr 19th, 2006, 10:06pm
C'mon, gang. It's a commisary car and look where it's sitting.....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2006, 8:23pm
hi all,
 
okay, it's been a long week away from the shop.  i wanted to show a couple of photos of how the brake system finished up.  so here's a shot of how i did it.  well, almost, i guess i'll have to figure out how to work my camera.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2006, 8:40pm
here's a shot of how it looks from the 'finished' side.  it will be painted flat black...maybe some gray or over-misted with brown or left black-gray and let 'rail-oil' stain it as it will.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2006, 8:51pm
it's been a good day in the shop.  several of you get nervous when seeing equipment in the 'dead-cockroach' position.  most the of the bottom construction work has been completed...for now.  it's time to work on the roof details.  this photo shows some of the details close to being able to be mounted.  can you guess what each is?  for you eagle-eyed folks, what 'other detail' can you barely make out?  it ain't on the roof!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2006, 9:14pm
Looking Good!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 26th, 2006, 9:39pm
hi all!
 
the devil's in the details they say...so that's what i've been doing.  pictured below is one of the step units for the car.  with some judicious sanding, this unit will be ready for mounting, priming, and final paint.  i've used wood because that's what i'm good at...others may prefer metal for it's durability.  at times, railcars can receive rough handling by folks who don't know how to respect fine details .  if you're good with metal, you might consider it a less worrisome alternative.  personally, i can whip out another set of wooden steps in no time.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 26th, 2006, 9:55pm
hi all!
 
pictured below is one of the access doors for loading food staples and supplies for the galley.  i've learned to create and mount the cores of the doors  before applying sheathing, details, and paint (i hate re-building detail broken in construction).  wooden cars and detail appliances absorb moisture...plan for expansion!  doors and windows need a slightly loose fit so that they work properly when sealed by paint or other coating.  an unsealed wooden surface grows with humidity (remember that sticky back porch door you haven't gotten to yet?)!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 26th, 2006, 10:11pm
the picture below shows some of the additional details either in the works or about to be finished.  in the post above, i show an access door.  i do the entry doors the same way.  both a-end and b-end doors are now mounted and ready for detailing.  the other 'goodie' is now visible, i'm building room separations between the commissary, 'necessity' cabins, and the galley.  what you're seeing are walls in the initial planning stage.  i have pockets to blame....er, i mean 'thank' for this added 'madness'.  i've wanted to add another layer of 'interior' details, but concerns for rudimentary storage needs by others have kept me from it...until now!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
[/quote]
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Apr 27th, 2006, 10:17am

 
   George,
 
   As useual, your workmanship is a pleasure to see, and the information about the particular car you building is most interesting.
 
   Thanks for shareing.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Apr 27th, 2006, 4:23pm
I'll gladly take the blame for this one...One of the joys of modelling, for me, is pushing the envelope of my abilities. You have the natural ability  and it is a rare treat to see the kind of detail achieved in the smaller scales brought to large scale railroading.  
 
The biggest problem that I forsee is knowing when you are "done". At 1.5/1.6" scale, if it exists in full size it can be modelled.....It might not make a practical operating model, but it can be produced.
 
See ya Saturday,
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 30th, 2006, 8:14pm
hi all,
 
i took a break from the 'shop' and played yardmaster this past saturday at the largo track.  thanks go to pockets for organizing a fantastic '5th' saturday event.  what was i doing?  building trains for a card-order session (bruce, i have much gratitude for both you and the larger for preaching an orderly yard).  my little blue english tank engine would latch on to and pull as many as 18 cars upgrade, not bad for a 250 lbs loco.  bruce, you'll enjoy this, after about 4 hours, we ran the batteries down low enough that the brakes would no longer set...it was time to let some else have some fun.   i had a blast!  pockets, thanks again for letting me 'play'!
 
okay, time to get back on topic.  tonight, i want to show you some of the roof details.  on all my cabooses and manned-railcars, i use 1/2 inch copper pipe (5/8 inch od and 1/2 inch id) for the stove pipes.  if you're a tinman, you could knock together some great looking stove pipes with tapers, dampers, stays, ect.  i'm better with wood than metals so i'll stick with the pipe and a tee.  my roofs are individually planked and the stove pipes do pierce through them, so some roofing support is needed.  the photo below is of the block that not only re-enforces, but provides additional support for the stove pipe.  many will note that i don't use metal screws, bolts, or nails as a general rule.  comes from building too much furniture i guess.  metals are used where function prescribes them.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 1st, 2006, 10:35pm
hi all,
 
tonight i want to show you a little more about how the roof details are coming along.  the photo below shows how i mount all my roof-walk supports.  it is also one of the very few places that i use wire-brads in construction.  each support is held by 2 brads until the glue dries, that way i can add them in a hurry without disturbing the ones that i've just installed.  glueing requires good close fitting joints and a small amount of pressure to ensure good contact.  most of the time i use clamps, but there are those situations where clamps won't do...but wire-brads can.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: rdgtrainman Posted on: May 1st, 2006, 10:54pm
Hi Moose:
 
Thanks for the assistance when I go to build the Mogul.  I have the drawings already and looking at them gives me the bug.  I currently have a LE 0-4-0T in 1" scale that I am rebuilding and once that project gets out of the way I am going to start the "Mighty Mogul."  I am looking to have someone watercut the frames so that will take a little time from the construction as well as doing the cylinders.  If you look at Allen's drawings, you can make at least 1/2 the parts out of bar stock.  I have a friend that built a ten-wheeler and I know 3 other guys that have built Soler ten wheelers (Allen's design but with fake piston valve and Walshearts gear) and a good portion of the castings arent needed.  Everyone that has an Allen engine says they are easy to construct and work on.
 
As far as Train Mountain is concerned, I will post a good portion of the pics when I return or possibly when I'm on the road.  Its going to be an incredible trip.  If I wasn't going, that money would be used to start the construction of the Mogul and also a few freight cars from Mountain Car.
 
Happy Steaming,
 
Steve L.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 2nd, 2006, 8:14am
Lookin' good, George. Is this what you were painting, last night?
 
Greg
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 2nd, 2006, 10:54pm
hi all,
 
hey greg!  i painted the underside of the roof and the interior of the railcar...white.  when i get a chance to install a lighting system, a little light will go along way.  tomorrow, the top of the roof will be painted black so i can install the rest of the roof walks.   tonight, i also made the stove pipe skirts (raised flashing).  i'll show the photos of them tomorrow night.  it's growing late.
 
to all, a better tomorrow!
 
moose the caboose
 
on May 2nd, 2006, 8:14am, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Lookin' good, George. Is this what you were painting, last night?
 
Greg

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 4th, 2006, 9:59pm
hi all,
 
last night,  i painted the topside of the roof and some of the roof details.   pictured below is how the roof looked (at night) with high gloss paint.  tomorrow night, i'll show what it looks like (hopefully in daylight) 'dusted' with some flat paints.  once done, the roof walks will go on next.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 4th, 2006, 10:12pm
hi all,
 
i also painted the stove pipe skirts (flashing) and the ice hatch for the topside roof details.   the pipe skirts are made from heavy bond typing paper.  i've found that they could also be made for shim brass the same way.  the brass would be harder to destroy, but the paper would be easier to replace.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 4th, 2006, 10:17pm
hi all,
 
last picture tonight is of the under-belly tanks.  they don't look like must now.  so far, they've been primed and 'dusted' with 3 colors.  two more color 'dustings' will finish them off.    
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 8th, 2006, 10:56pm
hi all,
 
i taking a short break from building to show you that nothing in this hobby is risk-free.  whether your equipment is powered by steam, gasoline, diesel, or electricity...be prepared for anything!  yesterday at the largo track, i decided to run my engine.  i was taking it out of the containers and turned on main power to ease it on to the lift.  there was a bang, a lot of smoke, and some flames.  we got the fire out, luckily no one was hurt, nothing else was damaged, and the wiring stayed intact with no damage.  however, a 400 amp controller is toast!
 
there were no faults in any of the external systems, it's just one of those rare occurances where it just turned loose.  the housing is/was factory sealed, but the explosion blew out the bottom and set the service car alit.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 8th, 2006, 11:02pm
hi all,
 
here's another view  
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 8th, 2006, 11:11pm
hi all,
 
and still another view.  this is of the alley-way where the electrolytic capacitors...were, there are a couple that are missing...gone without a trace!  when a large capacity controller is turned on, these capacitors charge and discharge at least once until the unit is stable.  their purpose 'was' to smooth the waveform so that the motor would see a smooth dc voltage.  not any more!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 8th, 2006, 11:21pm
hi all,
 
i've been showing you the bad news.  well, i will replace the controller in this engine, but i'm thinking of taking one of the two series wound dc motors and making a generator out of it.  that combination i hope will go on my next...dare i say it...gasoline/electric engine?  
 
there was happier news yesterday.  i got a chance to see how the drover's caboose looked in the care of it's new owner.  if you didn't see it being built on the largo thread, i built it and the new owner decaled it.  here's a view of how it looks now.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 8th, 2006, 11:26pm
hi all,
 
here's another view.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 8th, 2006, 11:32pm
hi all,
 
for kicks and grins, here's how it looked when delivered.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 8th, 2006, 11:40pm
ain't bad work for an old codger, huh!.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: May 9th, 2006, 7:12am
 
 
   George,
 
   Holy mackeral, those capacitors really let go. Man, I just saw the pictures. What a mess that looks like. Good thing nobody was injured. That had to be on hell of a surprise when that happened. Especially after all the hours she has run.
 
   As useual, beautiful work on the caboose. That is one nice lookin car. BTW, who's trucks are they?
If I live long enough to build the Stillwells, those trucks would look good under them.  
 
   Again George, nice craftsmanship.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: Adam17 Posted on: May 9th, 2006, 10:46am
Nice cabooses!
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 9th, 2006, 3:40pm
Ah knowed it, Ah knowed it, Ah knowed it.....As I looked at the pics, I thought " If Bruce sees those trucks, we're gonna be buildin' Stillwells.....LOL
 
damnfinejob, George, as usual,
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 9th, 2006, 10:04pm
hi guys,
 
thanks for your comments and support.  londal and new member eric certainly got a wake up call when the controller went!  it's not something i want to experience every day i tell ya!
 
now about the commissary car...greg, you're right, i'm not sure when to quit on this project!  tonight, i made 2 'chutes' (no holding tanks on this car).  i also made 1 of 2  brackets that attach to the roof fascia boards and support the catwalk boards.  
 
a lot of the little hardware like door locks and locker handles are waiting to be installed.  i'm beginning to work on the floorboards for the porches so that the steps can finally be installed.  all major painting must be completed before final detailing can be done.  i hate rebuilding small detail parts due to being damaged by handling the carbody so much.  
 
btw, bruce, the trucks are mcc caboose trucks.  they make two different versions, the express truck is fully operational (sprung, equalized with a floating bolster) and the caboose truck which is just sprung.  from experience (and greg can attest) the caboose trucks track nicely!  they are the same ones shown in the photos of the commissary car.  the truck frames, bolster, and bearing boxes are all aluminum.  i didn't think that i would like that feature, but they ride and look great!
 
ya know?!  if ya got a set of those trucks...stillwells would be fun!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on May 9th, 2006, 3:40pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Ah knowed it, Ah knowed it, Ah knowed it.....As I looked at the pics, I thought " If Bruce sees those trucks, we're gonna be buildin' Stillwells.....LOL
 
damnfinejob, George, as usual,
Greg B.

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 10th, 2006, 9:50pm
hi folks,
 
i had to wait for the paint to dry in order to install the roof walks.   well, here's how they turned out before being touched up.  one more set of roof planks to be installed, then the whole roof will touched up with final paint.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 10th, 2006, 10:01pm
hi folks,
 
here's another view.  if you are wondering about the planking, it's  1x?x? stock ripped to 3/32 of an inch strips.  be sure to use your favorite hardwood, i use poplar because it doesn't split as bad as most of the available softwoods.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 13th, 2006, 2:24pm
hi folks,
 
the work progresses a pace.  while i was waiting on the 'paint' to dry, i happen to be thinking about the cars i haven't built for my self.  well, i'm so busy it would have to be something quick and easy.  something i already had supplies for...then it hit me!  something modern, something old, something meek, and something bold...a low-rider caboose!  here's a picture of what i envision!  what do you think?  the only problem i can think of is how to get all the hydrualics onboard to make it hop?
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 13th, 2006, 3:59pm
This lad has entirely too much time on his hands.....What, no hydraulic lifts?
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 14th, 2006, 9:37pm
hi folks,
 
this thread is all about sharing knowledge.   the work continues on the commissary car...slowly, but steadily.  the first photo is of the top roof tank and about knowledge shared with my by none other than pockets.  i needed a way to show rivets without actually using them.  in the live steam scales, rivets are quite useful and purchased in bulk.  for finer details, they are also over-scale.  for the roof tank, i needed the look of rivets, not the usefulness of them.  
 
pockets provided a simple and inexpensive method of creating them.  from your junk pile, locate a piece of stranded wire whose individual strands are the size rivets you need.  bore a hole that is a close fit to the wire strand chosen.  then you slip the wire in and nip it close.   with that done, take a small hammer and buck to create your own working rivet!  it works...but only for models that won't be handled that much.  for my purposes, pockets suggested using super-glue to make sure the rivets stay in place.  here's how it looks before painting.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 14th, 2006, 9:45pm
hi all,
 
small detail work takes time, but it is also the most fun to do.  this photo shows more of the plumbing detail going in on the top roof tank.  it's not done yet, but you get the idea.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 14th, 2006, 9:52pm
hi all,
 
this is a photo of how the roof walk end support worked out.  again, it is mounted with pockets' rivets.  once you get into it, it's fun to do!  it's not completely done yet, i still have to do some touch-up painting, but you get the idea.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 16th, 2006, 10:00pm
hi all,
 
tonight, i wanted to show you the progress made on the detail for the roof tank.  in one of the photos above, you see it partially constructed.  the photo below is of the work done today.  it's still not in finished paint, but at a point where you could decide to add something else or move on to other details.  on the model you build, it's up to you to decide where you want to stop.  part of the fun for me is coming up with details for parts that don't necessarily exist in this scale.  when parts are seen in an unfinished state, it's easy to tell what they really are.  paint and finish detail work force the eyes to see what the brain wants it to be.  that's movie magic...and the input from friends like you!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 16th, 2006, 10:08pm
hi all,
 
here's another photo of the detail done to the tank.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: May 18th, 2006, 10:02am

 
   Man, those pipes and valves look absolutely great. Nice work, my friend.
 
   Bruce R.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 18th, 2006, 9:20pm
hi all,
 
thank you for stopping in and taking a look at the 'salt mine'.  earlier today, i had someone email me offline asking how long it took to do a 1/8th scale model.   good question, how long 'should' it take?  the answer isn't easy, it depends on the individual builder.  a simple box can be done in a weekend...for some, that's just fine.  for me, to build to where i'm happy with it, i figure i'm going to spend between 100 and 200 hours.  with each new model that i build, i want to challenge myself to do something a little different and a little higher in skill value.  that's just me!  
 
the hours may seem high, but also included is my internet research time.  it can take hours to research and find the right car to build.  as pockets is fond of reminding me, with the right source references and plentiful materials, where is the correct place to stop with the details?  that's the fun of it...and also the dilemma of it.
 
tonight, more of the almost last minute details are finally in place.  the picture below is of one of the porches receiving the last of the wooden details before final touch-up paint and wire-works are applied.  the endsill mounting screws are in place and have been filled with wood putty.  when it has dried thoroughly, the endsill will be sanded again and final paint applied.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 18th, 2006, 9:37pm
hi bruce and all,
 
thank you for your comments, it is appreciated.  i saved this photo for you.   the ice hatch and detail were mounted tonight.  i may have to build a fleet of reefers.  the static ice hatch was fun to build, but i now know how to build them to actually work.  that pockets guy, now ain't he better than a three-toed-wonder at egging ya on to bigger and better challenges!
thanks pockets!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 20th, 2006, 9:37pm
hi all,
 
today was a day of surprizes, both good   and bad .  i'd wanted to finish up most of the wire work today so that i could take the car to my local track and 'road' test it.  unfortunately, that won't happen til next week.  last night, i decided to change the way i make to porch railings.  if you look up to the pictures of the drover's caboose, you'll get an idea of how i did them.  instead of a one-piece railing, i chose to silver solder almost 5 pieces of tubing and rod.  i purchased a mini butane torch (it worked great) because my mapp torch puts out too much heat.  couldn't find my silver solder so i tried rosin core...what a disaster!
 
off to the hobby store for more tubing and silver solder.  building the porch railings this way was a new challenge for me, and i think that you'll agree that the impact the finished railings have is better than what i've done before.
 
my family have been workers in wood for many generations.  so the adage 'measure twice, cut once' really hits home.  it applies to drills holes as well!  only after one of the porches was finished and waiting for the railing did i notice that i'd used the wrong mark to establish where the holes in the endsill were for locating the porch railing...and drilled them.  oops!  oh well!  tomorrow, if i've done the repair well, you won't know that there was a problem.  until then, here's a picture of how the railings look.  even with the troubles, i managed to learn something today.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 21st, 2006, 10:12pm
hi all,
 
in the post above, i showed where the 'oops' was made.  here's a photo of the repair.  the new holes have been drilled.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 21st, 2006, 10:15pm
hi all,
 
here's how it looks tonight.  better?!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 22nd, 2006, 7:11pm
George, my lad. Remind me not to rear end that thing on a run week-end. The cloud of dust from all that putty could be lethal! LOL
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 22nd, 2006, 10:00pm
hi all...and pockets too!
 
i've found that if you make a small mistake, you can usually fix it (fiberous wood filler, rather than putty).  if i've made a BIG mistake, i've found that it is easiest just to make a new part.  in the instance of the endsill railing pockets, it was an easy fix with filler.   if you've been watching the thread with an eagle eye, you noted that the door on the 'a' end (dining room end) has changed from when it was first fitted.  friday night, as i was checking the sheathing on the door exterior, it slipped from my hands and struck a sharp object.  it does happen once in a while.  in this case, it was easier to replace than to fix.  
 
hey pockets!  if you smack the end of this car, you'll get splinters and a steel rash looonnnggg before you get a cloud of dust!   LOL, LOL  .
 
okay, tonight the model is where i wanted it to be on saturday evening.  here's a picture of the progress on the wire work.  the hand railings aren't permanently in place, nor are they aligned.   yet, you can see the effect for the finished look of the model.   there's alot that has to happen before this weekend, but i'm slowly whittling down my to-do list.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on May 22nd, 2006, 7:11pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
George, my lad. Remind me not to rear end that thing on a run week-end. The cloud of dust from all that putty could be lethal! LOL
 
Greg B.

Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 23rd, 2006, 9:05am
All set for hurricane season....Even plywooded the door  
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: May 23rd, 2006, 10:25am

 
   That is ONE AWESOME car. Fer a wood butcher, yer doin ALRIGHT !!!!
 
   Bruce R.
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: May 23rd, 2006, 5:51pm
Moose, if you keep this up, I will be forced into talking to you about building me a Boston & Maine wooden caboose!   Your attention to detail is inspiring. Thanks for sharing.  Bobby
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 23rd, 2006, 10:33pm
hi all,
 
thanks for your comments.  they prove what's right with the hobby.  bobby, between pockets, bruce, coffee, and all the others that have weighed in on my efforts to show and teach others the fun of building railcars, i too am inspired by them.  pockets, coffee, and bruce are personally known to me and it is my pleasure to call them friends.  both pockets and bruce are master craftsmen in their own right.  i don't say that lightly because we are no longer a nation of builders and craftsmen.  these two guys have seen my work and the learning curve that is still occuring.  like good coaches, each in turn ask the question, "ya got just a little more?"  each showing me new ways to do things.  what i do in wood, they produce absolutely wonderful things in metal.
 
everyone is afraid of change, me included.  i was fearful of how my work would be perceived when i began posting on the largo thread.  it worked!  people enjoyed seeing what i was doing.  threads are generally idea specific, so i wasn't sure that i was posting in the right place.  it was bruce, in the beginning and finally pockets joined in the fray to get me to start my own thread.   that in itself was scary, i'd never done that before.  well, here i am, the water is fine.
 
i don't advertise it, but i do build for those who want something unique and don't want to do it themselves.  i've also been known to give railcars away to good friends and deserving souls.  this is my hobby, it keeps me out of trouble (mostly).  most guys like to operate what they've built, i get a kick out of watching others use and enjoy my equipment.
 
tonight, i wanted to show the progress made on the brake wheel detail.  on an earlier caboose, i used 1/8th brass rod for a mandrel to form 2 small pieces of shim brass into guide-recievers for the hand brake gear.  the idea worked well, but meant that the rod had to stand away from the handrailing.  in later research, i noticed that many times, the brake wheel rod came up through the endsill.  by doing that, there was a savings of materials for the railroads.  so...if they did it, why not me?
 
the photo below shows the brake wheel rod (3/32 brass) encased by a piece of 1/8 brass tubing.  info:  the brake wheels that i'm using are from scott lindsey of j & r railcars (reasonable and great people to know).  scott's brake wheels are of tough plastic and resist breakage quite handily.  the brake wheel is already bored for 1/8 rod...so 3/32 rod ain't a good fit.  to get the brake wheel to ride high enough over the handrail was a snap.  i cut 1 small (1/4 inch) piece of 1/8 brass tube to act as both hub for the brake wheel and spacer above the handrailing.  the top end of the 3/32 brass rod was filed round and left proud of the 1/8 brass tube by about 3/32.  the tube was silver soldered to the rod and the brake wheel was glued to the tubing.  take a look and see what you think!  
 
now i count you as a friend too.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
 
on May 23rd, 2006, 5:51pm, B+MNW21201 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moose, if you keep this up, I will be forced into talking to you about building me a Boston & Maine wooden caboose!   Your attention to detail is inspiring. Thanks for sharing.  Bobby

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 23rd, 2006, 10:42pm
hi all,
 
here's a picture of the top of the brake wheel assembly.  this will receive a small 'hex' nut before final installation.  more about that later this week.  take a look and see what you think!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
 
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: May 24th, 2006, 9:06am

 
   HA, how does it look It looks GREAT.  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 24th, 2006, 1:49pm
It does look good. Real good.
 
George meant to say square nut, though. When he checks his chronology, he will realize that he mis-spoke himself......
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 24th, 2006, 10:17pm
i did and they are doughnuts...i mean squarenuts.  they were added today.  i will show how they turned out tomorrow!
 
moose the caboose
 
on May 24th, 2006, 1:49pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
It does look good. Real good.
 
George meant to say square nut, though. When he checks his chronology, he will realize that he mis-spoke himself......
 
Greg B.

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 26th, 2006, 9:32pm
hi all,
 
it's been a couple of days working on the details for the commissary car.  some of the detail items i knew i wanted to add, some were suggested by your comments...many thanks.  today, i took a hard look at what condition the car was in and decided to halt some of the installation work until i was satisfied with the interior.  the car's interior was painted white early in construction, in some places it had become shop-worn and in others two coats of paint simply didn't cover the wood resins (yes, stain-kill was used, but sometimes even it doesn't work).  
 
it's re-painted now and the interior divider walls are ready to install tomorrow.  i've the two access doors to do touch-up paint on, but everything else is looking good.  the windows and the rest of the work-work will go on tomorrow as well.
 
with any luck, the car will head to the track for trials this weekend.  here's a photo of the re-painted interior.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: Adam17 Posted on: May 26th, 2006, 9:36pm
Neat! I really love your work, Moose.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 26th, 2006, 9:52pm
hi all,
 
here's a picture of how the brake wheels turned out...with square nuts!  in this case, i used strip plastic bored for 1/8 inch then filed it to shape.  this detail could also have been done by threading the top of the brake rod and tieing it down with an appropriate nut.  for those that want to go forward with a working manually operated brake system, this would be a better option.
 
for you eagle-eyed folks, in the picture above there's no pawl or ratchet.  that will come later (as soon as i figure out how to do it).  in most photos, you'll see the pawl and ratchet at the foot of the brake wheel shaft.  on the rare few, it was placed directly under the brake wheel on top of the hand rails.  that will be done on this model.
   
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 26th, 2006, 10:07pm
hi adam17,
 
thanks for stopping in!  who knows, maybe we will get you to make some sawdust someday soon!
 
moose the caboose
 
on May 26th, 2006, 9:36pm, Adam17 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Neat! I really love your work, Moose.

Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 26th, 2006, 11:02pm
George,
'bout time you finished messin' with that brake wheel. Nice job, though. See you, here, Sunday. I even cleaned up the shop for such a distinguished celebrity.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 27th, 2006, 10:10pm
hi all,
 
it's been a long day.  here's a photo of how the car currently looks.  still just a few more exterior details to add and touch-up painting to do, but outwardly, the car is done.  work on the interior walls progresses and should be finished tomorrow.  when the interior is where i want it, the last two windows will be installed.
 
monday is trials day.  i won't release it until i'm happy that it rides well and will remain coupled to a train.  believe it or not, many people don't think about this and will debut their creation without troubleshooting it.  it's hard watching a grown man cry when his 'toy' becomes uncoupled and is re-kitified by the train following his!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 27th, 2006, 10:17pm
hi all,
 
here's another photo of how the car looks.  
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 29th, 2006, 10:49pm
hi all,
 
the commissary car that you've been watching on this thread made it's way to the track today.  with my friend alex (his bobber caboose will be finished on this thread as well) at the throttle, we put it through it's paces.  here's a picture of alex pulling more train than he ever thought possible (the commissary car weights more than his engine) and doing a credible job on the rising grades.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 29th, 2006, 11:01pm
hi all,
 
here's a picture of it sitting on one of the steaming bays.  being able to see it in bright sunlight allowed me to see a couple of minor detail issues in the paint.  i'll fix those onsite next week.  the shake down runs are for making sure that the running gear works properly.  if you don't do it...it will bite you at an inopportune moment.  usually when the most people are likely to be watching!
 
more tomorrow night!  it was a great day!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: TAB Posted on: May 30th, 2006, 10:23am
Hey caboose…That is beautiful! Congratulations for a masterpiece accomplishment. It is a truly unique car worthy of duplication in any scale. Hmmmm? How could I do this in HO scale? I’m feeling inspired. How about a shot of the other side?…Tom
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 30th, 2006, 11:37am
Ya done good, George. Nice shot of Alex, too.
 
Since you were over, I got the 1/2box 1/2flat  on the stand and have started cutting steel for all of the brackets and brake rigging. Funny, most people don't think of 1/4x1 and 1/8x1-1/2 hot rolled steel as model car building material... Lots of holes to drill and then comes the welding and grinding.
 
Gotta chase down some Loc-Tite for the axle experiment, so that has the trucks on hold.
 
Keep on keepin' on.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: May 30th, 2006, 4:10pm
Hi,
 
Been dealing with the Loc-tite people for years. They are rather eager to work with you, and you can locate your local source via the Internet and some local phone calls. Don't be shy about asking for samples, especially if they give you several options. I have used their samples for years, and their products have been used on many of my projects.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 30th, 2006, 5:20pm
Thanks, Alan,
I persue this hobby in a state of forced frugality so I will try the sample gambit.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 30th, 2006, 7:10pm
hi all,
 
this thread is about building railcars...bring on the questions, alternate opinions, sources, and solutions!  i'm here to learn as much as pass on what i know (about 2 1/2 minutes' worth ) about building railcars.
 
tom, this car would be very easy to do in most of the smaller scales...do like the 1:1 guys did, cobble out a 30 or 40 foot box car.  it's just that simple!  well, maybe not that simple, but easy enough if you are handy at cobbling things together.  railroads followed the old 'form follows function' rule.  they had plenty of old box cars and reefers and little capitol to invest in buying new non-revenue equipment.  with more than enough shop carpenters around, they put them to work!
 
the galley of the car i built could serve several hundred people in shifts (in the dining room) or feed them all in one go in the 'al fresco' cafe.  you could build a provisions car (an old reefer) with a galley, cold and dry storage or build it with a diner car like i did.  in the smaller scales, kitbashing is a lot of fun (more kits available at a cheaper cost).  to buy and kitbash in the live steam scales is expensive for most people.  it's just easier to build from scratch (and a lot more fun coming up with hand-made details!).  because of how this type of car was used, you could add details like washboards, washtubs, water buckets, hoses, clothes lines, and any number of the 'homey' touches the galley crew would have brought with them.  if you decide to build one, you might add roof vents for both the galley and the dining areas.  thanks to a suggestion by pockets, i added an ice hatch to mine.  after all, the ice was free and they usually passed by or near icing platforms.  this is the kind of fun that the smaller scales have, this is the kind of fun we in the live steam scales should be having.
 
hi alan, thank you for watching this group!  keep doin' it!  let us know what you are interested in?!
 
pockets, we enjoyed our visit the other day, most inspiring!  forgot the motor though .  i promise to continue to poke around in the live steam mag groups to learn more about copper boilers.  sure would be nice to make more head-way on the cli-shay!
 
thank you to all for your kind comments on and off list about the commissary car.  here are some more pictures of it.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on May 30th, 2006, 10:23am, TAB wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hey caboose…That is beautiful! Congratulations for a masterpiece accomplishment. It is a truly unique car worthy of duplication in any scale. Hmmmm? How could I do this in HO scale? I’m feeling inspired. How about a shot of the other side?…Tom

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 30th, 2006, 7:19pm
hi all,
 
here's another photo of the commissary car  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 30th, 2006, 7:24pm
hi all,
 
here's close-up photo of the paymaster's window.  by rights, you could also add a mail slot and appropriate signage.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 30th, 2006, 7:34pm
hi all,
 
here's close-up photo of one of the details most in our hobby forget about!  the car has an onboard lavatory and a galley prep sink.   the lavatory glass is frosted for privacy.  the prep sink window was keep clear for light and outward viewing. 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 30th, 2006, 7:45pm
hi all,
 
and here's how the roof looks in bright sunlight.  next week, the car will receive it's stove pipe skirts and i'm still working out ways of building roof ladders.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: TAB Posted on: May 31st, 2006, 10:03am
Hey Moose...Thanks for the photo of the other side...Tom
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 4th, 2006, 8:53pm
hi all,
 
it's been a long weekend at the track.  we put the commissary car through its paces and it did wonderfully!  for two days, it tagged along with the eje caboose and did mile after mile.   it rode solid, didn't wobble (as so many do), and didn't exhibit any toonerville trolley antics like getting airborne.  this car will stick around the track through september , but its sister car, the drover's caboose is heading north on tuesday .  well, i guess you can't have all your 'children' around you all the time!
 
before it goes, it will the receive one  more set of the details...ladders to the roof.  thursday and friday nights, i worked out a way to build the ladders out of brass shape stock based on a tip from pockets (thanks!  and if i forgot, thanks!).  
 
with my rudimentary tools (a drill press),  i bored through one side of 1/8th inch square brass tubing marked for the spacing of the ladder rungs.  with that done, i used the piece to aid in marking a second 1/8th inch square brass tube.  from a piece of 3/32 brass rod, i cut the rungs to length for the width of my ladder.  with that completed, i squared up the assembly and soldered it together.  since on my cars, the roofs can be completely removed, i had to find a way to create ladders that wouldn't become damaged in the process.  after thinking about this problem for more months than i care to recall, i decided that the ladders would be done in two sections.  the actually ladder section would remain with the car, and the hoop section would stay with the roof.  easier said than done?
 
well, getting over the fear of metal doesn't come easy.  again, bruce and pockets to the rescue.  bruce from the not too distant past and pockets for the last few weeks.  i thought i didn't know how to bend square brass tubing in a fairly tight curve.  i can still hear pockets' dulcet tones ringing in my ears..."anneal it $%&*&#, then it will do what you want!"  sorry, i couldn't print what he really said, it was too dull, boring, and chocked full of experience!  i followed his instructions and the photo below shows the results.  
 
maybe there's hope for me yet when it comes to metal!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 4th, 2006, 9:01pm
hi all,
 
here's a view of how the two sections part.  it's the tried and true pin-n-pocket method.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 4th, 2006, 9:09pm
hi all,
 
i finally got a chance to test fit the new ladder to the commissary car today.  here's a view of how it will look (thanks to pockets for modeling it for me!).  some minor trimming and tweaking, a little paint maybe and it will be ready to mount.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jun 5th, 2006, 7:46pm

   Well, My Friend,
 
   That is ONE, HELL OFA NEAT CAR. You are outdoing yourself. Pretty soon, your gonna have to hang out a shingle. "George's car and consulting shoppe". Man, all of the cars that you've built are something else.
   And, yea, the picture of Alex is neat too. Glad to see him running his engine.  
George, keep up the beautiful work. Its a pleasure to see.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 6th, 2006, 4:07pm
hi bruce and all,
 
thanks for your comments!  the further down this road i go, the more thankful i am to all of you for prodding me along.  i still have a bunch of projects left to do this year that i want to try new things with, but for now, i'm turning my attention back to alex's bobber caboose.  and btw, i would love to hang out a shingle...it just might keep that part of the house dry this rainey season!  
 
bruce, i'm currently talking to a local artist to produce some artwork to put on a hat...just like the camping association!  i know, here i go again!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 on Jun 5th, 2006, 7:46pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

   Well, My Friend,
 
   That is ONE, HELL OFA NEAT CAR. You are outdoing yourself. Pretty soon, your gonna have to hang out a shingle. "George's car and consulting shoppe". Man, all of the cars that you've built are something else.
   And, yea, the picture of Alex is neat too. Glad to see him running his engine.  
George, keep up the beautiful work. Its a pleasure to see.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 7th, 2006, 7:00pm
hi all,
 
work has begun again on the bobber caboose.  as of yesterday, it is now a rolling chassis.  the centersill has been bolted to the foundation floor.  the body has now been fastened to the  floor as well.  it is one of the few areas of construction that i don't use glue and rely on hardware.  should alex want to remove the body for repair/refurbishment, six screws allow him the freedom to make a change.
 
here's how it looks tonight.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jun 8th, 2006, 11:27pm
'bout damn time.....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: TAB Posted on: Jun 9th, 2006, 9:26am
Hey Moose….I enjoyed seeing your efforts with the ladder. I know the annealing process involves heat. The darkening from its use can be seen on the roof sections. How did you shape the pieces into such uniform curves?
 
I thought your pining method for joining the ladder sections was an interesting and simple solution that I wish I could use in HO scale. I have done something similar though. I’ve used two short pieces of insulation from a suitably sized piece of electrical wire as a coupling. The sections of insulation are glued to one end and the other ends just slip in.
 
Thanks so much for letting us all see the documentation of the work you’ve done. It is very inspirational…Tom  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 9th, 2006, 7:27pm
hi tom, welcome back pockets, and thanks bruce for kicking off the goose thread,
 
tom, sounds like you're on track with your method of joining in uh ho scale!   okay, i really meant 'ho' scale, but i've had my share of dropping parts into the carpet, therefore...uh ho!  the difference between us is the usefulness and size of materials.  some materials don't translate between scales, but ideas do.  no matter the scale you're working in, if anything i or anyone else posts that opens creative doors for you (ergo other readers), then i'm more than pleased.  bruce, pockets, and a few others have been my mentors in the hobby, i just hope that i can pass on what i've learned.
 
knocking metal around has been done for many centuries, but even now it is still an artisan's craft.  for the ladders, pockets gave me some specific instructions...just do it!  my ladders are built of 1/8th inch square brass tubing with 3/32nd inch brass rod for ladder rungs and pins.  creating this particular detail called for several very expensive and specialized machines.  as to the curved sections, i annealed them to a dull red glow and let them cool.  i bought one of the fancy tubing benders and promptly found a place to keep it in my toolbox.  it allowed the work piece to twist and turn.  to get the proper curve, i turned to the most precious tools in all of my shop...my hands.   i found that by carefully...slowly... wrapping the work piece around the inside ledge (where the cap seats) of a rattle-can of rust-o-leum, i got the shape i wanted.  sometimes, it's just that simple.  once you start working the brass, it will work-harden fairly quickly.  all you have to do is re-anneal the work piece and keep going.  if you don't, either the work piece will snap or do things you don't want it to do.
 
one day, tom, we hope to get you into our 'hernia' gauge.  it truly is a lot of fun working with equipment that is closer to the '1 to1' scale folks.  
 
hey pockets!  looks like i'm going to be looking for some more sheet brass...the mckeen cars sound like fun!   (i know, right after the stillwells...)
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Jun 9th, 2006, 9:26am, TAB wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hey Moose….I enjoyed seeing your efforts with the ladder. I know the annealing process involves heat. The darkening from its use can be seen on the roof sections. How did you shape the pieces into such uniform curves?
 
I thought your pining method for joining the ladder sections was an interesting and simple solution that I wish I could use in HO scale. I have done something similar though. I’ve used two short pieces of insulation from a suitably sized piece of electrical wire as a coupling. The sections of insulation are glued to one end and the other ends just slip in.
 
Thanks so much for letting us all see the documentation of the work you’ve done. It is very inspirational…Tom  

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 14th, 2006, 7:25pm
hi all,
 
i've taken a few days to get ready for the spring grass growing season.  yep, the yard chores i've been able to put off for a while had to get done.
 
alex's bobber caboose is back on the build table.  since i hadn't put that much here about it, here's a couple of photos of it's beginning.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 14th, 2006, 7:29pm
hi all,
 
here's another photo showing how the structure came together.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 14th, 2006, 7:55pm
hi all,
 
before i forget, someone asked what i use of running gear.  for this model, mountain car company's bobber caboose wheel sets were choosen.  there are a couple of vendors producing bobber caboose wheel sets.  for light duty with no heavy strain placed on the undercarriage, mcc's were a good choice.  the base of their gear is angle-iron...easy to mount and work with.  it's applied to the plywood foundation with 1/4 inch carriage bolts.  this method is great where there is no string-line strain from being cut into the middle of a long train.  if you choose to do that, check out other running gear that bolts to a steel frame.  many people mount their couplers to wooden pockets built up on the endsills, not me.  i mount a 1x2 steel tube the total length of the car.  this not only gives a starting point for coupler height adjustments, but a strong anchor for the couplers themselves.  it also helps save the car from being re-kitified during any of the meet.  well, you can at least repair instead of starting over.
 
here's another photo showing how the undercarriage looked.  the plywood shown was to be another project and still needed to modified for this particular caboose, but you get the idea.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jun 14th, 2006, 10:32pm
It all makes sense, now....You didn't call, because you were taking Alex's hack apart to photograph, so that you could post these pictures.  
 
Greg B.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jun 17th, 2006, 9:40pm
Boy, it sure is spooky quiet in here, all alone.......
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 19th, 2006, 9:46pm
hi all,
 
yes, pockets, i took alex's caboose apart just to show how i'd done it!  well, it's back together tonight, just in time too!
 
there's alot to do yet, so here's a picture of where i started the other night.  you've been seeing this 'patch' and wondered what it was....
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 19th, 2006, 9:55pm
hi all,
 
here's what it looks like tonight.  there's a little more work to make it look like i want it, but by now you should be getting an idea of what it was for.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jun 19th, 2006, 9:57pm
What? Only one lousy pic of a patched cupola? C'mon, George. Haste makes waste, but ya gotta move a little or SWMBO will be planting flowers in that thing.  
 
Have a safe trip,
Greg B.
 
That's a little better
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 19th, 2006, 10:14pm
hi all,
 
here's better view of the work done to the cupola.  okay, what really happened!  every now and then, you run into some lumber...wood...timber...assembled sawdust that doesn't want to be messed with.  when this particular piece of plywood was being grooved, the saw hit a spot where there was a void that was not just one ply, but two plies deep.  most of the time i throw this stuff away and start over.  wanting to keep my costs low for this project, i knew i'd have to be creative in my approach to materials use.  i also like to do something different for every railcar i build.  by strategically using the material at hand and placing the voids where i could best get rid of them, i came up with a detail feature unique to this project and hobby, but not uncommon in old bobber cabooses(uh oh!....oh, never mind, i thought i'd missplit 'bobber' caboose).  
 
so...what's the detail?
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 28th, 2006, 9:40pm
hi all,
 
had to take time off for family business (and perhaps so fun).  spent 5 1/2 days traipsing around north georgia.  and yes, i got to see a couple of train museums!  you never know where you're going to find inspiration for that next project.  one of the museums i went to see was located in big shanty, georgia, just outside of marietta.  you know, where 'the general' is displayed?  hmmm, thought you would!  i've seen the general before and wanted to go back to see it again.  i'm glad i did.  i'd been doing some research into one of it's later, smaller brethen...the industrial locos built by the glover machinery works.  
 
was i ever surprised at the wealth of information available and the willingness of the museum docents, archivists, and curators to share their time and knowledge with me.  the glover family gave them complete access to everything that was glover machinery works under the condition that it was preserved for posterity...that means you, me, our kids, you know the drill.   the glovers kept everything from drawings, financial records, portaits of locos, wooden patterns and 'new' never used castings.  the museum's collection is phenominal!  go online and find out who they are!  and by all means, and i mean by all means, visit them.  this museum and it's staff are worthy of your support.  a lot of the 100+ year old drawings need to be digitized before it's too late.  they need the appropriate equipment to do the job.  if you can help please...please do so!
 
the museum is also interested in a 1/8th scale live steam model of any of the glovers.  any ideas?  i sure do!  that will have to wait until i get the materials.
 
here's a picture of the treasure trove i walked in on.  excuse the earthquake, the picture was taken in a darkened room without flash and a very long exposure (sorry, no tripod).
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jun 28th, 2006, 10:26pm
Please, look at the end of the carpenters workbench. Notice how the planks, of the work surface, are tennoned into the end piece (where the vise is mounted). You can pay $2k for a custom made bench, today, and it won't be built like that. Yes, I know an alleged woodworker who bought his bench.
 
Thanks for the shot, George.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 7th, 2006, 10:07pm
it's been a hectic week at work!  i won't bore you with the details, but i did want to show you some more of the big shanty museum.  here's a picture of some of the roots of american railroading.  for some reason, most people think the rail profile they see today is what has always been used.  no so!  take a look, this is mid-to-late 1800's mainline rail.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 7th, 2006, 10:16pm
here's a picture of some of the 'later' strap-rail that was in use.  this stuff didn't disappear until after the 1870's in some places.  sorry for the lack of focus, these photos were taken in subdued light without flash.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 7th, 2006, 10:26pm
you just never know where you'll find neat photos...big shanty is one!  here's a photo for bruce!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 7th, 2006, 10:34pm
as sad as the photo above is, there were some history making things done during the civil war, how about a hospital car, an innovation that was still in use through the korean conflict and held in reserve until the 1970's and 1980's.  this one is the exterior of a surgeon's car.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 7th, 2006, 10:43pm
and one of patient cars.  interesting and a challenge to build?   many thanks to big shanty's staff for the look back into history!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 7th, 2006, 10:48pm
well!  you thought i'd forgotten about the 'general' didn't cha!  here it is.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jul 8th, 2006, 5:51pm
hi folks,
 
here's a taste of what pockets is up to...now he can post and tell you what he's doing!
 
bravo pockets!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jul 10th, 2006, 1:56pm
See, George, I told ya that posting a pic of my work would kill the thread!  
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jul 10th, 2006, 3:26pm

 
   Well Greg,
 
   I have no idea where the heck that comment came from. Well, maybe I do.  
   Hey, that is one heck of a truck. Man, thats nice work. Can't wait to see more of it together. I'm sure its going to be a lot bigger than I'm used to. Heh,heh,heh.
 
   Really nice.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 10th, 2006, 4:43pm
hi all,
 
bruce once reminded me that those who post are far fewer than those who read.  for a thread with a fairly limited topic area, 802 views is great!   ya got to consider that the thread hasn't been around that long.  i'm well pleased!  if someone views our work and says "i can do that," then does it...haven't we done what we set out to do?  if they say to themselves "what these guys are doing is crap, i can do better," then does, haven't we also succeeded?
 
my goal for this thread is to share one of the facets of the live steam hobby.  my goal for myself is to learn to do it better with each railcar i build.   there's room in the hobby for all kinds, from the most simplistic to the absolute fabulous.  what do i care most about the equipment i build?  first, seeing it perform well, and second, seeing the joy that it brings to other people.
 
one day, i'll be able to build to museum quality.  not for anyone but for myself.  i'm not a rivot counter as far as judging other people's equipment.  i do appreciate those who take time to research and build their heart's content.  i also appreciate the journey begun by a first time builder...we've been there!
 
why am i shooting to work in museum quality?  pockets gave me the most profound answer.  one day, our models may be the only representives left of a by-gone era and technology.  how will future generations know how it worked without working or close to working systems?  think that everything we do will be available on the internet?  information technology looks forward, not backward.  think, we are a visual hands-on creature.  internet data doesn't become real to us until we print it out and hold it in our hands.  you can look at a picture and never figure out how it works.  explore a real world model and you expand your knowledge.
 
a big thank you to all who post or just stop by to see what we are doing!
 
btw, here's a picture of a railcar that i'm thinking of building for myself! (southeastern railway museum, duluth georgia...great people, do stop by and visit when you're in the area! their work is worthy of your support.)
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
on Jul 10th, 2006, 3:26pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   Well Greg,
 
   I have no idea where the heck that comment came from. Well, maybe I do.  
   Hey, that is one heck of a truck. Man, thats nice work. Can't wait to see more of it together. I'm sure its going to be a lot bigger than I'm used to. Heh,heh,heh.
 
   Really nice.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jul 11th, 2006, 12:53pm
Thanks for the nice comments, Bruce. Yeah, thos trucks are a little larger than you're accustomed to. That's a 15" wheelbase. The car measures 104" long x 25" wide and 10" from railhead to deck. With the big block Chevy valve springs, we can give Ol' 7597 a ride!
 
I've got some more pics to post. Soon, maybe.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 19th, 2006, 3:31pm
hi all,
 
the work that pockets is doing on his railcar is wonderful!  i been dair!  the nice thing about working in 3 3/4 in scale is the extra detail that you put on...really could...should work.  carpentry is easy, it's creating all the functioning hardware that can get time consuming.  patience is a virtue, dang it, i wish i had some!  
 
in recent weeks, i've been like a bad penny returning to the pockets' family lean-to.  each time i've visited, a new piece of flatcar running hardware was evident.  while i can create the illusion of functionality, pockets' work truly is.  size is everything when scale materials must be used.  in most cases, material strengths don't scale well, that is the difference between 1 1/2 and 3 3/4 inch scales.
 
when his flatcar is complete and we can find motive power worthy enough to pull it, i'm going to show up with my chaise-lounger, ice chest, and maybe a tv to enjoy the ride his car will give!  hmmm, reminds me of someone else in the hobby who genuinely enjoys an occaisional restful outing on the trains!
 
hey pockets!  thanks for letting me be a part of it!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jul 19th, 2006, 8:49pm
Thanks, George, for the kind words. If I've accomplished nothing else, in this phase of my life, I've made two good friends; You and Mr. Raykiewicz. They are friendships that trancend the Hobby.
 
I was going to post the balance of the pics, tonight, but I can't find where you burried them in this 'puter. Oh well, like a wheel, you'll be around. When you are, we'll stick them up.
 
G'nite,
Greg B.
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 1st, 2006, 7:40pm
hi all,
 
it does seem like a life-time since i last posted.  life keeps getting in the way.  inspiration can come in the midst of sadness.  i've been considering building something for myself in a larger scale....pockets knows.   earlier in the summer, i had the pleasure of visiting the big shanty museum near marrietta (if i could only learnt to spilt) georgia.  if you haven't been, then go!  
 
i'm starting to gather data to build one of the little glover locos built by glover machinery works.  about 2 weeks ago, a dear family member passed away.  it was at the funeral that i learned that one of my ancestors worked for cumer lumber company (home office jacksonville, mills all over florida).  among the companies affiliated with them was patterson & mc innis lumber company of gulf hammock, florida.  i knew my ancestor was a sawyer and millwright working in the cedar key florida area, but i just learned that he was often called on to repair the company locomotives when necessary.  cumer lumber company used locos from just about everybody including glover.  this one?  i'm not an expert, it has a baldwin look, but perhaps it's a porter?
 
here's a picture of the last one that i know of from p & m along us19.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 1st, 2006, 8:33pm
Thanks for the pic, George. That's pretty much the way I remember her from a few weeks ago.  
 
'bout time you got back in the funny papers,
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 9th, 2006, 8:29pm
hi all,  
 
guess what's back!  yep, the commissary car has returned to the shop.  it seems that sometime in the last week, someone re-kitified one of the step units.   i build mine from wood in order to be able to rebuild them for that reason...although metal ones would be nice and save some trouble, too!  
 
enjoy,  
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 9th, 2006, 8:43pm
here's a photo of what's left of the stair unit.  titebond ii really holds!  from the looks of what happened, there should be a few more pieces.  for now, an easy fix...but...the owner wanted the ledger boards wider(ledger boards traverse longitudinal just under the roof line of the car and are frequently where the cars carry their logos).  go figure, still an easy fix, no problem!
 
enjoy,  
 
moose the caboose  
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 9th, 2006, 8:56pm
alex's caboose is back on the build table after being sidelined for a couple of family emergencies.  since he wanted to help in the building of it, he was given the windows to paint prior to installation.  i should get them back from him in the next couple of weeks.  in this photo, the door jambs are being installed followed by the trim fascia.  the jamb material is 1/16"x 3/8" stripwood.  the exterior trim will be of the same material.   the car will soon be ready for its step units.  
 
enjoy,  
 
moose the caboose  
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 10th, 2006, 9:01pm
'bout time you got back on Alex's hack. He probably asked to paint the windows jus' ter move you along. Kinda like herdin' cats. A subject I know a little about...LOL
 
As usual, George, it's lookin' good.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 11th, 2006, 8:52am
Since this thread has, so far, dealt primarily with cabeese I thought the following might be appropriate. First, a preface: Railroad train crews are like any other blue collar workers, including moments of disgruntlement and irreverence. I got this from a now retired C&O/Chessie conductor.
 
To wit: "Oh, to be the conductor, master of the train. My head stuck in a phone box, My @## out in the rain...."
 
With respect and apologies,
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 11th, 2006, 9:19am

 
   Hey Guys,
 
   Because I am SLIGHTLY familiar with where Alex's caboose lives, its a pure miracle that more of it was re-kitafied. I'm sure you will do your useual very nice work on the repairs, George.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 13th, 2006, 9:51pm
hey all,
 
bruce you are right!  no one knows how it happened!
 
the repair is going nicely, just waiting for the glue to cure before re-installation.  initially thought that i was going to have to replace the whole step unit, but as of today, i've found that the original unit can be put back together.  titebond ii is great stuff if you work with it's weakness...long final cure time.  you can't jostle the peices around after the beginning of initial tack-set.  at final cure, it is tougher than the wood.  here's a picture of how it's coming.
 
the lower section will be re-united with the upper section after a 36 hour cure time.  i'll touch up the paint to cover the glue fillets.  the fillets can be seen as a slightly darker glossy area at the joints.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 13th, 2006, 10:00pm

 
   Looking good again, George. I sure hope some folks don'e destroy parts of that caboose again. Its got to be a heart breaker for Alex.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 13th, 2006, 10:01pm
on to the bobber caboose.
 
to make it easy on myself, i'm installing the floor sheathing before the door facia trim is installed.  because i use 1/4 inch stock for my step units, the sheathing will overlap the foundation board by 1/4 inch on both sides.  here's of picture of where i started.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 13th, 2006, 10:23pm
personally, i like the idea of all hand-made detail, but some projects like this one are for folks who simply want something that looks good and operates well.  hand laying individual boards would be my first choice, but my good friend alex isn't a stickler for exact detail.  the 1/4 inch sheath-wood from midwest products works just fine for him.  it would also be a great choice for the first time builder...quick, easy to use, and a nice blend of detail.  with careful use of a very sharp razer knife, it cuts like butter.  if you wanted a little more detail in the interior, this stuff works well glued down for the interior floor, just remember to remove excess glue and keep the seams flat.  it looks great with judicious random scoring of the planks.  if the flooring is stained instead of painted, careful application of a 00 or finer draftsman's pen will simulate floor nails.  here's how it looks on the caboose porch.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 13th, 2006, 10:34pm
hi bruce!
 
the damage was on the commissary car.  alex's caboose is moving along nicely.  still want to get down to see you folks, howard is supposed to return his caboose sometime this month.  when the doors are installed, i'm layin' on the horn to let ya know when to expect me (with the wabash in tow)!
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
 
on Aug 13th, 2006, 10:00pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   Looking good again, George. I sure hope some folks don'e destroy parts of that caboose again. Its got to be a heart breaker for Alex.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 14th, 2006, 8:41am
Looking good, George. I'm sure that Alex will be pleased as punch. Also glad to see that you survived the celebratory weekend....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 14th, 2006, 7:34pm
hi pockets!
 
hope yer trip went well!  i've managed to get a little more done on the bobber caboose today.  see for yer self!
 
this is the 'a' end, the door jambs are in, the porch flooring is in, and the roof trim is set.  if nothing else works, just use the large clamps the way they weren't intended!  try it, it works.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 14th, 2006, 7:48pm
with each new car, i've wanted to do something different to create a unique look.  in the past, i noticed a ragged line where the roof meets the peak of the caboose.  most people wouldn't notice (can't get down to it to see it), but it's there on most every car built.  beginning with the bobber caboose, i've decided to address the problem the same way that the original builders did...with finishing trim.  here's a better picture of how it looks.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2006, 9:18pm
hi all,
 
work proceeds a pace on the bobber caboose.  last time, i was working on the under-roof trim.  here's a photo of how it turned out.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2006, 9:24pm
hi all,
 
with the under-roof trim done, i've starting working on the cupola trim.  here's a photo of how the cupola-meets-roof turned out.  you can also see the layout marking for where the smoke-jack will go.  more on that later.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2006, 9:35pm
hi all,
 
as each new car is built, i try to do something new.  on this caboose, i'm adding a suspended catwalk under the ledges of the cupola windows.  i'm not finished with this one yet, so....
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2006, 9:39pm
here's another view of the catwalk.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 22nd, 2006, 7:13am
George,
I have a friend, a retired Chessie conductor, to whom I posed this question,"Given our road's fixation on felines,what with Chessie and Peake and all the kittens, would it be appropriate to refer to the caboose as the "cat house"?"
 
He looked at me, for a moment and an easy smile slid across his face, "They have, on occasion, been so employed....."  
 
Looking real good, George. What sort of mechanical fastener are you using on those cat walk brackets?
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 22nd, 2006, 9:56pm
hi pockets and group!
 
yep, that's one of the usual 'unspoken' names and uses of a crummy.  
 
in the few examples of the catwalks that i've seen, they are usually bolted through the cupola and/or lagged to the roof.  the ones on alex's caboose are currently glued in place, but will soon be drilled and 'bolted'.
 
i think he will like what i've done, no one else will have exactly the same caboose.   that's the point and the fun of building your own equipment, eh, pockets!
 
speaking of that, here's a picture of the interior of the seaboard crew car i want to build for myself...what do yo think?!  this car is on display at the southeastern railway museum in duluth, georgia.  if you get any where near their area (northeastern atlanta), stop in and say 'hello'!  they're good people to know!
 
more pictures of alex's bobber caboose tomorrow night.  if you haven't considered making some sawdust of your own...why not?
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Aug 22nd, 2006, 7:13am, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
George,
I have a friend, a retired Chessie conductor, to whom I posed this question,"Given our road's fixation on felines,what with Chessie and Peake and all the kittens, would it be appropriate to refer to the caboose as the "cat house"?"
 
He looked at me, for a moment and an easy smile slid across his face, "They have, on occasion, been so employed....."  
 
Looking real good, George. What sort of mechanical fastener are you using on those cat walk brackets?

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 23rd, 2006, 8:50pm
hi all!
 
you saw how the catwalk was being built, here's a photo of how it looks now.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 23rd, 2006, 8:57pm
hi all!
 
here's a photo of the other side going together.  a note if you're going to glue it together like i do...strong bonds come from bound materials, er, keep it clamped!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 23rd, 2006, 9:03pm
hi all!
 
one new project for tonight.  i'm started some of the roof details.  here's a photo of what i was able to do while the last catwalk was setting up.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 23rd, 2006, 9:24pm
Like they say in the wooden boat crowd, "He who dies with the most clamps, wins!  
 
Someday, when you're old enough, I'll show you how to make those supports out of angle.....
 
Lookin' good, Hoss,
Greg B.
 
PS: Look at the top of this post. What, in the poured babbit bearings of Beelzibub, is a Moose the Ca?
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 24th, 2006, 9:41pm
yeh, yeh, yeh, ya keep threatening me with that line and you only tried to teach me a thousand times!  as to moose-the-ca, that's one of the eccentricities of railfan.net, too many characters in the title-subject i guess.
 
as i was waiting for the glue to dry, i tried my hand at making a lantern for alex's bobber caboose (opps, i almost typed it the 'other' way).  here's a photo of the result.
 
enjoy,  
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
on Aug 23rd, 2006, 9:24pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Like they say in the wooden boat crowd, "He who dies with the most clamps, wins!  
 
Someday, when you're old enough, I'll show you how to make those supports out of angle.....
 
Lookin' good, Hoss,
Greg B.
 
PS: Look at the top of this post. What, in the poured babbit bearings of Beelzibub, is a Moose the Ca?

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 24th, 2006, 9:48pm
the real question is can i file/sand it square without breaking it, then can i do it twice!   guess we will have to see tomorrow night!  til' then, here's another view of it.
 
enjoy,  
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 25th, 2006, 7:35am
Not a bad shape to the bug attractor. Go steal a few of the wife's emory boards and use them like files. Better yet, hit a Walgreen's and pick up a couple of those diamond or carbide or whatever , impregnated (can I say that here?) fingernail files. You'll wonder how you ever got along without them.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 25th, 2006, 9:21am

 
   W-O-W !!!  What great pictures. That interior is something else ! As useual, very, very nice work, George.
 
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
 
  ps
If you keep posting nice pics like this, I'm going to have to break down and buy a regular, new style, digital camera. Ha,ha,ha.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 25th, 2006, 9:40pm
hi bruce, greg, and group,
 
thanks for the encouragemet!  evening storms kept me out of the shop for awhile tonight, so no pictures until tomorrow.  worked on additional roof ramps tonight, will have it ready for paint, shortly!
 
til' then,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Aug 25th, 2006, 9:21am, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   W-O-W !!!  What great pictures. That interior is something else ! As useual, very, very nice work, George.
 
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
 
  ps
If you keep posting nice pics like this, I'm going to have to break down and buy a regular, new style, digital camera. Ha,ha,ha.

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 25th, 2006, 10:21pm
Man, I've been hearin' me some lame excuses, but bad weather keepi' you OUT of the workshop!?  
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 26th, 2006, 8:22pm
lame excuses, eh?!
 
been up in a bucket truck too long to play with lightning any more.  i've been tingled twice...don't care to do it again, haha!  the closer you get to lakeland, the more lightning strikes you get (lakeland is a the lightning capitol of florida).  when lightning is around, i'm not going to be on the computer or in the shop!
 
here's some photos of what i've been doing.  the roof supports have been set and glued in.  the 5/8th inch brads are acting like clamps.  the hole for the smoke-jack has also been bored through.  i don't like using high speed drills for this job because of the damage possible from being too impatient and spinning too fast.  this is an auger job, i use a brace-n-bit...slow, steady and controllable.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 26th, 2006, 8:31pm
here's how the caboose looks so far.  not bad, just got to get back and finish the 'b' end of the cupola.  what's left on the to-do list?  the two main items are doors and steps, once the body is painted, then it will be time to install the roof catwalks and for the wire-work to begin.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 26th, 2006, 8:36pm
i also bored the endsills for the wire-work to come.  easier to do off the model than on it!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 26th, 2006, 8:42pm
...and what about the question of 'can he do it twice' (the lanterns that is)?  take a look at this photo!  not bad for an amatuer and with pine no less!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Aug 26th, 2006, 11:59pm
Hi Moose,
 
Looking really good. We told you that the graduate course by Norm Abram and his Yankee Workshop would do you a world of good. All you need now is the use of all his power tools. Looks like you borrowed enough of his clamps. I don't think he uses the Loctites, the anaerobics or crazy glues. He prefers the really strong two component epoxies.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 27th, 2006, 2:06pm
This will give a sense of perspective for 3-3/4" scale. That is still 7.5" gauge.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 27th, 2006, 4:23pm

 
   Very nice, Greg.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 27th, 2006, 6:58pm
Thanks, Bruce,
How's that trestle coming. I read your post, where you finished that lead. You guys are doing a great job.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 28th, 2006, 8:14pm
hi alan and group,
 
alan, i'm definitely a fan of titebond II!  great stuff when it is completed cured.  would like to use the ambroid alphatics, but they are too brittle and too expensive to use on bonds larger than what would be found on rc aircraft.  i like locktite's cyano glues for small detail parts because it works and is easy to clean up the excess without marring a painted finish (some just ghost in a white film from the fumes, not loctite in my experience).
 
in all my posts, you'll note that the only hardware i use is either necessary for mechanical purposes or temporary clamping power.  i only use wood screws to hold the body (i so can remove the bodies if need be)and the endsills to foundation board.  i've seen others use angle brackets, angle iron, or just screws to hold sides and end pieces.  it might be okay for others, but not for me.  my grandfather would tell me to do the joint right and i wouldn't have to go to the hardware store.  a good job is worth doing right!  he lived it, i believe it.
 
in the posts that you'll see by greg (pockets), where appropriate, hardware is used as it was intended to be used by the 1 to 1 railroads.  when he has completed work on the flatcar, i hope you find the symphony of parts creating a synergy of form follows function.  i have been fortunate to watch this craftsman at work.    
 
by the way, the photo below is what i'm hoping to build a model of....in about 14 more railcars!  this photo was taken at the big shanty museum in north georgia, they are justly proud of their new exhibit.   would be neat in 3 3/4" scale!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 28th, 2006, 11:07pm
" a symphony of parts" Well, George, my work has been called a great many things, but that's a new one. I thank you for the compliments, but your own work doesn't have to back up from anyone's.
 
It is the scale that allows me to truely follow the prototype. Were I building in 1-1/2" scale, I would be using techniques almost identical to yours. My models would be too fragile for serious operation, if built in 1-1/2" scale. That end sill is a chunk of Brazilian Cherry, 1-1/2" x 2-1/2" in section.
 
Call me, George and talk me through this picture thing, again. They say the memory is the second thing to go
 
Greg B.
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 30th, 2006, 10:55pm
hi pockets and group,
 
the pleasure has been all mine in being able to talk, type, swap lies, observe, and learn from folks like you, bruce, and many others.   to see the workmanship done by a few in this hobby is to appreciate poetry in motion.  it's one thing to talk it, but quite a different matter to build it, operate it and/or restore it to a museum quality condition.  and as bruce preachs, it must be passed on in order to maintain the skills to do it.  even as my work grows in complexity, i don't want to forget how guide others in their journey.
 
and now, back to our movie...opps!  sorry, wrong planet...well, they just got rid of that planet last week so i guess i'll have to talk about alex's bobber caboose.
 
when many people start building a caboose project,  they spend a lot of time getting the woodwork to look good, but shrink in fear of how to do the wire work for the porch railings.  one of the popular kit and r-t-r manufacturers (mcc), taught us not to fear it, but to bend them out of 1/8 inch brass rod.  if you are careful, it works.  you see it in the hobby all the time.  it is where we all start and the method produces a semi-finished product quickly and cheaply.  if you look back at some of the earliest of my posts, you'll see that i did it too.  however, i'll learning to do more than simply bending a piece of wire.
 
beginning with the commissary car, i created a porch railing that was a little closer to prototype.  not exact yet, but a little better than before.  because alex's caboose is for a branch-line railroad and not a class a, i wanted to create a simpler look...nothing elaborate.  in the photo below, you can see the technique i'm starting to use.  i'm still using 1/8 inch brass rod, but i've flattened a small bit of it where a chain would hang keeping you from walking on the coupler shank.  with a hole drilled to a loose 1/16 inch, this piece of rod will slide over a piece of 1/16 in brass rod which in turn is slide into a piece of 1/8 inch brass tubing.  it still sort of looks like my earlier work, but it will soon gain 1 or 2 more posts inset like the inside one.  when everything is in alignment, it will be soldered together to form a single unit.  go ahead, look at the picture, it'll explain it better than i can.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 31st, 2006, 8:18am
Looking good, my friend. If you get into that 0400 file, you will get some additional inspiration. Some great shots there.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 31st, 2006, 10:14am

 
   Beautiful, George, just beautiful.  
 
   Now here is a thought for you car builder guys. George, as you know, I have an old MC caboose. For the guys that don't know what I'm referring to, its the caboose with the ERIE diamond on it. The end sills have been broken so many times, it ain't funny. You know, the sill right above the coupler pocket, that extends side to side next to the steps. You have a beautiful picture of what I'm talking about in the last or next to last pic you posted. On my caboose, the wooden piece is 3/4 inch thick and about one inch high. If I remember right. Well, my thought is this, why could'nt that be made from a piece of steel 3/4 inch thick material. Mill it to clear around the center car sill that extends out to accept the coupler. Then, WELD the damn thing to the car center sill. That way, when and if the car derails, or inadvertantly get side swiped, the damn end sill won't end up in spinters. I think mine have more Elmers glue in them than wood. Just a thought. What do you think??
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:15pm
It makes good sense to me, Bruce and it might accomplish a couple of other things;
 
  1) The additional weight might alleviate the "cinder block syndrome" that so many cabeese suffer from and allow the suspension to work.
 
  2) It might garner some payback, via pilot mayhem, on the engineer with his head in the firebox.
 
Just a thought,
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 31st, 2006, 9:11pm
hi bruce, pockets, and group,
 
bruce, that sounds like a great idea!  it solves the problem of how to attach i-bolts for safety chains and could be milled additionally to take the shape of some of the c-beam endsills found throughout the fleets.  it also eliminates the added 1"x1"x2" pieces of steel tubing that i currently have to weld to the centersill for i-bolt support.
 
for those having a hard time following our conversation, the photo below shows the wooden endsill that i make.  looking behind the endsill, you can see the shadow of the square steel tubing used for i-bolt support.  on most live steam railroads around the country, safety chains are required if the general public is to ride your train(for what ever reason, couplers do let go once in a while).  for my situation, the square tubing anchors the i-bolts and safety chains, otherwise, bye-bye endsills!  in every endeavor, a little rain must fall...especially when the guy behind you has his head where it shouldn't (in the 'cab', fiddling with the fire or a piece of apparatus) be on a railroad with heavy traffic.  the endsill and the step-units are the items that get 're-kitified' the most.  there is an unwritten rule in the hobby that if you break it, then you fix it, buy it, replace it, or pay for it...after all, it's only fair.  our one-of-a-kind equipment comes at a dear price!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 1st, 2006, 9:18pm
hi all,
 
spent so time today making some needed repairs to the commissary car...the broken/repaired step-unit is finally re-installed!  i'll post a photo tomorrow night.  if there is any time left after this weekend's run, i'll start working on the extensions of the ledgerboards so this car will finally be OUT OF HERE!  alex's bobber caboose travels to meet alex tomorrow, gonna give him some more painting to do.  some more detailing work left to do on his bobber, but it's almost gone as well!  then on to finishing the wm caboose.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2006, 9:38pm
hi all,
 
i've spent the last two days in largo.  alex's bobber caboose made it over there for alex to see.  i do believe he was pleased to see it!
 
as promised, here's a picture of alex with his caboose...i think he likes it.  i believe he was surprized by some of the detail work that you've been watching being done.  alex is a great guy to have in your corner, and deserves a little tlc, don't cha think!  i have to be careful about talking about him, i've talked him in to visiting us here on the thread once in a while!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2006, 9:47pm
as i've done in the past, i like to show my own learning curve.  that is to say where i started and where i am...and the mistakes made along the way.  here's a photo of my first caboose, the ej&e, my second, the wabash, and the current one, the bobber caboose.  on each new project, i try to incorporate what i've learned on the last one.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 7:30am
George, that's developing into one fine looking crummy. People don't come much nicer than Alex and something of this caliber is only fitting.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 12:53pm
George, I am having a hard time combining the word "Crummie" to any thing you have made thus far. The railroad term notwithstanding, the word evokes an image of poor quality. But everything I have seen from your shop has been of the highest quality. So lets just call the latest one a "Bobber" from here on.  
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 1:25pm

 
   George,
 
   Good to see Alex with his "bobber". Man, your workmanship is outstanding. I sure hope some of the "modelers" in these forums are takeing a glance at your work.  
Modeling in BIG scale. Cause those cabooses (cabeese) are really nice models.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 2:11pm
Le's see, now: Caboose
    Waycar
    Palace
    Crummy
    Hack
    Plus a few that shouldn't appear in a family forum......
 
A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 6:11pm
hi all,
 
thanks for your comments on my work.   i guess i'm like most people...i don't think of my works as any great shakes.  it's the old saying, as good as you are there's always someone else who's better.  my immediate goal is to improve me, then my models.  describing how to do it for you is my way of thinking and re-thinking what i'm doing.  your criticism definitely helps!  thanks for keeping an eye on what i'm doing.
 
things are progressing in the shop.  alex's bobber caboose roof got it's first coat of 'tar'.  it will get a second coat before the catwalks are installed.  the final finish will be 'dusted' on with several flat paints to get rid of most of the shiny gloss.  here's how it looks now.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 6:46pm
hi all,
 
earlier i said that i would post the results of the step-unit repair to the commissary car.  well, here it is.  a little bit of sanding and some paint touch-up is all that is required.   the photo is a little blurry but you can almost tell the point of fracture.  it will disappear when i'm finished.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 6:52pm
hi all,
 
i also got to work on the ledgerboard extension.  here's a picture of how the glue-up went.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 7:01pm
hi all,
 
blending old and new work together isn't easy, but can be done.  i cut the addition strips a 1/32 inch larger so that they could be sanded down to a matching thickness to the existing ledgerboard.  here's additional picture of the glue-up.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 7:08pm
hi all,
 
when the glue cured to a stable bond, i could move on to the blending work.  the side of the car is taped up to protect the wire work and the delicate windows.  no matter how careful you are, protecting delicate work is your best insurance from accidental damage.  this photo shows both the tape and the blending work.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 7:27pm
hi all,
 
in this photo, the rough sanding work is almost complete.  now it's time to go to a furniture scraper/burnisher to 'slice' any remaining irregularities from the surface.  after that, a micro-fine filler will be applied to fill any voids.  the rest is just finishing the way that you would normally do it (priming, burnishing, and painting).  there are two thoughts on how to do this joint, the first is to create a machine-fit joint that is so perfectly matched that it disappears when completed (think musical instruments).  this type of joint requires precise clamping pressure for every square inch of joint.  the second joint is one that is tight, but forgiving enough by using a filler material of similar hardness and workability as the material being joined.  both methods produce good looking joints, but the first produces a masterwork and the latter, fine funiture if done right (firewood if done without care).
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 5th, 2006, 9:42pm

 
   Holy mackeral,THAT is one BEAUTIFULL car. George, this is artwork !! Almost too nice to run. Rea, right. When did you ever know me not to run with some nice cars in tow.  
   Just beautiful.  Thanks for shareing with all here.
 
   Take care,
 
   Your friend, Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 6th, 2006, 5:03pm
Bruce,
I've actually had my greasy little hands on this car and it's as impressive in person as in the photos.
 
Everyone:
I realise that, to the lurkers, this must look like a mutual admiration society. My only response to that is once you have become accomplished, in any field, you have respect and admiration for others who have been through the same mill. With this come the compliments and gentle chiding that helps the individual raise his/her personal bar.
 
I feel priveledged to belong to this society. It is not, however, a closed society. So c'mon and join us. Tell us, or show us what you are building.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 6th, 2006, 7:47pm

 
   Friends,
 
   Greg B. is one hundred per cent correct in his comment. For all those folks that drift through these live steam threads, we that are into this end of the hobby up to our eye balls, enjoy hearing the comments and suggestions of others.  
   The live steam fraternity is a small gagle of people compared to the model railroad fraternity and the fan fraternity. If the compliments sound repetitious, its because most of us folks in the live steam hobby either know each other personally or know of each other. Again, because the  group of live steamers, across the county, is rather small.  
   And, depending the equipment one builds, owns or runs, your reputation tends to follow you.
   Sooooo, jump in, the water is fine in the live steam end of our hobby pool. Greg B,
George T. and myself look forward to your participation.
 
Good steaming,
 
Bruce
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Sep 6th, 2006, 8:09pm
Hi Bruce,
 
True enough. At the Los Angeles Live Steamers, Griffith Park, you have several gauges. All have a round house affair where the engines can be serviced from any angle, including from beneath. So,,, we occasionally have an opportunity to Kibbitz the repairs, and occasionally make a valid suggestion. Seems that some things in HO and O gauge are similar.
 
Major suggestion, at one time, was how to impregnate the ties for the tracks. Huge pot, vacuum chamber etc. etc. and a really messy job. Being in the Potting and Encapsulation area for many years I made some suggestions and immediately got the response, "Why didn't I think of that" By the way, a smelly affair also. Stay upwind of what they are doing. But they make a huge quantity of ties all at once, and they last a long, long time, especially in Southern California. These days, considering concrete ties might just be a very good idea.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 6th, 2006, 10:37pm
Pennsy,
George will probably whine,'cause it's OT, but what's your recipe?
 
Bruce, thanks.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 6th, 2006, 10:55pm

 
   Alan, Greg,
 
   Lets not dilute this thread of beautifully built cars with a special smelly soup that saves the  ties. Believe me, I know first hand how very important it is to save ties.  
 
   Alan, could you start another thread explaining the process that you recommended for the tie preservative. I know I sure would be interested. And I believe there are a number of other that would be too.
 
   How about it Alan. This should make for some interesting reading.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
 
Posted by: Downeasta Posted on: Sep 7th, 2006, 6:42am
Very nice work Moose.  Forgive me for not reading through all the messages.  Most of the pics take my computer 15 minutes to load each page.  Yet I would like to know, what are you getting for these museum quality Mona Lisas that you are creating?
 
Willy (nods hello to greg, thanx for the link)
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Sep 7th, 2006, 10:43am
Hi Bruce,
 
Not that much to add. Essentially their process was okay except that it did not have a final procedure of pressurizing the vessel to about 200 to 300 psi to further force the "soup" into the interstices of the ties. That of course, means that the "dogs" holding down the lid of the vessel had to be reinforced to take the pressure, and the pressure was applied via a dry nitrogen tank. All connections, naturally, could take the pressure. The nitrogen tank required a regulator, stepping down the tank pressure to that desired. Everything else remained in place.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 7th, 2006, 10:51am
Yeah, but, Pennsy, wha's the recipe for the soup.......?
 
Greg B.
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Sep 7th, 2006, 12:35pm
Hi All,
 
Never got into the exact formulation of the Creosote type material. From what was heard it is "their secret soup". I did get the impression that it was quite old and came from another club. You might run an internet search on the various"soups" available and compare it to what you now use. From what I can see, the soup, or concoction changes from club to club since the climate also changes. That is, the blend is formulated for where it is to be used. This might also be what the full scale RR's do as well. It would be a logical approach to the problem. One ingredient, off the top of my head, would be an anti-termite agent.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 7th, 2006, 4:47pm
hi willy, alan, bruce, greg, and group,
 
first, thanks for your compliments.  second, yes the tie-talk is ot...it really does merit it's own thread in this family of threads.  trackwork is a science, an art, and a lot of hard work!  great trackwork is a labor of love, not for yourself, but those you wish to share it with.  that is part of the draw of the hobby.  it's why we are here doing this thread and the other wonderful threads devoted to individual aspects of the hobby.  bruce and tom e. are my personal heroes when it comes to trackwork.  if they can't make it work, it just isn't worth doing!  
 
willy, it is certainly my pleasure to have you visit these threads and contribute your knowledge.  i've seen your postings in other areas of the internet, you aint no sloth yourself!
 
to answer your question, yes i do on occaision build railcars for others.  if i ever get the chance to see you in person, i'll tell you the whole story behind the wabash caboose.  the short of it is that i built it with the aid of a little funding from a small cadre of friends (bruce is one of them) as a 58th wedding anniversary gift for a couple who've given willing of themselves for many years.  in all the time that they've been members of my home railroad, howard didn't have time to build a caboose for his wabash loco.  i think photos can see been seen of the occaision in the largo thread.  the work is mine, but the pride of friendship belongs to that small cadre of friends.
 
the bobber caboose is being done for my friend alex because of his selflessness to do a job no one else wants to tackle.  alex is a very shy and private man...certain to be embarrassed when he reads this!  like howard, the donation of my time to alex is a labor of love.  the hobby is like that as almost no other is.
 
if there is something that you like and want built, email me offlist.  you can also contact me through greg b.  as bruce and greg will tell you, i don't like to brag nor do i try to create a market for my projects.  if i never sold a single one, i'd still build them, it's fun to make sawdust!
 
well, maybe i should stand on a street corner with a sign that reads 'will build railcars for a steam engine'!  hmm, maybe not.
 
thanks to all for stopping by and giving us a look!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Sep 7th, 2006, 6:42am, Downeasta wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Very nice work Moose.  Forgive me for not reading through all the messages.  Most of the pics take my computer 15 minutes to load each page.  Yet I would like to know, what are you getting for these museum quality Mona Lisas that you are creating?
 
Willy (nods hello to greg, thanx for the link)

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 10th, 2006, 5:41pm
hi all,
 
alex is wanting an orange caboose to match his orango loco.  here's sample of the color.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 10th, 2006, 9:03pm
George is teaching me how to do this picture thing. I'm sorry if this shot has shown up before.
 
This is 3-3/4" scale. That is a 17" wheelbase on the unfinished truck.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 10th, 2006, 9:12pm

 
   Well, I'm impressed. Some pretty husky machinery there, I'd say. Good pic, too.
 
 
    Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 11th, 2006, 4:50pm
Yeah, Bruce, it's some pretty hefty stuff. I love it, though. It's a great scale to build in and doesn't require any of those special MTP taps and dies. All the plumbing on this car will be 1/4" or 1/8" NTP. The fittings are all standard hardware. Also, I can walk over to the Kennedy and grab a lifesize wrench and go to work. No more looking for the 0-80 nut driver
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 11th, 2006, 6:16pm
hi all,
 
greg, we're gonna get ya sooo familiar with posting pictures!
 
any way, here's a picture of the application of the fine wood filler.  for those who want to try it, it's elmer's glue product.  it comes in a squeeze tube and is much finer in texture than most wood fillers. in fact, it is more like a putty than filler.  apply liberally (not politically) and allow it to fully cure before working it.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 11th, 2006, 6:21pm
hi all,
 
when you're done with the scraping and sanding, it'll look almost like it did before you applied the filler.  something like this, only what was the gap will be white.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 11th, 2006, 6:54pm
hi all,
 
and when you're done and the paint's dry, you'll wind up with something like this.  depending on how well your paint hides, you might have a shadow line if it is thin, but you shouldn't be able to feel the joint with your finger.  
 
with the completion of the ledgerboard extensions, only minor paint touch-up remains for the repaired step-unit and the trucks.  it seems someone decided to remove the keeper pins from the truck kingpins.  since i use 1/2 inch bolts and nuts, it's important to use keeper pins to keep the nuts from spinning off.  the trucks have to read the track rather than the car.  everything about a truck has to be able to move, if only a little bit.  in this hobby, loosey-goosey is best unless a specific precision is required.  for the most part, it just can't be so loose as to fall a part.  
 
when they picked the car up(for what ever reason...sorry, human hands or any other hands are inappropriate for moving a railcar around in a yard), the trucks fell away and struck what looks like concrete (not to mention breaking the step-unit).  i'll work the dings out with a file and re-paint.  the brake piping will be an easy fix...just push the joints back together (i just love legris quick connect fittings)!    
 
next week, it will be out of the shop...again!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 11th, 2006, 9:37pm
Hey, Moosey,
Looks real nice, as usual.
 
Back in the old days, when I was trying to make Ambroid kits look like steel, I brewed up a filler made of wood flour and shellac. Tough as nails, sanded better than wood glue and got smooth as a fresh spanked butt. It took paint well, too.
 
Next step in the evolution: : Those grab irons really want bolting flanges....Iknow, I know. I'm picking nits. However, for some reason, in that last photo it just jumped out at me.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 12th, 2006, 7:21pm
hi all,
 
bruce has been busy, so i've pasted a photo of a particular builder's cars from one of the other threads here so that we could discuss their construction...and how you might do it.  i'll grab some more photos later as i can get them from bruce.
 
the nyc cars are much too important not to talk about.  following some basic techniques, they could be built by a first or second time modeler.  
 
let me start by saying that the hobby is what you make it.  it is also a hobby of extremes.  at one end, some want exact replicas down to scale nuts and bolts, while at the other, all they want is something that rolls down the track (a plywood box would do).  what just about everyone in the hobby respects is a railcar that operates as intended.  in other words, it stays coupled and rides the rails without derailing.  in the modeling press, a lot of ink is given to models that are true to scale and well executed.  yes, they really are beautiful, but...there's always a but, some are finicky in operation.  sometimes, what is loose for the 1:1 railroads is too tight for live steam scales.
 
what impresses me is that a model rides and operates properly, no matter what it looks like.  to me, the nyc cars are jaw-dropping gorgeous.  to others, the detail may not be to their liking...tough!  all these cars were built on a lower budget than one car could have been purchased from a well known supplier to the hobby.  the builder is known personally to me, and yes, i'd give almost anything to call these cars mine.  why?  because when you get close to them, you can see how he did it.  this particular builder does it with his heart and mind.  he built what he wanted without a million dollar budget...that's impressive!  
 
your work doesn't have to be furniture perfect to be appreciated in the hobby, but it should show that you are learning and improving on each task you perform.  don't make the mistake that a snobbish few do by comparing your own work to some one else's as 'mine's better than... or their's is better than mine'.  you'll fail as some many others have.  encouragement is the best route to continued improvement.  remember, there's always someone better, why?  they took the time to learn from their mistakes and listened to the advice given by those who were there before them.  why such admiration of the nyc cars?  not only is the builder a friend, he's a mentor, a mechanic's sage, and a scratch-builder of steam engines.  on one of my first projects, i needed to make some side-rods for my engine.  the nyc builder took my chassis and said he'd make what i'd need.  he did, he also showed me how to do it for myself.  some of us are so slow (me in particular) that an item in hand is better than someone telling me how to do it.
 
for many of you, i can't be there to make the part (as my mentor did) so you can see how i did it, but i can post pictures of what i'm doing.  i hope as we post and discuss more photos of the nyc cars that you can begin to see how you too could build your dream consist.  pulling trains in this scale is fun.  pulling a train of your own creation is the absolute top of the world!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Sep 12th, 2006, 8:43pm
George, Have you ever had to deal with "builders slump"?  mean when you are in a middle of a project but for one reason or another, the spark to finish just isn't there anymore? If so, how do you deal with it?  Bobby
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 12th, 2006, 9:26pm
Bobby,
I can't speak for others, but I have been building railroad models since 1973 and scratch building for almost that long. Scale railroading, like auto racing or any other labor intensive avocation, becomes more of a lifestyle than a hobby. Just like in our "real lives" we sometimes need a vacation. This can be a complete change of pace ( I drifted off into wooden boat and furniture building, for awhile. ) or something as simple as running parallel projects. Turning wheels makes me crazy. When I get that " gotta push to keep goin' " feeling, I go to the lathe and turn a couple of wheels. By the time I've done that, I WANT to get back to the baseline project!
 
Just my $0.02 worth,
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 13th, 2006, 7:25pm
hi all,
 
bobby, greg is right.  it happens to all of us.  go back through some of the posts in the past.  you'll find that 'life got in the way'.   the bobber caboose project should have been finished in december of last year.  like greg, i too try to keep several projects going to keep down the boredom.  it also helps to have friends like greg, bruce, and you guys to talk to on and off the list.  greg will tell you that i really get 'juiced up' after i've been over to see the latest work done on his 3 3/4 inch scale project.  i also get a kick from watching what you guys are doing on the bcrr.  talk about phenomenal work!
 
visiting others is a great way to take time away from the shop and still 'find the spark'.  i've got 3 projects in the shop now that will be done in a matter of weeks.  when the commissary car returns to the railroad, the ej&e caboose will ride home with me.  it and the wabash caboose will find their way down to the bcrr.  the ej&e will remain for a time so bruce's erie can come back with me.  when that happens, take a look at pete's nyc cab and the ej&e in a side-by-side comparison.  you'll find that they are built of similar materials along with similar techniques, yet, they're as different as night and day.  the nyc cars are another great example, you can see exactly how the builder did it...and did it well!  anything the average builder completes can be nitpicked to death.  that's why i look for the things that can improve my work even from a project completed by a first time builder.  
 
each of us are on our own journey, yet one that we share with others like you.  nobody has the same talents and sense of creativity, you shouldn't be held to my level of skills just i shouldn't be held to pete's level on a 'who's work is better than who's'.  i've set my own goals, unfortunately for me, i keep moving them farther along!  our hobby is great about respecting equipment that runs well, no matter how it looks.  that's the way it should be!  it never hurts to congratulate someone on a job well done when their project is complete.  it may be just what they need for the next project
 
right now, the raritan river caboose is the oldest project in the shop.  one that i haven't worked on in more than a year.  life got in the way!  the spark isn't gone, but the vision of it's final finish isn't complete in my mind.  there are some details that i'm going to add that i don't know how to do yet.  this afternoon, i cut the doors for all the projects that need them...so there is some progress on the raritan river.  
 
i used to build musical instruments.  sitting in my living room is the semi-finished body of a neck-through-the-body bass guitar.  it took me months to hand-carve the intricate work in it.  what's left?  incising the body for all the electronics.  the guitar has been there for more than 8 years.  at some point in the future my shop will be clear of my railroad projects and i'll take the time to finish it.  in the overall, it's good to let a project cool for a time.  sometimes you get so single-minded that you lose sight of possibilities for making a change for the better of your project.  like a breath of fresh air, you'll think to yourself, 'why did i ever not think to add this detail'?
 
i wish i didn't have to set deadlines, but to do what i do, i have to.  building railcars is a hobby, let it be a hobby.  the only deadline that you should set for your project is 'where do i stop'?  for some folks, running live steam equipment is the biggest thrill, yet for me, it's building and watching others have fun with what i've completed.  that also juices me up for the next project!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 14th, 2006, 8:25pm
hi all,
 
as of tonight, the commissary car repairs are essentially complete.  the trucks have been filed and painted.  i was also able to locate new jam nuts and keeper pins.  hopefully, this time they will be left alone!  the trucks were re-installed and boy, do they look nice!  all that's left is re-installing the wire-work i removed in order to get to the places needed without destroying them.  i may freshen their paint, but that's all.
 
today, i was able to cut all of the catwalk boards and get them painted.  tomorrow afternoon should see alex's bobber caboose roof nearer to completion with the installation of the catwalks.  from there, i'll move back to finishing the detail on the cupola and installing the doors.  getting within days of being able to go back to work on the wabash caboose.  it needs some minor repairs and some new doors.
 
i will post more pictures tomorrow night.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 18th, 2006, 8:06pm
hi all,
 
here's some more pictures of how the roof of alex's bobber caboose is coming.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 18th, 2006, 8:09pm
hi all,
 
here's another picture of how the roof of alex's bobber caboose is coming.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 18th, 2006, 8:13pm
hi all,
 
the wabash caboose is back in the shop again for step-unit repair and new doors.  when it leaves the shop this time, it will briefly venture down to visit the bcrr.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 19th, 2006, 7:37pm
hi all,
 
repair of the wabash caboose step-unit begins.   here's a picture of where it starts.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 19th, 2006, 7:42pm
hi all,
 
the roof catwalks are complete.  the wire-work begins, here's a photo of how it's coming.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 19th, 2006, 7:46pm
hi all,
 
here's another view.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 20th, 2006, 7:44pm
hi all,
 
work continues on the detailing of the 'b' end of the bobber caboose.  most of the wire-work is done and painted.  also, the wabash step-unit repairs are forging ahead.  will post photographs tomorrow.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 20th, 2006, 9:35pm
Like Daddy always told me, "Every time you think of it, hurry..."  
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 20th, 2006, 10:20pm

 
   George,
 
   As always, you have done some REALLY nice work. I only wish I could wood butcher like that . Those cars are outstanding. I sure hope some of our brothers and sisters in the other scales take a gander at you work. Don't matter what scale, these are some NICE cars. Thanks so much for posting the pics.  
 
   Greg,
 
   I have'nt got a clew as to what the hell your talking about.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 21st, 2006, 6:36am
Bruce,
George does. It has to do with his NEXT project...
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 21st, 2006, 7:23pm
hi all!
 
hey greg!  you're back up and ruining....er, running!  don't forget to phone home sometime!  
 
hi bruce, i sent ya a couple of pics via your regular email earlier in the week...enjoy!  btw the way, next year, i will do 2 projects off the list for privacy purposes, but your caboose, a pickle car, and the raritan caboose will be on the list.  i'm also supposed to do something for our friend with the raritan loco, but i haven't heard from him yet.
 
as if that isn't enough, i'm going to hang out a shingle that says 'will build railcars for a steam engine!'  i gotta get me one!  yeah, yeah, yeah greg, i know, once i have the steam engine, i'll be too tired to build cars for myself, lololol!
 
here's a picture of where the repair to the wabash caboose stood earlier today.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 21st, 2006, 7:32pm
hi all!
 
alex's bobber caboose is slowly coming to life!  some of the details are starting to emerge and show color.  here's a photo from today...pardon the mess!
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 21st, 2006, 7:36pm
hi all!
 
here's a side view.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 21st, 2006, 9:06pm
George,
That hack is sure coming together nice. Alex is gonna be plumb tickled. I'm gonna call you and Bruce as soon as my phone book surfaces. For the forseeable, my life is in storage   ,but I think the book is with me, somewhere.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 22nd, 2006, 8:40pm
hi all!
 
greg, it is certainly good to have you back, and thanks for the compliment!
 
for those of you who've been watching the bobber caboose construction, you've noticed that the 'a' end cupola had more detail than the 'b' end.  well, today that changed.  i liked what happened with the 'b' end some much that i removed all the detail on the 'a' end and i'm now working to match the 'b' end.  here's a photo of the progress, i think you'll agree that the change was worth it.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 22nd, 2006, 8:59pm
hi all!
 
tonight, the repaired step-unit was reinstalled on the wabash caboose.  sometimes when wood is damaged, the break points don't necessarily go back together in book-match fashion.  at times, they need to be 'persuaded'.   the wabash caboose repair is that way.  here's a photo of the reinstalled step-unit prior to 'persuasion'.  i'm showing you this to be able to say perfection is sometimes more about fixing things than building anew.  when i'm done, you shouldn't be able to see any of the flaws or damaged sections.  if you do the repair properly, no one will be able to say that "he just put some lipstick on that pig!"
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 25th, 2006, 7:17pm
hi all!
 
today, i finally got around to taking some more pictures of the bobber caboose.   the door cores have been hung on both the bobber and wabash cabooses.  i'll spend another day adding the skins and doing the final fit-up work before painting them.  
here's a picture of where the work stands now.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 25th, 2006, 7:30pm
hi all!
 
the other day, i posted a picture of the 'b' end cupola.  here's how the 'a' end turned out.  just a couple of things left to do on the 'a' end before the cupola is ready for paint!
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 28th, 2006, 7:14pm
hi all!
 
the cupola is almost done.  here's a photo it how it's taking shape.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 28th, 2006, 7:22pm
hi all!
 
in a fit of creativity, i changed my mind about what step-units to use.  the curved units just didn't lend a look that i was happy with...so the angled ones it will be!  here's a look.
 
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 28th, 2006, 7:36pm
hi all!
 
if you are wondering how i put the step-units together, here's how.  when the unit sides are cut out, they are sanded and shaped together to form a bookmatched pair.  they are temporarily laid aside while the butt-block(a block of wood which will form the back of the top step.  it also butts up to the foundation board for stability.) is hand-fitted to the individual stairwell.  a just barely snug fit does it.  with that done, the pieces are moved to a home-made jig.  because of the small differences in how things are cut out, i glue one side at a time.  the jig is just a right angle on a flat board...easy to do.  don't forget to mark each step-unit for the stairwell it goes to.  and don't forget to use a plastic cling-wrap like saran wrap to keep the glue from going places you don't want. here's a look.
 
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: obwan Posted on: Sep 28th, 2006, 9:47pm
Hey moose,
 
You do absolutely beautiful work! I've really been enjoying your progress here, thanks so much for sharing this.
 
How much does a car made this way weigh? I guess that my real question is how well does a car like this stay on the tracks?
 
I'm a real newbie here just starting out. I don't know yet which directions I'll take in constructing things, but these pictures and your descriptions are a real inspiration. I don't have a lot of metalworking skills, but I do like to play with wood and this looks like something I might like to try.
 
Robert
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 28th, 2006, 10:33pm
Obwan,
I'm gonna run my face into this one, with apologies to Moosey.
 
There are two schools of thought on this. One requires relatively massive amounts of ballast ( cement blocks, lead bars, etc.). The other makes use of a properly tuned suspension.  
 
I prefer the later. Most large scale models are W-A-Y too stiffly sprungand the trucks tend to bind in the bolster and spring plank interface surfaces with the sideframes.
 
Bobber suspensions are horses of another shade. The variations, from railroad to railroad as well as chronologically, are legion. When all else fails, just remember that the prototype worked! keep it soft, loose and well lubed.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 29th, 2006, 6:58pm
hi obwan,
 
 
thanks for your compliments on my work.  while my work is uniquely mine, i didn't try and re-invent the wheel.  i have been blessed with talking to, looking over the shoulder, and learning from folks like bruce, ben, greg, and a few others about how they built their equipment.  bruce was the first to impress upon me the need to share this hobby with others.  bruce and greg are in large part, why this thread is here.  
 
as to your question, greg's right, there are two schools of thought on this.  central premise is to create a railcar that rides or 'reads' the track just as the 1-to-1's do.  full size railcars 'read' track whether they are fully laden or empty.  in the live steam scales, we have to recreate the same ability...and frequently don't!  a railcar has to have mass.  most people build a very light railcar thinking that the weight of the trucks will keep it on the track...they are usually wrong!  what do they usually do to fix the problem?  as greg suggested -  add any thing with weight...lead, concrete blocks, etc.   the weight needs to be above the suspension creating downward pressure.  his other suggested method is also correct....to a point(this is where we differ from time to time).  a properly tuned suspension is necessary, but even that won't fix a problem if there is no weight above the springs.  too light a suspension rides like a fishing bobber on the water.  too stiff a suspension rides like a bad headache.  springs, whether they are leaf or coil, must be variable rate(usually they are).  the first distance travelled should be with light downward pressure.  as the spring compresses, it should stiffen.  you can tune a leaf spring by removing leaves and replacing with spacers until you get the ratio you need.  coil springs can be just as easy if you pay attention to the springs in use.  most coil springs are designed to be stiff at each end and softer in the middle(more coils at the end and fewer in the middle).  if this is the case with your springs, nipping a quarter-a-turn at a time will allow you to slowly test and finally arrive at the spring tension you need.  don't forget to replace the thickness of spring you removed to make sure that the overall dimensions remain the same.
 
the easy way out of nip-tuning suspensions is to add more weight.  for railcars with average sprung trucks from the various venders, i start with 20 lbs of lead and build from there until i get the amount of spring travel needed for a good riding car.  most the of the railcars i build use from 32 to 60 lbs of weight.   without an engineering degree, i have to 'feel' for it rather than work it out on a computer(or heaven's to betsy, a slide rule).  
 
i am delighted that you are going to try a project for youself.  please consider posting in this thread the efforts of your journey.  as i've said before, with each new project i do, i try to do something to challenge myself to do better.  with each new project you do, we're here to help you any way we can(well, greg's right, shove is more like it!).
 
moose the caboose  
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 29th, 2006, 7:52pm
Ooookay, Gang. I'm gonna really lay my neck on the block with this one. In 1.6" scale and smaller, if you want to haul people build cattle cars ( T-riders)! Keep their butts out of gons. They're a PITA to get in and out of without dumping them.
 
That way you can tune your suspension for a constant weight. Cars, of a type, will be similar in weight. George is right, to a point, about mass. You build the suspension to handle the mass in front of you. Adding mass to force a poorly designed suspension to work is, in my opinion, counter productive.
 
I am a firm believer in soft springs. Rule 1 in chassis design is to use no more spring rate than is necessary to carry the weight. Ask any engineer from ACF to Porsche. Clipping springs, per George's suggestion, MAY work if you have coils wound that way. The majority of the springs you encounter, in this hobby, are straight wound. They are, usually die stripper springs or valve springs, of one type or another. If you start clipping them, they get stiffer. Just ask any old hot rodder....
 
Tuning leaf springs, per George's suggestion, will work. The Brits use a Formica type material as replacement spacers. I have used Teflon strips with good results.
 
George, the axe is in your hand  
Greg B
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 1st, 2006, 9:29pm
hi all,
 
as many of you have guessed, pockets and i talk all the time.  he usually goads me, prods me, yells at me, screams at me, jokes with me...and we have a blast doing it!  most of all, we learn from each other.  i build in 1.5 to 2.5 inch scales and he's jumping into 3 3/4 inch scale.  the difference between what i do and what he's doing is that he can actually build working parts where in my scales, they are far too delicate to accomplish what they were built for.  pockets is right, the hobby really should be fine-tuning the suspensions to fit the situation, rather than throwing weight at it.  for the projects that i build, the trucks and couplers are provided to me by the person(s) that are requesting the project.  the rolling gear isn't mine...i don't mess with it unless my expertise is needed to solve a problem.  that happened recently on the commissary car project.
 
for my personal projects, yes i do 'tune' the suspension.  as greg rightly pointed out, the hobby vendors went to a single rate spring on their trucks.  you can't tune them by nipping.  a trip to the local mom-and-pop hardware store could turn up some springs of the right dimension and softer deflection rate that will do the job.  if you've got the trucks already, you might as well experiment.  a better riding railcar is in the offing if you do.
 
this past weekend has been busy, here's a photo of where the bobber caboose is on it's way to being finished.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:01am
Back in the'50s, you could get Fords in that paint scheme; sort of a Salmon and Ivory two tone... Can't wait to see some detail shots of the under carriage!
 
All kidding aside, that's a fine looking model headed for a good home.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 2nd, 2006, 9:37pm
hi pockets!
 
i found a photo just for you!  here's an over-carriage shot!
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
on Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:01am, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Back in the'50s, you could get Fords in that paint scheme; sort of a Salmon and Ivory two tone... Can't wait to see some detail shots of the under carriage!
 
All kidding aside, that's a fine looking model headed for a good home.
 
Greg B.

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2006, 4:32pm
That's great, George! All that's missing is the green tinted glass roof and chrome basket handle and it could be a '56 Crown Vicky....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 8th, 2006, 4:41pm
hi all,
 
i was able to get back into the shop for a little while today.  i will take pictures tomorrow of the results.
 
thanks for your patience,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 2:50pm

 
   Guys,
 
   If I was smart, which I ain't, I should stay out of this.......But.  As Greg stated, suspension is a key element to rideable scale cars staying on the tracks. And they need to be build to componsate for their purpose. He mentioned the "cattle 'T' cars"
which were developed just to ride the public on. Good heavy duty trucks are needed, plus stiff springs due to the wieght intended to carry. But the truck needs to
"read" the rails. No two truck car can rest on all three bolster points. This situation which I have seen in this hobby is a derailment looking for a place to happen. The car has to rock somewhat on the trucks. Too soft springs, with too much weight, causes the truck bolster to "bottom out" and become solid. Again, at this point the truck can't read the imperfections in the rails.
 
   The bobber on the other hand, needs soft enough suspension that the wheels can accept all of the inequities of the rail. And believe me, no matter how much work one puts into the railroad, notheing is perfect. Low joints happen. The trick is to have the wheels drop into the low joints without going airborn. If that happens, and the flange clears the head of the rial, the guidance system is gone. Derailment time.
 
   Sorry George, and Greg for stealing the thread. But you guys know what a nut I am about wheels staying on the tracks.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 3:43pm
http://www.srclry.com/
 
If anyone is interrested, Check out the above link for the right way to scratch build a set of trucks. Yes they are archbars, but the premis is the same for any non-swing link freight truck. The geometry works.
 
Bruce,
About time you drifted back through here. I neede your support on this issue. Ya gotta remember, George is half our age and twice our size!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 8:59pm
hey, hey, hey!
 
i'm only 1.99 of your size...i'm gettin' shorter every year!
 
anyway, yesterday i was able to get back into the shop for a little while and make some progress on the step-units for the bobber caboose.  here's a peek at what i did...also a question.  take a close look at the differences and tell me what you like.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Oct 9th, 2006, 3:43pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Bruce,
About time you drifted back through here. I neede your support on this issue. Ya gotta remember, George is half our age and twice our size!
 
Greg B.

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 9:07pm
hi all!
 
here's a closer view of 'the' question.  well, actually 2 questions in 1 photo.  which do you like?
 
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 9:12pm
hi all!
 
this is a view of this one as seen in context of its position.
 
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 9:18pm
hi all!
 
and this view of the last one.  i gotta pick one soon...for me, i think this one is it.  what do you think?
 
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 9:24pm
hi all!
 
one last photo for tonight.  i was also able to finally skin the last door for the bobber caboose.  it will see paint soon!
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 10:23pm
This thing's really appropriate for the upcoming holiday.... Even though you've got this whole "Great Pumpkin" thing goin' on I do agree with you on the steps.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: obwan Posted on: Oct 10th, 2006, 8:22am
Moose,
 
For what it's worth - I like your choice best too.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 24th, 2006, 10:26pm
Moosey,
Where're y'at? Didja ever get those steps mounted?
 
Sure is quiet in here....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 25th, 2006, 6:23pm
hi all,
 
thanks go to pockets for reminding me that i'm still human.  in the last week, i haven't felt that for all the events that have occurred at work.  many 'surprizes' is how i would characterize having to work late into the night(s).  oral surgery today hasn't helped, but tomorrow is a brighter day.  when the cloud of painkillers lifts, i'll be back in the shop and the bobber caboose will be closer to being done.  
 
the western maryland will soon be back on the build table and the carcass of a vinegar tanker will take it's place on the saw bench....unless the erie makes it there first!  pockets, we're in for a road trip...shortly!
 
enjoy,
 
almost re-toothed moose the almost cabooseless
 
"Sure is quiet in here...."
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 25th, 2006, 8:01pm
Moosey,
Hope you're feelin' better after the surgery.
 
As for thee rest of it; Ya want some cheese with that Whine?
 
Greg B.
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Oct 25th, 2006, 8:05pm
Hi,
 
Remember, it is better to be Mooseless than toothless.
 
And to help out immediately: Drinking is Swell with Lionel.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 26th, 2006, 6:55pm
i think i just became a bigger fan of lionel...
 
hi all,
 
felt good enough to return to the shop this morning and decided that it was time to paint the caboose body.  here's how it looks now.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Oct 25th, 2006, 8:05pm, Pennsy wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hi,
 
Remember, it is better to be Mooseless than toothless.
 
And to help out immediately: Drinking is Swell with Lionel.

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 26th, 2006, 7:04pm
hi all,
 
i didn't forget the step-units, two are pretty much finished and awaiting installation.  the second set were painted today in the first of two colors.  here's how they look now...and no, one of them isn't warped.  the mooses' sense of humor maybe, but the camera lies!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 26th, 2006, 8:00pm
Gee, George, you really are clever. I've never seen a punkin carved into a rectangle and wheels under it....Wait a minute...I seem to remember something about mice and glass slippers... Anywho, I like the rerailing handles on the upper corners. An idea too long in coming.
 
Just nod yer head an' say hey, George.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Oct 26th, 2006, 10:23pm

 
   George, my friend,
 
   Will one SEE-MENT block make the springs work on the cute little bugger. Or, does it track nicely without the block.
 
   Looking good.  
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 27th, 2006, 8:21pm
hi bruce and all!
 
funny you should comment on the SEE-MENT block situation!  it's been in the back of my mind to go visit my friendly neighborhood oasis hardware store to see if i could find some softer springs for those who complain about ridin' in the 'brain-shaker box'.  otherwist, it'll be a TOO SEE-MENT block affray.  i'm a gonna take this here box to the track next weekend and   some people just because it's me! lol!  lighter springs should mean that it'll track as well or better than most stock suspensions seen at this particular track.  will let you know!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
will try to take pictures of alex's face when he sees the car in a finished state.
 
 
on Oct 26th, 2006, 10:23pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   George, my friend,
 
   Will one SEE-MENT block make the springs work on the cute little bugger. Or, does it track nicely without the block.
 
   Looking good.  
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 30th, 2006, 7:40pm
hi all!
 
gettin' closer to delivering the bobber caboose to alex!  tonight i spent some time doing some trim painting.  i like to mask everything off to keep the 'accidents' down.  here's a photo of how the masking went.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 30th, 2006, 7:43pm
hi all!
 
here's a picture just after the paint was applied.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 30th, 2006, 7:54pm
hi all!
 
it's all starting to come together.  here's a picture showin' where it's a goin'.  tomorrow, there's some touch-up painting to do, more wire-work, and the endsills to finish.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 30th, 2006, 8:14pm
That's a sharp lookin' caboose, George. Alex should really enjoy it and every year, about this time, he can put it on the front porch with a candle inside.....
 
Thanks for the pic, Moosey,
Greg B.
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Oct 31st, 2006, 1:05pm
Moose, at the risk of sounding redundant, it looks great. (as usual)
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 31st, 2006, 7:39pm
hi all,
 
bobby and pockets, thanks for the compliments!  with all the 'visitors' tonight, i started giving a passing thought to a round 'punkin' cab...naugh!  nobody would believe it!  
 
today, i got the chance to work on the end railings and some of the finishing hardware issues.  here's a photo of how it turned out.  a little more filing then they can be primed and painted.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 31st, 2006, 7:43pm
hi all,
 
here's another view from the side.  more work to do, but gettin' ever closer to being done!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 31st, 2006, 8:17pm
oh well, couldn't resist!  my pumpkin lives due to the artistry of the good folks at halloween costumes and decorations inc.  good folks to know if you're looking for stuff like that.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 6th, 2006, 6:55pm
hi all,
 
the past week became a blur...time flew by!  i was able to finish alex's bobber caboose to the point that i could deliver it to him on saturday.  in a couple of months, it will return to the shop for the addition of the lanterns, ladders, decals, and installation of the windows his family is currently painting.  
 
those that know alex, often find him quiet and shy.  he was that way on saturday.  how do i know that he liked what he saw?  i caught him taking pictures of it!  he's earned the right to be proud of himself, he's come a long way from when we first met him.
 
as i promised, here's a picture of him with his caboose.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 6th, 2006, 7:02pm
hi all,
 
here's another of view of alex and his bobber caboose...i didn't plan this shot, but it did turn out quite interesting.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 6th, 2006, 7:07pm
hi all,
 
with the bobber caboose out of the shop for awhile, the wabash caboose is getting it's end doors finished and some minor repairs done to the side doors.  it will enjoy some time down at the bcrr this weekend!
 
for those who've been waiting for the wm caboose to return to the build table, it's there!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Nov 7th, 2006, 4:49pm

 
   George,
 
   Those are some very nice photos. I'm sure Alex will enjoy the bobber. BTW, the work you did looks just fine my friend.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
 
  ps
 
   Let me know what you arrieval time is and on which day, OK.
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Nov 12th, 2006, 2:24pm
George, it was a real pleasure to see you at the BCRR this weekend. Thanks for bringing the Wabash with you. I have always thought your talents and craftsmanship were great by the photo's here, but seeing that caboose up close I can only say that the photo's do not do your work justice. The work is exquisite!  
 
Bobby
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 17th, 2006, 6:33pm
hi all,
 
bobby, it was my pleasure entirely!  visiting other railroads is one of the joys of live steaming.  in this case, it was also a very special time for me...to have my work in the company of the most august and respected caboose of john cassady.  bruce and i both have fond memories of this special live steamer and his family.
 
here's a picture from the visit...btw the erie is in the foreground to the right.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 17th, 2006, 6:45pm
hi all,
 
speaking of the live steam family, here it is again ahead of ben's nyc passenger cars.  i'm as thrilled to see these cars as i am to see the possum flats & eastern.  ben is one of the guys who got my 0-6-0 english tank engine off the shelf and onto the rails.  when i first saw his nyc cars, i'd seen plenty of kit-built cabooses.  he taught me that i could do something out of the norm and have something unique.  ben's work is all that and more!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 17th, 2006, 7:12pm
hi all,
 
many thanks to the bcrr crew for pulling out ben's nyc passenger cars for me.  the live steam hobby has made room for just about every level of builder/hobbyist.  ben's cars are a revelation of builder technique.  in the hobby, they are lovingly known as 'ten or twenty-footers', meaning that they look exquisite from ten or twenty feet away.  the closer you get, the more you can see the builder's technique.  ben didn't start building his cars until he retired (and he's still building)...i'm doubly impressed at the work he did and is doing!  a hand for super-fine detail he didn't have, but sheer number of details he built from scratch will blow you away.  it didn't bother him that some of the items used weren't on the real equipment or what the rivot counters would say.  it was his equipment to use, display, and teach others that they could do what ever their heart desired.  amen, ben, it's one of the most important lessons that i've learned from you.  
 
while others are happy with kits, i'll challenge myself to build one-of-a-kind equipment that bring joy, smiles, or maybe a head-scratch to all that see it.  thank you, ben, for taking the time to show me the path that leads me on.
 
here's a pic of one of the cars that got me out into the shop and making sawdust.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 17th, 2006, 7:18pm
hi all,
 
here's another picture of one of ben's cars.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 17th, 2006, 7:21pm
hi all,
 
here's another picture of yet another of ben's cars.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 17th, 2006, 7:24pm
hi all,
 
and yet another of ben's cars.  btw, these cars are all hand-lettered!  a craft not done in many years!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 17th, 2006, 7:30pm
hi all,
 
here's a picture of my favorite car...and the reason i started collecting 9" figures!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 17th, 2006, 7:42pm
hi all,
 
my background in theater taught me that a little imagination could bring smiles by the mile.  ben, my friend john b, and a few others reminded me of how much fun it is to have a scene that's 'over the top'.  this photo shows a little of what i mean.
 
again, the detail may not be super-scale, but the overall impact is simply AWESOME and inspiring!  it's proven to me time-and-again that you can put your hand to anything your heart desires you to.   that...is the beauty of ben's equipment and dreams.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 21st, 2006, 2:31pm
hi all,
 
work on the wm caboose continues (sorry, no pictures yet).  i was able to get the steel for the centersill for this project and about three others...stay tuned!
 
will be working on my computer (ungrading) for a few days over the thanksgiving weekend, so have a great turkey day everybody!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Nov 21st, 2006, 5:37pm
Happy Thanksgiving to you too George!
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Nov 23rd, 2006, 2:14pm
Great pics Moose and you did a great job on the bobber caboose
~AnthonyD~
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 3rd, 2006, 9:42pm
hi anthony!
 
thanks for the compliment!  it means alot to know that others appreciate the work involved and the learning curve it takes to do a better job with each new project.  there are more projects in the works.  i'm still working on the wm caboose (it make not look like much is happening, but i'm trying to develop some new skills to be able to show you a finished product) refining the windows and step-units.  it simply takes time, so when you start your project, know that this is part of the creative process to building a nice looking railcar.  don't be in a hurry!  building is fun!
 
part of the learning curve is talking to others.  the 'moose meadows' manor and family lean-to had the pleasure of mr and mrs pockets visiting today!  aside from an emergency call earlier in the morning (mrs moose said that it really wasn't an emergency, but the house was on fire...from the ac air handler motor, could i come home?  want do you think?!  no real damage, but the attic was hot...ask pockets!).  we had a splendid time during their visit!  i learned some more about metalcraft and cleaned out some of my workspace to boot!  hmm, i thought i heard their car scrape bottom as the motored down the street.  
 
pcokets, may the foam be with you!  lololo!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
 
on Nov 23rd, 2006, 2:14pm, anthonyd_SRR wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Great pics Moose and you did a great job on the bobber caboose
~AnthonyD~

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Dec 4th, 2006, 9:29am
Yes, we were out to Moose Hollow (you have to know this guy to appreciate him for the Cracker he really is),yesterday and had a great time. He has been cleaning out his shop and I have recieved some "treasures" as gifts and made some  "arrangements" regarding a 3-3/4" scale Critter. The dragging sound was caused by the weight of a vft boiler (more later).
 
Thanks for the hospitality, Mr. & Mrs. Moose and herd.
Posted by: W.G McAdoo Posted on: Dec 5th, 2006, 12:54am
   Moose: Our good friend Bruce brought to my attention the outstanding work that you've accomplished. Well, after seeing just a few pictures of your meticulous, magnificent work, all I can say is "WOW!!" Moose, you are, quite honestly, a "craftsman's craftsman"......the intricate and minute detail you've put into these truly outstanding models is nothing short of breathtaking. I'm truly at a loss for words (and for yours truly to be at a loss for words is rare enough to begin with!!) I'm beyond impressed, my friend, and, in fact, I actually feel HONORED to have seen even a few examples of your rare and superlative craftsmanship!! Keep up the great work, my friend!! You certainly do the hobby proud!!  John
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Dec 11th, 2006, 10:56pm
C'mon, George. It's time to get off your cracker butt and back in the shop. Everything that was in your way, in your shop, except the Styrofoam, is headed for Alabama. I showed you how to save those brass steps and the rest is just sticks and paint...Let's go!
 
You get one 3-3/4" scale critter and the we ween you to solid fuel. We gotta get you away from all those free electrons. This is gonna be the quietest Model T pickup around. I just can't decide whether to do it with or without fenders....That's some fairly fancy tin knocking.
 
That boiler, sitting on the kitchen counter, looks like one o' them cappu....cappo...fancy coffee machines.
 
For all you guys who peruse these threads; You've come to know a little about Bruce. He's a hell of a guy and I love him like a brother. Moosey, here, is another. He's one of the handful of truely good people that we each meet on our trip through life. George is a pretty good sized individual and it's all heart. He's always helping someone (in ways beyond the scope of this forum) and is a natural teacher. George is "wicked smart", but can hide it well and is a true Southern, Christian gentleman. I'm proud to call him friend.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 13th, 2006, 9:28pm
hi all!
 
okay! i'll be back in the shop this weekend to start some new step-units.  will post some pictures of the journey into metals!  pockets, there's still a few blocks of styrofoam left...i'm holding it for you! lol!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Dec 13th, 2006, 11:14pm

   Greg,
 
   Thanks for the nice compliments, that I'm not sure I deserve. I only wish I had your fabricating background.  
   Friends, Greg hides his abilities under a bucket don'tcha know. Pockets is absolutely correct about George, being a craftsman and a "cracker" that is. He is one of the few REAL Floridians that still exist. Unlike myself, who is an adopted " Florida cracker".
   For myself, I am always antsy waiting for another of moose's cabeese. And I hope I'm not too old to enjoy that 3 3/4 scale Mt. Gretna 4-4-0 that Greg is starting on.  
   BTW, Greg, can i have a mocha,chocko, layte expresso from that coffee machine
(boiler) you have there. Please hold the water conditioner, heh,heh,heh.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Dec 14th, 2006, 8:53am
Bruce,
My wife, who probably has "African Queen" memorized, asked if she could draw tea water from it, like  Bogey. I told her that she'd most likely only do it once....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Dec 14th, 2006, 10:39am
Hi Greg,
 
Obviously you haven't been listening to your wife. Bogey did not make tea with the water from the boiler, he was using feed water and added copious quantities of Gin to it. Promptly got himself good and smashed and woke up to see Kathryn Hepburn dumping his Gin into the River. We all cried when we saw that one.  
 
Now then, from a chemical purity standpoint, removing hot water from a live steamer would have some hazards. However, if the steamer was in regular use and lots of water were being boiled off on a daily basis, the hot water would be fairly "pure", or as pure as the River water would allow. If she likes her tea strong, you would get away with it. Now, how about the lemon ? Personally, since I have both a lemon tree and a lime tree, I prefer the lime, less tart.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 24th, 2006, 6:14pm
hi all,
 
it's been some time since i posted last.  all excuses aside, there are some new developments in the shop.  i'll post some pictures before new years.
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Dec 24th, 2006, 6:55pm
looking forward to those pics
Merry Christmas
Anthony
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Dec 24th, 2006, 7:43pm
Well, it's about time.... See ya Tuesday,
 
Pennsy, I shed a tear, too. It could have been worse... It might have been bourbon!
Greg B.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Dec 27th, 2006, 11:43pm
This might seem trivial, but realism (like the devil) is in the details. The proper color for freight and passenger car wheels is RUST. The FRA and it's predecessors, prohibit the painting of wheels used on freight or passenger cars. Paint can cover cracks and change the tone the carman hears when he smacks that puppy with his hammer.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 28th, 2006, 7:10pm
hi all!
 
wonder if i could get a large quantity of rust-colored paint?!  hmmm....
 
back in the shop today and made some progress on the wm caboose.  gotta chance to make some metal dust and burn some holes in the centersill.  before this week, i had help from a few friends (yes, including pockets) in welding up my underframes.  i'm now equiped to manufacture my own.  my first efforts today weren't bad considering my lack of skill (boy! a die grinder sure comes in handy.).  practice makes perfect, i'll get better as time goes on and the new tank of argon arrives.
 
tomorrow will see the completion of the underframe.  i'll post photos of my progress soon.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 30th, 2006, 5:56pm
hi all!
 
progress has been made!  it began a couple of days ago with the cutting of pieces to make the underframe (centersill).  shown in the photo below is the fit-up of the pieces that make up the truck bolster.  the pieces already welded to the end of the centersil are of the eye-bolt anchors for the safety chains.  safety chains are now required by most live steam clubs across the country, so, might as well build them in from the beginning rather than retro-fitting!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 30th, 2006, 6:05pm
hi all!
 
in the photo below, the centersill is almost complete.  when welding is done, it is being cleaned up and de-burred.  it will also be de-greased (the oil on your hands will make painting a less the happy occaision) prior to being painted with primer.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 30th, 2006, 6:08pm
hi all!
 
the completed centersill and wm caboose together!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 30th, 2006, 6:14pm
hi all!
 
here's the completed centersill in primer coat.  i'll wait 72 hours for it to cure before decided whether to sand and re-coat or proceed to top coat (black).
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Dec 30th, 2006, 10:31pm
Y'all could stop right now....Trucks n couplers an' ya got a log car.... Yep, I really do know people who would buy into that
 
Greg B.
 
PS: 'bout durned time.
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Dec 30th, 2006, 10:39pm
What size wire are you running in Thomas, er...., your welder?
 
Greg
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 5th, 2007, 7:56pm
hi all,
 
greg, as we've spoken since this was posted, i'll talk a little bit here about what i doing and learning.   most people know me as a pretty good wood-butcher, but earlier in my life, i built sets for stage, tv, and movies.  once in a while, someone would put a welding stinger in my hand and tell me to make a mess.   i could create a strong weld, but like the tires...it weren't pretty!  as i am posting my work here, so am i learning.  for critical weld placements, i've had some great friends help me out with past projects.  pockets has been one of them.   welding is a skill i need to get more competent at to keep progressing in the hobby.
 
after much wrestling of mind, wallet, and advice from my friendly neighborhood welding shop, i decided to take the plunge.  so, just before the christmas break, i took my chequebook...kicking and screaming down to the orange big box store.  once the paramedics re-started my heart when i paid the bill, i brought my welder home.  i've been 'playing' with it and you've been seeing the results.  i ain't good at it yet, but i'm getting better.    
 
what pockets asked about is the size of the welding wire being fed through the machine.  in my case, it's no 35 or 0.035.  like everything in life, skills like welding is part science, art, and judgment.  matching the size welding wire to technique, heat and thickness of the work metal for a perfect weld is something you just have to learn by doing (it helps if someone is talking you through it as you do it).  i can read about it all i want to, but i'm the one who will have the stringer in hand.  
 
here's the wm caboose being fitted for it's new centersill.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Dec 30th, 2006, 10:39pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
What size wire are you running in Thomas, er...., your welder?
 
Greg

Posted by: obwan Posted on: Jan 5th, 2007, 8:32pm
Hey moose!
 
These are some really helpful (and inspiring) pictures!
 
Have you any sage words about how to ensure that everything is straight (and stays so...) when you weld this frame together?  
 
I seem to think here that it's the long center beam which makes everything stay straight, and it's along that where you align everything else. How important is the square between the center beam and the cross pieces where the bolsters are mounted? Is there room for slop (say; "really amature welders") or are these joints critical?
 
Thanks much for what you've already shared (here and elsewhere!)
 
Robert
Posted by: obwan Posted on: Jan 5th, 2007, 8:40pm
... in posts 314 & 315 you show a couple of brackets that look like big red arrows. I'm not familiar with machining and welding that much - but what are these? I see that they hold the 90 degree angle for you, but are they screwed or bolted to the work table?
 
....hey ---- I can do this....  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 5th, 2007, 9:44pm
hi obwan,
 
the 'arrows' in the prior posts are alignment magnets used to do just that(not shown were the c and bar clamps in addition to the magnets).  when the 'tack' welds are applied, the magnets are removed.  holding everything square is very important.  at the moment, i clamp the end that i'm working on to the plywood shown in the photos.  if i make sure that the centersill section is square to the section of plywood...it'll work, but it's cheating.  i really need to build a welding table that is flat and square to work from.  someday soon, i'll have one like pockets.  
 
speaking of whom, he taught me a technique for achieving a close-fit, something needed for better welds.  place the piece to by attached in place,  then take a pencil or sharpie marker and follow the contour of the main piece onto the smaller one.  clamp work-piece in a vise and use a hand grinder (angle grinder) to remove material down to the marker line.  it works!  i've used it to close-finish wood, but never thought about using it on metal.
 
moose
 
 
on Jan 5th, 2007, 8:40pm, obwan wrote:       (Click here for original message)
... in posts 314 & 315 you show a couple of brackets that look like big red arrows. I'm not familiar with machining and welding that much - but what are these? I see that they hold the 90 degree angle for you, but are they screwed or bolted to the work table?
 
....hey ---- I can do this....  

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 5th, 2007, 11:29pm
WOT
The same technique, in wooden boat building, is called "scribing in". For this type of welding (yes, it's tubing, but the gauge of the material makes it sheet metal) a close fit is important.
 
Git 'er done, Moosey,
Greg B.
Posted by: R/Cpullerdude Posted on: Jan 5th, 2007, 11:52pm
That is amazing.  Those are the most detailed, biggest, most impressive non-prototype rolling stock I've seen.  
 
Now for the questions.  How does the brake system work?  Also, how much would an assembled frame of just the metal parts cost?  Would it be okay to use Bettendorfs on a caboose that has no prototype?  Lastly, could that frame be used on other rolling stock?  I've got an idea to use a $50.00 grill from a store and hide it in a coupla, but I need a caboose first.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 6th, 2007, 8:12pm

 
   Hey R/C,
 
   Aside from your desire to install a grill in an 1 1/2 inch piece of rolling stock, I do believe that if Greg(pockets) or George T (Moose) can't help you to accomplish this feat, then probably there are very few others that can. These two guys can not only help but can show you some very, very good methods in scale car building.
 
   I know from personal expierience with these guys. Their work is above the norm.
 
   Ask them some serious questions, and I'm fairly sure they can come up with a good way to do what you want to do in car building.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 6th, 2007, 8:41pm
hi r/c and all,
 
i had to laugh , yes, there are prototypes for just about everything i build, but you are right in that i don't build a specific model.  i do follow prototypical practice as far as 'what' the cars are.  as in the small scales, you can alibi just about anything.  somewhere at sometime, a railroad needed a piece of equipment and had to make do with what they had.  many shortlines were/are short on cash and long on needs, turning a box car into a caboose or crew car was a matter of necessity.  many times, home-brew equipment worked much better than what was on the market.  why? because the design/build team generally had experience in its intended use.  
 
my favorite 'kit-bashers'?  the national railways of mexico takes the top spot in my book.  who else would match an f3 crew section with the long hood of a gp7 or gp9?  who else would do the reverse and use a gp7 short hood, cab, and f3 car-body? the NdeM.
 
about the steel.  r/c, depending on pricing in your area, you are going to spend @ $26 to $28 for a 21' stick of 1" x 2" rectangular steel tubing.  you won't need that much for a single caboose.  unless the supplier allows a purchase by the foot, you'll buy the whole stick.  for the most common 36' caboose, the centersill will be 54" in 1 1/2" scale.  how much total tubing will you use? about 66in (1 - 54"  centersill, 4 - 3" body bolsters), due to losses to saw kerfs, buy a 6' stick in possible.  if you're going to run this car on a club track, you'll want to add eye-bolt anchors for safety chains.  as previous photos show, i suggest making them from 1" x 1" steel tubing (i use 1" x 1" x 1 1/2" with a sloppy 1/4" hole drilled 3/8" from the outer end).
 
about the trucks, you can use what ever you want to use.  you're paying for it, get what you want, and use what you want...but try and get them before you buy the steel.  find a copy of the ibls standards to keep at your computer-side...don't try to make sense of them until we get a chance guide you further either on the list (i hope you will post to show how easy it can be done...with patience) or off-list.  make sure you contact us here on railfan before the first weld is made.  we can guide you in the placement of welds and workpieces, as well as where to bore holes for attachments.
 
for your first car, it is wise to have the trucks and couplers on-hand before you get too far into your project.   not all trucks are built the same, there's some basic 'fitting-up' that has to be done before the car-body is installed.  for the car to be able to couple to other cars, the coupler heights have to match.  this is where many a miniature railroader falls down (real live steamers get it right!).  if a car has a mis-matched set of couplers and no safety chains, it won't be a joy to pull.  it can easily become 're-kitified' by the train following it.  
 
as to the train brakes, many don't use them...sadly.  those that do, have a choice of using commercially available positive pressure (air, nitrogen, etc) or vacuum.  most people opt for positive air pressure via a small automotive air pump, regulated compressed air, regulated nitrogen, etc(the choice is yours, most train brakes react to 15 - 25 psi during activation).  if you look back at the posts of the drover's caboose or commissary car, you'll see the air lines running along the centersill.  if you look at the last post of the centersill of the wm caboose, you'll see the body bolsters are already bored for air lines.
 
about the centersills.  yes, with a little adaption, this same centersill can be used with several different car types.
 
as to your grill...the phrase "we be smokin' now!"  shouldn't apply to your rolling stock.  open lights and railcars didn't mix in the 'olden days' and certainly aren't welcomed on club tracks now.  don't give up your idea of a novelty car, though, but think about delaying it a bit until you're ready to build an all steel car.
 
hope this helps,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Jan 5th, 2007, 11:52pm, R/Cpullerdude wrote:       (Click here for original message)
That is amazing.  Those are the most detailed, biggest, most impressive non-prototype rolling stock I've seen.  
 
Now for the questions.  How does the brake system work?  Also, how much would an assembled frame of just the metal parts cost?  Would it be okay to use Bettendorfs on a caboose that has no prototype?  Lastly, could that frame be used on other rolling stock?  I've got an idea to use a $50.00 grill from a store and hide it in a coupla, but I need a caboose first.    

Posted by: R/Cpullerdude Posted on: Jan 6th, 2007, 9:50pm
Thanks for the assistance.  Where can I get IBLS standards?  I inquired about the in the "Jawn Henry" thread, should've come here first.  I'm looking at MCC's Bettendorf trucks.  I hope to be able to get a set sometime over the summer, couplers go on e-Bay all the time, so no problem there.  Some of my family welds, so no problem there.  Thanks for pointing out the fact that grills and wood don't go togeather, I didn't think of that.  It'd be a shame to burn a perfectly edible hot dog because some crummy decided to burn up.  I will be sure to post my progress of all three future cars when it starts (if i ever figure the camera out).  Thanks.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 6th, 2007, 10:07pm
R/C
I have to go along with George, on this one. Unless I was building a steel prototype, I'd pass on the grill caboose. I have, however, seen some dandy ones built from a tank car. Spot it in the pass, build the fire and throw some burgers at it. The people will throng around.  
 
The only place for mobile fire, on a live steam railroad, is in the firebox of a locomotive. One thing I've observed about the graybeards of the HOBBY, is that they tend to think through the ramifications of an action. They dont always come up with the right answer, but it increases the odds. I hate to preach, but RULE 1, for any aspect of the HOBBY, is SAFETY FIRST.  
 
One thing that needs to be kept at the front of our thought processes is that, like so many other hobby activities, if we don't police ourselves and exhibit concientious behavior, in the way we build and operate, there WILL be a clueless legislative body, trying to justify it's existance, that will. Much to our detriment
 
 
 
If you have some specific questions, we'll try to help.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: R/Cpullerdude Posted on: Jan 6th, 2007, 10:22pm
In the name of safety, we wouldn't want a large, wood fired, EOT lamp.  That is a really bad idea in retrospect.  
 
I want to build a real, working cooler in a reefer to hold food and drinks, a flat to hold me, and a caboose for storage.  I think it would be really cool to be a conductor so I could show others what railroading is and help promote railroad safety.  Thanks.  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 8th, 2007, 6:45pm
hi all,
 
the wm caboose is finally back on its trucks tonight.  the fitting up process is almost complete.  because this car has to couple to other cars to become part of a train, the coupler heights have to match.  the trucks sent to me for use were an older type from one of the earliest suppliers in the hobby.  when the centersill was mated to the trucks earlier this week, the horizontal center-line of the couplers were a proud 5/8" below the acceptable level of 4 3/8".  NOTE:  the ibls standards require that the coupler horizontal centerline to the top of the rail-head be 4 7/16".  i have a particular reason for doing mine a tad shy(not a good one, but it's mine).  the goal should be to build to 4 7/16".  i constructed 5/8" steel pads the same diameter of the trucks' center kingpin pad and welded them on.  
 
in operation, there must be some ability for the body to move (rock) from side to side.  for the best performance, a maximum of 1/4" is all that should be allowed.  you can get away with less rock, but you run the risk that your car won't be able to read rough track.  if the trucks are allowed to read the track, you keep rolling along.  if they read the car, the car will find its way to the ground.  more on this a little later.
 
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 8th, 2007, 7:14pm
RC,
If one is in the proper scale (I am), he can ride in his caboose with his drinks and nosh..... Then you only need one set of trucks and couplers.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 9th, 2007, 7:23pm
hi all,
 
hey greg and r/c, you could build a 40' work-caboose!   you could use the caboose section as dry storage(or cold storage); put a pedestal and boat seat towards the 'a' end of the gon/flat section; and mount 2 workboxes (lunch boxes) between!?
 
that's the ticket!
 
anyway, progress was made today on creating endsills and porch fillers for the wm caboose.  when i started this project early last year, i'd planned on using my own step-unit patterns and installation style.  it's a quick and easy way to do it, but it's just not accurate to the 1:1 wm caboose #1894 that i posted earlier in this thread.  the fillers are 3"x 3"x3/4" blocks that will be installed tomorrow.  once installed, they will be covered by scale 1"x3" flooring just as the 1:1 caboose was.
 
in my conversations with pockets, i learned some new skills...with practice, i can work with metals!  so, shortly i will be doing some of the metal step-units that those you see on wm caboose 1894.  to mount them effectively, there had to be framework there to work from.  thus, the necessity for the filler blocks.  this also meant a change to how i normally do endsills.  in photos posted earlier in this thread, you can see that they are one piece, shaped 3/4" poplar wood.  nice hardwood to work with, but won't take much punishment when milled less than 3/4".  in the 1:1 world, most of the older rail cars used 6" and 8" hardwoods for endsills.  in our 1 1/2" world, any common hardwood (red oak, white oak, ash, hickory, etc) less than 1/2" just isn't going to have the durability needed to survive the banging around that the equipment can receive.
 
several months ago, i decided that i wanted make this project conform a little closer to the original rather a freelance of it.  so, i thought about a gift of white oak i received from pockets.  the new endsills are thinner (1/2") than i normally do and will have a different look.  i'll post pictures shortly, very shortly!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 9th, 2007, 8:15pm
I walked up to a couple of big, white gons (you know whose) that had those seats and looked inside for the oars.....
 
Greg B
Posted by: R/Cpullerdude Posted on: Jan 9th, 2007, 10:58pm
on Jan 9th, 2007, 7:23pm, moose_the_caboose wrote:       (Click here for original message)
hi all,
 
hey greg and r/c, you could build a 40' work-caboose!   you could use the caboose section as dry storage(or cold storage); put a pedestal and boat seat towards the 'a' end of the gon/flat section; and mount 2 workboxes (lunch boxes) between!?
 
that's the ticket!
 
moose the caboose

 
Sure is.  That can save me money and time because 3 cars would be consolidated into one.  Also, earlier you spoke of making lead weights.  If it's been asked or stated, I'm sorry, but, what kind of lead do you use, and where can one purchase it?
 
Thanks.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 10th, 2007, 2:45pm
hi r/c and all,
 
r/c, you asked about what type of lead, well i use lead...just pure lead.  sorry, i shouldn't do that!  the real answer is still lead.  know this, it IS hazardous to your health!  there are many reasons to use it and quite a few for not using it.  plumber's lead and melting pots are now very hard to come by.  those who still want to use it must gather it from scrap dealers, tire stores, or other outlets.  most miniature railroaders just give up and use seement blocks (bruce knows what i meant).  
 
as pockets will point out, the best option is to 'tune' the suspension to where the extra weight isn't needed.  that's the approach we will take in this thread.   once a miniature railroader starts building equipment and not just buying it, they begin to understand how it works.  tuning a suspension is a balancing act.  it should be soft enough for the trucks to read the track, but hard enough to support the rail car and it's cargo with good ride charateristics.
 
btw, a work caboose would be a good choice for a first car.  it would be easier to do and have the added bonus of there being few of them in the hobby.  you might give it some serious thought!
 
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 10th, 2007, 3:25pm

 
   To all interested parties,
 
   That heavy steel center sill that is pictured in reply320 is very important for many reasons. One of the most important is to create a coupler pocket. There are coupler pockets that can be attached to the wooden floor. But when a car in this scale is coupled up in a train, it is not always gentle. There can be quite a bit of shock involved. And a pocket that is fastened to the floor can, and I've seen it happen, be broken right away from the car bottom.
   That steel center sill which George and most of the rest of us install, takes the complete shock of coupling instead of the car body. Nothing worse than haveing a nice car at a meet, and not being able to run it in a train becasue the coupler pockets are broken free of the car.
   Then there is the time when we all get crazy and tie together 90 plus cars in a mega train. With the steel spine in the wooden car, no pulling stress is exerted on the beautiful wooden body of the car.  
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: R/Cpullerdude Posted on: Jan 10th, 2007, 5:17pm
Thanks for the info on the lead.   With the main thing I'd use it for, I really don't have a choice of lead or cement blocks.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 10th, 2007, 7:50pm
hi all,
 
bruce is right in bringing up the topic of the centersill.  this hobby can be rough on rolling stock.  in the photo below, you can see that the centersill is visible and available to take the full impact of a hard couple or accidental impact.  it will also take the abuse being in a long train.
 
in addition of the above, the photo also shows some of the progress i've made in converting from inboard step-units to outboard.  the clamps are holding everything in registration as well as holding pressure on the glue joints and under-bracing.  shortly, the joints will disappear.  the endsills are temporarily in place and won't be permenantly installed until just before delivery.  i'm starting some of the detail pieces that will make the draft-gear stand out a little.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:25pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   To all interested parties,
 
   That heavy steel center sill that is pictured in reply320 is very important for many reasons. One of the most important is to create a coupler pocket. There are coupler pockets that can be attached to the wooden floor. But when a car in this scale is coupled up in a train, it is not always gentle. There can be quite a bit of shock involved. And a pocket that is fastened to the floor can, and I've seen it happen, be broken right away from the car bottom.
   That steel center sill which George and most of the rest of us install, takes the complete shock of coupling instead of the car body. Nothing worse than haveing a nice car at a meet, and not being able to run it in a train becasue the coupler pockets are broken free of the car.
   Then there is the time when we all get crazy and tie together 90 plus cars in a mega train. With the steel spine in the wooden car, no pulling stress is exerted on the beautiful wooden body of the car.  
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 10th, 2007, 8:01pm
hi all,
 
the photo below is a better view of where i was yesterday(left hand side) as compared where i am today(right hand side and previous photo).  i wouldn't want to see this car 're-kitified', that's why we keep harping on having a steel centersill.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 11th, 2007, 7:13pm
hi all,
 
today, i was able to make some progress on the 'b' end draft gear details.  i'll show the photos as soon as the 'a' end is done.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: JMFusco Posted on: Jan 12th, 2007, 12:11pm
Moose,
 
I was looking through the pictures in this thread, and... Man! You do some nice work!
 
Those cabooses are beautiful! Keep up the great craftsmanship!  
 
Joe...  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Posted by: WM734 Posted on: Jan 12th, 2007, 5:22pm
Moose,
 
Couldn't help but chime in here...DANG you do some outstanding work.  I don't believe any company can match the quality of work that you create.  Like Joe said above, the craftmanship on your miniature railroad equipment is phenomenal.  Keep up the great work my friend.
 
-Colin
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Jan 12th, 2007, 6:13pm
Moose,
 
The qualtiy of that cat is AWSOME. you were born to make cars
 
Anthony
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 12th, 2007, 8:33pm
hi all,
 
thanks fo the compliments guys.  i've been doing this for a while.  with each new project,  i try to improve on my knowledge and skills.  everything that i do, you can do.  the projects are simple.  yes, i know, easy for me to say.  look at the western maryland caboose, it's basic shape is still a box.  if you take your time, invest it in good materials and careful planning, you will be rewarded with a nice project when you are done.  
 
ride-on scale projects take time and patience.  that's part of the fun!  they aren't weekend projects (those that make them that way are rewarded with that which looks and operates like a weekend project).  when built and maintained with care, your project will out-live you.  
(Hey bruce, if you've got a good pic of john cassidy's pf&e caboose,  we can show them why.)  john cassidy was/is one of my heroes in the hobby.  he meant some much to us here in florida, he was a live steam pioneer and mentor to many a youngster in the hobby.
 
a lot of people 'buy' equipment and have the pride of ownership, but a builder is rewarded twice over...the joy of building and the pride of watching others enjoying your work as it rolls down the tracks.  it all starts by making a little sawdust.  when you get past the point of 'i think i can', to 'i know i can', you are well on your way to being done!  bruce, myself, pockets, and the others are here to help, our mentors would want it that way.
 
okay, here's a photo of the 'b' end with most of the rough details in place.  the fine details will be added just before the caboose is finished.  will show more of the details later.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 12th, 2007, 8:38pm
hi all,
 
the 'a' end finally got more attention today, here's a look at it now!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 17th, 2007, 7:05pm
hi all,
 
decided to complete most of the underframe fit-up today.  as i mentioned earlier, due to the older trucks (33" scale wheels) i had to add a 5/8" bolster pad to the frame.  that addition necessitated the need for bolster pads to limit side-to-side rocking motion.  that task has been accomplished!  the side-to-side motion has been limited to + or - 1/8" from horizontal lateral for a total of 1/4".  doesn't sound like much, but translated from the vertical center of the car, it works (in conjunction with the truck suspension)!  if your trucks are sprung too stiff, now would be a good time to settle that problem.
 
the bolster pads are also a wear-point and may need replacing in the future.  the pads shown in the picture are bolted on for ease of future replacement.  the cars i build tend to get a lot of running time (hour upon hour).  yours may not, so the wear and replacement time for you may be extended to years...if ever.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 17th, 2007, 7:09pm
hi all,
 
here's a better view.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 17th, 2007, 8:28pm
Moosey,
Good progress!
 
Nit Picks: 1) 33" wheels are the proper size for all, but fairly recent, freight and    caboose wheels.
 
     2) A body bolster has a "squashed pentagon" shape and a center casting that combine to take up the space filled by the ubiquitous stack of washers or, in this case, 5/8" spacer.
 
     3) Try cutting a piece of flattened tin can stock, to fit, and Gorilla Glue or tack (outside the rub radius) it to your side bearings. It will add immeasurably to it's life.
 
Greg - cowering in the corner waiting to be struck - B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 19th, 2007, 8:55pm
hi all...and pockets too!
 
ya just gotta push me, don't cha?!  that's okay, you be drafted for a board-on-board project later this year!
 
for those who don't know, pockets and i know each other very well.  one of the points of modeling that i've absorbed from him is that at some time in the future, our models may be the only point of reference generations to come have of 'ole time' railroading.  if we build them right, our models stand a good chance of out-lasting us.  so, the more detail that you can logically build into a model, the more accurate reference it will be.  for the type of detail he likes to build, 1 1/2" scale is a bit fragile.  he's currently building in 3 3/4" scale as narrow gauge.  quite awesome!  
 
at some point in the near future, i will also build a few projects in the larger scales (same gauge).  it is for that reason, as well as friendship, that you see him pushing for a higher degree of detail and skill development.  like anything else in life, skill development is a journey started by taking one step at a time, one project at a time.  go back to the beginning of this thread and you can see my journey from beginning to now.  this thread is about learning...yours and mine.  it's a journey to be shared, so let's make some sawdust!
 
today, a little more progress was made on the wm caboose.  in the picture below, it's time to get the body ready for paint.  that means that it has to be primed and sealed.  just about all the priming/sealing work will be completed by sunday afternoon.  here in florida, we are about due for a weather change.  to help keep the body dimensionally stable (even plywood changes with humidity), all the exposed surfaces need to be sealed.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
on Jan 17th, 2007, 8:28pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moosey,
Good progress!
 
Nit Picks: 1) 33" wheels are the proper size for all, but fairly recent, freight and         caboose wheels.
 
               2) A body bolster has a "squashed pentagon" shape and a center casting that combine to take up the space filled by the ubiquitous stack of washers or, in this case, 5/8" spacer.
 
               3) Try cutting a piece of flattened tin can stock, to fit, and Gorilla Glue or tack (outside the rub radius) it to your side bearings. It will add immeasurably to it's life.
 
Greg - cowering in the corner waiting to be struck - B.

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 19th, 2007, 9:02pm
hi all,
 
okay, if you think that priming and sealing was all i got done today, check out the roof work.
a little more work on the walk supports, then it will also be primed and painted.
   
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 19th, 2007, 9:07pm
hi all,
 
one last picture for tonight.  here's a hint of how the model will look when finished.  the windows have been torn apart and rebuilt, but there's still some finish work to be done before they can be installed.
  
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 19th, 2007, 11:02pm
And it's about time...I've even left your phone alone so you could get something done!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 22nd, 2007, 9:06pm
hi all,
 
a little more progress tonight!  some of the trim detail have started to make their way to the car body.  the doors jambs are now trimmed and i'm in the process of getting the porch area ready for flooring.  the endsills are also receiving their bolt detail.
 
pictures tomorrow!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 23rd, 2007, 9:35pm
hi all,
 
here's a photo of the door jamb trim and a hint of the endsill/draft gear bolt detail.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 23rd, 2007, 9:43pm
hi all,
 
on the porch beam detail, i had a choice of single beam or multiple (some cabooses started out life as boxcars, the porches were added on) beams.  i chose multple for the endsill bolt pattern interest.  here's a photo of the beam detail.  the bolt detail isn't far off.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 24th, 2007, 1:23am
Damfine work, George, but if you say porch one more time, I'm gonna throw a coupler knuckle at you (1-1/2" scale of course)! Your house has a porch. That caboose has two PLATFORMS.....mumbling and shaking head, "Ya buy 'em books an' send 'em ta school....."
 
Greg
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 26th, 2007, 9:35pm
hi all,
 
here's a photo of the progress as of last night.  the porc...platform flooring is down on the 'a' end, the endsill mounting holes are being filled, and the draft gear bolt detail is underway.  btw, the 'a' end windows have been modified for use and are ready for paint.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
on Jan 24th, 2007, 1:23am, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Damfine work, George, but if you say porch one more time, I'm gonna throw a coupler knuckle at you (1-1/2" scale of course)! Your house has a porch. That caboose has two PLATFORMS.....mumbling and shaking head, "Ya buy 'em books an' send 'em ta school....."
 
Greg

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 26th, 2007, 9:45pm
hi all,
 
here's closer view of the mock-up of the draft gear bolt detail.  still in rough condition and minus the spacer detail, i did promise to show you how i do things.  the copper wire is only a place-holder for the time being.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 28th, 2007, 8:03pm
hi all,
 
starting to close in on most of the roof detail.  here's a look at how the wm caboose looks tonight.  the paint is still too wet to touch, so i'll wait 'til it's cured (the outside temp is lower, so the wait will be longer) to remove the masting tape.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 28th, 2007, 8:07pm
hi all,
 
here's a photo without the cupola in the way.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 28th, 2007, 8:11pm
hi all,
 
and a photo of some of the detail to come.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Jan 28th, 2007, 8:43pm
George, I have been meaning to ask you. How do you attach that special roofing material? And do you paint it black before or after you attach it?  Bobby
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 28th, 2007, 9:54pm
hi bobby,
 
you can do it both ways.  in my case, the roofing material is applied over a wet (primer - like stainkillz)paint, then painted in (make sure the material gets soaked through) on top.  i like the white color to help me find areas that didn't stick as well as it should.  it is easier to come back with a glue like titebond ii.  
 
 
moose the caboose
 
on Jan 28th, 2007, 8:43pm, B+MNW21201 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
George, I have been meaning to ask you. How do you attach that special roofing material? And do you paint it black before or after you attach it?  Bobby

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 29th, 2007, 9:58am
George.
That roofwalk is looking pretty good. I see you went with the four board variation that you were talking about.
 
Obwan wanted to know about building curved roofs. Click this link and scroll down.
 
http://www.setbb.com/wwfmuseum/viewtopic.php?t=215&mforum=wwfmuseum
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 1st, 2007, 9:30pm
hi all,
 
tonight, i'm posting a couple of pictures of the main body painting process.  the weather has been uncooperative, so i'm doing sections of it as time and tempurature allow.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 1st, 2007, 9:33pm
hi all,
 
here's a view of tonight's activity.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 10th, 2007, 9:07pm
hi all,
 
i finally got a good day in the shop!  lots of stuffed happened today.  i wanted to do something different for the grab-irons than what i usually do.  building in 1 1/2 inch scale has it's up's and down's.  for instance, if you build in 2 1/2 inch scale or higher, you 'create' the necessary hardware just as the 1' to 1's do.  it really should work as intended.  in 1 1/2 inch scale, you're too large to be able to use all the 'goody' parts available for the smaller scales, but your detail building techniques are much the same...except larger.  to do what i do, i have to set goals for what i want to accomplish.  today i wanted to get the main body paint completed and ready for detail.  did i get it done?  yes, and no,  it is painted, but there are some areas that still need to be trim painted.  there are a couple of areas that have to be 'spot' painted to sharpen the total job.  here's a view of today's activity.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 10th, 2007, 9:53pm
hi all,
 
  as i said above, i wanted to do something different for the grab-irons than what i usually do.  the usual technique most people use is to bend 1/8 inch brass welding rod into the desired shape of grab-irons, platform rails and coupler-cut bar(if applied, most don't).  personally, i like using 1/8 inch brass rod for platform rails (for their sturdiness), but prefer 1/16 inch and 3/32 inch rod for grab-irons and other safety appliances.  for those items that are protected (from clumsy real people), i like using 1/16 inch rod.  why? because even though the car is scale, your visual vantage point is constantly changing.  while 1/16 inch rod doesn't scale out to the usual 3/4 inch grab-iron, it looks better than 3/32 inch rod when both are painted.  it's the visual cueing again, it may be wrong, but your eyes think it's right.  again, that's the up's and down's of building in 1 1/2 inch scale .  as you go to larger scales, it makes damn good sense to build more to operation like the 1 to 1's.  
 
there's something to be said for building 'museum' detail quality,  for generations to come (yes, your models will generally outlast you), your model may be the only example in existence of what the 1 to 1's did.  once you start building, hopefully you will continue to develop your skills to do more and more detailed work.  citing the rough handling most equipment gets in the hobby, most people stop at a rudimentary level of detailing or rely on commercially available detail parts (most are out of scale or are not used universally by all the railroads).  for myself, i'd like to continue to challenging my work skills to create better levels of detail than i've done previously.  
 
okay, enough palaver, here's a picture of how i made some of my grab-irons.  the 1/16 inch brass rod doesn't like being bent to 90 degrees, so it was heated to just before a cherry red then quinched.  it was then bent into the shape i needed and the ends re-heated prior to being flattened.  with 4 grab-irons shaped and the ends drilled, i 'pointed' the ends of 8 pieces of 1/16x3/4 inch rod and placed them in a jig.  the grab-irons were set into place and soldered.  practice makes prefect, the picture is of one of my rejects.
  
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 10th, 2007, 9:58pm
hi all,
 
here's picture of the completed grab-irons in paint.  more details coming tomorrow!
    
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 11th, 2007, 8:26am
Very, very nice. Damfine work, my friend.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 11th, 2007, 8:30pm
hi all,
 
today was a good day in the shop.  most of the paint issues were taken care of, but there's still some touch up items left on the list.  those will have to wait until the new paint surfaces have cured.  most of the roof construction is complete with minor details to come.  i'm about half way on the grab-iron details and have a fair start on the platform railings.  here's a picture of where it's at tonight...almost there!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 11th, 2007, 8:34pm
hi all,
 
speaking of roof details, here's how it looks now.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 11th, 2007, 8:43pm
hi all,
 
i've made and painted all the corner grab-irons, but still have more to go.  there are eight more just guarding the platform windows and all most as many on the roof.  here's how 2 of them turned out.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Feb 11th, 2007, 10:25pm
George, you are setting new standards with every car you build. Very nice work. It is an ecouragement to all of us that want a fine detailed car but are not very proficient with welding that such results can be achieved in wood. Thanks and keep up the great work.  
 
Bobby
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Feb 12th, 2007, 6:17pm
AWSOME AWSOME pics. That caboose looks great
 
Anthony
Posted by: rdgtrainman Posted on: Feb 12th, 2007, 7:07pm
Beautiful work Moose....keep it up!!!  One car I would love to see modeled in 1.5" scale that is rare is the Heinz Pickle Car.
 
http://www.westerfield.biz/it160008.jpg
 
Steve
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Feb 12th, 2007, 8:33pm

 
   Steve,
 
   I know you might find this hard to believe but that car has been modeled and Moose and I both knew the "gentleman live steamer" that owned it. The man was  
Mr. John Cassady, and the car was given to him as a gift from a very accomplished modeler in 1.5 scale back in the early seventys. In 2003, I saw the pickle car still in his shop after his passing when I purchased his only red caboose and one of his gons from his son.
 
   This is an all wood car. John never ran it for fear of damageing it some how. I'm sure George T. will remember it.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 12th, 2007, 9:16pm
hi all,
 
bruce, i'd almost forgotten about that car!  thank you for reminding me!  for a long time, i wondered what happened to that car and even now hope that his family kept it as a treasured momento.  i'd hate to find that someone got the car only for parts or profit (it happens doesn't it bruce).  i'm not sure, but the name norm gacy comes to mind as the builder.  there were many of the 'old' folks in the hobby that just built the most exquisite equipment, my appologies if i've named the wrong builder, but that car, so delicately built.....was to drool over!
 
steve, why don't you build it?  pennsylvania produced a lot of pickles, it would be a natural for the p.l.s. to have a complete pickle train!  man, i can't wait to see you get started!  there's enough info in this thread alone to get you through the early construction phases, the rest is just using your research and imagination.  how about it!
 
to all, many thanks for your compliments and visits to this thread.  it means alot to hear of projects contemplated and under-taken because of what you read here on railfan.   there maybe other forums to check out in your journey in the live steam hobby, but we thank you for making us your first stop!
 
by the middle of next week, the wm caboose will be finished.  so, what will the next project be?  i guess you'll have to keep checking here to find out!
 
 
moose the caboose
 
on Feb 12th, 2007, 8:33pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   Steve,
 
   I know you might find this hard to believe but that car has been modeled and Moose and I both knew the "gentleman live steamer" that owned it. The man was  
Mr. John Cassady, and the car was given to him as a gift from a very accomplished modeler in 1.5 scale back in the early seventys. In 2003, I saw the pickle car still in his shop after his passing when I purchased his only red caboose and one of his gons from his son.
 
   This is an all wood car. John never ran it for fear of damageing it some how. I'm sure George T. will remember it.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce

Posted by: rdgtrainman Posted on: Feb 12th, 2007, 10:05pm
Unfortunately, State Farm, OPEC, Amazon.com (school books), and College have first dibs on my money before it goes to the live steam hobby.  I also have two other hobbies that eat up an equal amount of money along with live steam.  The one downside of going out to Train Mountain was all the ideas I got from the equipment I saw out there.  I've had the pickle car in mind for a few years now.
 
The first project is to get my little weed burner (a.k.a. the 0-4-0) running for this season.  Then I have two sets of journals and pedistals to build two 1" scale bobber cabooses.  I might have a few potential buyers for my 1" steamer, so if that sells, I'm going to start an Allen Mogul.  I do first want to scratchbuild a few 1.5" cars.  We have two gentleman at PLS that have a 1.5" 4-4-0 that only have a flat car and a bobber caboose, so I offered to build cars that they are welcome to pull around.
 
Moose, do you have any sources for plans of a wooden Northeastern caboose that were built during the war?  It is very similar to the WM caboose that you featured on here.  I am a die hard Reading RR fan and I would love to build one in 1.5".
 
Keep up the good work on here Bruce, Moose, and any of the "live steamers" that I failed to mention.
 
Steve
 
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Feb 12th, 2007, 10:15pm
Steve, concerning your pickle car, I seem to remember that Kalmbach (Model Railroader) had a book called "Freight Cars That You Can Build" or something like that, that had plans for such a car with variations on that theme as some were wood and some steel. That may be a good place to start your research.  
 
Bobby
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 12th, 2007, 10:22pm
Bobby,
You are correct. I had that book, but sent it to my oldest son to try and motivate him beyond "shake the box" kits. I was in a hobby shop a couple of years ago and the book was still available.
 
See ya soonly,
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 13th, 2007, 10:54pm
hi all,
 
steve: bobby and greg are both correct in suggesting that you look to the smaller scale model publications, they're chocked full of future project data.  most people like the big brand-name cars, i like regional favorites.  to find those, check out your local library's geneology section.  a lot of families in your area 'publish' their findings including old photographs.  you'll be amazed at what turns up when you do that.  if your local library is a library of congress depository...even better, a lot of local history winds up there.  as greg knows, i troll libraries all over the country.  you never know what you'll find!
 
on to the wm caboose!  for the last 2 nights, i've been cutting and shaping brass for grab-irons and ladders.  tonight, i was able to bring the ladders to a semi-finished point to where i could mock them up on the caboose.  the ladders were made from 1/8 inch square brass tube and 1/16 inch brass rod.  the pieces were de-burred, cleaned, and fluxed prior to soldering.  there's still some solder clean-up, but here's how the caboose looks tonight.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 13th, 2007, 11:14pm
hi all,
 
i should mention that the roof ladder 'hoops' were heated to just before cherry-red and quinched before bending.  as i have learned from greg and others, brass materials 'work' harden very quickly.  if you feel a change in the pressure needed to carefully...slowly bend your work-piece, stop immediately and re-heat.  to not do that means it will either break or bend in ways you don't want it to.  the ladder 'hoops' were re-heated several times to keep things going the way i wanted them to.  the ladder 'hoops' were made of the same 1/8 inch square brass tube.  square tube doesn't like being bent into a circle.  it wants to roll into a spiral.  slow, steady bending pressure around a solid form with several re-heats were required to keep everything  square.
 
here's another view of how the ladders look when mocked up.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Feb 14th, 2007, 7:08pm
nice pics, the caboose looks AWSOME
 
Anthony
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 14th, 2007, 7:09pm
Nice looking brass work, Moosey.
 
All:  I want to do a little myth busting. Railroad modeling can be as expensive or inexpensive as your imagineering ability can make it. If you want to build a pickle car, for example, look at (study) every piece of that car. What is there that you absolutely can't produce yourself? Wheels? Scrounge some 3/4" aluminum plate and turn it into disks with a sweat pump (hacksaw). Everybody, in the hobby, knows someone with a lathe and us old guys love to help newbees. Ladders and grabirons? Ol' George just showed you how. Trucks? Pick a prototype that used arch-bars and bend them up. I just recently convinced Moose that it can be done. I've made my own in five scales and and seven gauges. Yes, your first efforts will look like crap. It's called paying your dues. I'm not a machinist. Those who are merciful refer to what I do as whitling in metal. I still get it done. Mostly, it works as intended.
 
Do a little dumpster diving. Old office machines (printers, copy machines, folders and such) are full of shafts, bearings and other usefull stuff. Quit looking at something for what it is. Look at it for what it can be. What useful shapes are hiding in that casting.
 
Don't whine, to me about being too broke to participate. I'm a Cancer patient, retired on a fixed, disability income. Hell, I have to save up to buy drill bits, but I do it. I want it bad enough.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 15th, 2007, 9:58pm
hi all,
 
had a lot to do after work, so not so much time in the shop tonight.  i try to get something crossed off the list of to-do items every night.  tonight, i got enough 1/8 inch square brass tubing drilled to make 2 more sets of ladders (the commissary car and bobber caboose).  the trip to the hardware store (bruce's favorite place...besides working in his shop or working in the railroad.  ya never know what ya'll find in an old fashioned hardware store!) netted a handfull of #3 stainless steel bolts and flat washers.  here's a photo of how they were put to use.  i still have to make some square nuts for the other end, then that task will be crossed off the list.  the slotted bolt heads were snipped off the shank and the new parts installed on the draft gear.  see what ya think?!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 15th, 2007, 10:34pm
Why, oh why, can I envision someone, in the not too murky future, applying a wrench to those nuts.  It goes something like this: Joe Stacktalk has his head in the firebox or is distracted by the eight carloads of "cattle" behind him, and gently "kisses" this hack with his 1500# Mikado. Not bad, but the gal needs some love. Back in the steaming bay the experts gather 'round....
 
Good job, George. It's starting to look (like a) real crummy.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: rdgtrainman Posted on: Feb 15th, 2007, 10:54pm
Might I add that a good place to find stuff to build live steam stuff are the swap tables if you belong to a live steam club.  Someone always has stuff they dig out of their basement/shop.  I found 2 sets of cast axle boxes and matching pedestals to build the running gear for two 1" scale bobber cabooses for $20 bucks.  All I need to do now is make some wheelsets, axles, frame, and the wood and I have two cabooses.
 
Another good place to find stuff for building anything in live steam is Cabin Fever in York, PA in January.  They have metal dealers there that have anything you could want and also the abundance of stuff at the swap tables.  Most of the stuff comes from basement/shop cleanouts and estate settlements along.  Some stuff also comes from guys bringing stuff they have laying around.  My buddy made 75 bucks from stuff he had laying around, so it more than paid to drive out there from where we are at.
 
Also, I am looking for some plans for both of these engines.  See the link to my other post.
 
http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=SteamGeneral;action=display;num=1171597027;start=0
 
If anyone has any sources for these, please let me know.  Thanks.
 
Also, thanks for the Kalmbach book source.  I have their Cyclopedia of Steam Locomotives and it is an interesting read.
 
Steve
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 16th, 2007, 11:39pm
hi all,
 
tonight, the 'a' end is closer to being finished.  the ladder needs only pins installed on the roof deck, bolts going through the fascia and endsill.  the brake-wheel has been cut, soldered, and fitted.  the 2 railing systems that make up the platform area have been assembled and will be cleaned up for paint (hopefully this weekend...may have to shoot from a room temp can outside and make a dash to a warmer drying area).  here's a look at it now!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 16th, 2007, 11:55pm
hi all,
 
the brake wheel assembly was done as i've done it in the past.  since i use plastic brake wheels created by j & r railcars, i've found a way to modify them for my use.  as they are sent to me, the brake wheels are supposed to be set up on a 1/8 inch rod.  well, i use a 1/8 inch brass tube soldered to the railing for support, let's see...a 1/8 inch brass rod won't fit into a 1/8 inch brass tube.  so, i use a 3/32 brass rod with a 1/4 long piece of 1/8 brass tube soldered 3/8 inch from the end.  this does 2 things, it gives support to the brake wheel (it's a bushing) and provides a bearing surface so the brake wheel doesn't come in contact with the railing.  with the brake wheel cemented to the upper limit of the 1/8 inch brass tube, a piece of 1/16 inch strip plastic was cut, drilled, and shaped as a square nut to hold the brake wheel on.  here's a photo to show how it turned out.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Feb 17th, 2007, 9:55am
really nice work moose. that caboose looks great
 
Anthony
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 18th, 2007, 7:12pm
hi all,
 
anthony - thanks for the compliment!  i hope someday that i'll get a chance to visit you at your 'home' track.  i'll latched onto a 4-track trailer so someday soon, i'll be visitin' around like bruce does!
 
to all - while the weather today was crappy to say the least, i was able to make all 4 step-units and apply the first coat of paint.  with my shop supplies re-newed, i was able to finish the last platform railing-ladder combination.  it's also been painted with it's first coat.  yes, the push is on!  4 of the windows need trim pieces made and then the whole assemblies need to be painted.  then there's the matter of those 12 grab-irons (4 are already pre-formed but need flattening, drilling, and painting) that still have to be made.  whew! that's a lot...did i also mention that the trim paint needs to go on and the details get installed permanently?
 
not to worry (let me do alot of that), the wm caboose will be going south...shortly!  some additional details may be finally finished next weekend for delivery on tuesday.
 
what a rush!  i'll post some more pictures before wednesday.
 
moose the  caboose
 
 
 
on Feb 17th, 2007, 9:55am, anthonyd_SRR wrote:       (Click here for original message)
really nice work moose. that caboose looks great
 
Anthony

Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Feb 18th, 2007, 10:39pm
I'm lookin forward to that moose
 
Anthony
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Feb 21st, 2007, 7:26pm
Look'in Good.  What are you going to do with the inside?  Is it going to be storage, detailed, batteries, supplies?  Just wondering.  Nice Work.
Posted by: Cornwall_RR Posted on: Feb 27th, 2007, 11:43am
Pockets,
 
Are those photos you posted several pages back of the open air cars for the Mount Gretna Narrow Gauge?  I found this not too long ago when I was going through the Cornwall Iron Furance archives.  It is a copy of the drawings for the MGNG's passenger cars.  I can give you a better scan once I can get to my home scanner.
 
-Mark
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 27th, 2007, 1:52pm
hi all,
 
the wm and ej&e cabooses  travelled to the bcrr this past week with pockets and me!  i got some great compliments and helpful comments from some very accomplished modelers and live steamers.  as i suspected would happen, i learned of some new techniques from them and was able to assist others in their pursuit of car-building.  we had a blast with the bcrr crew and families!  many thanks to bruce, bobby, ron, and the rest for assisting pete make this dream railroad the premier road in florida and one to which all others will look to for inspiration!   ...and the dream isn't complete yet!  what the bcrr thread for more developments!
 
dean, welcome the live steam threads!  glad to have you here.  to answer your question about the interiors of the cars that i build.  for the most part, the cars are left open for their new owners to decide.  the wm caboose is no different, it will soon be in the hands of it's owner (today)!  within this year, there will be one project that will have a full interior.  it will also appear in a national publication.  like many who are reading these posts, i'm a live steamer at the beginning of converting from 'modern' motive power to that of the living, breathing live steam machinery of the 19th century.  i'm in the process of gathering machinery, parts, and castings for my steamer, one railcar at a time!
 
mark!  you'll find that you've just got one of the warmest welcomes from any of us by causing pockets' jaw to slam to the floor with your post of mt gretna equipment!!!!!  please continue to post anything mt gretna on these pages!  if you can't reach pockets, please forward to me and i'll see that he gets them!   wonderful...wonderful stuff!   on behalf of pockets...WOW!
 
to all:
 
i know i haven't posted the latest pictures of the wm caboose...sorry, i've been in an absolute rush!  i'll take some pictures at the track today and tomorrow.  they will be posted soon!
 
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Feb 27th, 2007, 11:43am, Cornwall_RR wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Pockets,
 
Are those photos you posted several pages back of the open air cars for the Mount Gretna Narrow Gauge?  I found this not too long ago when I was going through the Cornwall Iron Furance archives.  It is a copy of the drawings for the MGNG's passenger cars.  I can give you a better scan once I can get to my home scanner.
 
-Mark

Posted by: Cornwall_RR Posted on: Feb 27th, 2007, 5:48pm
I am glad to help you out Pockets.  Since I cannot get to a scanner right now I took some close ups of the previously posted and left the photos big to try to preserve the detail.  Enjoy!
 
-Mark
Posted by: Cornwall_RR Posted on: Feb 27th, 2007, 5:49pm
End detail.
Posted by: Cornwall_RR Posted on: Feb 27th, 2007, 5:50pm
Interior detail.
Posted by: Cornwall_RR Posted on: Feb 27th, 2007, 5:56pm
I have seen this photo of MGNG number 11 all over the place so I will post it hear.  I have even seen on Ebay too so there must be a bunch of copies out there.  Anyway this is a shot of number 11 by Baldwin and was probably taken on the first day the MGNG was open - July 4, 1889.  The engine is sitting on the turntable outside of the Mount Gretna engine house.
 
-Mark
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 27th, 2007, 7:22pm
Omigawd!!! Mark, this stuff is pure unobtanium! I was asked, recently, if I was going to model the open coaches and had to reply in the negative. A few hazy photos and an HO scale drawing are all I've been able to find and the drawing didn't have enough data to build, accurately, from. This is a Godsend. I have the photo, but, until now, not in a format that would tolerate serious enlargement.
 
George was right. It took a few minutes to pick my chin off the desk. Watch you PM as I will be contacting you, there.
 
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 14th, 2007, 8:28pm
hi all,
 
yes, i know it has been a little while since i posted here.  i've been taking a lurkers' vacation and getting a few other projects caught up with.  within the next couple of weeks, the wm and bobber cabooses will be back in the shop for final detailing work.  when they have exited the shop for their respective homes, there's a certain erie caboose that needs some tlc.  stay tuned!  the fun is about to begin again!
 
til' then, here's a taste of the level of model-building i found at the un-meet'07' held by the 'ungroup' at the bcrr.  tip-o-the-hat for one of the most relaxing meets ever!  if ever there was a theme to a gathering, this one had to be 'meet the builders'!  i learned something from everybody i met and i think they learned something from me.  many, many thanks to pete, his family, bruce, bobby, ray, and all the others who pulled together to make the first ever bcrr 'unmeet07' the most enjoyable in many a year!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 14th, 2007, 8:35pm
hi all,
 
here's one of the neatest exhibits of 'steam' gear at the 'unmeet07'.  stationary and marine steam!
 
and yes, if you'll dig through some of the older issues of live steam magazine, you'll find some of this neat stuff as a build-project!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 14th, 2007, 8:46pm
hi all,
 
now, here's a better look at 'sea grape'.  who can name the builder!?  an absolutely wonderful man to talk to about both steam and marine vessels!  hint, he built 'sea grape' for an article in live steam magazine, so take a moment and look him up!  his passion for steam will set you afire.  so will the amount of work and detail he put into 'sea grape'. there's not a photo that will do his work justice.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Mar 15th, 2007, 6:14pm
sea grape looks really cool !!!!!!
 
 
Anthony
Posted by: Biscuit Posted on: Mar 15th, 2007, 7:41pm
Good to see Dan Post is still around, I remember the Sea Grape running at our old club track in Lakeland, I even got a chance to take it around the pond.
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Mar 15th, 2007, 8:51pm
nice car building, really is.    
 
THAT SEA GRAPE
Wow, thats a tiny boat, how fast does that go, what steam HP engine is in that.  My drafting teacher wanted some kids to build a flat bottom steam boat double paddle wheeler, the project got scraped when his wife got cancer.  But we now are working on his pacific 5" steamer.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 20th, 2007, 9:56pm
hi all,
 
dg: not sure about the answers to 'sea grape.'  try reaching dan post in your area.  he is an absolute master at nautical steam!
 
 
to all:  it's funny to report, but two of my 'children' are back in the shop this week for some final detail work.  feels kindda like having your kids bring the grandkids by for a visit!  hmmm, i'll have to watch out for that.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Mar 15th, 2007, 8:51pm, dgmarklin wrote:       (Click here for original message)
nice car building, really is.    
 
THAT SEA GRAPE
Wow, thats a tiny boat, how fast does that go, what steam HP engine is in that.  

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 20th, 2007, 10:08pm
hi all,
 
biscuit: it's nice to have you here!  welcome to the live steam threads here on the railfan net!
 
 
to all:  the wm caboose was delivered during the fls meet at largo after it's debut at the bcrr in february.   lots of nice comments on the striking paint scheme and detail.  the only hitch during the time it was there?  2 hours after delivery, one of the ladder hoops went missing and has yet to be found.  time to make another one.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 9:38am

 
   Oh, man. George, there was a lot of foot traffic in that area for four days. I hate to see a piece like that go missing. I looked in the gravel ballast to see if I could find the loop. No luck. And now, we've been working in that same area extending the tracks out of the car barn. No tellin where the heck that got to.
   Knowing the quality people that were there, I'm sure it was an oversight.
 
   BTW, what the heck are you doing with a certain old Erie caboose. Or should I not ask!!
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 11:38am
Bruce,
I'm sure that George will reply, but to ease your mind, the part "went missing" at Largo...
 
Greg B.
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 6:07pm
Lookin forward to seeing the detail work on the caboose
 
Anthony
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 9:05pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  pockets is quite right, it made the journey to and from....during....the 'unmeet' of '07 with no difficulties.  it was at the other meet that the ladder hoop went missing.
 
the meet officials and i are at a loss to explain why.  not many builders left to carry on at the moment.
 
on to happier news, my new wheels are in town and will soon travel to meet their axles and other parts.  what it will be will be revealed at some point in the future.  for now, bruce is pretty close to needing some 'ole time' 33" wheels for his soon to be arch bar trucks.  i guess when they need axles, he'll see 'um!
 
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Mar 23rd, 2007, 7:35pm
Its sad to hear that a piece of those beautiful cabooses went missing.  Good looking cars as always!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 25th, 2007, 8:44pm
hi all,
 
it felt good to get back into the shop today and get started on a couple of projects that will see the bobber and the wm cabooses back to their adopted railroad.
 
i had a couple of paint issues to deal with on the bobber caboose, seems that the outer 'pretty' layer of the plywood was shaved off the log against the grain.  when this happens, it wants to get 'fuzzy' and stick out.  it didn't matter how much sealer i used...it just did it.   part of the problem was the amount of moisture in the air when i was working with it combined with the fact that i didn't let the plywood 'rest' and equalize to the same humidity as my shop.  so what happened?  even though the surface was smooth and sealed, when the color coat was applied it still fuzzed up.  
 
this caboose had to go see it's owner before the 72 hours paint cure time was up.  in truth, the paint needed longer to complete set up.   last week, i was able to retrieve the bobber caboose and allow it to settle in on the build table.  today, i started the sanding and smoothing process that will allow me to re-paint and install the last bits of detail.  sanding started with 120 grit and will finish with 220 grit.  the final burnishing after re-painting will be done with steel wool.  here's a look at it now.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 25th, 2007, 8:59pm
hi all,
 
i knew that i would have to set up my jigs for making ladders, but i didn't think that it would be for replacing missing pieces...especially only 2 hours after delivery.  while disappointing to say the least, i got the chance today to recreate one of the ladder hoops for the wm caboose.  over this next week, i'll make 6 more complete ladder sets.  working with brass is fun, but tedious at times.  here's a picture of the new ladder hoop tonight after a coat of paint was applied.  it will get one or two more over the course of the next week and a half.  think it will pass for the one that's missing?
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Mar 26th, 2007, 3:46pm
I bet it will Moose,
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 28th, 2007, 9:17pm
hi all,
 
dg: thanks for the vote!
 
all:  brass work continues this week with building of more ladders.  will show some more progress soon!
 
found a picture to make a certain somebody smile...who is it!
(yeah, i know it should go in the bcrr thread, but what the hay...see all the nice rail cars behind him?!)
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Mar 28th, 2007, 10:53pm

 
   Well, well, well, Greg looks right at home at the throttle of "ole7597" if I do say so myself. We gotta do that again soon. Great fun!!
 
   Whos that short, old guy with the white hair sticking out from the engineers cap and the Seminole Gulf shirt on?? OH, damn, thats me.  
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Mar 28th, 2007, 11:40pm
Hey Bruce,
 
Sometimes you surprise even me. That fella is a mature individual with platinum blonde hair, just like me. My Engineer's cap has a large PRR keystone on the front of it.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Mar 29th, 2007, 6:34am
.....and the student engineer is thinking, " Bruce's engine, Pete's cars and caboose and Ben's coaches.... A merciful God will let me die in the wreck!"
 
Thanks, again, Bruce , for a day that I will cherish.
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 30th, 2007, 10:01pm
hi all,
 
the brass-work continues, here's a view of 2 of the ladder sets that are now together.  there's some additional pieces to be soldered on, but that will come this weekend.  just think, 4 more sets and i'll have all the ladders i need this year?!!  er, maybe i ought to invest in a metals company.....
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Mar 31st, 2007, 10:02pm
looking good moose. Great work  
 
Anthony
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Apr 1st, 2007, 9:27pm
Nice ladders, I am going to have a bunch of handrails to make soon.    
 
Speaking of,  
brass and what kind of solder?
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2007, 7:35pm
hi all,
 
dg: sorry for the long absence, my dissertation on the other thread took longer that i thought.  the ladder sides are k&s 1/8" square brass tubing and the ladder rungs are 1/16" brass rods.  as for solder, i've tried several types, all silver solders or silver-bearing solders.  each type requires specific heat and fluxes.  pockets and/or bruce can speak to the specific needs and uses.  for most of my small detail work, i use a 2% silver-bearing solder sold at my local r/c hobby shop for hardened electrical connections.  used in combination with the water-soluable flux gel available from most plumbing supply houses, i have what works for me at the moment.  all things are subject to learning better ways!  the regular lead/tin electrical solders are too fragile for the r/c hobby applications or mine for that matter.  i'm still learning my way around the metal stuff, so stay tuned!
 
to all:  thanks for your kind comments on the projects at hand!
 
 
moose the caboose
 
on Apr 1st, 2007, 9:27pm, dgmarklin wrote:       (Click here for original message)
 
 
Speaking of,  
brass and what kind of solder?

Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2007, 8:34pm
I guess I need to start taking notes on this stuff for my massive 2" binder for my locomotive.  My plans are to do the handrails out of brass.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 15th, 2007, 7:11pm
hi all,
 
i haven't posted very much here in a couple of weeks, but work has been ongoing in the shop.
 
here's a pic of alex's bobber caboose with the windows installed...makes a difference doesn't it?!  there's more to go, but a week or two's work will see an even bigger difference.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 15th, 2007, 7:22pm
hi all,
 
here's another pic of alex's bobber caboose showing the fit-up work for the ladders.  the step-units have been installed and the grab-irons will be...shortly!  when the ladders are completely installed, the next project is a pair of lamps that will be mounted as shown in some of the earlier photos.  if you run in the 'hernia' gauge, you should also have lights available on your caboose for night running or through tunnels.  most people buy the little blinky bicycle lights, but it looks nicer if the lights are designed into the car.  the most common way?  caboose marker lanterns, but i want to back date this car to use kerosene or coal oil lanterns fore & aft of the cupola.
 
stay tuned!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 15th, 2007, 7:26pm
hi all,
 
this picture was taken from another angle.  
stay tuned!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Apr 16th, 2007, 4:03pm
It’s looking really nice moose. Thanks for posting those pictures
 
Anthony
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Apr 16th, 2007, 9:54pm
Lookin good Moose.  
 
Have you guys seen those railcars on Discoverlivesteam.com?  Those are pretty good lookin too!  
 
Moose, have you ever taken some realistic shots with some of your railcars for the discoverlivesteam.com photo contest.  You would place WAY UP THERE on the list!!!
 
 
Dean the Bean
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 22nd, 2007, 8:51am
hi all,
 
dg: maybe i'll submit some photos someday, but i'm having too much fun building right now!  thanks for your vote of confidence.
 
all:  here of late, i've been messin' around with shim brass.  going to be pickling alex's brass ladders before painting, so in the interim i'm trying my hand at making ole time caboose lanterns.  when i began this thread, i promised to show the path my journey in the hobby takes.  working with brass isn't easy...but its not that hard either.  it takes time, effort, planning, careful layout, and not cutting or burning your fingers.  
 
i was lucky enough to be able to visit that old tin-knocker pockets, yesterday.  i learned a lot!  thanks, pockets, for your time and enthusiasm!  i found that the project example i showed him was good, but he taught me several ways to eliminate the total number of pieces needed to build it. in my first try (and there will be alot more), i didn't do too bad, but there are 6 pieces of brass in construction that you see.  each separate piece needs to be soldered in place adding to the concern that new heat will disrupt a previously completed seam.  what i learned from pockets was to think of folding paper shapes like dolls or origami.  using a combination of small metal brake and certain hand tools, i could fold my way to a better looking and functioning lantern.  (i'll scan in and post his example soon) here's a photo of what i've been doing.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the sleepy
 
on Apr 16th, 2007, 9:54pm, dgmarklin wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Lookin good Moose.  
 
Have you guys seen those railcars on Discoverlivesteam.com?  Those are pretty good lookin too!  
 
Moose, have you ever taken some realistic shots with some of your railcars for the discoverlivesteam.com photo contest.  You would place WAY UP THERE on the list!!!
 
 
Dean the Bean

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 22nd, 2007, 9:10am
hi all,
 
here's a side view.  many would consider my efforts rough and crude...they are.  there's a learning curve to everything including brass-work.  it's not going to look great until the mind, the hands, and the tools begin working together.  i'm showing you these images because i'm proud of the learning steps i'm making and would encourage you to try it for yourself if you haven't.  you won't know what you can accomplish until you try.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the sleepy
 
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Apr 22nd, 2007, 6:54pm
That’s really cool moose.  I'm looking forward to seeing the light that will go inside it. I hope to eventualy make my own light for one of my lionel engines.
 
Anthony
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2007, 9:45am
Anthony,
I was going to let this pass, but since George has implicated me, I feel compelled to post a clarification. If you are complimenting the finished parts of the caboose, as a whole, I couldn't agree more.  
 
If you are referring to the lamps, I have to differ. Ol' Moosey has the testicular fortitude to lay his entire learning curve on the table. If you take the number 100,000 as George's metalworking destination, these first efforts are number 1. They were done by a man who has the honesty, with himself, to admit that they are pushing the limit of his tools and skill level. What he has accomplished is to learn enough from them to fill a long chapter in a very thick book. He will tool up and practice. Stick around and watch his progress.
 
Metal forming (tin knocking) complex shapes is where science and art meet the metal. There is a whole range of skills and knowledge, every bit as demanding as those found in the machine shop. This is why you see locomotive builders using castings for steam and sand domes and headlights. Why do guys stick the guts from a flashlight in their headlight?  Because it's a whole other world of skills to spin or hammer form a proper parabolic reflector.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2007, 11:46am
Ouch! I think someone has struck a nerve.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Apr 24th, 2007, 10:29pm
Not really, Bobby, and it wasn't intended to sound that way. I was trying to explain that these are the first, shakey steps of someone who will soon be a marathon runner. Not many of the hobby's (Gawd, I hate that word. When you pull your first throttle, on a steam locomotive, it ceases to be a hobby. It's a lifestyle and an addiction.) gurus would post their less than perfect experiments on a global access forum.
 
My further elaboration was an effort to explain the skills that George has undertaken to learn. My possession of a lathe and mill do not, and probably never will, make me a machinist. What I do with these machines has been mercifully termed whittling in metal. However, I am a fair hand at fabrication and metal forming. I have been building brass models for more than thirty years. I owned my own prototyping and fabrication business and have starched and pressed the occasional formula car. This does not make me an expert. At best, I would be classified as a gifted amature. It does qualify me to state that the skills George is learning are entirely different from the machine tool skills. Not superior and not inferior. Just different. Based on our conversation, they are some of the same skills you will be employing when you start that carbody.
 
I apologise to anyone who took offense at the tone of my reply to Anthony. It was not my intent to come across as a crusty ol' fart.
 
BTW: Don't tell Moose, but at last count I had thirty-eight hammers and mallets of different sizes, shapes and materials, just for forming metal......
 
Greg B.
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Apr 26th, 2007, 7:35pm
Yup, I have pretty much no tools at my house so I use the schools tools for the work I need to do.  And all their machines.  We got 3 workshop classrooms, in the one that isnt really even used, besides when i use it, there are 3 lathes, 2 drill press, 2 chop saws, 3 belt sanders, 1 router table, 1 table saw, refrigerator, and a coffee pot.  Plus 3 cabinets of hand tools (routers, sanders, hammers, etc.)
 
And that is the SMALL wood work shop.  The one on the end is about 3 times bigger in square feet and has 2 or 3 mills, and about of metal working stuff, including a alumn. foundry area.  
 
Our drafting class, the one I am really in since I am not in shop, has a vynal cutter, a 45W laser, 3 plotters, 2 printers, and about 35 computers.  To say the least, its wonderful!
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Apr 26th, 2007, 8:09pm
Hi,
 
Do you mean Vinyl This would be as in PVC, PolyVinylChloride.
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Apr 27th, 2007, 7:22am
Hey Pennsy:
 
Kinda, I think, as in vinyal stickers, really thin sticky stuff, like bumper stickers.  We do logo's, signs, decals, etc. with it.  I can't spell right.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 29th, 2007, 8:17pm
hi all,
 
it's been a busy day in the shop.  i've been slowly installing more lighting fixtures over the last several weekends.  i was able to make the home run for the wiring of one of the fixtures today...let there be more light!  the other 2 fixtures will be lit up next weekend.
 
as the detail work gets finer, the need for more light climbs (or is it that my eyes are getting older).  i've needed more light for some time now, oh well, i'm finally getting it done.
 
today was also a good day to paint some of the brass-work for both the bobber caboose and the wm caboose.  i'll have pictures as soon as they are completed.  i didn't get everything done that i wanted tom but enough that i'm satified.  'til next time!
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 5th, 2007, 11:54am
hi all,
 
it's been a busy in the shop.  over the last few weekends, i've installed 3 of the 5 lighting fixtures that i needed.  the wiring runs have been made for the 3 fixtures that have made it into the air.  all that's left is making connections in a junction box and wiring 2 switches and re-wiring 2 outlets.  with 2 of the lighting fixtures now up and running...it's like daylight in the shop!  the last 2 fixtures will be movable miniature spotlights for close detail work.  i haven't found them yet and may have to make them.
 
today, i also put the bobber caboose back together (minus the lanterns) and will be returning it to alex.  it will remain with him until i'm ready to install the lanterns, a toolbox, and an electrical system (my cabooses may be in the collections of others, but i still tinker with them).   here's a picture of today's work.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 5th, 2007, 12:00pm
hi all,
 
here's another view.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 5th, 2007, 12:03pm
hi all,
 
and another.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 5th, 2007, 12:15pm
hi all,
 
for the benefit of those who haven't been following the saga of the wm caboose, it was delivered to it's home railroad during the winter meets here in florida.  2 hours after delivery, one of the ladder hoops went awol.  there have been those who thought that a third ladder hoop wouldn't match the other 2 (they're all handmade).  here's a picture of the newly completed ladder hoop with it's mate.  what do you think!?!!
 
it still needs 6 window shades, 8 window grab-irons, and 2 doors...not too much to do, i don't think!  after that, there's are erie waiting in the wings for a much deserved 'rehab'.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 5th, 2007, 1:23pm
Whew! That was a dry spell!
 
Looking real nice, Moosmeister. Alex ought to be tickled plum silly.
 
Greg B
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: May 6th, 2007, 9:39pm
Greg, if he isn't tickled plum silly at the sight of that caboose, then check his pulse!
 
Very nice work as usual George!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 7th, 2007, 6:48pm
thanks guys,
 
i'm not totally happy with the bobber caboose yet.  it still needs a tool box and lighting system, but that will come as soon as i'm happy with the brass lanterns.  building them from scratch is a tall learning experience, but it will pay off in future projects.  i'll keep trying to perfect my skills over the next few months (more like lifetime) while i'm working on other projects that are on the build table.  for the immediate future,  i want alex to enjoy his caboose.  
 
the shop lighting system is almost complete!  the overhead lighting is done with just the small spotlights remaining.  i completed all the wiring and fired the system up (maybe fired isn't the wisest way to say it, but it worked...no sparks, no smoke, and no thrown circuit breakers) today!  it's so bright that i'm going to have to add a 10'x10' lit up cross at night!  yes, pockets, i do know how to and have flagged in 747's!
 
for now, i'll spend the next couple of days cleaning up the mess i made and then get back to the wm caboose for finishing details.
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on May 6th, 2007, 9:39pm, B+MNW21201 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Greg, if he isn't tickled plum silly at the sight of that caboose, then check his pulse!
 
Very nice work as usual George!

Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: May 8th, 2007, 3:27pm
Very Cool Moose. Now you can fun in the dark with the lights on
 
Anthony
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: May 8th, 2007, 4:08pm

 
   George,
 
   Beautiful work, as useual. Knowing Alex as long as I do, I'm sure he will thoughly enjoy running his bobber caboose. Hopefully, those around him won't do any damage to it. That would be a real shame.
 
   If you do this kind of great work on my Erie caboose, I'll be afraid to run it. Ha,ha,ha.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 12th, 2007, 3:49pm
hey ray!
 
here's an idea for your caboose...whadda ya think?!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 12th, 2007, 3:52pm
steamheaton:  or maybe one like your buddy's cab!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 12th, 2007, 4:01pm
steamheaton:  or maybe even an interchange road like this one...the car is just about 40' long!
 
i just may build this one for myself.
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jun 12th, 2007, 6:04pm
George, I like  the first one , it's pretty neat , but I think I will still go with curtain # 2
Ray III
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Jun 12th, 2007, 9:01pm
I think #2 is a good choice, #1 has no coupla, thats kinda sad in a way, doesnt really look like a caboose with out one.  #3, That one could fit my whole family inside it to live.  Maybe, at this rate, with the price of property, we will be doing that soon,  
 
Ray, go with your gut feeling, I support #2 also though.
 
Moose:  Really like'n how that bobber caboose came out, nice lights and all!  One just like that in FERL colors would look AWESOME!
 
 
 
And from a kinda while ago, watch where you flag those 747's in, those things are bigger than they look.     HHHhhhmmm, 747 parts on a live steam flatcar, now theres a project!
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Jun 13th, 2007, 5:59pm
#1 is cute, but then what real man wants a "cute" caboose........wait, let me think about that some more.
 
#2 is a very cool looking caboose
 
#3 the design apparantly not very good at staying on the track.
 
I agree that #2 would be the perfect caboose to follow his new Mikado.
 
But thats just my opinion.
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Jun 13th, 2007, 6:42pm
No.1- that one I like, I can see it on a shortline
 
No.2- I like that one the best. I think it looks the best
 
No.3- I like it but I like 2 the best
 
I defiantly agree as well 2 would be good for a mikado
Anthony
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Jun 13th, 2007, 11:08pm
Nice Sighting, I didnt even notice that #3 was off the track!  Yah, dont go with that one then, bad luck seems to play out in small scale just like large...
 
#1 is "cute" alright...  But not a man's caboose, no offense "ladies"!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 14th, 2007, 5:34pm
hi all,
 
i had to lol!  please do continue to voice your opinions of the photos i post.
 
part of the problem in this madness of ours is that too many cars are 'cookie-cutter' cars.  yes, some will say that all cabooses look alike.  while that may have been true when delivered if built by a commercial builder, it was never so when done by the railroad car shops themselves.  my point is that uniqueness is not as common among rollingstock in the hobby as it should be.  if our models are to mimic real life, each one would be different.
 
when i take one of my cars to a meet, i want it to be the only one like it.  i want someone to notice it over all the other 'cookie-cutter' cabooses.  in a yard of cars that are all the same, many are over-looked.  when i see someone else with a unique feature, i know that i've found someone who cares and not just another checkbook choo choo guy.  every railroad had a personality and every piece of rollingstock showed it.  my purpose for posting my work isn't to garner acclaim, it's to inspire you to go build your own equipment.  research and education should be just as important in your project as your 'tool' kit.
 
i have people requesting copies of the plans for my work all the time.  my standard answer is 'no'!  not because they are a closely guarded secret, but because i don't use any.  why?  after doing the research, i've already built it in my mind.  i do use the 'napkin' method to jot down information i don't want to forget while working on a specific section.  i happily pass on information of what and how i do it as well as the 'standards' i build to.  but to presume to 'tell' a fellow live steamer that they 'must' build my caboose by the plans is to tell that person that what's in their imagination isn't worthy.  for too many, it's easier to pull out the checkbook and buy 'cool' equipment, but it has no soul or heart.  do you want factory-made cookies, or grandmom's homemade?
 
if you take time and put forth the effort to build to a common standard, even a plywood box on wheels has more heart than something off the shelf.  i respect anything that operates well.  i abhor factory cars that get lost in the crowd.   if you are willing to take a stand against sameness, there's a place for builders in the hobby from novice to expert.  the journey is yours to begin.  don't try to be a super-detailer until you can build to function properly.  my journey is a long one.  each new car i build will not only be unique, but further my work skills to more accurate and functional models.
 
enough soapbox, now for the fun part!
 
anthony and dg:  as an exercise, take another...deeper look at the three photos i posted previous.  drop out of choo choo mode and look a little more.  use a photo program and zoom in...now what do you see?
 
think photo no 1 doesn't belong behind a mike?  it probably did more miles than you think!  each photo shows a unique personality, one worthy of modeling.  each car had a story to tell,  with study, it is partially revealed.
what makes photo no 1 so neat?
 
can you tell me?!
 
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
on Jun 13th, 2007, 6:42pm, anthonyd_SRR wrote:       (Click here for original message)
No.1- that one I like, I can see it on a shortline
 
No.2- I like that one the best. I think it looks the best
 
No.3- I like it but I like 2 the best
 
I defiantly agree as well 2 would be good for a mikado
Anthony

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 17th, 2007, 3:31pm
happy daddy's toy day!
 
finally got to spend some time in the shop again.  the irrigation system works, the swimming pool pump motor was replaced, the swimming pool color head was repaired, and another family member made eagle scout!  yes, i know, that's no excuse for staying out of the shop, but the will of SWMBO is formidable.  
 
as of this morning, all of the window grabirons for the WM caboose have been burned, twisted, and bored.  then i ran into a problem, my dremel tool gave up the ghost...i still had some shaping to do to the grabiron ends.   SWMBO and daughter decided to replace the dremel instead of presenting me with a ticket to BORINGWORLDLAND.  works for me (and cheaper to boot)!  over the next few days, i'll grind enough pins to complete the grabirons and get them ready for silver soldering and mounting.  after that, the doors and window shades will be addressed.
 
will have more pictures to post when my camera returns from it's tour of the west.
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: Southerner Posted on: Jun 21st, 2007, 6:09pm
My first post and I'm not sure if I'm in the right spot for my topic...
 
I'm wanting to build a freight car (of some type) for my local 7-1/2" gauge live steam club but I need some plans.  I'm trying to cut costs and not just go out and buy one so I'd like to see if anyone has some they would like to trade in exchange for metal work.  When I mean metal work, I have available to me a laser cutter, plate metal former/roller, sheet metal break press,  sheer, and punch.  I can also do some light welding and spot welding.  The company I work for has given me permission to use their scrap or smaller sized plate or sheet metal pieces to do misc stuff and I can use their equipment.  I figured I would put it to good use and build the local club a car of some type.  So, in exchange for some plans (paper or electronic [preferred]), I would supply the material and cut/form it to your specs if I have the material available.  Exchange of plans wouldn't have to happen until after I created and shipped your part.  I can ship for free if it isn't too large.
 
If this isn't the right place, please excuse me and point me in the right direction.  Thanks!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 21st, 2007, 10:41pm
hi southerner,
 
welcome to the live steam board here on railfan!  as for this being the right place, yes it is.  we welcome your enthusiam and willingness to swap what you know for what you wish to know.  
 
what you build in a rail car depends on the requirements of it's use.  if you want to use a freight car to haul people in...generally a gondola is what some clubs use, but it's not the best design for the job.  if you are wanting a freight car for display and simulated railroad operations, then the design changes again.  my particular interest is in cabooses, boxcars, and passenger cars.  my skills are based on woodworking, but like many others, i'm also trying to develop my metalworking skills.  
 
what you propose is a fabulous trade of knowledge for knowledge.  no doubt more than a few will wish to add their projects to your list.  as i've said in earlier posts, i haven't created plans for the cars that i build.  i am working to create a cad library of my work for my future reference.  it's not my way to take advange of you, but i would enjoy working with you to guide you in the building process.  email me through the railfan.net system and i'll forward my voice-to-voice information.  
 
once we have a list of specifications and common practices for you to build to, the rest is your own creativity.  the hard part is building it complete before ever having put pen to paper or electrons to screen.  
 
others may come up with some different ideas, but getting you into design/build mode is not only my priority, but folks like pockets, erie-atlantic, justin, steaming ray, and others.  it's a delight to have you start your first project with us here on railfan!  
 
(i'm away at the moment, but will be back by tuesday)
 
moose the caboose
 
on Jun 21st, 2007, 6:09pm, Southerner wrote:       (Click here for original message)
My first post and I'm not sure if I'm in the right spot for my topic...
 
I'm wanting to build a freight car (of some type) for my local 7-1/2" gauge live steam club but I need some plans.  I'm trying to cut costs and not just go out and buy one so I'd like to see if anyone has some they would like to trade in exchange for metal work.  When I mean metal work, I have available to me a laser cutter, plate metal former/roller, sheet metal break press,  sheer, and punch.  I can also do some light welding and spot welding.  The company I work for has given me permission to use their scrap or smaller sized plate or sheet metal pieces to do misc stuff and I can use their equipment.  I figured I would put it to good use and build the local club a car of some type.  So, in exchange for some plans (paper or electronic [preferred]), I would supply the material and cut/form it to your specs if I have the material available.  Exchange of plans wouldn't have to happen until after I created and shipped your part.  I can ship for free if it isn't too large.
 
If this isn't the right place, please excuse me and point me in the right direction.  Thanks!

Posted by: Southerner Posted on: Jun 22nd, 2007, 11:50am
Thanks for the quick reply.  It doesn't matter to me which one I build but I'm not much or a freelance designer.  If I have a sketch with dimensions then I'm pretty good.  I haven't gotten into any details with the club so I figured I would check and see if it was even feasable out here on the boards before I promised the club anything.  I figured even it it was a very simple box car then I could get their logo or club info painted on it just for advertisement during their public runs.
 
I work at an ASME boiler shop so I have quite a large assortment of equipment at my hands.  Not that I can use it all but I have permission to get stuff run through with normal production here and there.  Especially if someone already has it in a CAD file b/c most of our stuff is automated (laser, punching cells, etc).  Not sure if I can lend any physical skills to the group but I can help wherever I can.  I guess what I can offer is to let me produce the small, common, precise, and/or mass-quantity metal items while others can concentrate on the custom, hand-formed, larger pieces so I may free up some of their time.
 
Since I am in a boiler shop, I am very tempted to build a steam engine... but I don't want to press my luck nor do I want to abuse the facility and equipment resources that I have available.
Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Jun 22nd, 2007, 6:01pm
Southern:
 
I work in CADD alot, matter of fact, i am sitting in Chattanooga going to Nashville, TN for winning first place in CADD at a state competition.  I did my entire GE 44 TONNER in wood with a 45 watt laser and then fiberglassed it.  I am looking at building a flatcar, which I am drawing up plans for it right now.  
 
I cant say that I am the best at drawing 3D parts and making them all connect together, and I never have built a railroad car yet.  
 
I would be more than happy to help you out some if you need some basic 2D parts, and I could send you the files.  I do need some flatcar ends cut and some braces, hhhmmmm, i might contact you in the future for that!  If you get some dims I could draw out the sides but I am not sure if I could draw out the entire car.  
 
Anywho, good luck with your cars, happy steaming!
Posted by: Southerner Posted on: Jun 26th, 2007, 12:46am
I was planning on taking any drawings or files and putting them into SolidEdge and creating a 3D model and having all parts as individual files.  I don't think it will be that hard.  Maybe just a little time consuming.  If you need any small parts made, let me know and I will see what I can do.  Send me CAD file and material desired.
Posted by: Southerner Posted on: Jun 26th, 2007, 9:37am
Anyone have links to places where I can buy plans to freight cars for the 7-1/2" gauge?  Wasn't sure if such a place existed.
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Jun 26th, 2007, 1:08pm
Southerner, there is a great car builder by the name of Paul Karposki. His method is to take an HO car of the type he wants and using a scale rule, he takes the measurements directly from the model. He has made some very realistic models. I believe you can see some of his work in the DiscoverLiveSteam for sale pages. He has posted some of his techniques in the Yahoo group "Live Diesel" also.  
 
You can also check out back copies of Railroad Model Craftsman or Model Railroader for car plans.  
 
I guess my point is that you don't need to spend good money on plans.
 
Bobby
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 26th, 2007, 6:55pm
hi all,
 
southerner: you can use ho scale drawings, old erection floor drawings, and even good ole time pictures if you've learned the art of finding a scale reference point (hint: most caboose doors are in the range of 6' 3", while most household doors are 6' 8").  
 
i've gotten back in the shop today after a family trip.
 
here's a photo of some of the work i did last week before for the dremel tool bit the dust.  the grab-irons have be made, but still need a little shaping and the 'bolts' silver soldered in place.  i will get to that in a day or two.  after that, it's off to painting and priming!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 26th, 2007, 7:08pm
hi all,
 
here's a photo of some of the work i did today.  i've been thinking of how to do the window shades for the wm caboose.  i knew that i wanted to use brass stock, but what thickness and what to do with it.  i did some experimenting today and decided that .005 shim brass would be fine, except for being sharp-edged.  by folding 1/8" under and then flat, the edges are no longer sharp to the feel.  it also stiffened the window shade nicely.  i still have to silver solder the joints together  to clean up the ends, but it looks like it will do what i want it to when painted flat black.    
 
three more to go in this size, then two to go above the cupola side windows.  when they are mounted, it will be time for the doors!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 30th, 2007, 9:55pm
hi all,
 
in the proceeding post, i showed how the window shades would look when completed.  what i needed to show was how i got there.  the photo below shows the various stages in the construction of the shades.  from .005 brass shim stock to semi-finished shade going from left to right.  for my purposes, i cut a strip of 1 1/4" wide by the 10" length for each of the shades i needed.  brass shim stock is not only thin, but sharp as well...use with care!  i wanted to wind up with a shade that was 7/8" wide  with a 1/8th" front folded edge and a 1/4" mounting tab at the back (that's why 1 1/4).  with my strips cut and marked, i was ready for bending.  i happen to have one of the small 18" metal brakes, but this same task can be done by sandwiching the shim stock between two pieces of steel and held by clamps.  if you use this method, gently tap the shim stock with a piece of wood no heavier than a 1x2.  ease the brass over a little at a time going the entire lenght of the piece before making another pass.  don't strike the piece straight down, but it's a good idea to have the piece in a vise and lightly push away from you (or to you) as you strike the brass.
 
i'm no metals genius, but i am learning (yes, pockets, you said brass will do strange things) that patience, practice, and technique win the day!  my first bend is the leading edge where 1/8th" is initially bent to 90 degrees, then with stick method, it is finally turned under and back on itself.  now i have an edge that is not only smooth, but a little stiffer.
 
with the leading edge folded, it's time to turn a 90 degree tab on the back edge.  again, i did this with my brake, but it could have been done in the manner described above.  i also needed side supports for my window shades.  to do this, i centered the main window opening measurement in my work piece.  with the outside measurement now marked, i took my shade width measurement (7/8th") and marked that amount on outboard of the window opening marks.  by marking a diagonal line from the window opening mark on the leading edge to the root edge of the 1/4" tab at the additional 7/8th" mark, i now have one of my next fold lines.  to make things easier, where the window opening marks meet the 1/4" tab, i cut the tab to the root of the 90 degree bend.  with that done, i flattened out ends that won't be part of the piece much longer.  because i wanted to wind up with a shallower angle than 45 degrees, where the diagonal line was drawn i measured from the root of the tab towards the leading edge for a distance of 5/8th".  from that new mark, i drew a line to the root of the 90 degree angle at the window opening measurement.   that established my next fold line.  that's just one side, as they say, "reverse and repeat" for the other side.  you can fold as it is, but that leaves some sharp edges.  i created 1/8th" folding tabs outboard of my main folding lines to create an edge that wouldn't cut my fingers.
 
using needle-nose pliers, i made the folds as described and made the side wings.  i then trued up the side wings to the window shade and tab.  i carefully silvered soldered the assemblies to help stiffen and neaten them.  there are a lot more elegant ways to do this, but i wanted to show that you could do some interesting stuff with modest shop tools and a little practice.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
 
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 30th, 2007, 10:01pm
hi all,
 
i also wanted to show how the grab-iron construction was coming along.  here's a photo of the raw grab-irons as the first couple were fitted to the window.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
 
 
 
Posted by: livesteamsteve Posted on: Jul 1st, 2007, 12:41am
Southerner, welcome to the boards.  As Moose said, the best way is to find plans in a MR, RMC, or any other RR magazine.  If you're lucky, you will come across builders erection drawings.
 
Also, as many say, the best form of flattery is imitation, so your best bet is to find a model of something you like that someone has built already.  Then go and pick their brain about how they built it, take some measurements, and go build your own.  Most guys are more than happy to lend advice/pointers if you are building something around what they have built.  If they have done it already, learn from there mistakes and shortcuts.
 
Another way is to find the prototype (if still around) and take some measurements and scale them down.  I'm currently doing that with a caboose that I am starting.  Sometimes we are not that lucky and your best bet is to locate pictures and attempt to get dimensions and scale them down.  One trick is to find something that you roughly know what size is and compare that to the thing you are modeling in the same photo (i.e. a normal RR tie is roughly 7" x 9" when trying to find the dimensions of a prototype).  That method has worked for many people.  I have a friend that owns a steamer that was built using no prototype measurements and just from photographs and is close to a dead ringer for an exact match of the prototype.
 
I'm sure there are more modelers tricks out there, but those have been the ones that have worked for me.  Good luck.
 
Steve L.
Posted by: anthonyd_SRR Posted on: Jul 2nd, 2007, 2:10pm
Hey  Moose,  
 
That is really nice. I would just like to know how you put that on the engine? It looks like it is screwed on, Great job so far.
 
Anthony
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 3rd, 2007, 6:01pm
hi all,
 
anthony:  that's a great question and thanks for the compliment!  the short answer is patience and prodding from folks on the forum like you.  in this case, ole' pockets asked me why i couldn't make it look like the grab-irons had bolts holding them on.  he'd already told me about how to fasten the end catwalk brackets to the roof by drilling the bracket feet and roof fascia.  when the matching holes were done, it would be easy to thread a piece of soft copper wire and buck the end over to look like a rivot.  the idea struck me that it would work for this application with one modification.  the wire needed to be strong enough to mount and hold the grab-irons on for the life of the model.  
 
so, i took 1/16th brass rod and cut it to a total 16 1/2" lengths.  each 1/2" piece was then pointed on one end.  instead of just glueing the grab-iron and brass pieces together, i silver soldered them.  normal household solders proved too weak to hold.  i tried the commercial high-bearing silver solders and ran into heat problems (my fault more than likely).  i happened on a 3% silver bearing solder normally used to fasten electrical and electronic connections on devices that take alot of vibration (like railcars).  this solder in combination with the commonly available water-soluable flux gel, gets the job done for me.  by design, the joints i make are tougher than normal, but no so hard to undo.  as my experience grows, i may find another solder that handles better.  only time will tell.
 
for heat, i use a little tiny cheap butane torch commonly available at the big box hardware stores.  a word of caution, buy your butane fuels from a shop that sells pipe lighters.  like everything in life, i found that all butane fuels aren't the same.  the heat has to be just right for the combination of solder and flux that you are using.
 
the photo below shows the pieces and a very simple jig used to put them together.  it isn't rocket science and doesn't require super precision, just good preparation of the materials.  the tops of the grab-iron tabs are super clean (i file them prior to soldering just to make sure), while the bottoms of the tabs are left dirty.  even with flux, the 'dirt' won't allow the solder to stick to the undersides of the tabs.  the solder goes where i want it...the top of the tab and the rod.  after cooling, a little judicious filing to shape the solder and you have a 'bolt'.  
 
to mount the grab-irons?  i simply drill holes in the carbody and super-glue them in.  why super-glue?  because with a slightly laid hammer blow, i can cleanly remove the part for renewal or replacement.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Jul 2nd, 2007, 2:10pm, anthonyd_SRR wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hey  Moose,  
 
That is really nice. I would just like to know how you put that on the engine? It looks like it is screwed on, Great job so far.
 
Anthony

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 6th, 2007, 5:00pm
hi all,
 
just about all of the brass work is finished on the wm caboose.  priming and painting are all that's left before installation.  so now i've moved on to building the 4-panel doors.   want a reference?  either check out your own front door or the doors at a big box hardware store.  the most common will be a 6 panel because of size.  that's what i'm building!
 
i must give credit where credit is due.  the idea about how to do the doors this way came from my good friend pete bialecki.  because of my background, i knew how to do it in the real world, but wasn't sure of my skills for 1 1/2" scale.  i happened to view one of pete's cabs and noticed the doors...my jaw just about hit the ground!  there was what i was missing on my cars, a 4 panel door!  pete happily explained how he did it.  shortly, i'll be showing you how i will be doing it.
 
thanks pete, for pushing me off dead-center.  my skills are sharpened by your attention!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 8th, 2007, 8:53pm
hi all,
 
the weekend has literally flown by!  i wanted to show you the progress that i've made on the caboose doors.  over the last 4 days, the design has changed several times, but the building technique has remained the same.  initially, i wanted to build a 6-panel or 4-panel door.  in the building stock that i created last week, i put a 1/4" groove for a tongue-and-groove fit.  once the door pieces were cut and fit, it seemed to me that it just didn't look right.  back to the drawing board!
 
i happen to notice in one of the pieces that i created in error, that a 1/8" groove worked better with the materials at hand.  the upshot is that i've created a 2-panel door with window.  as the photo shows below, the work isn't finished yet.  still some cutting, fitting, and shaping left to go before assembly.  keep your fingers crossed!  the hardest part is duplicating everything for a second door.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 21st, 2007, 12:16pm
hi all,
 
due to weather patterns here in central florida, shop-time now comes at a premium.  electrically powered tools and lightning aren't a good mix.  however, today was productive in terms of getting things further along.  most to the grabirons have been permanently mounted and the first door has been sorted out.   here's a view of what the finished door will look like when assembled.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 21st, 2007, 12:28pm
hi all,
 
there are those who would say that this part of the project isn't for beginners, but with extreme care and guidance from an old hand, it can be done.  a word of caution!  please, please follow all instructions and use the safety features on your power equipment!  as in railroading, safety is first and formost in the shop as well....i have the scars to prove it!  if it cuts, twists, drills, or trys to move the work-piece in any fashion, build a jig to hold it!
 
you can go years without an incident.  no, i haven't had an accident, but did want to make the point, be ever vigilent!  
 
here's an exploded view of how the doors are made.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Jul 21st, 2007, 12:29pm
Hi Moose,
 
Been watching the weather patterns in your neck of the words and am somewhat concerned. Have some friends of the family also in central Florida, west coast, and they are not in good shape. How are things working out for you and your's. In the meantime, take care, best of luck and keep us informed.
Posted by: TAB Posted on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 9:47am
Hey Moose…I found this photo in my stack of stuff. It is a plywood caboose. It dates from the late 1950s to early 1960s. Although this is 1:1 scale it reminded me of your work. The picture was taken at the Elizabeth Port Shops of the Jersey Central Lines …Tom
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 9:59am
hi all,
 
pennsy:  you are right to be concerned.  the storms that are occuring now don't have strong steering currents aloft.  that makes them almost stationary...and dangerous to a specific locale over a longer period of time.  usually, we get fast moving storms on the boundaries of both the eastern and western seabreezes.  they produce lots of rain, lots of lightning, but are moving fast enough that the area might be as wide as the state (on average, 90 miles).  where do the storms generally rain themselves out?  follow the interstates my friend!  as our storm season progresses, keep all of us in you thoughts and keep some blue tarps handy!
 
all:  florida and the rest of the gulf coast region is an absolute paradise most of the year, but storm season can be vicious!  our hobby deals with metals (rails, locos, cars, ect...) so it pays to keep a weather eye to avoid deadly encounters with lightning.  as in all railroading activities, safety first...or as in an old memory (bruce, you remember this one?), "Safety Fist!"  that's a story for another time and thread.  i'll be back in the shop today and hopefully have the other door cut out and ready to assemble.
 
stay dry, stay safe!
 
the erie legacy car is next!
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
on Jul 21st, 2007, 12:29pm, Pennsy wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hi Moose,
 
Been watching the weather patterns in your neck of the words and am somewhat concerned. Have some friends of the family also in central Florida, west coast, and they are not in good shape. How are things working out for you and your's. In the meantime, take care, best of luck and keep us informed.

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 10:28am
hi tom,
 
many thanks for the photo!  please do forward anything to do with cabooses, waycars, mow cars, and the like.  i can especially use shop layoff drawings, builder photos, and high res railfan photos showing as many sides as possible of the same car.  i also look for oddball cars that show real character.  this type of car wasn't produced in cookie-cutter fashion, but was done because there was a need to be met.  the photo below of the el paso & south western is a good example.  this cab is small, compact, and built to fill a need.  anything that you run across like that would be deeply appreciated!
 
i've wanted to do a plywood car for some time now.  couldn't you just see a jersey central tagging along with the erie in a bridge move between the two railroads?!  the funny thing is that i use plywood as the prime material for the bodies.  using 1:1 plywood for a plywood caboose, the grain structure is too large to simulate the look of scale sized plywood.  so i've been thinking of some of the fine grain woods like basswood or some of the maples.  down here, the actual furniture plywoods are very expensive, so the thought of using veneers comes to mind.  veneers can run into some bucks as well, but would be far more affordable than the plywoods.
 
again, many thanks for the thought and the photo!
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Jul 22nd, 2007, 9:47am, TAB wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hey Moose…I found this photo in my stack of stuff. It is a plywood caboose. It dates from the late 1950s to early 1960s. Although this is 1:1 scale it reminded me of your work. The picture was taken at the Elizabeth Port Shops of the Jersey Central Lines …Tom

Posted by: dgmarklin Posted on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 6:44pm
Moose,
You have a very very good point there about not building the usual!  Thats part of the reason I built a GE 44 Tonner, instead of an F7, GP38, Dash-8, etc.etc.etc...  I wanted something that was not built by a supplier (roll models, eslines, or some other ones).  This brings up my next project...  I plan to start off building a simple flatcar, very simple, not completely prototypical but still looks like a flatcar.  BUT it will have "interchangeable" decks, allowing me to change from a seat car, to a battery car, or to an gondola, or maybe a live steam boat rig to hold a live steam boat (another project hopefully).
 
Moose, you build very good cars from the pictures, they inspire alot of people to build more rolling stock by hand, instead of ordering a RTR.
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 29th, 2007, 7:29pm
hi all,
 
got a chance to paint and final assemble door #1 today!  the assembly and fit up of door #2 also progressed as well.  it will be painted tomorrow!  when it is completed, all that's left is mounting.  with all the brasswork painted, it's just a matter of installing and returning the car to it's home railroad.  
 
i took a second look at my resource materials and decided not to install the mullion strips.
 
here's a look at door #1.
 
erie legacy caboose,,,get ready!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 29th, 2007, 7:39pm
hi all,
 
here's a look at door #2.
 
erie legacy caboose,,,almost there!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 29th, 2007, 7:59pm
hi all!
 
dg's comment about the ge 44 tonner being unique in the hobby made me start to think.  well, 44 tonners are common in the hobby, but having one that runs well, pulls well, constructed well, and detailed well...well, isn't.  most settle for a caricature.  that in and of itself is fine, but a little more time and research will result in a model that is a joy to behold as well as operate.  dean, keep up the great work!
 
you want unique?  try this one in 3 3/4 inch scale...but that's another thread in the not so distant future.  i want to thank the good folks at mngr for being patient with my inquiries!  thanks especially to russ.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Jul 22nd, 2007, 6:44pm, dgmarklin wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moose,
You have a very very good point there about not building the usual!  Thats part of the reason I built a GE 44 Tonner, instead of an F7, GP38, Dash-8, etc.etc.etc...  I wanted something that was not built by a supplier (roll models, eslines, or some other ones).  This brings up my next project...  I plan to start off building a simple flatcar, very simple, not completely prototypical but still looks like a flatcar.  BUT it will have "interchangeable" decks, allowing me to change from a seat car, to a battery car, or to an gondola, or maybe a live steam boat rig to hold a live steam boat (another project hopefully).
 
Moose, you build very good cars from the pictures, they inspire alot of people to build more rolling stock by hand, instead of ordering a RTR.
 

Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Jul 30th, 2007, 12:51pm
Moose, that engine looks like the same ones that the Edaville Railroad (2 ft)uses now. I believe Plum Cove Studios is building one for 7.5/7.25 gauge track.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 30th, 2007, 7:58pm
hi bobby,
 
you are correct, pc is trying to build them.  the difference between mine and theirs?  mine will be built to original factory configuration...theirs', they'll do what they need to do to sell them.  mine will be 3 to 4 times heavier and powered by a golf cart motor in all likelihood.  theirs'...they will do what they have to to sell them.  no dig at them, but their design criteria is different than mine.  theirs' undoubtably will be lighter and have greater portability, mine will need a trailer.
 
here's a question for you, where did edaville get them from...what's the heritage?
 
moose the caboose
 
on Jul 30th, 2007, 12:51pm, B+MNW21201 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moose, that engine looks like the same ones that the Edaville Railroad (2 ft)uses now. I believe Plum Cove Studios is building one for 7.5/7.25 gauge track.

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 1st, 2007, 4:47pm
That is the ex-Edaville engine.
 
As I understand it, PC's model is to 2-1/2" scale, for 7-1'2" gauge. For a 2' prototype, that's just plain wrong.... If you can't at least attempt to do it right, leave it alone!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 12th, 2007, 2:21pm
hi all,
 
the wm caboose isn't far from leaving the shop!  here's a picture of door #2 getting red paint.
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 12th, 2007, 2:24pm
hi all,
 
here's the pre-install look of door #1.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 12th, 2007, 2:28pm
hi all,
 
here's the semi-finished look for the wm caboose.  i still have the brasswork to check and re-install, but that shouldn't take long!  bruce, i'm soooo close to your legacy erie...i can't wait to get started!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 12th, 2007, 4:59pm
Looking real nice, Moosey. An' it's about time, too!!!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 17th, 2007, 5:51pm
hi all,
 
it's finally done...almost.  the wm caboose still needs lettering and lighting system, but that may be done by others.  tomorrow, it will be returned to its home rails and a legacy erie caboose will take its place on the build table.  i will try and get some pictures of the wm caboose and its stablemates.
 
til' then...
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 18th, 2007, 8:15pm
hi all,
 
the wm caboose is gone, gone, gone!  here's a view of it in it's new home.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 18th, 2007, 8:20pm
and another view.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 18th, 2007, 8:25pm
hi all,
 
with the exit of the wm caboose, there's a new occupant sitting in it's place...close your eyes bruce!  let the demolition begin!  
 
it will only hurt for a little while, the pain should subside shortly!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 18th, 2007, 8:43pm
hi all,
 
the erie legacy caboose will be getting a much deserved face-lift.  this car has seen many miles of action.  as an early kit-built car from mcc, it is a perfect example of how easy it is to get into the hobby.  i'm going to be updating the body (getting rid of nails and screws that are in plain sight), re-newing parts that have become shop-worn, and increasing the scale appearance.  this car has tagged along behind many a live steamer-in-training and truly does deserve a re-build.  keep watching to see how i'm going to pull this miracle off!
 
ya know, i've been thinking of making this a d & h car by sawing off the rear section behind the copula...only kidding bruce!
 
the interior will soon be re-framed and painted so the new windows can be fitted.
 
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 18th, 2007, 8:47pm
hi all,
 
with the fake door insert gone, the door openings will be re-framed for some panel doors.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 19th, 2007, 5:39pm
hi all,
 
even though the demolition continues, the cupola windows are being modified to accept the window units that you've seen me use in the past.  all the windows should be modified and ready by the end of the week.  when the caboose has been reduced to it's basic structure, then the actual rebuilding can begin.   the body will be sanded and filled, because the new support structure won't depend on the nails and screws currently in place.
 
i'll post some pictures tomorrow...'til then!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 19th, 2007, 7:24pm

 
   George,
 
   First of all, not to emmbarras you, but I want all here to know how much I appreciate you taking on this project for me.  
 
   Secondly, as with so much of my "stuff" there is a story. That I hope will put a smile on a face or two. And here it is.
 
   As can be seen in the photo of the rear end of my Erie caboose, the back wall next to the door is slightly ascue from the other side. Here is how this happened.
Our dear departed friend/live steamer Ben Schneider has three of his passenger cars with him at a very nice but steeply graded track in N. Carolina. I also was there with me, Erie 7597, a few of my freight cars, includeing the Erie caboose.
 
   At some point in the four day visit, Ben made the suggestion that we tie the passenger cars behind my freight train. For a heavy train and make 7597 really talk on some of the grades. I agreed and made up the train in the yard. And off we went.
Smoke boiling out of the stack of Erie Atlantic, and the cars rumbling along behind.
Ben was rideing in my John Cassady gon about two cars ahead of the caboose so he could enjoy the ride.
 
   Up this hill and down that one we went, engine talking up a storm, me shoveling coal to beat the band. All of a sudden, as we rounded a curve with a number of switches in it, I could hear boom, bank, crunch, and Ben yelling "Bruce we're on the ground".
 
   OK, we stop. At first nothing looked too bad. Then I notice the front coupler of Ben's lead coach punched squarely through the back wall of my caboose. The door was just hanging there, the railings were like pretzels. And the passenger car was jammed tight into the caboose wood work.  
 
   After some work and a few choice words, we extricated the heavy passenger car from the back end of my humble caboose, checked everything for tracking, recoupled and went on our way. The damn thing never came off again. To this day, I don't know why that passenger car found it's way, up on and close to inside my poor old Erie caboose. Well, that is how that back wall got slid in "cattywampus" to the wall on the other side of the door.
 
   George, now you know the whole story.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 20th, 2007, 9:18pm
hi all,
 
the inspection and analysis continues on the legacy erie caboose.   the deeper i go, the more 'history' i find!  one of the problems i uncovered goes back to the original builder...who must have been a hot-rodder!  the 'a' end is lower than the 'b' end.  had me wondering until i found the old motor mounts for a large block v-8 and happened to notice three strange marks on the bottom of the 'a' end roof...kindda look like it sat atop a high-rise manifold with 3 dueces.   this caboose has all the earmarks of a tim taylor-like creation!  as i looked further, i found evidence of body extender rails, nitro tank bracket, and traction bars on the 'b' end.  i'm afraid to inspection the rear trucks, they look a little slick and smell a little like bleach.  hmm!  lololo!
 
bruce:  you're very welcome!  as i've said before, you, ben, and a couple others have been my mentors for years.  this project is an absolute labor of love.  you've taught so many folks to fire steam engines and how to effectively handle heavy trains that i've wanted to find a way to return the energy you've given...so here's my way to say 'thank you'!  
 
one day, i may be lucky enough to be called upon to restore some of ben's equipment and i will have come full circle with those who put so much energy into teaching and encouraging me in my journey.
 
to all:  tomorrow begins the next step in this renewal of the erie legacy caboose.   the photo below may look like total destruction, but it is the beginning of the rise of the phoenix.  the photo also shows how simple the railcar structure can be.  most everything can be done with homeowner type tools, nothing really specialized.  this railcar was originally designed to be built by beginners.  it is both simple and enduring.  with a little bit of research and patience, it can also be detailed to be a unique railcar.
 
being unique and built by you, makes it yours, not a cookie cutter car.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 20th, 2007, 10:04pm

 
   HOLY MACKERAL moosey, it looks like and explosion!!! Oh, we did'nt mention the WOODEN trucks that are under the Erie caboose. Yes folks, I said WOODEN trucks. But thats another story.
 
   Thanks ahead of time George for you efforts. I appreciate it.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 20th, 2007, 10:24pm
Moose & Bruce,
I'm a little surprised at the California rake. I tought yous East Coast guys wuz inter tail draggers.....
 
I'm glad that Moosey finally got into this car. He's been chomping at the bit for a long while, now. It'll be a sweetheart, when it's finished.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:12pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  do you remember the scene from the movie 'butch cassidy and the sundance kid' where they blow up the baggage car?!!!!  well.....lol!  
 
to all:  the truth is that this is about doing a good restoration.  there are any number of changes that i would liked to have done, but they aren't germaine to the restoration.   as the railcar was originally designed and built, the doorway doesn't match prototypical practice...its too tall (scale 6' 8"), where as most prototypes are 6' 3" or 6' 4".  the other flaw is that the roof pitch is too steep.  it may not seem like much, but the eye picks up on the visual cues.  most (full size) cabooses measure no more than 6" from the top of the door to the under side of the roof(most old wooden cabooses are 4").  yes, there are always exceptions to the rule, but this restoration is about a piece of live steam history that has earned every bit of character attributed to it.
 
so what changes will i be making?  this caboose is an early model from mcc.  the models that came later had doors that would swing on hinges.  it will also recieve semi-detailed windows rather than the framing it has now, note, mcc didn't do detailed windows.  the erie caboose will be updated to a new standard.  all of the mcc cabooses had roofs made from 1/8" plywood on a 1x?x? frame.  they didn't do any detailing other than adding an over-scale catwalk.  in a departure from pure restoration, the erie will receive a new set of roofs made from planking as i've done in the past.  instead of just being painted, the roof will be 'tar-papered' for a more scale look.  the catwalk and roof details will be a little more scale in appearance.  the grabirons will be 1/16" rod instead of 1/8".  the underbody toolboxes will be a little more detailed as they appear on later model mcc cars.  the most functional change though, is the addition of shaped steel endsills that will be welded to the centersill.  this one change will allow direct mounting of safety chain eye-bolts to the endsill without additional support behind it.  this is something that mcc has never done to my knowledge.  
 
bruce:  i will be sending the pattern for the 2 endsills sometime in the next 2  or 3 weeks.
 
here's a view of the work done today.  the left side has been partially sanded, the holes filled, and much of the siding repair work underway.
 
ya know, i kindda like the 'weathered' look.  i may actually try to build an old run-down, sway-back hack from scratch!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:19pm
hi all,
 
here's a closer view of the siding repair work.  anytime that you are working with sculptured plywood, you'll end up needing to repair the areas of the top ply that have been weakened or weren't glued properly.  in the case of the erie, time has taken it's toll.  with patience, its an easy fix.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:26pm
hi all,
 
the photo below is a closer look at the fill work on the nail holes.  when the wood filler has cured, it will be sanded smooth and any depressions filled again.  the idea is to not completely wipe out any existing character, but to create a more prototypical look.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:39pm
hi all,
 
because i'm fitting to an existing railcar structure, the new support rails need to be fitted to the old.  in this photo, i'm doing just that.  the new support rail will not only stiffen the car's foundation, but create a new way to remove the car's body from the chassis if the need arises.  the 2 support rails are the only places that the car will be screwed together, and then only from the bottom.  with the screws removed, the body (carefully) should lift off the chassis.  unfortunately, the support rails will also add bulk to the interior, but should also aid in allaying damage if someone decides to sit on the car (it has happened, how ever strange it may seem).
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:47pm
hi all,
 
with all the measurements transferred from the erie caboose, the support rail is glued into place.  when the glue has set, the siding will rejoin the rest of the caboose for fitting of the roof rail.  when all the filling and sanding has been completed, it will be primed and readied for painting, but...that's still a ways away.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:53pm
hi all,
 
speaking of wooden trucks, here's a better view!  as much history as the erie caboose has, the trucks truly are a piece of live steam heritage.  and that's a great story for bruce to tell.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:56pm
oops!  here's a smaller version of the picture.
 
moose the caboose
 
on Aug 21st, 2007, 8:53pm, moose_the_caboose wrote:       (Click here for original message)
hi all,
 
speaking of wooden trucks, here's a better view!  as much history as the erie caboose has, the trucks truly are a piece of live steam heritage.  and that's a great story for bruce to tell.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose

Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 10:07am

 
   George,
 
   Don't know if this fits here or not, but here goes. This is about those "old" trucks.
 
   The history of my set plus two other sets of the sme trucks goes back to the early seventy. Or maybe farthur back than that. This I don't know though. Yes, the bolsters are wooden, the jounal boxes are wooden with a bronze sleave bearing for the axle end to rotate in. The side frames are very light welded steel flat steel. I put the hard rubber blocks in to take the place of the wooden  blocks that long ago broke into pieces.
 
   To the best of my knowledge, these trucks were under equipment of the Link and Pin Railroad here in Florida. The was the railroad of a long time live steamer/model railroader by the name of Stan Parker who is long gone.  
 
   Stan Parker's flat car and work caboose are owned by Mike Keteltas with the original wooden trucks under them to this day. But I have no idea how the identicle trucks got under my caboose since it is an old mcc kit.
 
   I know that Mike has no intension of changeing the trucks under his Link and Pin equipment, and I certainly have no intension of changeing mine either. There is just too much Fl. live steam  history attached to them.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce  
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 25th, 2007, 7:00am
hi all,
 
i'm on the road to visit a newly rebuilt pacific loco of a friend.  i want to continue with the legacy erie by showing you the progress so far.  in the photo below, the interior surface of the siding was sanded clean and the new internal bracing has been added.  why sand the interior?  glue and most paints won't adhere to a dirty, greasy, or oily surface.  most railcars like this one are empty boxes and are thus capable of carrying just about everything needed while traveling or out on the track.  not many cabooses in the hobby have interiors for just that reason.  ya gotta have a place to put your stuff!  
 
the original caboose wasn't painted on the interior so why do that now?  because one the problems with the original roof was the seperation of the individual plies of the plywood.  as i said before, the car was designed to be a kit...one that was simple and easy, not that much detailing.  it was assumed that if you had the skills to take it further, you would.  most people stopped when the kit was assembled and painted.  without being sealed, even plywood is effected by by moisture.  and brother there's a lot of moisture in florida!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 25th, 2007, 7:07am
hi all,
 
i also wanted to show how the restoration is being done.  in the photo below, the 'a' end of the cupola is show just as it was removed from the carbody.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 25th, 2007, 7:10am
here it is again after the trim was removed and prior to sanding.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 25th, 2007, 7:15am
hi all,
 
there's a lot more sanding and filling before it is ready for re-assembly, but here' a picture to show how it's going to look just prior to paint and new window installation.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 27th, 2007, 4:41pm

 
   George,
 
   I just re-read your last post with the picture of a certain old caboose. Man, there is no hurry to get that car back. Take all the time you need. Believe me, I sure can't do the kind of work that you are so good at, that the poor old thing needs. I appreciate you doing the restoration work on it. I hope it does'nt wear you out. It was pretty bad!!
 
   Thanks again,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 27th, 2007, 6:36pm
hi all,
 
bruce r -  not to worry.  i've repaired most of the damage done by the kit-bashing passenger car, but left enough to keep the memory alive.  there was more damage than previously thought, so i've taken the caboose all the way down to the frame.  that is going to add more time to the rebuild, but we will definitely have a 'swearing at' ceremony at the unmeet!  btw, you might want to find a nice pair of caboose lights to go with your new battery box and control system.  speaking of new additions, i still haven't figured out how to mount the seement block under the body...lolololo!  here's a photo of the progress.  the foundation board is finally clear!
 
to all - as many of you have guessed, bruce and i go back aways to the point that you had to use your imagination when looking at old parts to see what they really wanted to be.  to that end, bruce's 'goose' and my english tank engine came into being.  what we've both found that if you really want to do something, others will take delight and help you.  neither of us listened to those that thought 'well, you just can't do that.'  what i've learned personally is to be associated with people who build, operate, and maintain their equipment, rather buy it, play with it, and cast it aside like a miniature train set.  
 
to that end, that's why we just keep plugging away here on the railfan net.
 
on Aug 27th, 2007, 4:41pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   George,
 
   I just re-read your last post with the picture of a certain old caboose. Man, there is no hurry to get that car back. Take all the time you need. Believe me, I sure can't do the kind of work that you are so good at, that the poor old thing needs. I appreciate you doing the restoration work on it. I hope it does'nt wear you out. It was pretty bad!!
 
   Thanks again,
 
   Bruce

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 27th, 2007, 6:55pm
hi all,
 
the damage to the erie caboose that bruce and i have been talking about (done by the kit-kabashing passenger car) was quite extensive.  a good solid repair was made either at or sometime later, but there was enough fiber damage done that a complete repair wasn't possible.  in the photo below you will notice in the lower right side quarter (where all the clamps are) is where the passenger car made it's entry.  in order to make things a little better, i had to surgically remove both the older repair and enough of the errant wood fiber  to allow the wood plies to relax and lay flat.  keeping in mind that this is a rebuild/restoration, i've left a little bump in the wall to keep some precious memories alive.  here's the over all view.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Aug 19th, 2007, 7:24pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   George,
 
   First of all, not to emmbarras you, but I want all here to know how much I appreciate you taking on this project for me.  
 
   Secondly, as with so much of my "stuff" there is a story. That I hope will put a smile on a face or two. And here it is.
 
   As can be seen in the photo of the rear end of my Erie caboose, the back wall next to the door is slightly ascue from the other side. Here is how this happened.
Our dear departed friend/live steamer Ben Schneider has three of his passenger cars with him at a very nice but steeply graded track in N. Carolina. I also was there with me, Erie 7597, a few of my freight cars, includeing the Erie caboose.
 
   At some point in the four day visit, Ben made the suggestion that we tie the passenger cars behind my freight train. For a heavy train and make 7597 really talk on some of the grades. I agreed and made up the train in the yard. And off we went.
Smoke boiling out of the stack of Erie Atlantic, and the cars rumbling along behind.
Ben was rideing in my John Cassady gon about two cars ahead of the caboose so he could enjoy the ride.
 
   Up this hill and down that one we went, engine talking up a storm, me shoveling coal to beat the band. All of a sudden, as we rounded a curve with a number of switches in it, I could hear boom, bank, crunch, and Ben yelling "Bruce we're on the ground".
 
   OK, we stop. At first nothing looked too bad. Then I notice the front coupler of Ben's lead coach punched squarely through the back wall of my caboose. The door was just hanging there, the railings were like pretzels. And the passenger car was jammed tight into the caboose wood work.  
 
   After some work and a few choice words, we extricated the heavy passenger car from the back end of my humble caboose, checked everything for tracking, recoupled and went on our way. The damn thing never came off again. To this day, I don't know why that passenger car found it's way, up on and close to inside my poor old Erie caboose. Well, that is how that back wall got slid in "cattywampus" to the wall on the other side of the door.
 
   George, now you know the whole story.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 27th, 2007, 7:05pm
hi all,
 
here's a close up of the current repair.  when the glue has completely cured, i'll go back over it to fill, seal, and shape any depressions or irregularities.  it won't be obvious to the curious bystander, but enough for those in the know to recognize and remember.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 28th, 2007, 7:06pm
hi all,
 
today was a busy day in the shop!  the other day, i found damage to the foundation board in several places.  as of today, the damage has been repaired.  the foundation board is 1/2" plywood, some are 3 ply, many are 4 ply, and the best can 5 ply or more.  in the case of the legacy erie, the kit was supplied with 4 ply.  considering that each ply is 1/8" thick, the damage was through 1 1/2 plies.  the damage may have started with a wreck, but was finished by moisture cracking.  this is why sealing the wood from humidity is very important.  cosmetically, i've fixed the splits with filler, but that won't keep the foundation board from warping in the future.  at the moment, i'm looking at the combination of creating cross-members and additional sealing methods (epoxy or polyester paint-on surfacing).  
 
here's a look at the beginning of the repair.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 28th, 2007, 7:13pm
hi all,
 
here's a closer view of the cosmetic repair.  while the complete repair method is sorted out, work will continue in other areas.  the 'a' and 'b' ends have been under repair and will soon rejoin the rest of the caboose parts.  at that point, i can re-assemble and get it ready for priming.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 28th, 2007, 7:25pm
Moosemeister,
There are two (at least) approaches to this warpage issue.By making the carbody and floor an integral unit, you creat a monocoque style torque box. This means a hyper-ridgid construction, wherein the mechanical fasteners are only for clamping and alignment until the adhesive sets. The other approach is to look to the prototype.  Deep longitudinal stringers, locked ridgidly (welded) together with body bolsters and end sills. The floor is then (with crossed fingers) sanwiched between the under frame and the car body. In any case, seal those edges....
 
Iknow, I know.... "Pockets, sit down and shut up "
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 29th, 2007, 7:11pm
hi all,
 
the legacy erie is being re-assembled!  so far, the 'a' and 'b' cupola ends along with the 'a' end has been glued in place.  the 'b' end required a tad more repair work, but it will be ready tomorrow.  it's laying at the end of the 'b' end.  here's how it looks.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 29th, 2007, 7:15pm
hi all,
 
here's a better side view of the works in progress.  on the 'a' end, the clamps are needed to ensure a nice, close fit between the end and the sides.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 29th, 2007, 7:19pm
hi all,
 
finally today, i got a chance to modify one to the window units to fit in the cutouts.
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 29th, 2007, 7:23pm
hi all,  
 
this last photo may give you a better idea of how the window units will complete the new look.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 29th, 2007, 7:26pm
hi all,
 
lets do a comparison.  from this....
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 29th, 2007, 7:29pm
hi all,
 
to this....what do you think?  is the window modification worth the trouble?  i think so!  what's your take?
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Aug 30th, 2007, 7:53am
Wow, what a difference. That is looking really nice.  Moose, where do you get those windows from?
Bobby
Posted by: SRC#90_KB3PQD Posted on: Aug 30th, 2007, 8:17am
WOW ! That's looking so awsome. A little paint spots but that's nothing. Can't wait untill you get it done.
 
 KB3PQD signing out
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Aug 30th, 2007, 11:23am
George, great stuff.  it's nice to see the erie cab getting a facelift.  the new windows look fantastic , it's amazing how a window can change the look of something  that much.  This is a great thread, I have learned alot about wood car construction. keep it coming .  Ray III
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 30th, 2007, 1:31pm

 
   Holy cow, George,
 
   Your gonna make that thing so pretty, I'm going to be afraid to run it. It sure looks good!! Thankyou so much for all the workmanship your putting into that old car.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
 
  ps
  Glad you enjoyed yet another Ben story.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 30th, 2007, 4:10pm
hi all,
 
bruce r -  you are most welcome, but it is i who should be thanking you for sticking with me and helping to guide my journey in live steam.  there's one question i'm dying to know...do you like bright red or tuscan red?  the erie apparently used any kind of paint they could get their hands on, so the choice is yours!?  btw, pockets and i have kicked around the idea of creating a plastic cover for your caboose...just like mom had over the sofa in the livingroom!
 
to all - thank you for your comments and confidence, i really appreciate it.  the legacy erie caboose continues to be one of my favorite projects...why?  because it is a rebuild/restoration, i am both confined and unleashed to do what is right by the car.  while i've done other types of restorations (hot rods, boats, ect), this is the first railcar that i've worked on that wasn't built by me.  mcc designed simple, utilitarian, and rugged construction system that happens to produce cabeese rather nicely.  it is also a great place to start and build from.  with imagination, some education, a little bit of skill, and a tad bit of confidence, you can parlay the mcc system into anything you want.  is it the only way to build railcars? no! as my skills increase, you will see me change my techniques to produce models that are closer to scale look and technique than i've done in the past.  education is an important asset in my bag of tools.  there's a little used thread on this board about education.  i posted in it once or twice, but as much as i may sound like i'm preaching live steam, i'm a little more comfortable being in information retrieval mode.  for good or bad, i depend on you folks to be curious enough to ask questions.  
 
bobby t -  you question is a good example.  the education thread should also lead you to source materials, machinery guides, as well as prototypical railroad information and the like.  to answer your question about the windows, they are dollhouse windows.  i buy my stocks online with a supplyhouse in atlanta georgia.  on the wm caboose project, i learned to disassemble, modify, and reassemble them to the dimensions i chose.  a little experimentation and a few mistakes can teach you a lot!
 
many thanks to all who responded, now it's time to get back out into the shop.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Aug 30th, 2007, 1:31pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   Holy cow, George,
 
   Your gonna make that thing so pretty, I'm going to be afraid to run it. It sure looks good!! Thankyou so much for all the workmanship your putting into that old car.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
 
  ps
  Glad you enjoyed yet another Ben story.

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 30th, 2007, 5:34pm
Bruce,
George was good naturedly whining about the two, very prototypical, stripes up the ends of the car. Someone suggested a plastic cover, like mom kept on the new couch and only came off for "company".Someone else suggested that ol' 7597 might make good use of an RV style, full width mud flap (with blue dots, of course
 
This all transpired with our tongues firmly in our cheeks!!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 1st, 2007, 6:36pm
hi all,
 
it's been busy in the shop!  yesterday, i was able to get the 'b' end door framed out and study the undercarriage.  i wanted to stiffen it a little, but do so unabtrusively.  the way to keep the edges from curling was to install stiffening battens (sorry, i know that's a theater term, but i'm tired) on scale 4' centers (lateral floor supports).  this won't do the job over the total 13" of the floor width, but it will help when combined with the stiffness that the body will add.
 
i was able to complete this segment of the work today, here's how it looks.  what do you think?
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 1st, 2007, 6:43pm
hi all,
 
as i mentioned before, the 'b' end repairs have been completed and it was installed today.  here's a look at it.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 1st, 2007, 6:59pm
hi all,
 
last but certainly not least, i was able to prototype the endsill for those handy metal-type guys down at the bcrr to turn into steel.  i've needed to complete this segment of the rebuild for a couple of months...except that i've only been working on this project for a few weeks.  on monday, bruce r will have this in his hands to follow, modify or throw at me...lololo!
 
seriously, while trying to appear prototypical, the endsill must remain strong and capable of handling some very unprototypical eye-bolts for the safety chains.  i still need to indicate where the eye-bolts, hand-railings, and ladder go, but here's kind of a clamp-cluttered look at it now.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 9th, 2007, 8:05pm
hi all,
 
it's been a number of days since i last posted here.  between spending time at the bcrr for my friend ben's memorial service and changing shifts at work, time in the shop grows dear.  work on the legacy erie continues, but will slow down for a couple of weeks.  those who know me, know that at any one time, i've several projects going throughout the year.  the legacy erie caboose rests on a set of trucks that are legend in the live steam community here in florida.  there was no chance or reason to change that particular circumstance.   the new erie caboose, the ic caboose, and a caboose project for a private individual will all use archbar trucks that i will fabricate.  
 
as indicated, the trucks fabricated by live steam pioneer stan parker (please correct me if i got the name wrong) of the link-n-pin railroad have been in use for more than 20 something years.  harkening back to the early days of railroading, many of the old railroad bearing blocks were made of the hardwoods local to what ever area the railroad worked.  it is the same technology used in making wagon axles and wheels.   metals weren't used until speeds and loadings required a more substantial method.
 
in fabricating his trucks, mr parker made some modern improvements to the basic design.  he added bronze sleeve bearings to the wood block to keep the wear and tear of the steel axle from eating into the wooden journal box.  if you look back at the photos of the journal boxes, you'll find one very important feature...the oiling port on top of the journal box.  there's a saying in the live steam hobby, if it moves, lube it!  for this type of truck with this particular construction method it is doubly important.  both bruce r and mike k (mike k has multiple sets of these trucks) are to be commended for keeping those little easily forgotten detail in the forefront( i got greasy everytime i had to touch the trucks).  whether your journal box is wood without the sleeve or with the sleeve, failure to properly maintain them leads to abrupt failure...think of all the murphy's laws that apply!
 
for the upcoming projects, i'd prefer to use metal castings with steel bearings, but i haven't found a casting that i like yet.  so, for now, i'm experimenting with wood.  here's a view of what an hours' worth of time on my hands turned out today.  believe me, i'll turn out many more before i'm happy with them!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Sep 10th, 2007, 3:58pm
George, that journal box looks like it would make a great mold to cast some steel ones. Let me know if you decide to cast some, I just might be in the market for some.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 10th, 2007, 4:49pm

 
   George,
 
   Might I make a suggestion. Use some kind of bronz or as I like to do for rotateing shafts, "oil-lite" bushings imbedded in those beautiful wooden jounal boxes. Steel on steel is not a good thing to do. Only MHO based on being an old time mechanic for all of my working career.
 
   BTW, the "floor" of the old Erie caboose looks great. Along with the rest of the project. Thanks again.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 17th, 2007, 7:53pm
hi all,
 
i'm in the middle of making more 'lumber' for the legacy erie roof...not much to see there.  the project will resume shortly.
 
i'm also trying to find some 16 quarter rock maple to make some more experiment journal boxes and perhaps a pattern for a mold.  who knows, i may learn how to cast metals eventually!  stay tuned!
 
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 18th, 2007, 8:42pm
hi all,
 
got a chance to make just about all the sawdust i needed!  here's how it looked earlier today.  the bruce caboose is about to get a roofs...er, roof.  dang, that almost rhymes?!  i know, just build the darn things.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 18th, 2007, 8:46pm
hi all,
 
here's a closer view.  the roof still needs longitudinal support and final fitting before roofing begins.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 18th, 2007, 8:50pm
hi all,
 
speaking of roofing, i got that cut today too!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 18th, 2007, 9:10pm
Amazing, isn't it? From kindling to caboose in 397 easy steps!!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Sep 18th, 2007, 10:52pm
Don't say that too loud or Bruce will try to steam up his Atlantic with it.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 29th, 2007, 7:26pm
hi all,
 
the thick-n-thin lumber company has been busy again.  just about all the roofing lumber has been cut to size and the longitudinal supports have been shaped.  i will be doing the final fitting for them tomorrow.  with any luck, i'll be gluing in the supports and start laying in the roof lumber.  i still have some roof hardware that i have to pickup and install, but that will come in the next few days.
 
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 30th, 2007, 8:08pm
hi all,
 
even with all the home repairs, i was able to start the fitting up of the roof supports.  here's how it began:
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay-like loco
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 30th, 2007, 8:27pm
okay, so the last photo wasn't clear about what was going on.  in the photo below, you can start to see the 2 outer longitudinal supports held by to the clamps.  the roof support frame needs to be strong, but light...heaven forbid anybody 'accidently' sitting on the roof.  know this, it will happen!  the trick is to build the roof strong enough to handle more than 60% of the load before major damage is done.  there are cars built to ride on or in, but where the detailing is a finer quality, people and details don't generally mix.  there are far too many people handling our cars that don't know how to do it properly.  if you are going to assist in the unloading/loading or even re-railing, ask the owner about safe handling of their equipment.  it will save anger and frustration on their part, embarrassment and an expensive hit on your wallet!   there's an unwritten rule in the hobby...if you break it, then you repair it, you buy it, or you replace it.
 
forewarned is forearmed!  your attention to safe handling of the equipment of others has it's reward as well.  you'll earn the privilege of its use!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay-like loco
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 30th, 2007, 8:35pm
hi all,
 
this photo should clarify the earlier pictures.  the outer support has set so that one of the inner supports can be installed.  see the photo below:
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 30th, 2007, 8:40pm
hi all,
 
while the glue had a chance to set on the front roof supports, i started working on the rear 'b' end supports.  take a look!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 2nd, 2007, 6:32pm
hi all,
 
work on the erie caboose continues!  not as fast as i'd like, but after all, this is a hobby.  i'm lucky that i don't have to follow a set of plans or have to hammer out an assembly line full of these cars.  all i have to do is follow what i've built in my mind's eye.  i'm proof that if i can do it, any darn fool can have at it!  
 
here's how it looks tonight!  the outer (wider) roofing lumber overlays the ledger-board and the car siding with enough material to still have some strength to attach to the roof supports.  just about all my woodworking projects are glued together with minimum of metal fasteners.  in the case of the roof, i'm using 5/8 brads as clamps to hold the assembly together until the glue sets.  rather than pull them, they are driven into the roof assembly until flush.  storm gathering outside, so i will post more when it has passed.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 4:47pm
hi all,
 
okay, so the storm lasted longer than i did.  working an early shift requires certain sacrifices.  anyway, here's some more of what was done the other day.  on the last couple of projects, i started exploring ways to anchor the roof sections to keep them from getting lost in a stiff breeze or popping up due to a bad rail joint.  in talking to guys like bruce r and pockets, i was reminded of the use of blind nuts.  an essentially flat threaded fastening device that allows you to use bolt and nut in situations where there's not enough space for a nut.  in the case of the legacy erie caboose, the blind nut is next to the roof section while the bolt feeds through the cupola section and part of the roof section.  when the roof section slides over the bolt, that section is held firm.  the forward part of the roof section then wedges behind the caboose end wall.  i still need to fasten that particular end, but more on that later.
 
here's a close-up photo of the blind nut installed on the 'b' end cupola section.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 4:53pm
hi all,
 
now that you know what to look for, here's a photo with a broader perspective of how the system is mounted.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 5:00pm
hi all,
 
one more photo before i go back out to the shop.  i like prototyping and fabricating, so before even one drop of glue is applied, the whole assembly is tested for proper fit.  it is easier to fix a problem before assembly than after!  here's a photo of the 'b' end roof support prior to assembly.  more soon!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: Anthony_SRR Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 6:05pm
It is looking good moose. You have been making some great progress. Can’t wait to see the finished product.
 
Anthony
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 7:03pm
George , the erie cab is really  coming back to life under your care. I'm learning a bunch watching and reading this thread, thanks for sharing your progress.  Ray III
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Oct 4th, 2007, 4:18pm
Off Topic......slightly:  
 
Moose, I know that you are into the steam era cars, have you checked out this web-site?  
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/index.html  
They have some great photo's and info on various steam era cars.
Bobby
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Oct 4th, 2007, 4:51pm

 
   George,
 
   I can't thank you enough for all the great work you are doing on my poor old ERIE caboose. Its going to be a LOT better than it started out when new. It never did have that nice of a roof!  
 
   Thanks again,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 16th, 2007, 7:53pm
hi all,
 
after several weeks of some highs and some lows(i lost almost 119 gig worth of information when my data drive crashed...oh well), i'm back in the shop again.  working on a caboose is the one constant that keeps me smiling(not to mention you folks).
 
here's a pic of the work done so far.  yes, the legend boards are going on!
 
enjoy,  
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 16th, 2007, 7:57pm
hi all,
 
i had an offline question of why i put all those clamps on the end of the roof.  here's a pic of what they were asking about.
 
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 16th, 2007, 8:06pm
hi all,
 
the answer to the question is that since i started using thinner roofing materials, i use fewer metal fasteners to hold them in place.  in fact, i wouldn't use any if i could do without them.  the roof lumber is edge-glued to each other as well as the support system below.  the clamps are there to hold them in registration until the glue dries.  the brads as seen in the upper part of the photo are acting as clamps to hold averything down to the support system.  here's a picture of the end of the process.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 22nd, 2007, 5:54pm
hi all,
 
work has continued on the erie legacy caboose.  here's a better picture of how the legend boards clean up the erie's look.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 22nd, 2007, 5:59pm
hi all,
 
here's a look at the 'b' end.  the platform fascia board and supports are next.  it's coming together!
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: SRC#90_KB3PQD Posted on: Oct 22nd, 2007, 6:18pm
Looking good moose. Can't wait to see it when it's done.
KB3PQD signing out
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 25th, 2007, 5:22pm
hi all,
 
my home took a lightning strike on tuesday, no one hurt, but have set about replacing damaged equipment.  lost my communications modem, part of the irritation system(yes, i know it's irrigation), a dvr, and a brad nailer.  compared to some, not that bad, just irksome.  
 
i will be back working in the shop tomorrow!
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Oct 26th, 2007, 5:53pm
George, I am sorry to hear about your misfortune. But the fact you are OK and the house is still standing is enough to be thankful for. As they say, it coulda been worse.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 28th, 2007, 8:08pm
hi all,
 
bobby: thank you for your kind words, and thank you to all who responded privately.   compared to the losses of our friends and neighbors in south florida a couple of years ago and those of the west coast, the damage to my home was minor.  yes, it could have been much worse, but i'm thankful for the many blessings i've been given.
 
speaking of blessings, with the replacement of the brad-nailer, the erie legacy caboose got some work done on it today!  the 'b' end roof was completed along with receiving the legend boards and roof-end fascia.  here's how it looks tonight.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 28th, 2007, 8:25pm
hi all,
 
here's a look at one of the processes to get to the semi-finished look above.  in this photo, i've decided to add some more support to the legend boards that become part of the platform roof structure.  well in the 1-to-1 world it would, but because i'm building a removal roof the legend boards that remain are fragile.  my partial solution is to thicken the legend board beyond the end of the carbody.  my other problem was to find ways to hide the roof supports that hold the portion of the roof extending beyond carbody.  the roof-end fascia board 'notches' into the legend board hiding the true thickness.
 
the ideal solution as suggested by pockets would be to convert all my legend boards to steel...because they would then make convenient carry handles!  i guess i'll be investing in alot of walther's goo.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 28th, 2007, 8:43pm
hi all,
 
i was also able to get quite a bit of the cupola roof support cut out and fitted today.  in the past, i've done both removable and fixed roofs, but i've not been totally pleased with fact that weather effects the support elements of the first removable roof system i built.  on another project, i built a system that so far has held up well to weather changes.  doesn't sound familiar?  unless well sealed, wood changes dimensions with the amount of humidity (moisture) available.  sometimes, even with superior sealing, you just can't win!  once wood changes, it doesn't want to return to it's prior form.  rather than create a more complicated shape, i'm trying for a basic shape...one that doesn't change as drastically.  in the photo below, i'm installing one of the two blocks of wood that the roof supports will rest on.  later on this week, i'm make two saddles that will be glued between the window openings  to hold the entire system in registration.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 28th, 2007, 8:48pm
hi all,
 
here's view of both blocks in place.
 
more on this later in the week!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: Oct 30th, 2007, 11:06pm
on Oct 4th, 2007, 4:18pm, B+MNW21201 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Off Topic......slightly:  
 
Moose, I know that you are into the steam era cars, have you checked out this web-site?  
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/index.html  
They have some great photo's and info on various steam era cars.
Bobby

 
Bobby, this is a great site!  Thanks for sharing.  A couple more that Moose may be interested in, is the 1903 Carbuilders Cyclopedia on google books:
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=nnwkAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=car+builders+cyclopedia#PPP1,M1
 
Also the 1879 Carbuilders Dictionary:
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=jBZsGubsg2EC&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=1879+carbuilder+dictionary&source=web&ots=h_HnGhu7BO&sig=R-_Zu6bEMI20jVHlobsVLMGIVAo
 
 
Both are available as a free download.  Lots of photos, plans, terminology and car details.
Dan Watson
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Nov 9th, 2007, 9:55am

 
   George,
 
   Sorry for not catching up with you lately. Something that went through my mind recently. I don't know if we ever mentioned the age of that caboose of mine. I know I purchased it from the second owner that I knew about. And that was like 1992 or so. It probably is about twenty five plus years old. And as has been mentioned, the trucks are even older.
 
   Thanks so much for the very nice rebuilding job that you are accomplishing with this very time worn piece of equipment.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 20th, 2007, 1:35pm
hi all,
 
with all the recent doings, i haven't been able to get much done.  my apologies to recent posters like bruce, dan, anthony, and ray for not acknowledging your posts.  thank you for sticking with me!  life gets in the way sometimes...at times pleasant (my trip to l.a. to visit pockets and swmbo was certainly a highlight) and at times unpleasant(a lightning strike).  usually on 'nightshift' i don't get alot of time in the shop, but for a quirk in scheduling, i'm home for part of the day...so.  on the 'a' end roof, i finally got the fascia boards fitted and glued in.  here's a look...sorry, all i got were the clamps?!  i will get a better view of it tomorrow.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 20th, 2007, 1:47pm
hi all,
 
today marked the beginning of the detailing work on the erie caboose.  while there is still several items of structural construction left (doors, cupola roof, steel endsills, and some under-body details), i'm getting to the point where getting the body primed and painted is becoming an important next step.  as each roof section is completed, i can now install the 'tar paper'.
 
here's a look and clue about how i do it!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 22nd, 2007, 11:22am
hi all,
 
thanksgiving day is upon us!  other than railroading, railcar building, and cruising, my favorite activity is sharing with family and friends.  on this day of thanksgiving, i'm not only reminded of having a great bunch of folks gather round for dinner today, but also the many friends here on railfan.  happy thanksgiving everybody!
 
hey bruce and greg, i wish you guys were here to help me stuff a cornish hen into a duck, then a goose, and finally the turkey!  boy, am i going to be tired! my best thoughts and wishes to each of you.
 
george - moose the caboose
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Nov 22nd, 2007, 1:26pm
Thanks, George. The best to you and yours, on this day. Bruce is traveling and My wish is that he have a safe and happy holiday. I'll have a piece of that duck and a slice of that goose... Oh, and some of those candied yams.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 28th, 2007, 7:56pm
hi all,
 
with  the turkey holiday over, it's back out into the shop again.  in the last photo, you saw how the roofing 'paper' was installed.  in the photo below, here's the look once it was trimmed to fit.  the 'paper' is sawn with a fret-saw, not cut with a knife.  the paper shop towels are too thick to cut that way, tearing results...so do tears when you have to redo it.
 
also, the internal roof support system for the cupola roof has been installed.  it's time to assemble the roof section and get it covered!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 28th, 2007, 8:10pm
hi all,
 
some of you may have noticed the additional details being added onto the bottom-side of the 'a' end platform roof.  i'm exporing to use of thinner roofing lumber, something on the order of 1/8th.  that makes this portion the roof a bit flexible.  the additional rib-support helps stiffen the platform portion.  in the photo below, there's a better view of the process.
 
please note, when you use the paint-n-paper towel 'tar paper' method, the roof paint will need more than 72 hours to completely cure.  that's why i'm using scrap blocks of wood between my clamps and the work.  believe me, it will leave a mark if you don't.  you could just wait for the complete cure, but i'm kindda on a schedule.  gotta keep movin'.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Nov 28th, 2007, 10:01pm

 
   George,
 
   Your workmanship is just throwing me right to the floor. I can't believe the improvements that your makeing to that old car. WOW.
 
   Thank you my friend,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 30th, 2007, 6:39pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  no, i thank you for the many opportunities for learning that you steered my way.  what i do now, is an absolute pleasure!
 
to all:  every now and then, it pays to stand back and really look at your work.  too many times, we let our egos get in the way of honest thinking and planning.  the erie legacy caboose isn't a unique type of railcar, but in reality, for it's age in this hobby, it is.  the process you've been watching is a hobby restoration/rebuild.  notice that i didn't say museum restoration/rebuild.  there's a difference.  in a museum job, i wouldn't have done any new construction or new type of construction that wasn't in the original build.  in most cases, i would have simply preserved what was already there.  in a hobby restoration/rebuild, the decision process for what must be done, what can be done, and what shouldn't be done aren't so stringent.  in other words, i can add/subtract to/from the original build to enhance functionality, durability, and overall appearance.  so.....i took another look at the caboose today and decided that it really does want to be more like an erie caboose.  even though the level of difficulty went up slightly today, i think it is worth the try.  here's a look at how it was going to be.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 30th, 2007, 7:02pm
hi all,
 
in the previous post, i was outlining an aesthetic design change.  the long and short of it is that since my friend bruce is from erie-land, i wanted his caboose to better reflect that which says, "i'm an erie caboose!"  earlier today, i went roaming through my reference collection of cab photos and found what i was looking for...an old erie cab from the 1904 to the 1930's era.  that's the look i wanted to put together for bruce.  here's a cab-end view from the m&njrhs collections to show you what i mean.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 30th, 2007, 7:37pm
hi all,
 
here's where i'm going with bruce's erie caboose.  it's not an exact model of the erie, but gives a hint of the old 'look' that is missing from most of the equiment in the hobby.   it also creates an individualistic character that more than 90% of the hobby misses out on because they whip out their checkbook for a cookie-cutter model.  what i'm saying is that with a little patience, searching, and time, you can have a model that is in effect, a one-off that started life as a cookie-cutter caboose.
 
here's a photo of what i did today.  compare it to the 1-to-1 photo and see if you agree that it is worth a try?!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 30th, 2007, 7:55pm
hi all,
 
in the photo below, i'm showing how i'm going to install the new work.  this piece actually sits behind and below the roof fascia board.  the roof nestles into it.  not shown in the photo is the additional support that will help keep it in place.  it will also support and be supported by the handrails, ladder, and other wirework.  if i take care, the caboose can be restored to it's prior look by the craftsman that follows me.  as many of us have come to understand, with good stewardship, these railcars really can outlive us and be our gift to the generations of live steamers to come.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 30th, 2007, 8:05pm
hi all,
 
here's a better view of how it goes together.  the work could have been done with a  router, but since i have to become a little more intimately acquainted with my fret-saw in a couple of months(please don't ask why, it would be off topic...way off topic!), i decided to use it instead.  everything was cut 'proud' and hand-fitted...about 3 hours work, now i have to do a second one?!
 
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 6th, 2007, 6:36pm
hi all,
 
it's been busy around the house with honey-do repairs, but i did get a chance to get back to the shop for some more work on the 'b' end platform roof.  in a previous picture, i show the new work placed where it will live, but not attached or supported.  in the photo below, the support system is taking shape.  for those who want to keep it simple, you can simply attach the piece to the bottom of the roof section.  i'm adding some complexity to it because i want to permanently attach the ladders and hand railings to it rather than do it the way i've done it in the past.  the piece will get additional support in the corners, but won't show the bulk until the roof section is removed.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 6th, 2007, 6:42pm
hi all,
 
in addition to the 'b' end roof work, i was also able to work on the cupola roof section.  here's a view of it tonight.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Dec 7th, 2007, 6:53am
Hey, that is starting to look like a caboose!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 8th, 2007, 1:39pm
hi all,
 
since yesterday afternoon, the erie legacy caboose has undergone some more changes.  i had a chance to create the catwalk roof saddles, so i did!  they are in-place on both the 'a' and 'b' end roofs.  the saddles are placed on 18" centers following prototypical practice, but they could have been placed on 24" centers depending on the railroads' engineering practice.  most people think in terms of current lumber sizes...they're not quite correct.  for instance, the catwalk lumber to them would be either 1x4's or 1x6's or by today's measurements, 3/4x3 1/2's or 3/4x 5 1/2's.  in the lumber industry, product is ordered by 1/4's... even now.  the railroads' for the most part, used 5/4 lumber in places where a man had to walk.  the 4/4 lumber of today wouldn't carry a man's weight for very long without additional support.  that support gets expensive...see where i'm going?
 
here's a look at how they look with the catwalk lumber just laid on them.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 8th, 2007, 1:45pm
hi all,
 
here's a closer view of the work done last night.  the catwalk lumber won't be attached until everything on the roof is primed and painted.  today, the body and undercarriage are being primed for finishing.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 8th, 2007, 10:09pm
hi all,
 
tonight, the chassis and the body are back together, semi-permanently.  most of the priming was accomplished today, but will need another coat just prior to color coat.  today was also the day i would find out my hardware needs.  because this was a rebuild/restoration, i used the original under-carriage hardware.  what i have run into was the original expedient, but in-elegant solution for attaching the side-bearing body bolster(2 - 1/4x20tpix2"  carriage bolts per bolster side).  the photo shows my problem (the new bolts are 3" and show up better).  i decided to relieve the bolster holes to receive some blind nuts and then attach the side bearing bolsters with 1/4x20tpi bolts that have been shortened to be flush with the car floor.  on permanent installation, they will receive a light coating of thread-locker to keep them from shaking loose.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 8th, 2007, 10:44pm
hi all,
 
today was the day that i also brought the 'a' end up to the level of finish that the 'b' end enjoys.  in this photo, the door opening is being trimmed out to receive the door.  i left the 'a' end until last trying to make up my mind if i wanted to correct a mistake by the original builder...the door wasn't cut square.  for him, that wasn't a problem,  mountain car company as the kit manufacturer recommended that simplicity's sake, that the door be a false-face attached on the inside of the car.  the delimma?  would correcting the mistake cause consternation later on(there's a movement for folk-art type artifacts to preserve the builder's 'personality', er, mistakes).  my decision to proceed with the correction came about because restoring the car to an original state can still be done when all my changes have been removed.  the correction simply takes the doorway to the original dimensions, no more, no less.  what ever the future holds, the car must still provide the owner with functionality and appeal to his tastes.  therefore, it will get functioning doors.
 
others may not go through these thought processes and just launch into whatever they want to do, but i try think through every change i make to someone else's rollingstock.  there's an old saying that says that no matter how good you are, there's always someone better.  if a builder puts his heart into his work, the work reflects it.  for me, this car should be worthy of it's owner.  that's my goal!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 8th, 2007, 11:02pm
hi all,
 
the final photo for tonight.  yes, bobby, it's starting to look more like a caboose!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose and shay
Posted by: C_S22 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2007, 10:28am
List
 
Wasn't sure where to put this. I came across this supplier, it applies to this thread. They make some beautiful marker lamps and switch lamps.
 
www.bryterails.com
Cam
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2007, 11:00am

 
   George,
 
   All I can say is "Thankyou". You are sure giveing that poor old car a re-birth.
 
   Cam,
 
   How did you know that I need to install some really,,, REALLY nice marker lamps on this caboose. With the tremendous improvements that George has done, nothing else but high quality lamps would do.
 
   Take care guys,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 17th, 2007, 6:32pm
hi all,
 
with the holidays drawing on, it's been busy both at work and at home.
 
bruce:  you are most welcome, but it's i who thank you for your steadfast friendship.  the caboose is an absolute pleasure to work on.
 
to all: the work continues, the 'a' end is now more complete than the 'b' end.  the 'b' end still needs the external bracing installed.  in handling the new platform extentions, i found that additional bracing was called for, here's how the 'a' end turned out.   this is a new structure that had to be 'prototyped' and definitely not one that i've seen used before in 1 1/2" scale.  the structure adds to the difficulty and delicacy of the model, but aids in bringing it closer to the erie look.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 17th, 2007, 7:16pm
hi all,
 
tonight, here's how the erie legacy caboose looks...a little different from when you last saw it.  the catwalks have been added and the whole roofing system given it's first coat of black paint.  the smoke jack is in, but still needs a couple of details.  with the roof, i'm closing in on being semi-completed.  when in final paint, the brassworks will complete the detailed look.  the next piece of construction will be to put final trim fascia around the cupola roof.  what else is still to come?   i've decided to add platform extensions to each side of the caboose to move the steps closer to the edge where they belong, rather than where mcc put them.  the work will be removable in case someone wishes to retro the car back to standard mcc configuration.  from then on, it will be detail work!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 17th, 2007, 7:30pm
hi all,
 
remember the photo showing the bolts coming through the floor?  today, i was able to get about half of the blind nuts or tee nuts as some call them, installed on the 'a' end.  after the car has been evaluated for balance and suspension movement,  the bolts will be marked, trimmed, and re-installed one last time.  they should be flush with the floor, making not only a better installation, but free the space for other things...perhaps an interior?!  here's a look at them now without trimming.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Dec 17th, 2007, 10:29pm

 
   George,
 
   There is'nt a whole lot I have'nt already said about the wonderful rework that you peforming on my old MCC caboose. I never figured it would take on a whole new/old look. Which is great, I might add.
 
   Thank you so much,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 23rd, 2007, 7:06pm
hi all,
 
the moose is loose upon the horizon!  Merry Christmas to one and all!  
 
moose the caboose and a bottle of rum!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 1st, 2008, 9:10pm
hi all,
 
back from my mexican set-to or siesta or hi-jinks on the high seas (well, 1 1/2 to 4 foot seas most of the time).  i started working on prototyping the step-units and extentions on sunday afternoon.  the extentions push the step-units out to where they should be to give a more proto-typical look.  if you look back at the end view photo of the erie hack i posted earlier, you'll see what i mean.  mcc adopted a look all their own, so it didn't exactly comform with the erie look i wanted for bruce.  the extra work that i've done can still be reversed by a careful craftsman.  here's a view of the extentions and underlying support.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 1st, 2008, 9:27pm
hi all,
 
here's the look that i'm going after.  i think it's a bit of improvement over the mcc treatment, especially for the erie.  whadda ya think?  in the future, i'm going to experiment with steel, masonite and styrene plastics to see if i can come up with step-units that are sturdy and easy to assemble.  for now, i'll stay with the 1/4 inch and 3/16 inch slab popular.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 1st, 2008, 9:38pm
hi all,
 
how do the step-units get built?  it starts with a pile of itty-bitty lumber!  as i said earlier, i cut the pieces out of slab popular using my own templates.   the step-units consist of 2 side frames, 3 steps, and 1 kickplate.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 1st, 2008, 9:38pm

 
   George,
 
   Absolutely BEAUTIFUL!! You litteraly are turning the proverbial sow's ear into a silk purse. I can't thank you enough.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 1st, 2008, 9:52pm
hi all,
 
with the individual pieces cut and sanded, they are ready for assembly.  the kickplate was miter-cut on top and bottom to match the angle of the back of the step-unit.  usually, i use a jig to hold everything together until the glue dries, but these particular units require that filler putty be added to create a more uniform look.  the assembly begins by glueing the two sideframes to the kickplate.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 1st, 2008, 10:14pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  you are entirely welcome, i'm just sorry that it's taking this long!  i keep finding new ways to improve the look and make it say "i'm an erie caboose!"
 
to all:  with both side frames in place, it's time to hand-fit the steps into place.  now the fun begins!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 1st, 2008, 10:36pm
hi all,
 
the step-units weren't the only thing that got some attention today, remember the photo of the 1/4 inch bolts sticking up through the floor?  they're gone!  i did some tinkering with the suspension system today, but cha know, with this car running for so long under bruce's care, i needn't have worried.  i found that i was able to trim and re-install.  due to the holidays, i couldn't get a fresh bottle of threadlocker, so i'll eventually run them out and back in when i get it.  so you old home remedy folks, i've tried using a boiled concoction of sugar and water to create a thin syrup.  when dabbed onto a bolt, it works...but draws ants!  it's funny to watch a colony of ants try to haul away your hardware.  here's the interior tonight.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Jan 2nd, 2008, 7:04am
Moose, she is looking great but I have one question. Given the amount of labor you have invested into transforming the sow's ear into a silk purse, wouldn't it have been alot easier to have just started from scratch?
 
Bruce isn't the only one that is anxiously awaiting the unveiling of the finished product.
 
Bobby
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 2nd, 2008, 11:10pm
hi all,
 
bobby:  to answer your question, yes, it would have been easier to start from scratch.  having said that, you can't replace all the memories generated by this one car.  patrick sky once wrote a tune 'many a mile' that has a hook verse that says 'its many a mile i have been on this road...and many a mile i will go.'  that in itself, describes this railcar and bruce's many journeys with it.  i started this project as a rebuild, it became a rebuild, restore, and enhance project.  this particular caboose is well known in most of the live steam circles, so i had to keep most of the original configuration as part of the restoration.   the rebuilding is also restoring parts of the 'mcc model' that have become damaged or lost.  the enhancement is to bestow additional character of the home railroad as befits bruce's personality.  all of this in addition to the fact that i didn't want to hide the original identity as a mcc railcar.  mcc wooden railcar kits are generally the first commercial stepping stones into the hobby that some of the newbies get.  they put forth a method of construction that is both noteworthy and reliable.  i can't tell you how many times i've gazed upon the work of a live steam gerf and wondered why did they do it that way.  i saw one railcar built as a plywood box without a floor and/or centersill....why?  they had installed wooden bolsters to mount the trucks on and c-channel pockets for the couplers.  what will happen when the car is cut into a train?  there are many ways to build railcars.  my way of doing it is one of the easier ways to get it done without a heavy investment in machinery.  in my mind, having some working knowledge of railroad physics, along with some mechanical ability, and some common sense means that i can build railroad equipment...it's just small, thats all.  there's a lot more to it, but it means that i'm not like some of the lionel folks, running in circles without knowing how or why it happens.
 
i build new cars all the time, rarely do i have the opportunity to rebuild legacy equipment.  rarer still, do i get the opportunity to do something nice and show my appreciation to one of my mentors...bruce.  rebuilding is sometimes a better way to challenge your skills than building new.  to do a credible job, your skills have to be equal to or better than the original craftsman in order not to stick out like a sore thumb.  
 
there is a truer model of an erie caboose on the drawing board, and yes, it's bruces'.  i still have other projects that have to be done before i can get to it.  that's why i want to get this one back to him, i will soon need the building space and i think he's starting to miss seeing the erie caboose behind ole 7597!
 
to all:  there are too many people in the hobby that buy legacy equipment just to part it out for resale or what have you.  too much of our history has been lost that way.  evey piece of equipment has a story to tell, what is yours saying?  would i trash the erie because i could?  as one of our patriots once said, "NUTS!"(not aimed a you, bobby)  what do you folks think?
 
btw...here's a look at the cupola with its fascia trim in place.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Jan 2nd, 2008, 7:04am, B+MNW21201 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moose, she is looking great but I have one question. Given the amount of labor you have invested into transforming the sow's ear into a silk purse, wouldn't it have been alot easier to have just started from scratch?
 
Bruce isn't the only one that is anxiously awaiting the unveiling of the finished product.
 
Bobby

Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 3rd, 2008, 7:31pm

 
  Man, I'm going to have to put that thing in a glass case Geoge. Heh,heh, you know that won't happen. I run way to much and to hard for that to happen!!  
 
   I just hope that some of the folks that drift through here and like to talk about what others have done, take a look at what you are doing with what was a rather plain piece of equipment. That was also beat up to boot.
 
   I'm sure we all, includeing Bobby, he,he,he, will enjoy and appreciate you workmanship when the Erie caboose gets back down to SW Florida. Thanks again George for your attention to detail.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce  
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 10th, 2008, 6:36pm
hi all,
 
it's been a long week!  i've managed to get back into the swing of things back at work....dang!  work on the erie legacy caboose continues.   in the past week i've gotten all the step-units constructed and as you've seen in prior photos, the platform extensions have been installed.   the step-units still need a little sanding and shaping before they can be primed and painted.  due to their gingerbread nature, they will be one of the last items to be installled.
 
a couple of days ago, the undercarriage was primed with the hardware installed and today, received it's first coat of black paint.  i've decided not to add an mcc style tool box (a block of wood with a piece of siding on it), but to wait until i could build a couple of metal boxes like those found on the old erie cabs.  more than likely, they will be constructed from brass much the same way as the lanterns for the bobber caboose.  which by the way, will return to the shop once the erie caboose has been returned to bruce-the-smaller.    as of this afternoon, bruce's windows are in as are the kerosene lanterns for alex's bobber caboose.  i will be experimenting with them to see if i can add a grain-o-rice lamp to make them work...we'll see!  no, really see!  in the next few days, i'll be modifying the windows to fit and get them ready for paint.  i promise that i will take pictures and post them soon.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Jan 3rd, 2008, 7:31pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
  Man, I'm going to have to put that thing in a glass case Geoge. Heh,heh, you know that won't happen. I run way to much and to hard for that to happen!!  
 
   I just hope that some of the folks that drift through here and like to talk about what others have done, take a look at what you are doing with what was a rather plain piece of equipment. That was also beat up to boot.
 
   I'm sure we all, includeing Bobby, he,he,he, will enjoy and appreciate you workmanship when the Erie caboose gets back down to SW Florida. Thanks again George for your attention to detail.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce  
 
  

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 12th, 2008, 8:55pm
hi all,
 
after spending the morning hauling all the dead computers and tvs to a 'secure' disposal site for swmbo, i was finally able to get back into shop.  this weekend was supposed by see the erie in it's first coat of color.  well...it is in a way, i was able to separate the base from the carbody and painted the floor green, albeit a pale green.  while i had the chance and the paint, i painted the interior in a nice warm beize, an almost sand tone.   here's how it looks tonight!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 12th, 2008, 9:19pm
hi all,
 
well, maybe the green floor isn't sooooo pale, but once the peel-n-stick linoleum is installed and a few throw rugs put in...it'll be just like home!  aaahhh, maybe not.  what's in store for the future for this interior?  at some point, i'll install some interior lighting (shadow boxes for the windows and doors), but for now, i'll install caboose marker lamps and the control circuitry (that's why the cupola roof is removable).  there's room within the body to handle a full size battery and an inverter if christmas lights are desired.  anyway, here's a closer view of the interior.  the second coat of primer paint of the exterior is still too green to work with so i'll start the doors tomorrow and save the wire-work for a time when the exterior color has been applied and cured.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 12th, 2008, 9:33pm
hi all,
 
the step-units are finally...just about finished!  they'll need a little light sanding and another coat of paint then they will be reserved for final installation.  here's how they turned out.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Jan 16th, 2008, 7:13am
George, it sure looks great.
 
I found this article on making modern steel steps, I thought you might find the technique useful for future reference: http://www.shastapacific.com/cabstep.htm
 
What is you next project?  
 
Bobby
Posted by: Anthony_SRR Posted on: Jan 16th, 2008, 3:45pm
Man, it sure is looking good Moose. Can’t wait tom see the details but on it like the Marker lights. It sounds pretty neat as to what could happen with the battery. Very impressive
 
Anthony
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 16th, 2008, 7:54pm

 
   George,
 
   I am humbled by the tremendous improvements you've made to my poor old wooden caboose. Never did I ever expect such wonderful changes. I almost can't remember what it used to look like. Maybe thats a good thing!!
 
   Thankyou my friend, thankyou.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 16th, 2008, 9:13pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  the thanks are entirely mine.   it takes alot to stick with a friend through thick and thin, you've done that.  as much fun as our 'hobby' is, there's a few people who can only see to the point of their nose, their chequebooks, or their own ego's at times.  if you remember, when i initially brought the running chassis of the blue welder to the track for testing and evaluation, there was a group of guys of which you were a part that said that "it (the chassis) would never stay on the track!"  you were the only one in that group to re-evaluate the chassis before it had moved 10 ft and said, " this thing may never come off the track!"  it was at that point, that you asked me where the design had come from and i mentioned mr. yoder.   by the end of the day, i'd changed a few minds.  your only criticism (quite valid), given truthfully and without malice, was that the front pilot beam was too low.  to this day, the blue welder very seldom ever stubs it's toe...except for that time at the north track during the cancer run (remember the pilot beam and side-rod catching on 'snake-head' at an auto crossing?).   yes, i remember that one!  the impact loosened the center axle that let go on the 'back 40'.  it was the only time that i had to put it in the 'dead cockroach' position and re-square the drive system in the woods without the benefit of a shop.  btw, the prior year cancer run would make another great ben s. story.  bruce, you'll have to go back to page 25, i think to see the caboose as you knew it (oops!  maybe that's where all the demolition is?!).  funny thing, i've had it sooo long, that i've started to think it would look better in orange paint!  lol!  ...oh well, maybe not.
 
to all:  as many of you already know, bruce and i go back a lot of years.  we'd been running around same fls circles since the early seventies without 'impacting' each other until the early nineties.   you just never know where or when your live steam friendships  will be made.  
 
on to the work at hand!  as i posted earlier, the windows for the erie legacy caboose are in.  so, over the last few days, i've been modifying how they fit into the caboose.  after having looked at how the window units looked (they were shortened), i decided that the individual window frames and glass panes should be modified as well.  why am i doing this?  well, if you look at how the older house windows function, you'll notice that when the window is fully closed, the top of one frame blends with the bottom of the opposite frame.  when i shortened the window unit as a whole, they no longer met in the middle.  each frame is made from 5 individual pieces of wood.  if you've ever created your own window pieces from scratch in the smaller scales, you'll understand what i'm talking about.  haha!  yes, pockets, it is a little easier than that, but not by much!  
 
speaking of windows, one of the common caboose designs has the windows dropping into a cavity below the window sill plate.  haven't mastered that yet, but who knows?
 
four more windows to modify!  the work continues, i'll post some photos soon.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Jan 16th, 2008, 7:54pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   George,
 
   I am humbled by the tremendous improvements you've made to my poor old wooden caboose. Never did I ever expect such wonderful changes. I almost can't remember what it used to look like. Maybe thats a good thing!!
 
   Thankyou my friend, thankyou.
 
   Bruce

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 20th, 2008, 6:13pm
hi all,
 
modification of the windows continues, but in recent days, i've had a couple of you ask how, specifically, how i do it.  since this is a teaching thread, here goes.
 
tip no. 1: is to learn how to listen to some of the real live steam gentlemen and craftsmen.  five or six years ago, a fellow live steamer (foster b.) from a visiting live steam group in central florida was commenting about how well i'd done building the ej&e caboose.  he was impressed by the extra detail (windows, roofing, etc) i'd added compared to most everybody else.  not only did my roof look like tar paper, but was textured like it too.  while the roof was a hit with him, he mentioned all the work i'd put into building the windows from scratch.   in our exchange, as good live steam friends do, he asked me if i'd ever visited a store specializing in dollhouse items.  i replied that no, i hadn't.  as conversations go, the topic changed rapidly enough that i didn't take the opportunity to ask him the reason for his question.  one of my favorite mentors (ben s) taught me that you can create interest in your equipment by detailing so that everytime someone sees it, there's always something they hadn't caught before.  using my background scenic construction, i knew this to be true.  want an example?  check out any of the classic b/w movies, those guys knew how to tell a story with just scenery alone.  well, a nicely detailed train is it's own story...a tableau is the fancy word for it.  bruce's goose is another perfect example, go back and view some the threads dedicated to it and you'll see what i mean.  you have to stop looking a things in a monolithic way.  usually, when i visit tracks in my area, i see equipment made up to look like lionel.  nothing wrong with that, but lionel doesn't portray life very well.  if you build your equipment just like everybody else, it will look like everbody else's.  in my case, i like building cabooses, so if there was a yard full of cabooses, i'd like to think that someone else could pick mine out of the crowd for what's different about it.  
 
tip no 2: look at things for not what they are, but what they can become.  several months later, our group was the invited guest at the other track.  foster b. had his work-caboose on display.  wow!  for someone i'd never thought of as a super-detailer, foster had the sharpest cab i'd ever seen.  the windows were gorgeous, as were all the little details like a laundry tub, shovels, a water barrel, a fuel can, and hanging laundry on one of the platforms.  you know i had to ask!  his answer?   1" scale dollhouse items!  now i knew why he asked.
 
when i got into the hobby, money was tight.  i had to look at things for what i wanted them to be, not what they were.  i made all my own details because i had to.  i couldn't afford do it any other way.  since my visit to see foster and group, i've found the use of dollhouse windows was not only a labor-saver, but a money-saver as well.  i quickly found out that buying finished window units was cheaper than the cost of the fine grade lumber that i needed to do it myself.
 
for those of you who wanted to see my starting point, here it is, a standard dollhouse window unit.
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 20th, 2008, 7:00pm
hi all,
 
the next step is to decide to modify it.  why did i choose to do it?  scale-wise, it was too tall to look right on the erie caboose.  here's a look at the beginning of the process.  the angle marks on the upper end of the window casement are where the cuts will be made.  the old adage applies, measure twice, cut once!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 20th, 2008, 7:47pm
hi all,
 
here's a look at the window unit after the cuts have been made.  in my case, i used a fine toothed blade in my scroll saw.  you can do the same or use to use a razor saw, fret saw, or coping saw.  if you aren't a wizard with a dremel, STAY AWAY from your window units and your fingers!  use of coarse toothed saw blades will quickly turn your project into fine fire wood for really small fires.
 
more about the window units, tomorrow!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 21st, 2008, 6:26pm
hi all,
 
to continue from last night, the top fascia board has been carefully removed from its former supports and is about to be glued back in the new position.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 21st, 2008, 6:36pm
hi all,
 
the picture below shows the end result of our 'chopping' the window units.  there's still some filling and sanding to do, but this is the wanted result.  while the units now look a little better, they show the next set of problems to be solved.  plainly seen, the sliding window frames no longer align at the mid-point in the window unit.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 21st, 2008, 6:50pm
hi all,
 
to solve the problem, i had to completely disassemble two of the window frames, shorten them, then re-assemble everything.  for each of these window frames, there are six pieces of wood and the individual pane of 'glass'.  if you try this for yourself, tread easy, be patient, take your time, and measure...a lot!  this has to be done right the first time, doing it a second time means buying a complete new window unit.  the photo below shows my first effort.  just think, i have eight more frames to do!  
 
there's a little more to show, but that will have to wait until everything's been painted and ready for installation.
 
enjoy!
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 21st, 2008, 9:12pm
Holy mackeral, George, what a neat way to create caboose windows. I would have never thought of doll house windows.
Thanks again for your handiwork on my caboose.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 21st, 2008, 10:20pm
Nice piece of wood butchery, there, Moosey.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Jan 22nd, 2008, 7:20am
Wow George,......what can I say but wow!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 24th, 2008, 7:05pm
hi all,
 
it may seem that i've been quiet for a few days, but it takes work in the shop to show you the progress.  when getting close to being able to do detail work, most of the fitting and paint work must be complete or nearly so.  in my past experience, drilling all the holes for grab-irons and railings seemed a good idea until time to finally install all the pieces.  that's when you find that paint is a force to be must be dealt with.  in short, i had to re-drill the holes again.  due to the fact that i use a drill bit in a pin-vise, i usually don't wind up with any paint touch-up issues from that.   so, here's how the erie legacy caboose looks tonight!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 24th, 2008, 7:59pm
hi all,
 
there was something else going on in the shop other than windows and painting the body.  it's a surprize for bruce...remember how a couple of us kept prodding him to get a pair of caboose marker lights?  well, having spoken to him on the twisted pair, they're here and almost done!  the lanterns shown in the photo below come as bronze castings that have to be filed, painted, and assembled.  while they do come with lenses, they don't come with a lighting system.   the manufacturer leaves that for you to figure out.  in most of the installations that i've seen, changing the grain-o-rice bulbs or one of the new white l.e.d.s is no easy task.  in bruce's case, i've designed a wooden plug that can be either a friction fit or glued into place.  this wooden plug has been bored out to accept a piece of aluminum tubing (which has been glued into position).  the aluminum tubing acts as a guide for a smaller diameter tube to slide within it.  this smaller tube is the key for removing the lamp or l.e.d. when the need arises.  in the case of the grain-o-rice bulb, it needed the additional support a smaller diameter piece of brass tubing to act like a socket to hold it upright.  a small brass strip with three holes bored in it will be all that's needed to hold the lamp assembly in the lantern.  the wiring will be brought out, carefully soldered to an r/c servo connector, and then pre-installed heat shrink tubing  will be heated to make a uniform wire-form.  the servo connector slips into a receiver socket mounted permanently in the carbody.   with this system, each lantern can be removed and stored to prevent damage.  yes, when permanently mounted, most caboose lanterns get knocked off, pulled off, or otherwise come up missing.
 
here's a look at what's done so far.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 25th, 2008, 8:25pm
     
 
   H-O-L-Y   C-O-W
 
   George, I don't know if an old man like me can stand too many more surprises!!! The caboose is looking GREAT, and I"ll never tell you another thing about an item that I'm going to add to that caboose. The lamps are super.
 
   Thanks so much,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 29th, 2008, 7:03pm
hi all,
 
bruce: here's how one of the lanterns look now!  just a little touch-up and it's ready to go.
 
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 29th, 2008, 7:09pm
hi all,
 
here's one of bruce's lanterns being tested, deep in the 'dark' project laboratory!
 
bruce:  i think they are going to see you!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 29th, 2008, 7:26pm

 
   George,
 
   As I've seen many times through the years, the pics don't really show your craftsmanship. Haveing seen the other cabees that you have built, I'm sure this restoration/rebuild will be right up there with the other cars built with your hands. Those lamps are awesome!
 
   Oh, I'll never say another damn thing to you about what I'm going to purchase in this hobby, heh,heh,heh.
 
   Thanks so much,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Jan 31st, 2008, 7:57am
George,
 
That is so cool. Every new project you do, you manage to raise the detail bar ever higher. All one has to do is to look at all of your projects in order and see how each one is better than the one before. Just when we think you have reached a plateau of detail, you manage to push it further. Truly you are an old school craftsman. The youngsters would do well to learn from your posts...........I know I have. Thanks for taking the time to share and teach.
 
I am anticipating what you come up with next. Maybe a real pot belly stove that burns real coal? Hmmmmm, Bruce does have some really small coal that would work.......... Now see what you did, you got me thinking outside the box LOL
Posted by: Anthony_SRR Posted on: Jan 31st, 2008, 4:19pm
WWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is so cool George. I like it. Words can not describe now nice that looks.
 
Anthony
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 31st, 2008, 6:39pm

 
   Guys,
 
   Referring directly to my old wooden caboose, a conversation ensued on sat over at the BCRR. I don't know if George has ever mentioned the age of this particular car, but it came up in conversation.  
 
   I am the third owner that I am aware of. I purchased it in 1993 from a live steamer that has since passed away.He had purchased it from one of the original members of the Largo Central RR. I'm just guessing here, but I would say that this old caboose is about thrity five to forty years old.
 
   I'm very sure that George's handywork with give it many more years of use. Thankyou George.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Feb 5th, 2008, 9:31am
George Help!!!!!!
 
I am going through a severe case of Moose Caboose update withdrawls.  
 
Where ya hiding amigo?
Bobby
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 5th, 2008, 7:10pm
hi all,
 
bobby:  not too worry, i'm back in the shop!  
 
bruce:  i knew the cab was old, but OH MY!  that makes the restoration even more meaningful.   thank you for the opportunity!
 
to all:  over the last week, i had an 'official' visit from some folks that demanded that moose meadows manor and family lean-to get painted.  with the down-turn of the housing industry, my local 'neighborhood nazis' (house-flippers) decided that since my home wasn't in prestine condition...it needed to be so they could sell out and move on to the next place to spill misery in their wake.  my home is half my age and prettier, but wouldn't be considered 'picture perfect'.  lol!  
 
anyway, it got fixed up and painted over the last 4 or 5 days.
 
sooooo...i finally got back into the shop yesterday.  i had to prototype the complete lamp fixture setup for bruce's erie caboose.  in one of the photos i posted prior, you can see what the lantern looks like.  what i didn't have built was the actual lamp fixture.  i wanted 2 things, a lantern that could be removed for safe-keeping and a way to remove the lamp from the lantern in case it needed to be replaced.  at this time, i haven't found a socket that a lamp can readily fit into, but i'm sure that out there somewhere, there is.  for now, the grain-o-rice lamp, cordage and servo connector are an integral unit.  if the lamp burns out, the whole assembly would need to be replaced entirely or carefully disassembled.  i'm still working to improve this part of the apparatus.  bruce's lantern bases have been made to be able to be replaced or modified as i experiment and settle on a method that is simple, easy to change, and cost-effective.
 
here's a look at the lamp assembly.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose...and lean-to painter
 
 
on Feb 5th, 2008, 9:31am, B+MNW21201 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
George Help!!!!!!
 
I am going through a severe case of Moose Caboose update withdrawls.  
 
Where ya hiding amigo?
Bobby

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 5th, 2008, 7:38pm
hi all,
 
the wiring system isn't completely installed in the erie legacy caboose, but gettin' closer!  the wiring harness for the servo male-sockets are permanently mounted and inletted into the caboose body.  servo harnesses were the smallest connectors i could find.  believe it or not, dollhouse fixtures were too big.  r/c servo connectors require respect when handling, but will  serve quite nicely.  if i find something better, bruce's erie can always be updated.  here's a picture of the wiring 'ported' through the right side of the caboose.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 5th, 2008, 7:56pm
hi all,
 
with the new wiring going in, i still needed to add a control system.  for now, i want to keep it simple so off i went to the parts store.  until i change the system over to white 'leds', all i'll need is a fuse holder and an 'on-off' switch.  later, as it evolves, i'll add an electronic power supply for clean and stable voltage.  here's a picture of how the box will look within the caboose body.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 5th, 2008, 8:06pm
hi all,
 
many thanks for your patience and kind words, it really aids in staying on focus.  i sometimes worry that i'm not going to finish on time, but it is a hobby, er, more of a 'sickness' for a few of us.  there's always something else that i want to add, but fear not, bruce will have his caboose back...shortly!  tomorrow, i want to finish up the most of the electrical work and move on to the wirework.  here's a photo of the testing of the lamp assembly and onboard socket.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Feb 5th, 2008, 8:48pm

 
   George,
 
   Your workmanship on that old cab is really makeing me feel "inaddequit".
 
   again, many thanks,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 6th, 2008, 7:07pm
hi all,
 
tonight, the 'b' end wiring is all in and tested!  as pockets and i talked on the wireless pair, the 'a' end will have to wait for another time, but the expansion wiring has been installed.  the battery box will wait until almost the last item to install.  while i had the 'black' box a part, i also installed a surprize for bruce...for the future!
 
anywho, tomorrow i will try to clean up the wiring harness so that it can't be snagged or damaged.  i also hope to make so headway on the wirework.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 7th, 2008, 7:43pm
hi all,
 
i couldn't find the right size wiring loom material today, but hope to find it at one of the largest electronic flea markets in florida this weekend.  so, i was able to launch into the wirework and get some of the harder pieces cut to shape.  i'm using 1/16th inch bronze-phosphor (brass rod to most folks) welding rod for most of my delicate wire details.  this type of rod is BRITTLE and doesn't like being bent into shape, heating it to a dull cherry red color is a must if you are going do anything but a straight-line shape with it.  do your best to get it right the first time...it won't take much to break it even with re-heating.  as pockets and the rest of the old hands will tell you, metals like brass and copper work-harden quickly.  re-heating is a MUST if you need to continue working a particular shape.
 
in my case, most of my shapes are a variety of s-curves needing several re-heatings along the way.  the work isn't hard, but patience IS required.  i still have a handful of grab-iron shapes to go before i start the hard part, peening the feet of each piece flat so that i can drill a #70 hole in each one for the soldered 'bolts' to go through.  when all that is done and i didn't have to re-create any piece that breaks, i breath a sigh of relief!
 
i'll show you how i do it soon, or you can go back through some of the earlier pages of this thread and see it as it was done on the wm caboose.  the rod can be found at many of the welding supply shops across the country and can be purchased by the pound.  buying it in bulk, gives me the flexibility to practice and get it right.  i'm fairly frugal, so i end up saving my discards to be used on smaller projects.  it isn't hard to do so you might give it a try on your next project.  
 
enjoy,  
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 8th, 2008, 9:00pm
hi all,
 
i wanted to show some of the basic tools i use to create my wire shapes.  it's just as simple as the wire (naturally), a marking tool (a pencil works fine), wire cutting pliers, a small heat source (most propane torches are too large for this small work, ya get your fingers burnt too easily), a small hammer, and patience.  that's it.  being careful to re-heat any shapes that need further work, you can have most of the shapes needed for the average caboose done in a day's time.  remember to practice specific shapes (like ess curves) and learn from your mistakes.  it would be almost impossible for me to tell you exactly what temperature to heat the wire to, it depends on the alloy make-up of the wire.   a dull cherry-red is generally where most wire rods become soft enough to bend.  some rods with a higher phosphorus content are fine when the rod turns silver.  
 
no matter which rod you use, it will work-harden and become brittle again whether you bend it or shape it with a hammering tool....re-heat it frequently!  there's nothing like bending a complex shape to the last operation and breaking it because you were in a hurry.  patience is a virtue and your friend where this work is concerned.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 8th, 2008, 9:17pm
hi all,
 
in the photo above, you can see four of the corner grab-irons used on the erie cabooses.  they've already been shaped and bored to receive the 'bolt' that will hold it on the caboose.  the picture below is a closer view.  you can see that they've been re-heated several times to guard against breakage.  they aren't machine-perfect, but that lends character.  if you are looking for machine-perfect shaping, you're in the wrong era!  from the mid-1800s to the 1920s, railroad car shops still employed blacksmiths to build, repair or replace railcar appliances.
 
if you look close, you'll see that the 'feet' have been gently filed to a more rounded shape than when the excess was cut off.  yet to come, installation of the 'bolts' and final shaping before painting and installation.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Feb 9th, 2008, 6:17am

 
   George,
 
   As I'm preparing to leave my home and venture over to the BCRR this Sat. AM, I lit up the computer for just a moment and what do I see but these wonderful grab irons. George, I'm getting closer and closer to that plexiglass cover for this caboose.Ha,ha,ha.
 
   BTW, you also know who owned this cab before me. But I'm not sure if John B. owned it new or if he bought it used also. Old Ray G. purchased it from John and I purchased it from Ray. If this is the case, that would make me at least the fourth owner that I can figure. Where it came from before John B. I have no idea.
 
   Thanks again for the wonderful attention to detail your putting into my old Erie caboose.
 
   Sincerely,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 11th, 2008, 5:18pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  i guess i shouldn't show the next photo, so close your eyes and click by this post.  i got to looking at the smoke jack on your caboose and realized it was neked!   most people leave the mcc cars just as the parts come in the kit or assembled.  i've always felt something was missing...so i added a draft collar, draft collar clamp, jack stays, and a stay clamp.  here's how it looks today.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 11th, 2008, 5:30pm
hi all,
 
the steel endsills will be made once the caboose has been returned to its home rails.  to protect the step-units, i needed to make 2 temporary endsills.  they will also allow me to continue to model and place the handrailing and ladders.  here's how one of the endsills looks now.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 11th, 2008, 5:45pm
hi all,
 
one last photo for today.  the wirework continues, it's not hard to do as i've said in earlier posts, but it does require patience.  one of the details generally lacking on most cabooses in the hobby are the grab-irons on the cupola.  i usually do them and slowly, the hobby is catching up to me.  when going over some of my photos of the erie cabs, i noticed a practice used by this particular railroad that most over look.  they used 'shorty' grab-irons over the peaks of their cupola roofs.  most are full length or partials.  here's what one of them (there are 2) looks before it is finished.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Feb 11th, 2008, 8:19pm

 
   O-M-G,,,,,,I'm going to have to be soooooooo careful with this thing from now on!!!!!!!! I'm going to ask Pete and Bobby if they can construct a little pocket in the car barn for this thing to hide in.
 
   BTW, I think the end sills could be fabed out of channel. It looks like thats what you created in wood already.
 
   George, thankyou,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Feb 12th, 2008, 7:21am
Oh my! That is a sweet looking smoke stack. Nicely done.  
 
Bruce, I'm thinking the end bay nearest the steaming bays. We put a large picture window and special interior lighting to "display" your NEW caboose in the new engine house.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 13th, 2008, 7:40pm
hi all,
 
to all:  many thanks for the compliments, but this is the kind of work i'd like to see as the rule, rather than the exception.  nothing i'm doing at the moment is museum quality.  that's the journey road that i am trying to get to.  i'm not there, yet.  my current road is taking me to places where i learn new skills and try to learn from my mistakes (eh' pockets?! hehe!).   in another thread, we learned of the passing of another live steam gentleman, don miller.  what i will remember about don was his enthusiasm for talking and teaching newcomers about the hobby.   you couldn't help know that he enjoyed seeing others becoming capable live steam hobbyists.  in my former position as newsletter editor for a live steam club, i had the pleasure of speaking to don on numerous occaisions about what he and the north florida live steamers were doing.  i will miss his august presence on my visits, but hold him in my heart as one who cared and shared his passion of live steam...without reserve.  the lessons that i've learned from all my live steam friends, past and present, is to share my knowledge.  they did it for us.   bruce r, pockets, myself, and the rest of the old-hands here on railfan live steam threads hope that by doing our bit, that it will aid you and those that come behind you.  don m, ben s, john c, julian v, austin b, and all the others couldn't ask for a better legacy.
 
yesterday was the day that all the individual window frames got modified.  they were disassembled, cut, and reassembled.  it's tedious work, but not impossible if you take it slow and careful.  the next step is to modify the individual window panes and cut out the doors, that will be tomorrow's work.  the wooden sections of the windows are now ready for paint.  if it doesn't rain tomorrow, that will happen as well.  
 
today saw the creation of feet of the grab-irons.  they were first heat-treated(3 times...each time between processes), hammered to shape, drilled, filed clean, and realigned for finished shape.  this weekend will see them get their 'bolts' soldered on and painted.
 
that's alot to do...i hope i get it all done!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 17th, 2008, 9:09pm
hi all,
 
it's been a busy week at work and at home, but the erie caboose has moved forward toward the goal of returning home...shortly!  over the last couple of days, the doors have come together and in a way that i haven't done before.  if you remember the doors that i did for the wm caboose, i tried for raised panel doors, but i wasn't completely happy with the results.  not that the results were bad, just not what i really wanted.  when i began the doors for the erie, i started with the same materials i'd used on the wm doors.  i noticed that the door openings on the wm were larger than the erie, in short, the door lumber looked massive, not the looked i wanted.  it took a little time, but i think the results are worth the extra work it took to bring these doors forward to where you see them tonight.  here's a comparison photo of what i'm talking about.  on the left is the old materials and method.  on the right - thinner lumber and a raised panel insert!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 17th, 2008, 9:32pm
hi all,
 
i wanted to show how one of the erie's doors come into being.  it starts with 1/2 poplar stock re-sawn into 1/2 inch (4 sticks) and 5/8 inch (2 sticks) stock.  with that done, a 1/8 inch groove (plywood blade saw kerf) was cut in one edge of the 5/8 inch stock(2 sticks), one edge of 1/2 inch stock(2 sticks) and two edges of the remaining 1/2 inch stock.  from my stagecraft days, thats 2 - 1/2 inch stock single groove stiles, 2 - 5/8 inch stock single groove rails, and 1 - 1/2 inch stock double groove toggle.  the two rails and single toggle  are cut in such a manner as to create 'tongue' or 'tenon' that will fit into the grooves of the two stiles.  once glued in place, it looks pretty good!  here's a view of how the pieces were cut and how they fit together.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 17th, 2008, 10:08pm
hi all,
 
so now you know how the door framing was done, what about the raised-panel insert?  i've been doing it out of the same 1/2 inch stock, but it looked a little 'thick'.  i've built real doors before, so i went back to think about what i did years ago.  i was use to using a panel-cutter (special cutter-head on a table shaper), but one day, the shaper was out of service and we had a rush job to do.  with a little head scratching, i set up the largest table saw with a moving fence-clamp and set the blade at 12 degrees of angle.  it worked great!  maybe a little more sanding work than normal, but the job went out on time.  well, back to the erie, why not try that trick in a smaller scale?  
 
working with 1/4 stock, i set the blade at 12 degrees and lowered it to help spare my fingers (please don't try this if you have no experience with power saws....safety, safety, safety) and clamped it to a moving fence.  like the days gone past, it worked!  well, it worked for the long sides of the panel...even i'm not dumb enough to try it on the short sides(longer lengths can be guided over the saw blade 'pit', shorter lengths will fall in).  another solution had to be found.  
 
the finished saw cut left a 3/4 inch kerf/bevel around the two long sides.  i marked 3/4 inch lines in from the short sides for my guide for the next operation.  clamping the panels with the short side facing out on a flat surface, i found that by creating a temporary jig to guide a sanding block with 80 grit paper did the trick.  it takes a little 'arm-strong' power sanding(power sanders won't give a line of demarkation, they vibrate too much), but the results are worth it.  80 grit sandpaper works quickly, so stop frequently and measure your progress.  when you get to a 1/32 of finish (draw a line in the middle around the edges, thats your finish mark for both sides)line, change to higher number grits until 220 or 240 grit is reached.  this is the method i'd recommend you try before ever doing it with a power saw.
 
here's a view of my 'armstrong' sander!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 17th, 2008, 10:13pm
hi all,
 
here's how it looks in a semi-finished appearance without the 'glass'.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 17th, 2008, 10:18pm
hi all,
 
and you know, i had to install it...at least temporarily!  here's that view!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 17th, 2008, 10:24pm
hi all,
 
one more photo for tonight, what one of the doors looks like from the front!   i will post more...as soon as i get it done!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Feb 19th, 2008, 6:25am

 
   George,
 
   Your putting me into shock!!! This is'nt nice to do to an old man.
Thankyou for all of your hard work. And for shareing your tallents.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 19th, 2008, 8:19am
George,
That's a fine piece of work, on that raised panel door. Both sides, too....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 21st, 2008, 9:26pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  keep watchin', it's coming together!
 
pockets:  thanks for your comments, i really am starting to get where i want to work on larger quipment...i need a larger anvil!
 
to all:  progress is being made on the wirework, the photo below shows i'm over halfway done with the cupola and the 'b' end work, with the 'a' end pieces ready for fitting.  the cupola pieces are the hardest due to the 'twin' bolts that have to be silver-soldered at the same time.  this is a first for me, so there's a learning curve to it.  this weekend should see the ladders, hoops, and end-railings completed.  then there comes the mad rush to paint and final installation!  wednesday isn't THAT far away, now!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 21st, 2008, 9:32pm
hi all,
 
here's an overall view of what's been going on.  it's starting to get close to the end of the build!  there's still a lot of work to go and a few more challenges to overcome, but i think we'll make it.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 24th, 2008, 9:09pm
hi all,
 
its been a hard weekend in the shop...it rained most of saturday, so i had re-arrange the schedule to do other things that could be done.  so how did i do?   i'm a little a head and a little behind on some aspects of the total project.  the to-do list has shrunk, but still plenty to keep me busy (platform flooring, window installation, battery box installation, step-unit, wirework installation, fitting 'b' ladder hoops, ect.) 'til wednesday!
 
over the weekend, the ladders and endrailings were completed, a tiny bit of fitting-up for reliable operation left to do tomorrow night.  most of the body paint issues were taken care of saturday before the downpour, along with the exterior trim coverings for the caboose lantern electrical.  speaking of the lanterns, i also mounted the lantern bases on the side of the car.  i put that off for a while 'til i figured out what to mount them with...not screws!  it finally hit me friday night that 5/8" machine brads are a perfect fit...just pre-bore the holes and install with my special duty ca glue.  okay, i know what you're thinking.  what if i want to remove the bases in the future?  easy, a controlled 'tap' with a small nail-set gives just enough shock to break the bond without destroying the casting(it works, i did it on this project, hehe!)
 
anyway, for those of you who are wanting to see how it looks tonight, here is!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 24th, 2008, 9:23pm
hi all,
 
here's a closer view of the 'a' end roof section as well as the ladder detail.  the ladder and hoop sections fit 'pin-n-socket' style and are held in registration by two small brackets.  unfortunately, i will have to use small brass screws for this, because they do/might have to be removed once in a while.  
 
the grabirons on the cupola roof are now installed and finished along with all the cupola windows.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 24th, 2008, 9:30pm
hi all,
 
here's a closer view of the cupola.  sorry for the photos not being in sharp focus, i think the camera is just as tired as i am...dang it's gettin' hard to ypte, er, type!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Feb 25th, 2008, 8:23pm

 
   George,  
 
   Its beautifull!!! I've run out of words to compliment your work on this incarnation. But W-O-W comes to mind. Good Night Nurse are a few more!!
 
   Thankyou so much for your dedication to this project.
 
   Your friend,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 25th, 2008, 8:44pm
AMEN Although some things are conspicuous by their absence
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 27th, 2008, 11:01pm
hi all,
 
it's been a long, long, long day, but the caboose is done!  i'm currently in the environs of fort myers and about to turn in.  after a late start and a flat tire, i'm tired!  so, here's a view of the legacy erie caboose as it is now.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
bruce r: see ya in da morning!
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Feb 28th, 2008, 6:53am
George that caboose doesn't look anything like it's former self. Nicely done as always. If I know Bruce, he will be running cabooseless for fear of scratching this one.
Posted by: Anthony_SRR Posted on: Feb 28th, 2008, 4:46pm
George,
 
That Caboose looks awesome, I hope Bruce will run it rather then keeping it on display That is a true piece of art  and looks great! Can't wait to see it on the road
 
Anthony
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Feb 28th, 2008, 8:57pm

 
   Friends,
 
   George T. brought my old (new) caboose back to me today. To say that I was dumb struck would be putting it mildly. The pictures don't do it or George's workmanship justice.  
 
   All of the visitors here for the Un=Meet of "08" were equally impressed by the reincarnation of this old car. Since all of them are familiar with it.
 
   Thankyou again George,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 28th, 2008, 10:18pm
hi all,
 
it was a great day in south florida!   we ran trains, talked, ran trains, talked, ran trains, talked, ran trains, ate a great outdoor meal, and talked!  what more could a live steamer ask for?  
 
oh! btw, we also let bruce r see his caboose...after bruce-the-larger helped me present a garbage bag full of remnants and a roof to him as his new caboose 'with a problem' on the lift!!!!  it was a hoot!  well, almost...bruce r knows us too well!  i had one other surprize instore for him.  i added some addition details and purposely didn't show them in the last photo above.  the photo below shows the added elements.  see what you think!  
 
rolling out the erie legacy caboose and presenting its features was one of my proudest moments, because here's one of the few people who believed enough in me, to mentor me in railroad geometry and good solid live steam practices.   it's not often that i have a chance to do something like this for one who has meant so much to me.  thanks for the opportunity to say "thank you, bruce!"
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 28th, 2008, 10:29pm
hi all,
 
thank you for your wonderful compliments...it means a lot!  it is also a point to say that if i can do, so can you.  i've learned soooooo much from guys like the two bruces, pete, pockets, and all the others including our live steam pioneers.  just doing my part to pass it on.
 
btw, here's the photo that many of you have be waiting on....bruce r reunited with his rejuvenated erie caboose.  the truth is, it's still my caboose until he puts decals on it, then it's totally his!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: Anthony_SRR Posted on: Feb 29th, 2008, 4:46pm
It looks great outside!
 
Can we expect an Erie logo put on it Bruce?
 
Anthony
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 29th, 2008, 11:34pm
hi all,
 
anthony:  knowing bruce r, the only answer i can give is....shortly!
 
to all:  the erie legacy caboose ran on home rails today!  i was sooo busy prep work, firing, and learning the basics on an engine built by my departed friend ben s (now owned by art), that i didn't get a chance to take photos of the caboose doing what it is supposed to do...travel.  i did get a picture of it at our afternoon break.  
 
later on, we held the official lighting of the caboose lanterns.  what a beautiful sight and boy were they bright!  i think bruce is going to enjoy having it around...the caboose has already been threatened with 'keying' if he doesn't!  lol!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 3rd, 2008, 8:04pm
hi all,
 
i'm home from the 'un-meet '08' and basking in the memories created by a great bunch of folks.  long may they be able to inspire folks like me to build better, operate better, and teach better.  to pete, bruce r, marve, ron, bobby, and all the rest of the bcrr folks...thank you soooo much for your hard work and hospitality!  i had a ball!
 
with the erie legacy caboose back on home rails, what's next?  if a certain eje cab and wm cab don't make it back to my shop(you catching my drift andrew?  don't loose your place on the build table!!!), i'm going to finish another project that's in the shop (appearing on 'another network' as they used to say), then move back to the raritan river caboose (that one you WILL see) that's been on hold for sometime now.  when everything is out of the shop, you're going to see some BIG stuff get built!
 
i was going to take a couple of weeks off before i started, but that 'old feelin' has returned...as bruce-the-larger says, it's interesting when you become a "shop-rat!"  soooo, i'm just going to take a couple of days off.
yeah, right!?
 
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 20th, 2008, 3:14pm
hi all,
 
sorry that i haven't posted in a while.  i'm still waiting on the ej&e and wm cabooses to return.  the ej&e for renovating into another railroad and the wm for some untimely repairs.  the owner of the wm couldn't make it down from 'up north' this past year, so some of his buddies tried to help him out.  they moved the wm in an open trailer at god-knows-what speed.  why does it matter?  because they forgot that the cupola was only temporarily attached until a lighting system could be installed.  something they will soon NOT forget...something that is best remembered....if you break it, you buy it, you fix it, or pay for the fix to it!  since most of our equipment is handmade, it amazes me that some folks handle it sooo roughly and without care.  it ain't by fisher-price!
 
when those two projects are complete, i've still another 'old' project waiting in the wings to finish for you folks.  after that, i'll move on to some rather large projects.
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Mar 20th, 2008, 8:40pm
  Friends,
 
   I'm bringing the photo of George T's in reply 678 forward for many, many reasons. In that one pic, is encompassed so much endeavor, ability, dreams and accomplishments of so many really tallented live steamer/builders/refurbishers. Even I was surprised at whats in this one photo.
 
   On the left is the coaling tower being scratch built By Les and Marve, in the backround is the trestle, a testament to the dream and engineering abilities of Pete B., my Atlantic, which I probably would not have running if it were not for Ben Schneider. Behind the 4-4-2 is a John Cassady gon, John was a respected pioneer in Florida live steaming. The newly refurbished caboose, done by George T. Behind them is the string of five out of seven passenger cars built by Ben Schneider,  behind them is a brand new, scratch built riding car, just rolled out of the car barn that day, built by Peter B. And finally, the round house project, spear headed and in the process of being scratch built by Bobby T.
 
   Until I took the time to really look at this photo, I did'nt realize how much was compressed into it. Thankyou George for catching all these memories of Florida live steaming in one snap shot.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 16th, 2008, 6:52pm
hi all,
 
time slips by quickly...too quickly.   the afore-mentioned cabs haven't returned yet, so time marches on.  with all the sad events happening over the last months and years, it's given me time for pause.  the shop has been quiet for the last 2 months, unusally so, but the tools haven't fallen silent.  a slight mishap by one of my children(no injuries) triggered a complete re-model of our master bathroom.  needless to say, i'd rather be back out in the shop.
 
time away has also given me time to reminisce.  in doing so, i've plowed through many, many, many boxes of old photographs and found a few that i wanted to share with you.  bruce r, pockets, bobby, tom c, and all the rest of the usual cast of characters that regularly post here on railfan, frequently get asked 'how do i get into the hobby?'  the long and the short of it is, just do it!  you can only eat the elephant one bite at a time.  it also helps to have a mentor to guide you in 'cooking' your elephant.  well, beginning in 1994, i wanted to do it.  bruce r knows that i've been in the hobby as a youngster since the early 1970's, but couldn't or wouldn't afford to 'pay' the piper until the desire for equipment became sooo strong until i couldn't stand it anymore.   bruce r and ben s were regular sights on the lakeland track and  their friendship was part of the reason i went to largo.  bruce's goose proved to me that i could take 'stuff' cast off by others, a lot of hard work, and a little imagination to create something both unique, reliable, and wonderful...and uniquely me.  yes, i got laughed at by a lot of people, but i could hold my head up and ask 'where's yours?'
 
 
the tram engine motif was chosen because my kids were small and my wife hoarded her 'egg' money to purchase the wheels and bearings.  times were tight so i'll ever thank my dear wife for helping in my 'addiction'.  the rest of the loco was built from wood, scrap steel, cast-off lawnmowers, an old bedsheet, and theatrical lighting dimmer handles.
 
when people tell me how much they like my work...the details, the construction, and stuff, i think back to my first project.
 
bruce r, thanks for bringing the healing memories to the forefront.
 
for the rest of you folks, here's a look at my first project.  it wasn't the engine of my dreams, but it was the 'elephant' small enough for me to 'consume.'  it was the beginning of some life-long friendships and the start of my journey.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Mar 20th, 2008, 3:14pm, moose_the_caboose wrote:       (Click here for original message)
hi all,
 
sorry that i haven't posted in a while.  i'm still waiting on the ej&e and wm cabooses to return.  the ej&e for renovating into another railroad and the wm for some untimely repairs.  the owner of the wm couldn't make it down from 'up north' this past year, so some of his buddies tried to help him out.  they moved the wm in an open trailer at god-knows-what speed.  why does it matter?  because they forgot that the cupola was only temporarily attached until a lighting system could be installed.  something they will soon NOT forget...something that is best remembered....if you break it, you buy it, you fix it, or pay for the fix to it!  since most of our equipment is handmade, it amazes me that some folks handle it sooo roughly and without care.  it ain't by fisher-price!
 
when those two projects are complete, i've still another 'old' project waiting in the wings to finish for you folks.  after that, i'll move on to some rather large projects.
 
moose the caboose

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 16th, 2008, 7:09pm
hi all,
 
here's a look at another shot of the tram engine underway with my son at the controls.  the engine was slow and simple.  by the time the photos were taken, i'd re-engined to a 5 hp bs engine.  with me aboard, it pulled 5 t-riders with adults up the old grade at the lakeland track.  i'll add that the track was being repaired at the top of the grade and i was forced to stop at the midway point of the grade...as a joke.  the crowd at the top figured i couldn't pull it and have to back down the grade over a curving trestle.  sure fooled them when i sloooowly, ever so slooooowly got it to dig in and claw it's way up the grade.  the body of this engine is still in the shop.  i just can't bare to throw it out.
 
enjoy the look back in my journey,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: May 17th, 2008, 7:38pm

 
   Holy cow, Geoge, do I remember those long gone days. Great to see those old pics. Some good memories there. And, thanks for the compliment about the Goose.  
 
   I only wish that some of our newer posters here would go back into some of the past threads for info. Goodness knows, theres plenty there.
Includeing your very detailed info about building car bodys.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 22nd, 2008, 7:21pm
hi all,
 
the wm caboose has finally made it back to the shop.  i knew that it would require 'some' repair, but i was quite taken by surprise at how much damage had been done.  the cupola was wrecked to the point of needing to be thrown out and a completely new one built.  nor was i ready for all the 'incidental' damage from those who apparently (not that it surprizes me) don't know how to manage a 'model'.  much of the pretty brasswork has to be re-created, one of the step-units was 'removed', one of the ladder hoops was mangled, and sections of the roofwork will need to be repaired.  this caboose, seen on this thread, was completed and delivered more than 16 months ago to an absentee owner.  it was safe-kept by one group, but moved to another group's site back in december.  the damage to the cupola was done in-transit.  the incidental damage was done over a period of just 5 months by group 2.  just months to destroy almost a year's worth of work.
 
the damaged cupola i can abide because the people who transported it in an open trailer didn't know anything about how the model was constructed.  they've received their 'ten' lashes for their failure to observe the car structure or contact me.   believe me, they'll use care and better judgment in transporting real models from now on.  
 
the incidental damage done to the car while in supposed 'safe' storage at group 2's facility is outrageous.  they must belly-up to their responsibilities of handling equipment, anybody's equipment, before they will be trusted by any equipment buider in the future.  that is the lesson that anyone entering the hobby must learn as well.  remember, if you break it... you repair it, you buy it, you replace it or you pay for the repair.  how ever it happens, it will be devilishly expensive.  don't have the money for repairs?  the cheapest approach is use caution when handling or don't touch it at all, leave the equipment for the owner/builder to handle.  as soon as i get my camera problems solved, i'll be forwarding the pictures to the owner for his approval to do the repairs.  i'll also post them here to illustrate what careless and thoughtless handling can do.  the expense of this series of repairs will be a shocker for group 2.  a lesson learned the hard way is one not soon forgotten...let's hope they do.
 
if it hasn't dawned on you by now, i'm damned angry.  i put a lot of myself in everything i build.  those folks who have 'my' equipment know that i'll always do my best to keep their cars in good repair.  accidents do happen.  the fellow who has the wm caboose, also has several other cars from me.  he was greatly distressed a couple of years ago to find one of them missing, but appreciative of the fact that i found some damage on it and took it home for repair.  if you look back through this thread, you'll see that repair.  
 
bruce r:  please let pete and the gang know how much i really appreciate the opportunities to visit and allowed to be a part of the bcrr.  where builders gather and help one another.  where original workpieces are treated with utmost care.  where knowledge is freely shared.  where respect is earned by hard work, not by the mouth or cheque book.
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 22nd, 2008, 8:39pm
I fervently hope that some of the checkbook and platinum card members of group 2 read this. (They know who they are) George has used great restraint and diplomacy in his vent, above. I have heard, and agree with, the unabridged version, live, if you will.
 
For the new, and some of the not so new, to the hobby: Your assistance with loading, unloading and occasionally rerailing is frequently appreciated. Don't just grab, or push, on the most convenient part of the model. I have seen handrails, cut levers and a cab roof mangled by overzealous "helpers". If you are not intimately aquainted with that piece of equipment, ask the owner where to apply pressure. He and your wallet will appreciate it. Think about it, for a minute...Where would you grab that Berk that Jack Bodenman recently completed, or Pete Bialeckie's Mohawk?
 
The hobby is maturing and the detail level is improving every day. Builders, particularly narrow gaugers, are building more and more prototypically correct equipment. Tom Casper and George Taylor are two, from this board. Admitedly, Tom's stuff, so far, is more robust because of the scale, but it won't tolerate (proportionally) any more abuse than George's models or the prototype.
 
Just my $0.02,
Greg B.
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: May 22nd, 2008, 9:14pm
George this is very disappointing to hear. I know you must be angry as well as hurt to the point of taking this damage as a personal insult. I have come to know you well enough, as others here do also, to know that each of your cars are like your children. That each is a piece of you, an extension of your care and creativity. Just like any other artist or sculpter, you like to know your works are being cared for and admired for the enjoyment of others.  
 
Bobby
Posted by: rsrlon Posted on: May 22nd, 2008, 11:20pm
George,
 
If you are writing about the caboose I thinks you is, then I would certainly hope that some would take the respect they have (or should have) for both the owner and builder to heart when handling it.  I have always been taught to ask before lifting, check with the owner or operator for the safest way to go. If you're not sure, then lift by the trucks and, above all, be careful!  Don't save yourself a few seconds by costing someone else hours, days, even weeks of work.
 
Lon
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 6th, 2008, 4:25pm
hi all,
 
thanks for all  your support in the recent past.  it's hard to watch someone mis-treat a piece of equipment whether i or someone else built it.  just doesn't make sense to me.  going forward....
 
i wanted to show you a photo that i ran across recently that in using it as a comparison tool, you can see that doing a restoration/rebuild really can maintain the 'feel' of the original work piece.
 
the photo below is of bruce r's erie atlantic 7597 and the erie caboose...on a night run no less.  even to us that know the erie caboose well, there was a simplistic beauty  to it even then.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 6th, 2008, 4:53pm
moose the caboose
 
hi all,
 
here's the other photo.  this one taken at delivery last february.  yes, there's a lot more to see, but you have to be close enough to notice.  the simple lines of the original car are still there.  the erie caboose isn't a true scale model, but does represent a nice balance between utilitarian plywood box and highly detailed model charicature.  the erie caboose is a model to be proud of...it was even before i got a hold of it.  
 
my point in all this is to show that following the form follows function approach the 1-to-1 railroads used, will allow a higher level of detail to be applied to our 1 1/2 inch or there abouts models to re-create even the 'plain-jane' look from the class 1 roads to the logging roads.   it's just more fun in the larger scales!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 23rd, 2008, 6:00pm
hi all,
 
unfortunately, i'm still renovating the bathroom for swmbo.  however, there's been a change in my build schedule.  the 2 1/2 inch scale cars will wait 'til early next year to start.  that gives me more time to advance my blueprints.  in their place, a new 1.6 inch scale caboose will rise.  this new railcar will be in conjunction with the repair of the wm.  i'm hoping to debut this new car on the bcrr in the not too distant future.  boy, will i need a new trailer to haul as the cabooses i want to take down there.  i'd like nothing else than to see an entire train of hacks!  
 
i wonder who could possibly want something like this one?!
 
stay tuned!
 
moose  
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jun 23rd, 2008, 7:11pm
George ,   That will be perfect.    Did they have any side doors with truss rods, or were they an earlier era?.    Ray III
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 23rd, 2008, 7:33pm
hi all,
 
ray: judging by the research i've been doing, it's not hard to imagine that they started here (below) and as needs arose, went to the one pictured above.  the 9094 was rebuilt on a steel frame as was mandated for road-service interchange cars to end the accordian accidents evident with wood framed cars.  i'll keep looking for an example before i start.
 
btw, a tip'o'the hat to the guys on the ic boards at yahoo for their enthusiasm, data, and photographs.  they are going to be watching me like a hawk!  i hope they enjoy the journey.
 
 
moose
 
on Jun 23rd, 2008, 7:11pm, SteamHeaton wrote:       (Click here for original message)
George ,   That will be perfect.    Did they have any side doors with truss rods, or were they an earlier era?.    Ray III

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jun 23rd, 2008, 10:30pm
Moosey,
Take another look at your last photo. On the left end, that overpass is late 40s to early 50s civil engineering and the car is post war. Cabees weren't intended for interchange, so they got a pass on a lot of FRA regs.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: Jun 24th, 2008, 6:39pm
Moose,
I'll be very interested in this project too, since I have an IC mikado I'm working on.  Here's another photo I found which may be of some use to you:
 
http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/LHP&CISOPTR=1356&CISOBOX=1&REC=12
 
Dan
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: Jun 26th, 2008, 8:10am
Moose,
On these IC cabooses with the high side door, was the purpose of the door to hand up train orders to the conductor (so he wouldn't have to go out on the end platform of a moving train)?  Obviously it wasn't for loading supplies, nor for entering or exiting the caboose.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 26th, 2008, 9:58pm
hi all,
 
dan:  many thanks for the photo find and link!  trolling the libraries is one of my favorite activities.  as to your question, i don't have a definitive answer...yet, but the knowledge i've gained tells me that while the ic was and continues to be a class 1 operation, their roots were in branchline operations.  from steaminheaton and others, i've learned that they went anywhere and carried anything that turned a buck (mail, prisoners, passengers, the occaisional horse, package goods...).  the side doors make sense when seen from a station platform (think mail and express package service).  many smaller railroads did this as an after thought, especially lines with little or no scheduled passenger service.  the ic and it's predecessor lines made it part of their service to the communities they served.  i'm no expert, nor do i play one on tv, but pondering your question and digging into history is a heck of a lot of fun!
 
moose
 
on Jun 26th, 2008, 8:10am, Dan Watson wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moose,
On these IC cabooses with the high side door, was the purpose of the door to hand up train orders to the conductor (so he wouldn't have to go out on the end platform of a moving train)?  Obviously it wasn't for loading supplies, nor for entering or exiting the caboose.

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 23rd, 2008, 8:09pm
hi all,
 
yes, it's been a while since i last posted here...there's this pesky home re-model project under way.  that however doesn't mean things aren't being done!  you see, there's this ic caboose that wants to be scaled out and drawn on top of another pet project of mine...building archbar trucks!  no, i don't have a set done yet, research and development take time.  
 
early on, i made a promise to myself that i would show my work, even work-in-progress for all to see.  there are plenty of people who only show their best work.  you'll never see how they got there.  whether my work succeeds or fails, i hope you can follow my journey and learn as i learn.  i started thinking about archbar trucks a couple of years ago.  i'm partial to railroading as it was from the 1860's to the 1890's, as such, there's not a lot of equipment around to choose from.  no matter, i'll build what i want anyway, but what's missing is a decent archbar truck.  with pockets' conjammerin' supporting me, i've set out to give it a try.  initially, i thought it would be as simple as bending up some barstock and puttin' 'er together...wrong!  well, the barstock is the almost easy part...i started looking around for journal boxes that were appropriate for the time period.  in short, i couldn't find any i liked.  enter in a new friend in the new port richey area...a fellow whose hobby is home foundry work!  between pockets and the new fellow, i'm learning to put some old foam carving skills to work.  over the next year, i'll be experimenting with several casting techniques to see if i can produce a journal box casting that i'm happy with.
 
the journey begins now!
 
in the photo below, you can see the progression (beginning from the left) from the wooden pattern that i did just to see if i could do on a jigsaw(posted here many moons ago) to the first try out of florist foam to the one that i was working on today.  btw, the foam IS fragile, but white glue heals it nicely!  the last pattern isn't done yet, there's still a long way to go.  it still needs a pour-gate and vent for escaping air.  the finished patterns will be coated with a thin gypsum slip, and then a thicker slip.  when the pattern is stable, it will be put into a casting box and casting sand compacted around it.  this particular method is the lost foam method.  when the casting metals hit the foam, the foam burns away and the metals take its place.  the problem with this method?  each pattern has to be hand-made, meaning that no two will be exactly alike...unless i can find a way to automate it.  it's more art than science.
 
enjoy the fun!
 
ray, the ic starts building tomorrow!
 
moose
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Aug 23rd, 2008, 10:35pm
George, neat stuff,  looking forward to updates on this.   It looks like alot of time  was spent on those patterns.     Ray III
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Aug 23rd, 2008, 11:07pm

 
   Very nice George, very nice indeed.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 27th, 2008, 3:53pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  thanks for the compliment!  i'm trying hard to be a credit to the hobby by making things myself, thereby learning new skills along the way.  even with this new foray into home foundry work, i feel like i'm following in ben's footsteps.  even if my first attempts fail and i expect them to, i will have gained so much more knowledge than if i were to have taken out my chequebook and paid someone else.  compared to some to the super-fine work seen else-where, my pattern-work is clumsy and crude, but it's my work...it's my education.  in other circles, i'll be laughed at, but my work will get better as my skills improve...those who laugh will run out of cheques!  
 
as you know so well, the hobby is about the journey; the sharing of moments great/small; taking pride in seeing others enjoy the results of what you do; seeing your equipment perform as it should; and not the destination of having the prettiest non-functioning pieces of junk.  to have found friends like you, pockets, big bruce, pete b, and the rest (forgive me, but there's a lot) are the best reasons to start.  it's the glue of true friendships.  thanks for being here!
 
to all:  variety is the spice of life, so is the need for there to be more than one type of journal box.  back at the turn of the century, if you looked on most branckline equipment, the sharp eye would catch the some of the journal boxes were different even in the same truck.  when i was visiting with pockets away up in michigan, our conjammerin' alway gets around to prototypical practice.  i've had the pleasure of his library on a number of occasions.  if you don't have access to resource materials, you're lost!  what a wonderful feeling to be able to look up something of interest.  so, knowing that i wanted something different, when i got home, i started looking.  instead of the top-clip method, i found an older version that used bolts or large screw on a diagonal.  pawing through the us patent office, there are enough differences between them that it would make an interesting model...one that most folks would miss.  the photo below is not only my latest try, but also variation on a theme.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose  
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Aug 27th, 2008, 4:27pm
Moosey,
Thanks for the inclusion in the above group. I consider that a compliment of the highest order.
 
I know the process and the destination, and in that context, your paterns are looking real good. The learning curve on those things is darned near vertical and you seem to be handling it well.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2008, 7:07pm
hi all,
 
many thanks for all of the kind words about the journal box patterns.  sometimes it's embarrasing to show your work, warts and all, but that's how i can prove almost anyone can do what i do.  i had an email question recently about how i went about creating the patterns, just do it!  well, it's not quite that easy, but as my grandfather taught me about working with wood, just cut away the parts that aren't needed.  again, more easily said than done.  i started with napkin sketches with rough measurements then whittled away on foam.  currently, i'm using florist foam...easy to carve...easy to break, er, and easy to repair!
 
here's the latest pattern...just for pockets!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2008, 7:43pm
hi all,
 
i wanted to take a moment and show you the start of the process as well as the intermediate state.  the last pattern is sitting atop a block of foam from which the next sample will be made.  as i said above, just whittle away what you don't need...remembering for the casting process that your pattern should be at least 3% larger than the final casting.  pretty soon, we'll learn if i followed this sage advice given by pockets and others.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2008, 7:49pm
hi all,
 
ray:  it's started!  you're seeing first fit-up.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2008, 9:12pm
Moosey,
I like the daylights outa that last one. I'll call you, tomorrow, with one critical dimension! Anxiously awaiting nine engineering samples.....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Sep 4th, 2008, 2:02pm
George ,  thankyou so much for taking  this project on.    This will be a very special addition to my train, because it is being  hand crafted by you.   I am looking forward to the progress reports. Ray III
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 4th, 2008, 9:00pm
Smirk, heh heh heh..... I love surprises.....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 7th, 2008, 8:00pm
hi all,
 
i've had a couple of projects running at once.  over the last several days, a lot has been done.  as those who follow this thread know, the wm caboose came back to the shop because damage done by some folks that should have known better.  the repairs have waited on the start of the ic caboose.  creating the caboose siding is a laborious process...no hard, but tedious.  most of the siding is done.  the wm caboose needs to be finished first due to space constraints.  
 
now, to those persons who think that moving rail equipment doesn't require ginger care...ya better pay attention!  the photo below shows the new cupola mocked up for a fine fit to the roof.  when that has been done, the window openings will be cut and the cupola assembled.  this car was damaged before the person i created it for ever saw it completed.  i'll now have to take time to make it look new...again.  as those who build come to know, the equipment becomes like a child.  it hurts to see your children sustain injury, especially at someone else's hands.  dismantling the remaining parts of the old cupola wasn't easy for me.  the old parts are in the foreground.
 
the owner of the wm caboose trusts me to make good the damage done by others.  when the cupola is complete, i can move on to re-doing the brasswork that was damaged.   damn, damn, damn, damn...what a waste of time and effort, all because someone said, "i didn't know," and didn't 'bother' to find out.  in this hobby, if you break it, you repair, you buy it, you replace it, but you don't walk away and say nothing.  the wm caboose isn't a kit, it's one-of-a-kind.  just once, i'd like to see the people that damaged it, try to repair it.  on second thought, i wouldn't wish that on anyone's child...er, equipment.
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 7th, 2008, 8:19pm
hi all,
 
on to more pleasant news!  alex is back on his train!  we met this morning for breakfast (bruce, you know the place!) and then proceeded to the railroad in largo.  recently, i was able to rebuild the carb on alex's engine (a photo was posted on the 'gasoline alley' thread.  with it all bolted back together, the tank was filled, the starter cord pulled, and the engine roared to life!  a little tweak here and there...the engine ran as smoothly as it is posible for a B&S engine to run.  for the first time in many months, alex ran the railroad with his train...you couldn't wipe the smile off his face with a mop.  
 
speaking of smiles on faces, for those of you who know the wabash loco in the background, the owner's health has improved well enough for him to take his engine around the railroad last saturday!  hopefully, we'll see him with his complete train in the not too distant future!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 7th, 2008, 8:25pm
hi all,
 
alex on the road again!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 7th, 2008, 9:14pm
Thanks, George. It's good to see Alex, again.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: rsrlon Posted on: Sep 9th, 2008, 12:57am
George, I have to say that I have always been amazed by the cabeese (caboosi? cabbi?) that you've built. I would be hard pressed to come anywhere near the quality and detail that you've achieved. I'm looking forward to reading more about your castings.
 
On another note, it's been a while since I've made it down to Largo. It's good to see Alex on the rails again and I'm also glad to hear that both the Wabash and (more importantly) it's owner are doing better.
 
Lon
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 9th, 2008, 6:40pm
hi all,
 
the work on the ic caboose continues...will be able to post some photos shortly.  for now, i want to give a taste of some source materials sent to me by steaminheaton!  forgive me for making the posting, but ray's friend did some fantastic woodworking.  it will also show what i'm up against!  over the last few months, i've been pouring over all my source materials, including photos forwarded to me by ray.  i won't name the gentleman in this post, i'll reserve that pleasure for ray himself.  the work is fantastic and the story of the man is fasinating.
 
enjoy as i'd had the pleasure!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 13th, 2008, 10:22pm
hi all,
 
lon:  many thanks for the compliment...but your signiture line says it all!  just start!  you know some of my past, so i had some experience in woodworking and mechanical before i started building.  getting over the initial resistance or 'i could never do that' is the key.  i'll go you one better, if you'll find some time to come visit, there's a project (the raritan river cab) hanging around that would interest you.  should you have room to store it, it will teach you quite a bit about how build your own equipment...and not to make the same mistakes.  in time, i will eventually finish it, but for now, it's in the way!  it's a great 'learner' piece.  pockets knows of which i speak.
 
to all:  the ic caboose has gotten a lot more attention in the last three days.  i'm actually gluing parts together...no turning back now.  this one marks a change for me.  i'm inletting the marque boards across each side of the car for a better scale appearance.  it will also teach me what i'll need to do to change the marque-ledger boards from wood to steel (not this project).  these helpful 'handles'...lol...will 'aid' in future car-by-the-hand-of-god movements!
 
if there's a weakness in my railcars, it's where the marque-ledger boards extend as platform roof supports.  future-wise, creating them from steel should help with this problem.  photos tomorrow!
 
moose the caboose
 
 
on Sep 9th, 2008, 12:57am, rsrlon wrote:       (Click here for original message)
George, I have to say that I have always been amazed by the cabeese (caboosi? cabbi?) that you've built. I would be hard pressed to come anywhere near the quality and detail that you've achieved. I'm looking forward to reading more about your castings.
 
On another note, it's been a while since I've made it down to Largo. It's good to see Alex on the rails again and I'm also glad to hear that both the Wabash and (more importantly) it's owner are doing better.
 
Lon

Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 13th, 2008, 10:40pm

 
   George,
 
   As useual, your workmanship speaks for itself. That is going to be one nice caboose. I know a certain person will be delighted with it.
 
   Beautiful work!
 
   Bruce
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Sep 14th, 2008, 1:27pm
George,   what a treat , to get to see the IC caboose,  come together from the ground up.     These pics help us understand , how much time goes into one of your cabs.   Your work is amzing, as is evident, by your attention to detail.   Ray III
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 14th, 2008, 7:14pm
hi all,
 
to the group:  forgive the confusion that i've allowed to creep into the thread.  the photo just above was for lon's benefit...i think i scared ray half to death by letting him think it was his!  photo is of the raritan river caboose, not the ic.  
 
okay pockets, snickering time is over...time to reveal the REAL ic caboose!  what some may not realize is that pockets and i talk almost everyday.  initially, i was going to produce a peaked roof cab...like some many that ran all over the ic railroad, but after looking at all my research materials for wood cars and with deference to ray's late friend Bob Flesch, i decided to stay truer to the actual prototype.  ray's cab won't be an exact copy of bob's, but true enough that i think he would approve.  the reference car is ic 9094, from a series of cars built between 1916 and 1929.  the last of these cars were sold or scrapped between 1967 and 1971.  the photo below gives an approximate feel for how the finished caboose will look.  the cupola is from the wm caboose...not the ic.  the ic cupola will have about half the rake or vertical angle (3.5 degrees from true vertical) than the wm caboose has (7 degrees from true vertical).  i'll be working on the ic cupola next weekend.
 
ray, you can breathe now!  btw, if you have a particular set of caboose marker lights you want to use, now's the time to forward two sets down here.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 14th, 2008, 7:27pm
hi all,
 
here's another view of the ic caboose.  several pieces of the internal structure are going in.  over the years, i've learned that process is very important...do what you can before the car goes on wheels.  the carbody is being built so that it can be removed from the foundation/chassis if needs be.  that means that anything internal to the car must come away with the body and not stay with the floor.  planning is everything, it's hard to make an after-thought look like it's supposed to be there!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 14th, 2008, 7:33pm
hi all,
 
last pic for today...the ic caboose seen from a slightly different angle.
 
enjoy,  
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 14th, 2008, 7:55pm

 
   DAUM, thats nice work!!!!  
 
   George, let us all that are interested here, is it easier to build new such as this cab or re-build like you did with my cab. I've often wondered that after you brought my Erie cab back.
 
   Thanks ahead of time,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 14th, 2008, 9:40pm
Bruce,
In case George's modesty will prevent candor, I'll speak up. As a fellow old hot rodder, you will remember how we always cherished those cherry pieces of tin. That's because even the most involved new construction is ALWAYS easier than proper restoration. In scratchbuilding, you have the option of scrapping a less than acceptible piece and starting over. Not so, with a restoration. What you're lookin at is what you got.
 
George is 200+ pounds of raw talent. He has the technicians mindset and the artists eye. He has a couple of tools that he wants and has jumped into a nearly vertical learning curve on a couple of additional skills. When he gets them, hang onto your socks. There won't be anyone, in large scale railroading, surpass him for custom built cabeese.
 
Not only is he a superb teacher, as anyone can witness here, he is what anyone who wants to excell has to be; an excellent student. Edumakashun!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 14th, 2008, 9:54pm
A Tip for the PRO
 
George,
Go to tthe back of your closet (or your wife's) and find some old, worn, soft , heavy leather. Something like the loose end of an old belt, or a purse (remember those tooled leather purses that women had several years ago?) The softer the better. Maybe SWMBO could chew it for you, in the Native American fashion. Cut it into one inch squares and put it under the plastic pads on your bar clamps. The wood will thank you.
 
BTW: I wouldn't normally mention this in public, but your cupola is drooping.....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: rsrlon Posted on: Sep 15th, 2008, 12:17am
Greg, to borrow a line from Johnny Carson- He could wear a long coat, and nobody would notice!
 
George, I've been contemplating a car project for a while now. Most likely a simple boxcar or reefer, but I have even been toying with the idea of that SAL crew car you posted pictures of a while back. I visited that museum about 8 years ago and I also have some pictures, but they are pre-digital and boxed away right now.
 
I know you told me before, but my memory is foggy. Did you say you used furniture grade plywood for the cars? I can picture myself making lots of expensive kindling trying to groove that stuff. I've considered darker lines of the body color to give the illusion of planking, but I don't know how well that would work.
 
If I go with a reefer, I've found a brand or graphic to use that will have a connection to my hometown. I don't think there are any actual prototypes, but my artistically talented brother may be able to alter the crate label below into a reefer logo.
 
Of course, I also like the idea of a fictional company, "Mom's Old Fashioned Gravy." I've always wanted to ride the gravy train!
 
Lon
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 15th, 2008, 10:40pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  as you've guessed and has been aptly put by pockets, doing a restoration/rebuild is by far the hardest work i've done to date.   whether you're working on a museum piece or a 'daily-driver' as your mcc erie cab is, the hardest part is to decide what to touch and what to leave.  to a conscientious technician the question becomes how do i keep it true to the original builder; how do i repair damages without damaging the historic or sentimental value; how do i add value without destroying the provenance values; and how do i make changes that add value for you but another technician can erase in the future if desired?  yes, building another body would have taken far less time and effort, but it wouldn't have been the same car.  i've been wanting to tackle your erie cab for a number of years, i'm glad i did it.  
 
to all:  why the restoration/rebuild?  because my buddy bruce would never ask for himself.  bruce gave and gave and gave of himself to the hobby for years and never asked anything for himself.  i couldn't begin to count the miles and tonnage he's hauled the public.  i can't even begin to count the youngsters who got their first glimpse of and ride behind his erie-atlantic.  too often in this hobby, folks without the heart of a true livesteamer gather and pass judgment on the work of others.  too often, folks run engine-light, but my friend bruce runs full train as much as possible.  while i don't particularly care what the chequebook-railroaders think, i want bruce to hear the 'wow' factor from that next train-load of youngsters as he pulls into the station where ever it maybe.  the mcc erie caboose retains all of it's charm and memories from years past, but is also creating new ones for bruce and his passengers.  so i ask again, why the restoration/rebuild?  because it is a piece of our history.  because it has added value to everyone who's owned it.  because of the memories within it and shared around it.  because someone put alot of themselves into the building of it.  now, whether you see bruce's cab in person or photo, you know that it is an early mcc cab and you can see the original bulder's handiwork.  that's how i intended it be seen, yet i added so much more that it is different from any other mcc cab.  with the exception of the window openings, a careful technician can restore it to a stock mcc cab.  that's the one change that can't be undone...easily.  if my work is erased, the original builder's work still shines through, just as i intended and agonized over.  that's why a restoration is soooo hard!
 
lon:  yes, i use furniture grade plywood for the foundation and like to use it for the siding because of how stable it is.  home improvement hell store's normal cd...er, seedy...er, gp...general purpose, that's it, is crappy! you can also use aircraft grade or marine grade...still expensive though!  depending on time period and length of the reefer, you can get a 30' car out of a single sheet of plywood.  what i normally do is use 5/8" plywood for foundations and 1/2" plywood for ends and sidings.  i cut the 5/8" to a standard width, thereby getting two to three car foundations per sheet.  i budget a single sheet of 1/2" plywood per car(no standard widths or heights). by checking out reference sources like the master carbulder's encyclopedias, for a pre-19teens car roof you can use the same roofing technique that i use for the cabs.  here's my offer, draw up a set of napkin-plans, grab your source photos, and come visit.  der groovin' machine sits idle 99% of the time...i'll show you how to use it.  with about 2 hours work, you'll have enough material for your car.  as pockets says, edumakasun is everything.
 
pockets:  you make me blush...i'll send another $20 as soon as i can!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 16th, 2008, 12:01am
hi all,
 
lon:  sorry!  i couldn't resist!
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 16th, 2008, 7:18am

 
   George,
 
   Thank you so much for the come back on my question. And believe me, I could;nt be happier with the old Erie cab. Your workmanship really shows on it. I appreciate all of your thoughtfull work on it.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: Oilcan Posted on: Sep 16th, 2008, 9:30am
Moose and Bruce:
 
First to Moose... thank you for your continued input regarding your techniques and processes involved in the construction of your cabooses. Your posts have been the most informational that I have found anywhere on the subject. They're inspirational such that I feel I could actually try to make a freight car using your outlines.
 
And Bruce... according to Moose's comments about your desire to haul passengers, thank you! So many times at track meets, I've seen lines of potential riders passed up by empty trains as the engineer enjoys the freedom of not dealing with riders. At one particular track meet, I watched a young mom and dad with their youngster in hand as they waited for over an hour to board a train... any train. There must have been several dozen trains pass without regard to the family. My humble speeder and single riding car can take on two passengers... that's all I can haul. I asked if I could carry them one at a time and they were thrilled. The dad said it was important to them that their son get a chance to ride so mom and son climbed aboard. When we returned, dad was still there waiting for a ride. Unfortunately they had to leave before I could give dad his ride. I've often though of that couple and how they had patiently waited for their turn to ride and not getting one and if we, the hobby, had lost a potential member.
 
So, thanks guys, you're great ambassadors!
 
Neil
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 18th, 2008, 10:05pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  you are most welcome!  restoring the 'weary erie' to 'spring chicken' was one of the highlights of my hobby.  i'm still thinking about the stilwells and the other erie....
 
neil:  thank you for the compliments...and DO get started, that's why i show my work.  there are too many who show you their finished work, but not how they got there.  believe me, if i kept my heart on my sleeve, posting here would be the last thing i'd do!  you wouldn't believe how picky people can be when it's not their equipment.  we all make mistakes, mine are out for you to see...aren't they pockets!? lol!  neil, as for hauling the public, given the proper circumstances, it's an absolute pleasure to see the faces learning to 'taste' what railroading was like so many years ago!  i could only hope that when my time here is finished, that i hauled at least half the passengers that bruce has.  it's also a treat to see my equipment work hard at what it was supposed to do...railroading.  patrick sky wrote a song, 'many a mile' that has become my anthem for this part of my life.  i'm starting to enjoy it...thanks to all my live steam friends!
 
to all:  i'm refining my building process again to make things a little more unabtrusive, but still keep the strength.  i've used a 'wedge' roof installation technique that has worked well in the past, but required larger body supports (over 5/8" in thickness to 3/4" thickness).  the ic caboose roof wedge supports will be just 1/2" thick.  they can already be seen in some of the prior photos.  the body is being built to slip over the foundation so that it can be removed for repair/renovation/customizing/new body.   the foundation board is just that, it holds the weight of the body by the 'a' and 'b' ends and small blocks along the left and right sides.  to hide securing hardware, wood screws are installed from the bottom of the foundation board into the side blocks.  in anticipation of a new challenge for me, everything is getting a little thinner (1/2").  where am i going with this?  the ability to do better interiors.  smaller vertical supports means more supports...but that's an update for later.  tonight, the roof structure is almost ready to be fitted up.  still in the rough, but gettin' there!  here's where i'm at.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 18th, 2008, 10:10pm
hi all,  
 
here's another view of the ic caboose...ray, ya better have ya'r mike down here in february!
 
moose
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Sep 18th, 2008, 11:24pm
LoL,     George I must admit you had me wondering, after your raritan river  pic.   I was thinking about all of the ic hacks you showed me including all the branch line and transfer  cabs.   I figured you were just putting your personal spin on it.   It would not matter to me what you create,  I was hoping for a side door , but would be thrilled  , just to have one of your pieces of art.    You are right I better have the  mike at the meet.   It sounds as though it is going to be quite a gathering.  I have been welding at a ferverish pace.  I should have all of the stay bolts except for the backhead welded  by tomorrow.   Thanks for the update it looks great. Ray III
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 20th, 2008, 7:19pm
hi all,
 
ray: what a delight to talk to you on the twisted pair last night!  our conversation was quite informative, i learned so much more than the photos show.  to those trying to follow our current conversation, some of the photos ray sent of a cab built by his late friend bob, showed a detail that didn't show up well...the lower half of the 'a' end left front window is whited out.  unless you know the interior of the cab, it wouldn't be obvious.  when we were discussing bob's cab, ray mentioned that this particular window is usually painted red on the lower half (it's the toilet).  the funny thing is that in just about all of the research material, the 'necessaries' cabinet is in the 'b' end.  so i went hunting again...flickr...and bob was right!  i found some interior shots of an ic cab...everything is just as bob would have remembered it.
 
to all:  with each new project i do, the research grows more and more important...and fun!  educatiing yourself is key to producing a good job.
 
here's the work done today...just as ray and i talked...this is a new technique for me.  usually, i mount the cupola atop the roof structure.  for the ic caboose, it becomes part of the roof assembly and acts to transmit any 'extraneous' person's weight down to the foundation and steel underframe.  there's still alot of work left on the roof members before it is assembled, but you can see how it is coming together.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 20th, 2008, 7:26pm
hi all,
 
in this next photo, you can see from the 'b' end that the roof supports run through the cupola end.  the cupola end sits atop an interior wall...also visible.  this lends support to the whole structure.  it still means that when the roof is removed, you have access to any part of the car.  
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 20th, 2008, 7:33pm
hi all,
 
here's the overall look of the ic caboose tonight!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 21st, 2008, 8:13pm
hi all,
 
in an earlier post of the late Bob Flesch's ic cab didn't come out quite as i wanted it to.  his work is an inspiration!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 21st, 2008, 9:41pm
hi al,
 
it's been a busy day 'out' side of the shop.  the cupola has been mocked-up and most of the internal bracing has been installed.  the two internal walls have been fitted and are ready for some additional work.  when this car is complete, the roof will come away in a single section revealing the interior.  btw, ray, your going to need a motorcycle battery(s) and small built in charger.  the spaces under the cupola will hide twin batteries.  soon i'll have to work out where the conduit runs and where to place the controls.
 
if ray wasn't excited before, the following picture should send him in orbit!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 21st, 2008, 9:51pm
hi all,
 
here's another view from the 'a' end.  you can just about see the two internal walls.  when the cupola is completed, i can then assemble and finish fit the roof into a single unit.  for now, i'll continue working on mainbody parts.  not too far down the road, i'll have to build the underframe.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 21st, 2008, 9:55pm
hi all,
 
last pic of the night!  here's the battery box!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 21st, 2008, 10:05pm
If Ray don't want it, I'll send the paint masks for the Clam Lake! I'll need a derelict for a yard office. Just set her on some cribbing and plant rhubarb around her.
 
If the guv-mint ever outlaws blue tape, yer outta business!!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Sep 21st, 2008, 11:54pm
Keep looking Greg , I want it! George, your work is just amazing.   That will really be something going down the track.  thanks for the pics. Ray III
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 27th, 2008, 9:50pm
hi all,
 
ray:  we've got a problem...there was a major catastrophy in the shop today!  i'm going to have to start over.  don't worry, i'll catch up.  i've really done it this time...i can't let you have a car that i wouldn't own myself.  i promise yours will be done by the 'un-meet'.  btw, could you send 2 sets of trucks and couplers?!
 
to all:  having fun with ray has become a 'tradition'!  he's a heck of a nice guy and takes the 'ribbing' better than anyone i know...well, most anyone i know.
 
ray:  the photo below is solely for you, buddy!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 27th, 2008, 10:02pm
hi all,
 
okay, here's the view ray's really been waiting on!
 
btw, ray, in the previous photo off to the right is a new battery that will go in the cupola area.  if you have a small 2 amp charger, you can forward that if you want.  otherwise, i'll locate one and install it for you.  the idea is to be able to drop the cab at a power station and recharge for more night running.  depending on space, a 2nd battery can be added with an a-b master switch.
 
to all:  ray does an awful lot of night running.  in the not too distant future, i'll show how the electrical system goes together.  if you're going to build a car like this one, might as well plan ahead.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Sep 28th, 2008, 7:44am

   George,
 
   I'm out of words,(yes, thats right, I did say that) on how to describe your beautiful workmanship. This project looks AWESOME !!!
 
   And thankyou for takeing the time to describe your process along with the photos.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: tomc Posted on: Sep 28th, 2008, 10:35am
Moose,
 
Nice lookin start.  Lookin fwd to wiring info.  Keep that camera in hand.
 
Tom C.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Sep 29th, 2008, 6:12am
George,  that is amazing!     looks fantastic
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 29th, 2008, 6:45pm
hi all,
 
ray:  here's a look at ic 9094.  the ic caboose that is the inspiration for the one taking shape in the shop!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 29th, 2008, 7:07pm
hi all,
 
here's the ic caboose as it looks tonight.  the 'a' roof still needs some smoothing work.  normally, i'd leave the rough cut 'lumber' for a more rustic look, but for the time period it will represent, a newer look is called for.  so a roof that has seen better maintenance it will be.  if you look close, you'll see the wood filler...something i don't normally do.  i won't erase the lumber outlines, but create a less desparate look.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 29th, 2008, 7:08pm
.....and check out those trucks, Ray. Does anyone make 'em?
 
I wanna see how ol' Moosey handles those double hung windows....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 29th, 2008, 7:19pm
Quiz Time
 
Who knows the purpose of the grab irons, on either side of the doors, about window height?
 
Proffessional trainmen need not reply....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 29th, 2008, 7:19pm
hi all,
 
here's an update on the wm cupola...a little more work and it will be ready to FIRMLY attach to the roof of the car.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: Sep 29th, 2008, 8:06pm
Moose,
I'd love to get a copy of any sketches or drawings you have prepared for building this caboose.  It's exactly what I would like to build also.  (Hopefully there are no "trademark infringement" issues.
 
Dan
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Sep 29th, 2008, 10:02pm
on Sep 29th, 2008, 7:19pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Quiz Time
 
Who knows the purpose of the grab irons, on either side of the doors, about window height?
 
Proffessional trainmen need not reply....
 
Greg B.

 
Would those be for the conductor to hold onto as he leans out to grab the marker lamps.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 30th, 2008, 9:39pm
hi all,
 
i've changed schedules at work, so i'm able to work in the shop a couple more hours a day.  slow and steady progress wins the day.  the photo below shows where the ic caboose was this afternoon.  i cut all the roof lumber and it is now installed on the 'b' end roof.  i'll spend some time smoothing just as i've done on the 'a' end before moving on to applying the 'tar paper'.  if you look closely, i start laying the lumber from each side and work towards the middle.  the center strip is custom cut to account for irregularities in the lumber.  the lumber is glued/tacked to the interior frame and edge-glued to each other.  believe me, it works!  the whole assembly becomes one solid unit.  
 
for those who are curious, the clamps holding the ends are for creating a smooth transition to some exterior roof supports.  they come later!
 
enjoy,  
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 30th, 2008, 10:07pm
hi all,
 
while i had me panel aid set up on the table saw, i went ahead and cut all the lumber for the cupola roof as well.  the photo below shows the initial layout for that operation.  for now, the lumber will be bundled up and set aside.  the cupola interior needs some finishing work before beening enclosed.  preliminary interior fixtures are the next operation.  i'm holding off of the steel frame until i have the trucks and couplers in-hand.  getting the frame geometry right is best done without having to worry about the gingerbread.  
 
btw, pockets was asking how i was going to do the double-hung windows.  well, as i ponder his question, i think it would be great if he would post a picture of object of his request.    pockets has a wonderful way of explaining things so...pockets, the youngsters are all yours!
 
dan:  pockets and i both had to lol!  i don't create drawings per se...i'll send you copies of my cocktail napkins if you like?!  seriously, i do use a spread sheet to help with calculations and to hold as-built data.  i'll gladly forward to you when the project is complete.  many thanks for your contributions to my ongoing efforts!
 
moose
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Sep 30th, 2008, 10:45pm
Bobby,
For that correct answer you get an extra 20 min. Pevo Patio break!
 
George,
I'll do anything I can to help. First, you have to state your request in one of the many varieties of English. I'll put a drawing together, get it into the 'puter and send it to you. You can post it, burn it or send it to Dan.... with the rest of your napkins. How thick are those dang walls? I might as well design this thing, for you. I'll break it down so simple the even I can understand it!
 
A lifetime ago, when I had my prototyping shop, I used to put a notation on the drawings that went out to the shop floor. It read B2P4 1. The translation is; Build To Print For Once!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: George_Harris Posted on: Oct 1st, 2008, 12:18pm
on Sep 30th, 2008, 10:45pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
A lifetime ago, when I had my prototyping shop, I used to put a notation on the drawings that went out to the shop floor. It read B2P4 1. The translation is; Build To Print For Once!
 
Greg B.

I love it, I love it, I love it.  Can I use it?  
 
Want to see a liar?  Look at the person that slaps the "AS BUILT" stamp on a design drawing without making a lot of changes on it.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Oct 1st, 2008, 2:22pm

 
   Dan,
   
   I owe you and George an appology. When you visited recently down to the BCRR, there was so much water around that I did'nt drag out my beautifully rebuild and improved MCC  Erie caboose. Done by George T, of course.
 
   George, if you care to, you might want to bring forward some of the pics of the rebuild to show the differences between a new construction and what needs to be done to save an older car like mine.
 
   Just a thought,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 1st, 2008, 2:43pm
George H,
Feel free to use it.....I found it on a switch gear layout, in a nuclear power plant!! ;
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 1st, 2008, 8:50pm
hi all,
 
dan:  since you missed the rebuild/restoration series, here's a look at where i started on the 'weary erie'.  i started out just to freshen, to update, and to replace damaged details.   the more i got into to it, the more problems i found.  the photo below is the beginning of the tear-down.
 
to all:  bruce r and i go back a number of years.  in all that time, he's not asked for anything for himself, so when given the opportunity, the erie caboose came home with me.  for every new project i do, i set challenges for myself...to learn, to achieve, and to demonstrate.  i refused to return the erie as a car i wouldn't be happy to call mine.  that's what i wanted bruce r to feel...friendship is earned and he's earned mine in spades.  for all the things he's taught me, for all the people who've come into the hobby because of his tireless efforts...restoration of the 'weary erie' was my ever so small way of saying "thank you."
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 1st, 2008, 8:59pm
hi all,
 
dan: here's the view that had the car been mine, tears would have been flowing.  sooooo many memories, sooooo many stories, and sooooo many miles on this caboose it would have been hard to turn loose of it.  as pockets can tell you, it was a constant struggle to balance building new to restoring old.  what to be careful of and what to renew/rebuild.  as has been said before, it would have been much easier to start from scratch.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 1st, 2008, 9:05pm
hi all,
 
dan:  here's a view of the rebuild in progress.  at this point, the car is back together and the roof is being built.
 
to all: it was a blast to work on!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 1st, 2008, 9:11pm
hi all,
 
to all:  recapping the erie rebuild for dan and some of the new folks.  on this project, even the underside got some attention.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 1st, 2008, 9:26pm
hi all,
 
to dan and all:  the photo below was taken at the '08' un-meet.  you're seeing the erie caboose as delivered.  as a side note, i'd saved all the roof and all the bits and pieces that had been taken off the 'weary erie'.  with bruce the larger's help, we presented them to bruce r as the results of a 'mishap' i'd had on the way down.  i had, btw, a tire blow-out just before i'd gotten to my hotel the night before.  the look on his face was priceless!  you don't fool him for very long, it only took seconds for him to figure out that we were pulling his leg!  the most satisfying feeling i get is to see the faces of my friends when their caboose are finally revealed.  even more so is seeing them heading out on the high iron.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 1st, 2008, 9:50pm
hi all,
 
rick:  you asked about the grooved plywood that i use.  the answer to where to get it is to make it.  i do all my own work with my 'armstrong' lumber mill.  see photo below!  with a steady pace, i can groove enough wood for a single caboose in just 1 hr 45 mins, much longer if i take a pevo break!  note to all at home, adult beverages and power tools don't mix.  a pevo break means i'm done for the day.  i try to use a furniture grade plywood for both the foundation and the sides.  5 ply or better if i can get it...its a little more stable, has much fewer voids (voids ruin your work).  since most of my cars are 48 inches or less in main body length, i like the exterior grain to run vertical with the grooves.  higher grades of plywood offer another plus, you can hide the roving wood grain much easier than with course plys like b-c or c-d grades.  most of the better supply houses take much better care of the higher grades than the big box stores take with the more common grades.  in short, most b-c or c-d grades are warped or soon will be after the grain tensions are released when you are doing the grooving operation.  rick, let me know if you need more info.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 12:00am
Moose,
I made my request for your "drawings" with some trepidation as I was afraid that you might be building your projects "from brain to grain".  Actually I do the same thing, although the fruits of my labors are much sparser.  Usually a few sketches on graph paper is about all I do.  Anyway, I will welcome whatever you can provide me.  
Bruce,
I also completely forgot about the Erie caboose while I was there.  Bummer.  I'll make a point of looking for it next time.
Dan
Posted by: Rick_Pike Posted on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 8:11pm
Moose,
  Thanks for the reply. That was what I had planned to do, just wasn't sure if there were any other sources. I am planning to build some wood reefers as my next project. Didn't know if the saw blade would make a too wide gap or if I could get a smaller blade for the circular saw. The only time I use my saw is to rip or cut off something. Thanks for the help.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 9:21pm
hi all,
 
rick:  my helpful hint to (it's our secret...don't tell a soul!) you is to use a plywood blade.  i budget a new blade for every project.  constant running shallow through a glue layer causes the teeth to stay too hot.  running through ordinary wood fiber isn't a problem, the blades last a lot longer.  when you see blue and the smell the burn, it's time to change.  by creating your grooves no deeper than 1/16th inch, you can prime and paint with just about any technique you want.  deeper grooves allow thicker paints to 'glop' together...just unappealing.  so why not use a veining bit in a router?  it's been my experience that no matter how hard i tried, the bit tears out some of the wood grain.  i spent more time repairing the tear-outs than building the car.  the plywood blade isn't perfect, but it works.  if you're going to cut across the grain, tape it up with masking tape.  that will cut down on the amount of repair you have to do as the blade moves up on the back side and down through the cut on the front side.
 
to all:  power saws are can be hazardous to your fingers, use with care...lots of care!  2nd helpful hint, on table saws, cut the wood good side up, on circular saws and radial arm saws, good side down.  those tricks will help elimnate tear-outs on the visible side of your plywood.  the use of masking tape helps with both sides.
 
dan:  i was in the entertainment industry so long that for building sets and scenery, the plans sent down by the production designers were usually wrong.  given the critical dimensions of space, usage, ratio, and production requirements, sketching on cocktail napkins provided the needed reminders for construction.  i created technical drawings only for outside vendors...or for folks who had a problem visualizing a special set piece or process.  this way of working will change once i start making metal chips.  
 
btw, pockets and george h will lol and recognize that when a plan set is good and has been used is by the scribbles and coffee stains!  clean drawings are left out as eye-candy for the unknowing!
 
moose
 
 
on Oct 2nd, 2008, 8:11pm, Rick_Pike wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moose,
  Thanks for the reply. That was what I had planned to do, just wasn't sure if there were any other sources. I am planning to build some wood reefers as my next project. Didn't know if the saw blade would make a too wide gap or if I could get a smaller blade for the circular saw. The only time I use my saw is to rip or cut off something. Thanks for the help.

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2008, 9:52pm
Well, per ol' Moosey's request, he now has the sketches and notes on how I'd build the windows (right or wrong).  He was going to pick up an arm load of brass (Short pieces, but lots of them) and take a shot at it. It's just an upscaled version of how I built working double hungs when I was in O Scale.
 
Greg B
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 4th, 2008, 8:36pm
hi all,
 
pockets, i'm most thankful for both the drawings and the time you took to put your thoughts on paper.  and you're right, it's going to take a lot of brass structure pieces!  the scaled-up windows that we are talking about have a closer-to-scale look than the dollhouse windows i've been using.  dollhouse windows were better than what's out there for most caboose installations and i'll still use them where appropriate, but this method, as i've studied it in my mind, is going to put me much closer to me goal of building in a finer scale as time goes on.  
 
to all:  with pockets' permission, i'm going to build the first window unit by hand.  after that, i've figure out a jig to hold things in registration so i can speed up the process...there are 16 units to be made!  the first picture tonight was a test to see if the brass strips available lend themselves to the thickness of the wood siding...it does!
 
moose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 4th, 2008, 8:50pm
hi all,
 
ray:  are you ready for this?  the photo below shows why you haven't seen any recent postings from me.  i've been building 'furniture'.  all the bunks have been built, but there's still the top seat/bed for each to be made.  an added bonus to how they were constructed...you can store the marker lights below them.  when i've gotten the cupola area built to where i want it, i'll go back and build to desks, lockers, etc.
 
to all: this project is a helluva build to do, but it's incredibly fun!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 4th, 2008, 9:06pm
hi all,
 
here's a look at the interior of one of the bunks.  for those who are interested, the angles used for the front of the bunks were 18.5 degrees x 45 degrees.  made from 1/4" stock, the internal supports are recessed to hold the lid.  note to self - count all fingers, yep, they're all still there!  a couple of the bunks were also inletted to cover  the 3/4" braces for holding the body to the foundation.  once painted and covered by the other furniture pieces, the braces will disappear, unless you can get low enough to look!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 4th, 2008, 9:20pm
hi all,
 
the cupola area got some attention today as well.  having obtained a small sears 1.5 battery charger, i decided to mount it under the cupola right-side seating area.  although the charger will end up with a cover over it, the cover will be removable.  the charger will be mounted on a diagonal so that it may be seen easier.  here's a photo of the main mounting block.  the charger was originally designed to be mounted on the fender-well of an automobile, so a heat-sink maybe necessary.  also shown is the trimming out of the doorway.  both of them are done tonight!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 4th, 2008, 9:29pm
hi all,
 
the last photo for tonight, the last bunk in the 'b' end of the caboose.  this one will be different from all the rest,  it will house all the switch controls for powering up the markers and internal caboose lighting.  gonna be fun wiring this puppy!  i'll show more about this thing goes together, later!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Oct 4th, 2008, 10:11pm
George, you have surpassed yourself with this one.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 4th, 2008, 10:48pm
He sure has, Bobby, but let's not get him too pumped up! Ol' Moose droppin's has kicked the bar up another notch. OMG! Compound miters on a 1:8 scale model.
 
I guess it's time to restate the obvious, for all of the new comers and the not so new comers that may need a reminder..... Cars of this caliber are models. Let that sink in. They deserve more care than to be just kicked into a storage track. Cars of the detail level that George is attaining are not to be sat on or leaned against. A very prominent member of this board has always advocated prototypical car handling. That would probably be the safest way to handle this caliber of model. Put the 0-5-0 switcher back in your pocket. There is a group, familiar to some of us, that is finding out how expensive "stupid" can be. I guess the long and short of it is: If you can't afford to own it, don't touch it....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 5th, 2008, 7:37am
I have had a chance to sleep on my previous post and it strikes me that I my be creating a misconception concerning the delicacy of this caliber car. This level of construction is quite capable of day to day operation and will reward their owners and spectators with some badly needed eye candy, in a sea of steel tub gons.
 
What they WON'T do, is suffer the fools, the careless and the clumsy well. If SWMBO won't let you set the Thanksgiving table, with Grandma's china, cars of this level of construction may not be for you.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: Pennsy Posted on: Oct 5th, 2008, 10:08am
Interesting point Greg. It usually turns out that such well built units are also capable of handling misfortunes quite well and can easily be repaired. So I wouldn't be afraid to ride in it. In fact, more than likely, there will be a line around the block waiting to ride in it. Mostly kids I'll bet. Kids from seven to seventy.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Oct 5th, 2008, 11:01am
George, I am speechless.    Your work is just amazing, and you are so gifted.    The interior is the icing on a cake.   man that looks good.  Ray III
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 5th, 2008, 11:15am
Alan,
I'm going to pirate George's thread, for a minute. I don't think he will mind, as I'm going to try and express his and my philosophy on large scale railroading. For whatever reasons, we arrived here from the smaller scales. One of the things that struck us was the tinplate level of detail that predominates in the larger scales. There are exceptions, of course, but they only serve to emphasize the others. What George and I are attempting is to put the "model" back into large scale model railroading.
 
I ran a poll, in another thread. The cars that I was talking about would be of this caliber. I was fairly underwhelmed by the number of responses, but I did get some good information. It seems that there is a place in the hobby for a craftsman type kit....  
 
Alan, I have to disagree with you on one thing, though. These are not rider cars. Never mind the risk to the car, riders belong on T-cars, just from the safety aspect. These are operating railroads and they can injure the unknowing. I digress....
 
Thanks for the space, George,
Greg B.  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 5th, 2008, 8:45pm
hi all,
 
many thanks for the compliments, but this thread is about pushing oneself to do better.  it's also about showing others that they too, can do something like it.  you'll find with every new project i work on, i too am growing in my research, approach, and skills.
 
alan:  great to have you here again!  about the hearty-ness of the equipment we build, in some respects, you're right.  the equipment has to be able to handle the normal crash and bang of train movements.  i do that with steel centersills.  what it cannot handle are the thoughtless ones who mishandle the details on the equipment.  just because it has step units doesn't mean that you can pick them up by grabbing them.  pockets and i both laugh at the idea of building in steel ledgerboards on my cabooses because they would make great handles for picking them up...the idea IS receiving serious consideration.  i also don't build in seats for my equipment because of the wear and tear caused by getting in and out.  i'll repair anything i build...within reason!  if you go back a page or two, you'll see the wm caboose back in the shop because some folks thought it was a good idea to haul it at 80 mph in an open trailer.  this car was built for a gentleman who hasn't seen the finished product yet.  he's been held up at his home in indiana for more than a year and a half.  the car was being held in a semi-finished state to allow him to add lighting and markers.  aside from the transport damage, this car was stored in a careless manner...more details broken.  i now have to restore it to new condition.  how many people you know of that transport railroad equipment in open trailers at 80 mph?  had the transport been done in an enclosed trailer or other vehicle, and had they taken care to store it properly, i wouldn't have to do all this work.   the heart of the matter is that all they had to do was ask...they were in too big of a hurry!  the bulk of the ic and the wm cabooses have to be done so i can finish a bass guitar and dulcimer for my godson.  it's all about time and woodchips.
 
to all:  to echo pockets' thoughts on public riding cars, i've been and still are a member of a club that pulls the public.  if you're pulling the public in open cars...ergo, gons, hoppers, flatcars, etc..you're fooling yourself!  cars that put the public's feet farther than 2 to 3 inches from the right-of-way invites law suits.  know this, NO written, signed, and agreed upon waiver is going to stop a hungry lawyer from getting to you or your insurance company!  the t-riders pockets spoke of are the best solution at the moment.  a t-rider allows the passenger the natural option to save themselves.  it does take a good conductor to make sure they don't abuse the privilege.  if you're a private track hauling invited friends and live steamers, you can do as you please...the dangers are still there, but we readily accept them.
 
ray:  more to come, but i got rained out today...sorry!
 
pockets:  thanks for being who you are!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 8th, 2008, 9:24pm
hi all,
 
progress on the ic caboose has slowed a bit due to rain, the precision of the next few steps, and the need to grab another handful of materials.  i've finally been able to pull out and true up the saw table to adjust for a blade drift of about 1/8".  on a straight-line cut, it's not soo bad, but on compound angles, it's a waste of materials.  what is blade drift?  it's the ability of the blade to wobble in either the vertical plane or the horizontal or both.  in my case, it was horizontal drift.  i spent an afternoon shimming the blade arbor to run true to the fence.  this procedure should be done at setup on all stationary saws, but frequently isn't.  someone who's serious about woodworking will keep an eye on saw precision after periods of heavy use.  shoving lumber through a saw takes it's toll on the arbor shaft and bearings.  well, i got my drift on a 10" blade down to 1/32"...enough to restart my work, but something to keep an eye on.
 
any who, here's a view of what has been added since the last posting.  in the 'a' front left corner, the 'dunny' and lockers are being fitted up.  they're not done yet, but will go in once the windows are ready.  the flooring is also being put it...slowly!  the damp weather plays hob on basswood.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 8th, 2008, 9:37pm
hi all,
 
the battery charger is temporarily installed.  there are plenty of 1.5 amp chargers around, but most are on rubber feet.  i had to look long and hard to find one that mounted on a fender like this one.  works perfectly when mounted on an angle...you can see it with the roof on or off.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 8th, 2008, 9:43pm
hi all,
 
here's picture peering in through the 'a' end door.  gonna be interesting when more of the detail has been completed!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 8th, 2008, 9:52pm
hi all,
 
the work continues, the ic caboose has its roof fascia mocked up...no, it's not gonna look exactly like this, but i'll be engineering a double-fascia drop-in system much like the erie caboose.  it's just gonna take time to get the pieces worked out and installed.  the 'b' roof has received some smoothing efforts to get things ready for the tar paper.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Oct 8th, 2008, 10:04pm

 
   George,
 
   W O W...You are really out-doing yourself on this one!!!!! The interior  was'nt something that I was ready for. I can't wait to see it.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Oct 8th, 2008, 11:23pm
George FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Oct 9th, 2008, 12:03am
Now this is what I would call a Taylor-Made caboose! Yes, pun was fully intended. George if you don't finish this hack soon, we the peanut gallery are going to pumb run out of adjectives.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 9th, 2008, 7:10am
Moosey,
How do you plan to route power to that charger? Just a thought, but how about a computer power cord and mating male receptical, down through the floor? It would eliminate the dragging of an extension cord through that nice interior....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 11th, 2008, 3:28pm
hi all,
 
testing!
 

 
trying multiple images...just like justin!
 

 
possibly my next project!
 

 

 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 11th, 2008, 3:57pm
Man, talk about deflation! We're all pumped up for the latest moose droppings, over here, and what do we get?  
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 11th, 2008, 9:20pm
hi all,
 
greg:  test is over!  
 
to all:  slipped eccentric taught me a few things over the last couple of weeks...how to post multiple images within a post.  you'd think that it would be evident...well, i guess i can still learn a few things from a young whippersnapper!  thank you justin!  you kicked the cobwebs from the corners of my mind.
 
for a couple of days now, i've been busy building furniture for the ic caboose.  may not seem like much, but sometimes you can build the full size items faster than the model size.  years ago, with all the machinery set up, i could cut and finish enough lumber for 5 or 6 custom tables aday.  it's all about production.  well, the table for the ic caboose was different, i haven't done this kind of work in years.  in my conversations with pockets, i was asked why doesn't it have a working drawer?  after all, the full size did in the photos that i've found.  making a working drawer taking almost as much time as the table itself.  well, i figured out how to do it!  if there's time, i'll build it.  there's still a lot i want to get to.
 
the first picture is the overall impression of the interior with the table.
 

 
if you were looking at the interior through the 'a' end door, this is a better view of the table.
 

 
the table wasn't the only thing i was working on.  there's an icebox in the corner at the end of the bunk.  there's still some more work to be done before the detail becomes evident.
 

 
one last view for tonight, a look from the other end!
 

 
there was a few more things going on, but those items will have to wait!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Oct 11th, 2008, 11:49pm

 
   O-M-G !! George, your NUTZ. This caboose has gone WAY over the edge.
 
   Ray, start making a glass case for it, heh,heh,heh.
 
   
   Your envious friend, Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 18th, 2008, 10:44pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  one batch in the bottle and a second on the brew!
 
to all:  my schedule has changed a bit due to a co-worker with menengitis(he's going to be fine), so between working extra hours and kicking a skytrain project in high gear...shop time has been in short supply.   as those who build know all too well, you can't cheat the process.  while there are still things to be done on the interior, i need to get the undercarriage done.  the detail work is now getting delicate and moving the car around by hand will soon be out of the question.  in the mean time, i've also wanted to get back to the wm caboose so i could get it out of the shop.  i need the build space it is currently sitting in.   when i arrived home friday morning, i set about one of the tasks necessary to make that happen.  i put on the 'tar paper' roof.
 
it's also come to my attention that some may not know how i do it.  well, here's a picture of the basic materials.
 

 
that's right, primer paint, paper shop towels, and a paint brush(okay...and a 5-n-1 tool to open the paint can).  you simply pre-paint the roof, apply the paper towels, and re-coat to soak with paint.
 

 
 
as long as you work carefully and methodically, it works!
 

 
when the paint has cured, i'll re-coat again and then prime the rest of the cupola.
 
ray:  just in case you thought the ic caboose wouldn't get any attention!
 

 

 
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
 
 
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Oct 19th, 2008, 7:24am

 
   George,
 
   I'm speachless!! And ,I'm fully aware of how unuseual that may sound to folks that really know me!
 
   The work your doing on that IC cab, well, I'm speachless.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 24th, 2008, 6:22pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  many thanks for the compliments...i just hope others will follow our examples and try things for themselves.  btw, 2 batches in the bottle!
 
to all:  i'm serious about getting you to try my techniques for yourself.  once you try them, you can change'em to suit yourself.  it's that easy once you've put in enough time to gain the skills.
 
about the wm caboose, here's where it's at up and until today.  in the photo below, the interior has been painted and allowed to cure.  no great revelation here!
 

 
in the next photo, the exterior has been masked off (my favorite blue tape) and the tar paper has been painted flat black.
 

 
when that coat of paint cured, the interior and roof were masked off in preparation for the cupola exterior paint.  that was done today...photos after it is cured!
 
about the ic caboose, it also got some attention over the last week.  the weather is starting to change...gettin' wetter!?  so i'm trying to get the carbody primer as soon as i can.  to do that, i have to sand the individual grooves smooth and in a 'v' shape to create a semi tongue-n-groove look.  it is also necessary in getting rid of any splinters or saw fuzz from the grooving process.  here's a look at how far the carbody is at the moment.
 

 
still a ways to go!
 
enjoy,  
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 24th, 2008, 7:21pm
hi all,
 
the trucks for the ic caboose are here!  man, are they gorgeous!  great job ray, you snagged a winner!  for those who aren't familiar, the icrr like some many others, used barber trucks for their cabin cars.  there are several different variations, the trucks shown below are one of those.  not only is the level of detail greater than what is generally found in the hobby, but the leaf springs are functional via a central spring plank.  i talked to ray tonight about how i climbed into the box and found a problem...there's only one set of trucks!  oh well!
 
here's a side view of them.
 

 
a view from the top.
 

 
and another from the bottom.
 

 
the journal box detail!
 

 
i think all will agree that they will set off the ic caboose to a 't'!
 
ray, ya done good!  now just tell the others how you came across them!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: B+MNW21201 Posted on: Oct 25th, 2008, 8:43pm
Hey Ray, it looks like your caboose will be done before the engine. hee hee.  
 
George, you are an artist in the medium of wood and steel.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 26th, 2008, 7:27pm
hi all,
 
bobby:  thanks for the vote of confidence...but anybody can do what i do given time and a willingness to try it.
 
to all:  over the last two or three days, a lot of small operations have been performed.  mostly refining and priming some of the furniture that i previous assembled.  due to a family-involved event on saturday, i didn't get much of what i wanted to do, done.  however, work continues on both the ic caboose as well as the wm caboose.  the photo below shows the cupola for the wm caboose in it's first color coat, just your basic black.
 

 
the windows for this car have received their inner and outer coats of paint, making them ready for installation.  when i'm happy with the cupola and how it will be mounted on the carbody, the windows will be installed.
 
work on the ic caboose?  not only did the furniture see some refinement, i had a chance to work out the undercarriage and centersill.  the pieces shown in the photo, need further work, but you can see the basic look of the frame.  
 

 
ic used h-beams in place of wooden needle beams for later builds and re-builds.  this is the look that i wanted to pull out for ray to see.  
 

 
still a lot work left before welding can take place.  i'm going down to my neighbor's shop to get the coupler pockets milled out in order to weld 1" c-channel on both sides.  ultimately, i will build transition-era cars with steel centersills from h-beams.  that's another step to be taken in my journey.
 
stay tuned!
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Oct 26th, 2008, 8:17pm
Boy, I'm glad to see all that steel in the underframe. Ol' Ray, being a good CSX hogger, is gonna tie that thing down and use it as a bumper to build his train on!  ;)
 
Get about forty cars and that hack behind the Mike and it'll be fun when the slack runs in comin' off'n the trestle! Talk about a hammer!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Oct 26th, 2008, 9:54pm

 
   George,
 
   Between the beautiful craftsman type wood work and those very neat trucks, this thing is going to be almost too nice to "play with". Heh,heh,heh.
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Oct 29th, 2008, 7:44pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  some folks take their equipment and place them inside a coffee table...ray's gonna hafta do it with a dining room table!
 
to all:  the work continues...slowly, on both the wm caboose and the ic caboose.  the wm cupola has received the final paint and can receive the windows.  the photo below is the mock-up with the windows in place.
 

 

 
 
the cupola is now ready to be fastened to the roof and made permanent.  the wire-work is the next step for re-habing the wm cab.  the brass shades will follow that...that should see the wm cab out of the shop, finally!
 
in the mean time, the ic caboose has gotten more of the flooring installed.  cooler temps means the glue won't set up as fast as i would like, so the process slows down a bit.
 

 
it's starting to look more and more finished, even to me...but there's a long way to go!  in the photo below, the cupola battery box is getting it's siding put on.
 

 
it'll soon be time to start the electrical and make the conduit runs!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: Oct 31st, 2008, 9:47pm
Moose/George,
Hopefully you won't mind a "Dear Abby" type question in this thread.  I know you use scribed plywood for the outside of your wood caboose projects and they really look good.  But have you tried making your own "stripwood" and assembling the car sides from these?  
 
The reason I ask is that I have been contemplating a project to build an outside-braced boxcar with wood sheathing.  On these cars the wood siding runs behind steel bracing and is horizontal rather than vertical.  Also, the wood siding is wider.  Something like the boxcar in the link below:
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/ic171500asw.jpg
 
Seems like it might be easier to use separate strips.  What are your thoughts?
Posted by: Slipped_Eccentric Posted on: Nov 2nd, 2008, 1:30pm
Very nice work as always!  I'm glad I could be a teacher as well, lol.  Also, I haven't forgotten you, I'll have a few toys for you when I come down for the UnMeet...
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 2nd, 2008, 5:46pm
hi all,
 
dan:  never hesitate to ask!  about the strip-wood, i've gone round-n-round with my resident advisor about the very technique you speak of.   it is quite doable.  the caveat is that you have to use quarter sawn lumber to keep the grain runout from the 'boards' that run in different directions once the wood stresses are relieved by re-sawing. wood stresses can make a straight piece of scale lumber do amazing things...and cause a high degree of frustration(think twisted preztels).  to do this, you are going to haunt the high grade lumber yards and/or mail-order specialty shops(think millwork, furniture, etc) for kiln dried wood like basswood, some maples, some fruitwoods, some of the exotics, and even some nutwoods.  the wood you are looking for will have the growth rings perpendicular to the faces of the lumber and straight through the entire length of the board.  unlike buying a 2x4 stud, you are buying by the board/foot.  for those who don't know what a board/foot is think 1" thick x 12" wide x 12" long, that's a board/foot.  it doesn't matter what the actual dimensions of the piece is, mathmatically it will be converted to board/feet for payment purposes.  if you want a weathered, ragged exterior, you might try spanish cypress.  to a lesser extent, you could also use guitar woods(a bit on the expensive side).  using tight-grained quarter sawn lumber also gives the grainy effort of miniature boards.
 
okay, having said all that, why put all that time and effort into creating your own dimensionally stable lumber just to glue it to a piece of plywood?  why not go the extra mile and create a board-on-board body?  if you've done your homework, the plywood you would have used becomes your flat build template board.  this is how i layed up airplane wings, scale building interiors, and a few ship's keels.  some of the scrap lumber from your re-saw operation would provide internal support for you double walls.  don't want double walls?  by the time you add the external bracing, you're home free!  you see where i'm going with this dan?   you could start a new thread, right here on railfan!
 
justin:  many thanks for the kind words!  can't wait to see you again, let me know if you need a ride to the un-meet.
 
to all:  it's been raining this past weekend, so the shop has not been as busy as i would like.  i've gotten just about all the flooring done and have started on the windows.  even got a chance to experiment with the centersill for another model that's still a ways off.  the ic caboose centersill will be the beneficiary of this experience.  today was "relieve your personal stresses day" in largo...my friend tom and i built most of a switch as the trains went by.  gotten keep my hands into trackwork so they don't get lazy!
 
stay tuned,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 12th, 2008, 8:49pm
hi all,
 
work has slowed a bit on the ic caboose, but still there are things getting done.  the wm caboose is still recieving work on it's grabirons and other wirework.  it will be leaving before the end of the month...it's owner is back and would like to see it at long last.  for those that remember, the shay has been lifted off its storage track and onto the work bench.  as time permits, it will be disassembled and the frame lengthened.  the tender has also been removed from its frame and put in a place of honor overlooking all the shop activity.
 
this past saturday was a road trip day for 3 of us, so it was off to see the florida flywheelers november meet.  damn, what fun!  i'll post pictures soon.  more than 200 acres of antique steam, gas, and diesel, if it moved, it was either there or parts of it were.  we had a ball...note to self, take a john deere 300 next time to ride on.  note to pockets...you can go with when you bring the john deere 300 back down here.
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 16th, 2008, 8:40pm
hi all,
 
it's been fun in the shop, the wm caboose is almost back together.  most of repair work has been done.  most of the work now is finishing up the painting touch up.  cooler temps over the weekend slowed that process down a little.  at the moment, i'll waiting on a photo upload to show you the progress.
 
okay, here's a look at the 'b' end tonight.  the handrails and grab-irons have been put back in place.  the steps will be complete in the next day or two.
 

 
better view.  the cupola is now permanently fastened to the roof...now let them do 80 mph.
 

 
the last bit of construction to go is the creation of the roof grab-irons and window shades.  2 of the 4 grab-irons are made and the other 2 will be done in the next day or two.  the window shades take a little longer.
 

 
more to come...stay tuned!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 18th, 2008, 8:39pm
hi all,
 
the last of the grab-irons were made today!  tomorrow will see them fitted up and readied for painting.  the last bit of construction left to do on the wm caboose is the cupola shades.  stay tuned, i'll have photos shortly!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 19th, 2008, 8:39pm
hi all,
 
i've finally gotten to the cupola shades and they are done!  this was a task i don't exactly relish due to the sharp edges (i know, wear gloves) of the shim brass.  once the all the brasswork has been prepared and painted, i can finish the installation.  the wm caboose is soooo close to being done, again.  the photos below show the continuing work on getting this caboose out of here!
 
 

 

 
enjoy!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Nov 22nd, 2008, 5:20pm
hi all,
 
the wm caboose is soooo close to being able to leave the shop!  lower temps means the paint on the last 5 pieces of wirework still hasn't cured enough to be handled.  by tomorrow afternoon, they'll be installed and the caboose available for pick up.  i can now get back to the ic caboose!
 
pictures tomorrow!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 15th, 2008, 5:26pm
hi all,
 
i'm still out here.  computer problems have plagued me since thanksgiving.  i hope to have it solved in the next few days.   the wm caboose is gone and the work continues a pace on the ic caboose.  most of the underframe has been completed and will soon be finalized.  it's a matter of making sure the suspension and carbody work together.  i'm currently on a borrowed computer so no pictures, but keep your fingers crossed!  it's going to be a race to the finish....the caboose and the mike!
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Dec 15th, 2008, 7:06pm

 
   George,
 
   Glad to see you back in here. Even without pics.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 21st, 2008, 8:15am
hi all,
 
bruce:  thanks for keepin' things going!  new computer is up and running, but still having some issues with everything that connects to it...ain't new technology wonderful?!  pockets is familiar with my situation.  i'll have everything back to 'normal' by the first week of january.  will be away this week, so keep'em in line!
 
on Dec 15th, 2008, 7:06pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
to all:  the ic caboose undercarriage is about 99% done, only some minor suspension details to take care of.  the carbody will be on it's wheels shortly!
 
moose
 
   George,
 
   Glad to see you back in here. Even without pics.
 
   Bruce

Posted by: pockets Posted on: Dec 21st, 2008, 8:38am
George,  
NORMAL is not a word usually associated with computers! At least not in my universe.
 
Good to have you back on line.
 
17*F, 12" on the ground and falling steadily. 2"-4", per da, forecast till Christmas. Time to put another log on the fire!!!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: Dec 21st, 2008, 1:05pm
Greg, time to be building that Clam Lake snow wedge!
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Dec 21st, 2008, 5:24pm
Bobby,
Been looking at the Sandy River's plow and a couple off of logging roads. Might skinny one of those Colorado flangers down to 2' gauge, too! Gotta build a railroad first, though!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 5th, 2009, 8:45pm
hi all,
 
thanks for keeping an eye on this thread while i was away!  we got back from our trip to discover that the venerable ford exploder needed more work than miracles could provide, so the new years' activities included tracking down a suitable replacement vehicle....WHAT to do with it will be another thread in the not TOO distant future.   for now, i have to spend another day on health issues then it's back into the shop...nose to the grindstone.  progress has been made.  i know ray's been wanting to know what's happenin'.
 
here's a glimpse of where i'm at.  i'll show the underframe construction in the next few days.
 
enjoy!
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 5th, 2009, 9:42pm
'bout time, too. Been a long dry spell!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 7th, 2009, 6:57pm
  George,
 
   As useual, its a pleasure to see your workmanship. I can't wait to see this neat caboose first hand. BTW, this up coming Un-Meet will have quite a few firsts.  
 
   A couple of new engines, a couple of new boilers, and a beautiful new caboose. WOW that should be something.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 10th, 2009, 7:59pm
hi all,
 
today was the first day that i could and did spend on just the ic caboose.  blissfully spending time with just the caboose on my mind!  i haven't had this much time to spend since just after thanksgiving.
 
that having been said, alot has been done since i last posted a progress report.  since then, we've added a few new folks to the list that are interested in building their own equipment.  i personally want to welcome chris to this thread and invite him to let me know when he'll be starting his project.  as i have oft said, our journey is along individual paths.  pockets, myself, and the other old hands are here to help you.
 
ray:  the ic caboose got a big push today!  the undercarriage was de-greased and primed today!  here's a look back at how it started.
 
the fit up.

 

 
to finally getting primed.  sorry, the in between parts got erased by a family member before i could save them.  a welder i'm not, but my work gets better with each new project...no, the next won't be a boiler!
 

 
as it sits on the trucks.

 
i must say that this frame is one of the heaviest yet, even with out adding any ballast to it.  steel...does a body good!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 10th, 2009, 8:28pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  yes, you're right!  the un-meet '09 will be the best ever...lots and lots of good things coming together.  synergy of time, place, people, and machines will make this one memorable...just memorable!  if i have the time, i'll rebuild the control head for the blue welder.  right now, ray's ic has my 'rapt' attention!
 
to all:  a variety of woodworking got done today as well.  from modifying windows to installing the ledger boards, the ic caboose is moving along.
 
the photo below shows an empty space where a filler piece is needed for a small section of roof to be placed.  it will in the not too distant future, be the area where footboard supports will be installed just below the cupola windows.  this view is of the left side.
 

 
the picture below is of the ride side with the filler pieces installed.  it still needs some shaping before the roofing material is applied.  
 

 
next up was modifying dollhouse windows to fit the frame openings.  chris, this one's for you buddy!  in the not too distant future, i'll be leaving this technique behind and moving to a 'truer' scale window technique that pockets' graciously forwarded to me.  also note that the inletting has been done on this side for the caboose lanterns that ray wants to use....looks alot like bruces'!
 

 
also on tap today, the roof fascia boards were re-sawn, sanded, fitted and installed!  this step alone puts me closer to where i can finish the entire roof.  as soon as the stove pipe support has been installed, i can paint the roof and get it ready for catwalk details.
 

 
here's how it looks tonight!
 

 
more to come!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 10th, 2009, 8:30pm

 
   Looking good, George !!!  Very good indeed.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 10th, 2009, 8:55pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  thanks for the confidence!  tomorrow should see the car ready for a complete coat of primer.  i have to wait for the primer to harden on the undercarriage before i can do too much more with it.  can't wait to see you guys and the bcrr...what a dream road it has become.   i'm glad that i can count pete b as a good friend, i couldn't be moved that he's sharing his refuge with us once again.  the bcrr has become my place of choice to debut new equimpment.  you know how much showing cars to other builders means to me.  many thanks to pete and all the bcrr crew.
 
moose
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jan 11th, 2009, 12:18am
George,  it looks sooooooooo good.   I can't wait to see it in person.   If all goes well I should have something to pull it with.  Ray III
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 11th, 2009, 9:46am
George,
That latest surgery really looks nice. And nobody noticed!
 
Like I said, in a much earlier post, if Ray doesn't like it I'm sure the Clam Lake can find a home for it. It should make a nice looking hunting cabin ;, set back in the trees with a beat up pick up out front!  
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 15th, 2009, 7:27pm
hi all,it's been busy at work, but the ic caboose continues to take shape.  more of the interior and exterior trim is underway.  the big push right now is to get the conduit pipe in for the electrical system.  those who know me, know that i've been a signal 'tron chaser for more than a few years.  the work philosophy is make safe, make it rugged, and make it so it can be maintained.  scale conduit makes the installation neater and safer, but harder to maintain.  so i've chosen a blended method to my madness.  i'm going to use conduit, but not the junction boxes.  it won't look as neat as it should, but it can be repaired in a hurry...with a little patience.  where a junction/splice has to be made will be open.  where a 90 degree ell is required will be done with a sweep.  so far, it's been fairly easy to do...providing that the wire being used was already in the conduit.  i'm using 1/8" brass and aluminum tubing, getting the tubing bent without kinking was a problem.  pre-loading the tubing with the wire solved that issue because of the mass of the wire kept the tubing from collapsing.here's a view of the preliminary runs.
 

 

 
the image below is showing where the wiring enters the distribution console.
 

 
there's more, but that's for this weekend!btw, greg, your eyes weren't deceiving you, the door jamb was off by @ 1/64th of an inch...movement of the sawblade at a slight angle makes a shadow line that says the gap is greater.   okay, so i blame the camera lens...that's my story and i'm stickin' to it!  
 
moose
Posted by: SnG42 Posted on: Jan 15th, 2009, 9:40pm
This really looks good. The authentic graffiti is a nice touch!
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 16th, 2009, 1:34pm
George,
Toljaso!!!!
 
Henry,
You beat me to it! I was going to suggest the brake line bender. For the 1/8" tube, it should give nice sweep 90s. BTW, I've built full size roll cages with tubing, a torch, a bag of sand and a suitably sized tree. Gitterdun!
 
Greg B.
Posted by: Henry Posted on: Jan 16th, 2009, 1:59pm
Moose,  
 
Looking good, boy will it look great behind the Mike!  
 
There are a number of inexpensive ways to bend small tubing without kinking it. Most auto parts stores sell at least one of two types of benders. One looks like a funky pair of pliers with two to four curved tubing sized and shaped channels one handle, a straight channelled anvile on the other and a degree scale on the side. They usually handle 3/16" or 1/4" OD to 3/8" OD tubing. I have a pair of those and it works pretty well. A cheaper style is a spring style bender that just slips over the tubing. Those can be had in smaller sizes, I have a small size set of those also. My favorite method is free if you have some sand handy, just fill the tube and bend!  
 
Henry  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 17th, 2009, 10:05pm
hi all,
 
henry:  thanks for the compliment...but thanks most of all for a place to teach others to follow their dreams.  having 'railfan' as a home base for posting my work is a delicious treasure.  i'd forgotten about using sand as a bending aid,  in another 'lifetime' i'd been around a musical instrument manufacturer that used hot pine pitch poured into their brass tubes to aid in the bending process.  when the pitch cooled solid, they would bend the tubes to shape.  once they were satisfied, the tubes were heated and the pitch poured out to be re-used again.  no deformation of the tubes.  as pockets and i talked the other day, it dawned on me that for 1/8th inch tubes, normal sands aren't fine enough.  the next time i start bending, i'll try fuller's earth.  again, thanks for helping us keep it 'real'!
 
on Jan 16th, 2009, 1:59pm, Henry wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moose,  
 
Looking good, boy will it look great behind the Mike!  
 
There are a number of inexpensive ways to bend small tubing without kinking it. Most auto parts stores sell at least one of two types of benders. One looks like a funky pair of pliers with two to four curved tubing sized and shaped channels one handle, a straight channelled anvile on the other and a degree scale on the side. They usually handle 3/16" or 1/4" OD to 3/8" OD tubing. I have a pair of those and it works pretty well. A cheaper style is a spring style bender that just slips over the tubing. Those can be had in smaller sizes, I have a small size set of those also. My favorite method is free if you have some sand handy, just fill the tube and bend!  
 
Henry  

Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 17th, 2009, 10:28pm
hi all,
 
a little birdie told me that our new friend chris will build a new caboose in the not too distant future!  i was also told that he liked the idea of using dollhouse windows to add a higher level of detail than most first time builders get into.
 
so....chris...and all you lurkers out there, here's how the windows for the ic caboose are being done.  the photo below shows the as-built window from the supplier on the right and my modified window on the left
 
 

 
in all, i took about 3/8 inch out of the width of the window frame.  the windows are made from basswood, so with care they are easily modified and repaired.  normally, i would disassemble the entire unit, but decided to try to do what most of you would think about doing...make a straight cut through it.  so why did i do it down the side?  old scenery masters' trick, the eye want's to see symmetry so let it.  if you make the cut down the center, the eye of the beholder will see any quirks or mistakes far faster than off to the side.  we look to the center before seeing anything else.  a glance to the side is all most an after thought.  a mistake or quirk placed there may elicit study or even puzzlement before the brain says anything.  so how will i hide the cuts?  as pockets says, bondo hides a lot of sins.  in this case, i'll use(d) a fine grain filler with a minimum of 2 applications and some judicious use of fingernail files to do the final smoothing.
 
with all that said, here's a look at parting of one of the window units.
 

 
a simple process, but go at it slow and easy!  basswood can be fragile, to lessen the amount of repair work, support everything!  if you do break something you really didn't want to, a good quality caa type superglue works wonders.
 
here's the effect i'm going for from the prototype....
 

 
and here's where i'm at tonight.  
 

 
 
still a long way to go, but we're gettin' there.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 17th, 2009, 10:56pm
okay, there's more...
 
the windows weren't the only items receiving attention in the last couple of days.  the side-door on the 'b' side is getting framed out.  here's a look at how the sill work was done.
 

 
in the photo above, you can see 2 of the 3 pieces of basswood that make up the doorsill.  the view below shows the profile of what i'm shooting for.  a 4th piece is still missing.  i need to install a diagonal or a cove cut piece under the actual sill for support...but that's for tomorrow!
 

 
what else got done?  i'm working towards getting the roof and cupola ready for finishing details.  to do that, anything that needs support must be done now.  the smoke jack is one of those.
 
 

 
that's enough for tonight.  
 
enjoy,  
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 18th, 2009, 9:42pm
hi all,
 
since the roof will be the first major sub-assembly to be completed, i've gone ahead and modified all the window units for it.  there are 8 windows in the average cupola and in the case of the ic caboose, they are all dollhouse attic windows.
 
since i've already shown how the side windows were done, i'll concentrate on the front and rear cupola windows.  the side window units were merely straight cut along one edge and re-assembled.  the window units for the rest of the cupola were completely disassemble, meaning carefully destroyed.  here's an old photo of the start of the process.
 

 
measurements were carefully taken(...remember to measure twice and cut once) and the cuts were made.  the units were assembled at the factory with super-glue so a small amount of shock applied with a steady force will break the bonds.  i'll say this, you must use a quality caa glue (super-glue) to re-assemble in a timely fashion.  you can use other wood glues, but you're gonna wait awhile.  don't even try to use the dime store brands of super-glue, you'll just make a mess with it.
 
the photo below is of the stock unit compared to the modified one.  the stock unit is on the left.
 

 
the modified unit may look finished, but the detail work has only just begun.  the unit will have it's imperfections filled and sanded, then placed on the cupola for the application of additional details.  here's a look at the cupola getting closer to where it will start looking like an ic caboose.
 

 
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 18th, 2009, 9:56pm
hi all,
 
got a chance to do a couple more detail items today other than the window units.  a couple of months back, ray sent some gorgeous trucks my way.  over the last week, i got the chance to disassemble, clean them with alcohol, and prime them.  the trucks are cast aluminum so they have to be primed with a good etching primer in order to hold their top coat.  with the colder weather, it took a few more days to cure.  a couple of days ago, i got them into their top coat and today i re-assembled them.    ray...you're going to have a hard time prying them out of my hands!
 

 
just wait unti the journal box covers are added!
 
remember the detail piece i wanted to add to the door jamb?  here's a look at it now.
 

 
and there's more to come...stay tuned!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jan 18th, 2009, 10:39pm
George,  beautiful work!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 19th, 2009, 7:45pm
hi all,
 
ray:  thanks for the compliment...but i've got to tell ya, it's not as hard to work on as your mike!  
 
to all:  sometimes the work you want to do just can't be done due to conditions.  in this case, the interior paint on the cupola needed more time to cure.  when matching close-fitting parts and the 'dry' paint feels 'sticky', it's time to set it aside and allow extra curing time.  this means the detail work on the cupola roof will wait a couple more days.  on to other tasks...and on a project like this, there are always other things to do.  here's a look at what happened today.
 
 
the endsills needed to be made and fitted, here's the 'b' end.
 

 
the next item happened to be the 'b' end roof supports that remain on the car and aren't lifted away with the roof.  much like the erie caboose, additional supports will be added.
 

 
 

 

 
and finally, the corner braces...something that requires alot of thought, planning and checking.  if you don't, you're going to be cutting them out numerous times!  they require 2 angle cuts and 1 compound cut...think fancy furniture legs.  did i have to re-do any of mine?  no, i got it right the first time!  remember, alot of thought and planning go into this type of work.  whether it's woodworking or metalworking, visualize the end product and work backwards through the processes.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: Jan 20th, 2009, 7:39am
George, you are pushing that bar higher and higher. You are doing a wonderful job on this caboose. Your finest yet!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 21st, 2009, 7:40pm
hi all,
 
bobby:  thanks for the compliment...but i've got to tell ya that when your work is going to be paired with one of the most beautiful mikes comin' down the track, ya better do a good job!
 
to all:  it's been really cold today...even in florida.  cold enough to effect the work i want to do to the ic caboose.   work is getting done, but just a little slower than i'd like it to be.  getting titebond to set it's initial tack was agonizing until i realized there was a device that would speed up the process...a blow dryer.  the heat and air flow did the trick!  here's a glimpse of a couple of items that have been worked on in the shop.
 
look the erie caboose, i'm doing something a little unothrodox with the platform roof supports.  as the ledger boards clear the carbody and reach toward the end of the roof, they're quite fragile.  to compensate for this, i've added some extra braces.  the braces also support the inside fascia board.  this fascia board is there to support and terminate ladder and handrails.  more on that a little later, for now, here's where i'm at.
 

 
the photo above shows the longitudinal support for the fascia board.  in the upper part of the photo, the angle brace is being fitted.  here's a better view of that.
 

 
one last photo for tonight. the floor will next another going over with stain to smooth out the coloring, a little varnish and a good mopping!
 

 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 21st, 2009, 8:29pm

 
   Man, I love those roof over hang support struts. Nice, nice touch. Can't wait to see here rolling along the BCRR ROW behind Ray's Mike.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jan 21st, 2009, 9:41pm
George,  I'm speechless.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 25th, 2009, 7:16pm
hi all,
 
ray:  don't worry about it...i wish it was finished too!  some day, i'm going to build something for myself!  
 
to all:  where to start?  there's been alot happening with the caboose since i last posted...so let's start with the last post.  in that post, i'd just installed the platform roof supports.  if you look back at how i did the erie's roof supports, you'll notice that i put woodscrews in through the back of the supports and the carbody.  well, someone of close aquaintance (pockets) was afraid i'd forgotten to strengthen them.  many of you know that our thought processes are similar and we can almost finish each others' thoughts.  rarely do friends of that caliber come along...i'm blessed to know several that regularly post here on railfan.  for pockets and myself, car building is about the process as well as seeing it roam the rails.  it's why we enjoy each others' comments...whatever they are!
 
okay, back to the model.  in my design process, i knew that i would reinforce the roof supports, but wasn't keen about using woodscrews like i had on the erie.  if the screws ever stripped out, repairing would require a change in tactics.  so, why not change materials and processes used?  i initially wanted to use 1/8th inch rod glued in place, but that would require a glue that would be hard to work with later.  pockets suggested hardwood dowel pins...more to my liking because they could be drilled out and replaced.  there's always a catch, hardwood dowels sometimes have a grain that runs contrary to what you want to do...besides, i didn't have any and 1/8th inch dowels aren't that common at hardware stores any more.  what to do?   i needed to find something strong and easy to hand...just happens that someone in my family likes oriental food.  bamboo skewers available at most grocery stores and cheap to boot!   bamboo?  yeah, it's the grass that thinks its' a hardwood.  tough and straight-grained, bamboo can be worked easily while retaining its' strength.
 
in the photo below, i bored each of the supports 1 1/4" deep with drill that's one size over the required 1/8th inch.  drilling slightly over means that there's room for the glue when the pin is inserted.  when the glue set, a razor saw was used to trim the bamboo close to the body and support pieces, then sanded smooth.  the pin and roof support are inseparable, a single unit.  as seen from the front.
 

 
as installed from the inside of the carbody.
 

 
 
strong as the dickens and easily repaired if it becomes necessary.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 25th, 2009, 7:41pm
hi all,
 
continuing, the ic caboose also got more of the electrical conduct installed today.  the photo below shows the sweep that guides the wiring into the switching console.  the wiring will be purposely left open to make repair a snap.
 

 
for main power off of the charger, i separated the positive and negative lines into their own conduits.  the pic below shows the routing of the positive conduit.  it hadn't been installed yet, but gives an idea of where it will be.  if there's a problem with a short in the conduit at this  point, it's isolated and shouldn't lead to any major problems.
 

 
here's the 'a' end cupola wall with the negative conduit being installed.
 

 
and here's how the conduits will look once the walls are finally installed.
 

 
still a ways to go on the electrical system, but ya startin' ta get the idea?!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 25th, 2009, 7:57pm
hi all,
 
this was the weekend that alot of little things got some attention.  most of the window openings got framed in and some priming got done.
 

 

 
and the flooring also got its' second application of stain.  pockets and i both thought that it would need a darker (black) stain to settle into the cracks of the floorboards to set it off, but even in bright sunlight, the grooves were evident.
 

 
the car is also sitting on its' trucks, again!  the underframe and under-side of the foundation board have been painted their final color, black.
 

 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 25th, 2009, 8:03pm
hi all,
 
this photo just for pockets!
 

 
the crew lockers are almost complete and ready for detailing.  no, they aren't out of whack...the camera lends a fish-eye effect with its' cheap lens.
the idea to use sheet plastic on the locker core was pockets' suggestion...it worked and looks great.  thanks!
 
that's all for tonight.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 25th, 2009, 8:59pm
Ol' Moose dropin's is too kind. He makes it sound like I have an active part in building this caboose. It ain't so. This is all his work. We talk almost every day, on a wide range of subjects. We are both builders, so, inevitably we end up discussing process and materials. We use each other as sounding boards. No one knows everything and as some of us "mature" remembering what we DO know becomes an issue.
 
In a perfect world, a project gets built three times. Once in your mind, once on paper and once in the physical world. Right or wrong, once you have done a certain amount of this type of work, processes become intuitive and you can take some short cuts. You know when you have reached that point, because the short cuts quit biting you in the butt! I have yet to meet the man that doesn't, from time to time, get bit.
 
This might sound a little funny, but George and I have talked about it quite a bit, and I know that no offence will be taken. George and I know who the master rolling stock builders are and how high the bar is. We both aspire to play in that league someday. Moosey is well on his way. This car is good. Damned good. Stand by for some revelations on his next two or three.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jan 26th, 2009, 7:22pm

 
   George,
 
   I'm plain knocked over by your workmanship. You incorporate so many neat building designs in you cabooses. Thanks so much for shareing with us here that are truely interested.
 
  Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 27th, 2009, 7:20pm
hi all,
 
bruce & pockets:  thanks for your encouragement!   without your friendship, i'm not sure where i'd be on my live steam journey.  
 
to all:  work continued today on some of the roof details.  it's the section i want to finish first so i can stamp "done" on it!  to that end, i've spent the last two days cutting out and shaping the roof-walk saddles.  placed a scale 18 inches apart, there are a bunch of them.   here's how i did the layout for installation.
 
first, i had to find  the centerline of the roof at both the 'a' end and the 'b' end.  with that done, i then find the center of the saddles, that in turn tells me where the starting edge is.
 

 

 
when the starting edge was found, i had to determine the placement of the saddles inboard of the platform end and the cupola.  this part is partially from the ic's practice and from human ergonomics.  a military 'step' is @ 30 inches, so a 'nervous' step atop a moving railcar is 15 to 18 inches.  roughly half of a 'military' step, or in the range of 2/3 of a casual step (24 inches).  the idea is that where the foot would fall naturally, there'd be support.  it doesn't always work out that way, but there's plenty of strength in the lumber to do the job...over a period of years, sometimes many, many years.  in this case, 18 scale inches follows ic practice and fit my particular situation.  the photo below shows the transfer of the saddle centers to the edge line.
 

 
with that done, i was ready to start installing the saddles.  to aid in squaring the saddles in place, small triangle square and straight stock was used to true the saddles.
 

 
enjoy!
 
moose
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 27th, 2009, 7:31pm
hi all,
 
after getting the layout done, here's how it looks at install, not too bad!
 

 
here's how it looks when completed.
 
 

 
the last thing that got done today was 'roofing' the cupola side pieces.  more later!
 

 
moose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jan 29th, 2009, 8:23pm
hi all,
 
the last 2 days have seen some additional work done on the roof section.  in a prior post, i showed the installation of the saddles for the roof walk.  before the actual walk can be installed, the rest of the roof needs to be brought to a higher level of completion.  yesterday, some of the cupola trim was installed and most of the cupola windows modified to final configuration.  today, the cupola roof was added, trued for square, and prepped for the 'tar-paper'.
 

 
while the roof installation has been covered in earlier posts, i take a moment a review the method i use.  for this particular caboose, i'm not necessarily using scale lumber.  in this case, i'm using 1/4x3/4 'sticks'.  the only difference is that they were cut with a 1/2 degree bevel on the long sides.  why the bevel?  a round roof is for all practical purposes, a barrel.  barrel staves are made so that when they are assembled, they form a tight-fitting seal that utilizes the entire thickness of the stave, not just one edge.  a good looking round roof is done the same way.  a good cooper can tell you the exact number of staves of the same dimensions it would take to make a barrel of any given diameter.  i'm not a cooper, but i've met a few in my time and learned some of their tricks...not well, but learned no less.  for all the roofs i've built, i started at the sides and worked inward.  why?  because if there is any inaccuracy, i can put it in the middle where i can fool the eye of the beholder.  putting the 'difference' out towards the sides means putting it where it is weakest.  where someone will damage it.  putting it in the middle also means the surrounding 'lumber' and glue actually create a stronger joint.  now that i've mentioned it, did you see the filler pieces in the photo above?  if not, can you find them in the photo below?
 

 
if you spotted the filler pieces without prompting, you've got great eye-sight!  still some finish work needed on the windows, but that be happening soon.  here's a look at how it appears tonight.
 

 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Jan 29th, 2009, 9:44pm
Yeah, I spotted 'em, Moosey. In wooden boat building those are called stealers. Quite common in wineglass sterns.
 
Looking real nice. Won't be long before you can move on to the wire work.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: Jan 29th, 2009, 10:03pm
What a beautiful peace of craftsmanship.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 3rd, 2009, 7:32pm
hi all,
 
work's been kindda crazy, but the ic caboose has seen some changes...here's a teaser until i can post some more.
 

 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: Feb 3rd, 2009, 10:06pm
oh Moose thats mean, like waving a hotdog infront of the dog and then not letting him have it.  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 4th, 2009, 8:19pm
hi all,
 
there's more that's been happening with the ic caboose.  several assemblies are heading for final paint, more about them when the paint has cured enough to handle.
 
what i've wanted to show are the marker lights.  they're finally complete and need only paint to be finished.  instead of use grain-of-wheat or grain-of-rice lamps, the lanterns have been fitted with white led lights.  at 3 vdc, they'll last a long time on a 12 vdc battery.  in the not too distant future(next year), if ray will part with it for a time, i'll add additional internal lighting along with a brakeman with a hand-held lantern.  the white leds don't quite put out the same amount of light as the others, but are right for what the 1-to-1 lanterns did.  as soon as i build a test rig for power(where i don't have to hold two batteries in my hand), i'll post another picture showing them lit up.
 

 
 
the control setup for this will require some additional work, but i think it's worth it in the long run.
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Feb 5th, 2009, 6:58pm

 
   George,
 
   This thing is "OUTRAGEOUS". In a very positive way, of course. But, I'm gonna be afraid to get near it!!
 
   Beautiful, beautiful work.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 8th, 2009, 8:01pm
hi all,  
 
it's crunch time!  2 weeks before the show goes up!  so here's what's done as of today.  remember the lanterns?  they are now painted.  the top of lantern has been 'silvered' for added reflectance and the the 'wires' have been blacked.  the 'silvering' was done by carefully placing a small amount of chrome paint into the top of the lantern cavity with a 5cc syringe.  a lot of solar heat followed the insertion to set the paint.
 

 
the cupola under-structure is now permanently installed.  the flooring has been 'wrapped' in plastic to protect it while the work continues.  actually, it's there as a barrier while the rest of the furniture is glued into place.
 

 

 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 8th, 2009, 8:23pm
hi all,
 
bruce:  outrageous it may be , but there's more to come!  can't wait to see what you guys have in store for us...the bcrr has a quality about it that is....well, quality.  you just never know 'til ya get there!
 
to all:  the work continues a pace.  the roof walk was completed today.
 

 
now all that remains is to complete the wirework, windows, ladders and ladder landing pads.  in addition, i discovered a problem with the red valspar paint, it doesn't cover the green paint very well.  the roof fascia boards will need to be primed back to white so that the red will be red.  live and learn!  the valspar paint is a great quality paint, but it has a learning curve to how and when to use it.  after 6 coats (it goes on thin), there is a great deal of depth and beauty to it.
 
also done tonight, the cupola side walk structures are complete and awaiting priming.
 

 
okay, here's the shot that ray has been waiting for...!
 

 
more and more details will be completed each night for the next 2 weeks, keep your fingers crossed?!
 
enjoy,
 
moose  
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Feb 9th, 2009, 12:09am
George,  the level of craftsmanship is second to none.   That is  a beautiful piece of work.  2 more weeks and we will all get to see it in person.  I ca't wait .    RayIII
Posted by: Southern_PS4 Posted on: Feb 9th, 2009, 12:46am
George,
 
I finally finished reading this thread from the beginning.  I promised myself that I would not read the end first and it was worth it.
 
I worked for Disney for 30 years, 5 years at WED in California and the other 25 here at EPCOT and The Magic Kingdom and the north service area.  I have not seen better craftsmanship  or better model building anywhere.  The IC caboose is SUPERB!  I hope you will have it at Largo so that I can stand on my head to get a look at those roof support  ribs!
 
I promise not to drool on it!!!
 
Jerry H.
 
PS If I knew how to add smileys I would put the one with the big toothy grin in!
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 9th, 2009, 9:57pm
hi all,
 
ray:  i can't wait to see it finished too!  when the project is done, there's always the joy and satifaction of seeing the car rolling down the track under the control of someone that understands railroading, understands what it is to work from the ground up in the hobby, and loves sharing their knowledge with others.  as we spoke on the phone, we sometimes get harried into trying to complete a project, but this one...like the erie, is and continues to be a labor of love.   it has been nothing but pleasure to work on.
 
to all:  even when i relinquish the ic caboose to ray in the coming weeks, to the rest of the hobby, it will be finished.  to me, the process has only begun...there's always something else to be done to each of the cars that i build.  in time, each of my 'children' will return home and i will apply what i've learned to not only repair, but upgrade to my current standard.  that's part of my journey.  i can only hope that you take the spirit of what we're trying to accomplish here on railfan net and make it part of yourself.  those who post their construction projects on this live steam board know that it is much easier to post the completed work than the work-in-progress.  i love railroading, but like bruce t, bruce r, pockets, and some of the others, i'm finding that i'm a 'shop rat' to borrow bruce t's phrase.  the hands-on, process control, and creation of 'stuff' just suits me.
 
jerry h:  thank you for your kind comments, they're appreciated.  as good as i seem to be, there's always someone else whose journey has been a little longer and their skill sets a little deeper.  my grandfather used to tell me never pick up a tool and think you know how to use it until you know what can go wrong.  skill sets are more about learning from your mistakes than anything else.   believe me, i've made plenty and there's a lot more that i need to learn!
 
tonight, i was able to create 2 of 4 light socket keyhole covers.  more practical than prototypical, they clean up the exterior of the car.  on the erie caboose, i created these out of aircraft-grade spruce plywood.  for the ic caboose, i used modelers' sheet plastic.  it cuts with scissors and cleans up with a knife and file.
 

 
also started tonight, the remaining electrical wiring has been 'pulled' in and the lantern sockets are receiving a final fit-up before being installed.
 

 
 

 
 
that's all for tonight.
 
enjoy!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 14th, 2009, 9:29pm
hi all,
 
since i left off with the electrical system in the last post, i'll start with it in this post.  the last few days have been busy with home, work, and standing sentinal on health issues.  no worries mate...as my new aussie friends say.  that's not to say that nothing has been accomplished, it has.  to start, the electrical system is about 80% complete.  most of the solder connections have been made and tested.  wiring the charger to the battery and wiring the system to the control console remain to be done.  here are a couple of views of how they were done.  the shrink tubing is in place, but will not activated until the system is proved.  when that is done, the extra wiring will be 'mouse-eared' to make it neat.
 
 

 

 
in the photo below, the battery has temporarily been placed so that wiring and cushioning could be formalized.  in the next couple of days, the two terminals will be installed.  the battery box is large enough to handle a garden tractor battery or just about any size motorcycle battery.  with 3 vdc  60 milliamp load, battery use won't be a problem on overnight operations.
 

 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 14th, 2009, 9:59pm
hi all,
 
more of the little things got done today.  another piece of the furniture is now permanently afixed.  that will leave only the ice box and the table left to be finished and installed.  the photo below shows the last bunk being installed.  the installation isn't the floor, but to the wall(the plastic shopping bags shield the rest of the work from the glue).  i wanted an interior that would lift away with the main part of the body leaving the floor and undercarriage clear.  even the electrical system lifts away when the battery is disconnected.
 

 
the newest project from yesterday was the creation, installation, and painting of the door threshold.  the ic caboose being in the northern clime, the threshold was designed to shed snow (a fact i learned from pockets!).  so, here's what it looks like tonight.  the threshold slopes toward the front at almost 22 degrees from the point of the front of the door when it is closed.
 

 
 
the endsills also got some attention because they need to be semi-finished before the wirework can begin.  today, they got final fitting, priming, and a first coat of paint.  when the wirework is done, they'll be finished completely.
 
 

 
the lantern 'keyhole' sockets have be finished and tested!
 

 
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 14th, 2009, 10:15pm
hi all,
 
one of the last projects that got some attention today were the ladder landings.  after checking to see that i needed a '4' board landing, i cut them out.  after having primed and painted them, they were layed on the supports.  you can get really exact with the placement, but in this case, after installing the first and last in the position required of them, eyeballing was relatively easy.  the long roof walks were put in with 3/32 gap between the boards.  the landings are a loose 3/32 fit...not too bad for an old man, a pencil and a piece of paper.
 

 

 
stll some trim painting to do, but...the cupola side-boards were also installed today
 

 

 
here's where it stands tonight!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Feb 15th, 2009, 7:15am

 
   George,
 
   We have a few very special "new" tracks just waiting for the beautiful "new" caboose to rest on. I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of "oohs and ahhs" while folks are looking at it.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 15th, 2009, 8:37am
Bruce, I may be wrong, but I don't think Ray is gonna let that thing rest too much! Ol' Moosey does nice work, doesn't he?
 
Greg B.
Posted by: tomc Posted on: Feb 15th, 2009, 1:11pm
Moosey,
 
You are outdoing yourself on this one.  Sure is fun watching your new picks unfold before my eyes and see what you are crafting.  Someday the SR&CL Ry will have an 8 wheel caboose and I hope it matches you craftmanship.
 
Tom C.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 15th, 2009, 8:46pm
hi all,
 
to all:  thank you for your kind comments.  my work is progressing because i've got to meet the learning curve that i've set for myself...there's also a helluva ic mikado that i don't want to disappoint!  
 
tom:  from the work that i've seen done up there, i've still got a ways to go to equal it.  tip-o-the-hat to jack, mel, and the rest of that crazy bunch up there!  they're work is no less astounding...a railroad that helps pay for itself without a donation box or even a committee to govern how to spend it.
 
 
today, the first thing to get some attention were the journel box lids.  they got primed, painted, and later, installed.  not a hard project, but needed to be done.
 
 

 
next up was to finish prototyping the side-doors.  for this railcar, i wanted doors that were closer to what the 1-to-1 scale had.  that meant that i couldn't use my 'normal' technique of using 1/2 in built-up doors.  for this project, they couldn't be more than a 1/4 inch thick.  in all, there are 15 separate pieces of wood in just one door alone.  the door was made with a piece of 1/8 inch aircraft plywood sandwiched between 1/16 inch poplar stripwood.  still some more detail to be added before installation.
 

 
it really does change how the car looks.
 

 

 
only the two end doors to go!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 15th, 2009, 9:16pm
hi all,
 
the last thing happening tonight was prototyping the stepunits.  for this decision, i had to refer back to the old photos.  for durability, they should be made from brass or steel, but the photos show wood steps and risers.  so...wood it is.  the use of scale lumber for the stepunit sides would make them too fragile, but the use of 1/4 inch material gives the look with a little more of a chance of surviving.  it also gives me a chance to install some detail that has been left off, something i found on a ic caboose in wisconsin.  more about that later, for now, here's how i layed out the job.
 
when the data from the historical record, applied ergonomics, and the 'art' of the steps were worked out, a pattern emerged.  the photo below shows the journey, not the end product.
 

 
when some of the mechanical issues were worked out, a new pattern emerged.  from this pattern, the stepunit will take shape.
 

 
with the pattern now finialized, the stepunits were layed out for cutting.
 

 

 
and how it looks against the car.
 

 
still needs some final shaping from a drum sander, but it's gettin' closer.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 15th, 2009, 10:21pm
George,
I've had some sucess with semi-fragile assemblies like these steps. As you are aware, for something to break, it has to move, twist or bend. Since you are locked into the material (wood) the object of the exercise would be to optimize the rigidity of the material. There is no elixir that will turn this into cast iron. It's a matter of degree. Two methods that have worked for me are: 1. Saturate the assembly components with ACC, before assembly.
  2. coat all surfaces with a penetrating (laminating) type of epoxy resin. Again, before assembly but after final shaping.
 
Just my inflation fed $0.02,
Greg B.
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: Feb 16th, 2009, 5:50pm
Moose,
These steps might be a good candidate for a lost-foam casting.
1. Build steps out of 1/4" styrofoam.
2. Glue together pieces, adding ingates.
3. Encase in ceramic wash.
4. Put in bucket and fill with loose sand.
5. Pour in molten aluminum.
Dan
 
(On edit) I re-read your post, and you say the original had wooden steps, so maybe this isn't a good plan...
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: Mar 2nd, 2009, 12:00pm
George, it was great seeing you again at the un-meet. The photographs posted here do not do the caboose justice. That is one fine model and a true reflection of your craftsmanship. (but who knew that my 1.5" scale alter ego was such a vandal?) I see Bruce has posted a photo of it in the unmeet thread.  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 7:44pm
hi all,
 
i've finally come up for air!   it's been a long hard haul on my latest project, rebuilding the 'library' for swmbo.  
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 9th, 2009, 7:08pm
hi all,
 
i'm almost ready for the tileman to finish the 'library'!  had the grand start up of my new 'open-top tanker' last night.  asked my daughter to do the honors of pushing the start button on the inside of the 'open-top tanker'...it was rich!  lets see, full 'tanker', empty plumbing lines to the pump, jets not quite aligned as they should have been, and SPLASH!!!  one wet daughter!  if only i'd used the camera, but that would have given it away!
 
i'll be back to complete the ic caboose...shortly!  gotta be up 'nawth' by june!
 
moose  
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 26th, 2009, 7:49pm
hi all,
 
it's back to the shop today!  with the bathroom project at a point where the tile-man can do his stuff, it's back to what i love doing, building railcars.  the unmeet 09 came too quickly and passed too soon for me to complete the ic caboose.  to be able to make the deadline, i worked into the wee hours for the last couple of weeks prior to the meet.  having completed most of the wire-work in the last day or two before the meet, i almost didn't want to load the car into the truck for the trip down.  when i saw the platform rails installed, i thought "how in hh could i have done that!"  the answer was easy...i'd worked too many hours seeing the same thing over and over again.  what you say?  the handrail spacing wasn't right for the installation.  the photo below shows the 'a' leftside railing prior to my correcting it.  while others may not have mentioned it, it was an embarrassment for me.  it's also a good lesson to look at a project when your eyes and mind are in a clear state.  this was a case of the eyes have seen, but didn't see clearly.  
 

 
here's a photo of part of the solution.  still some other corrections to be made, but close.
 

 
some additional work was needed on fastening the body to the chassis...that's now done.
 

 
with repair work done, tomorrow begins the new work.
 
enjoy,  
 
moose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Apr 28th, 2009, 7:56pm
hi all,
 
work continues on bringing the ic cab up to spec.  the last day or two has been one of re-thinking the mount for the battery charger.  i discovered at the last moment in february that the new charger had a short in it.  the store with craftsman brand didn't want to replace a vehicle mounted charger because it had been discontinued.  sometimes you just can't win.  enter wallyworld with a decent small battery charger.   the photo below shows how i would have done it(and designed a mount for it).
 

 
...but it wouldn't work for the new charger.  so i had to come up with a new way to re-use the existing mount, be able to see the charger, and semi-hide a shape i hadn't planned on.  with aluminum angle in the scrap box, i was able to fit, bore, and counter-sink the new mount.
 

 

 
the photo above gives an idea of how it will fit together.   soon i'll be hunting down the velcro belt strips that will hold the charger in place.  with the quick-change connectors in place, ray'll be able to remove the charger and use it elsewhere if needed.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 2nd, 2009, 8:51pm
hi all,
 
the last couple of days have been spent developing a new ladder system for the ic cab.  most of the time, i attach the ladder to the handrailing for support.  on the erie cab, i attached the ladder to a fixed fascia beam across the front of the platform roof.  while it worked, it bothered me that the fascia beam had a 'massive' look to it compared to the erie photographs.   since the ic cab was and is another step closer to my goals in live steam, i've been thinking and re-thinking my approach and techniques for ladder attachments.  for the ic cab, the support beam for the ladder is behind the fascia board.  when the cab roof is lifted away, the fascia board goes with it.  that step alone, makes the caboose fascia look less 'massive'.  here's a picture showing the first attachment in place, showing how it works.  when  the roof is removed, the ladder hoops go with it, no great deal, but in this case, when the roof is re-installed, the ladder and hoops will look more like the prototype and less like the way that i've done it in the past.  more on this, later.
 

 

 
 
after some more work, here's the second attachment.
 

 
still some fit-up left to do, but getting close to where i want it.  i've also changed the way i make my handrails....pockets pointed out a detail that once the idea was applied, makes the handrails easier to make in jig and turn out as a finished unit.
 

 
i've got some more work to do, so i'll post more tomorrow!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 2nd, 2009, 9:16pm
Gonna be one sweet hack, Moosey. Clever brackets, up under the fascia.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 6th, 2009, 8:00pm
hi all,
 
pockets:  thanks for being at the other end of the phone...i really do enjoy the time we spend together.  nudge-nudge...now what else ya got done on flatcar!?
 
to all:  it's been busy in the shop this week.  doesn't seem like much, but the exterior wirework is almost done!  with installation and a little touch-up work done, the rest of the week will be spent getting the interior up to scratch.
 
here's how the ladderwork looks now.
 

 
and a look at the under-side.
 

 
the ladder hoop brackets were made out of annealed brass strip and formed around the hoop stock.  when a tight fit was achieved, the assembly was soldered together.  the hoops stay with the roof and ladders remain with the platforms.
 
the next small project is to create and mount the roof-walk support brackets.  this will be done using a technique i learned from pockets.  the fascia beams will be bored and wire glued into the bracket bore.  the head of the wire will be peened over and touch-up paint applied.
 

 
more later.
 
enjoy,  
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 6th, 2009, 8:16pm
You're more than welcome, George.  Not too much progress, the last couple of days. Broken vehicles and "honey-do" projects keep getting in the way!
 
....... about that bracket, in the second photo.....
 
Greg B.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: May 6th, 2009, 11:08pm

 
   Pretty nifty grab irons. And,,, I like the roof support struts too.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 8th, 2009, 7:50pm
hi all,
 
bruce, pockets, and others:  many thanks for your compliments on and off the list..they're appreciated.
 
to all:  work continues on some of the interior details when the exterior painted details cure.  ya can't cheat process.  so...a few of the dangling chores that have waited a while got done today.  both of the side-doors were re-installed with some of the hardware.  missing is a 'shooting-bolt'...a long metal rod that slips into catching hardware.  why the wooden bolts?  the shooting-bolt was sturdy enough, but the receiving hardware frequently pulled out to the wood under a shock-load.  
 

 
i also wanted to clean up around the door header.  having had to carve it out to route the wiring conduit to the control console.  
 

 
i'll be blending it in better...shortly!  the exterior also got a little bit of work, i was able to mount the side-door handles.  the interior and exterior handles match positions so i borrowed pockets' technique again by boring through the door and glued copper wire as my mounting hardware for both.  once installed, the wire ends were peened over, smoothing out the look.
 

 
last, but none the less, least, i couldn't resist working on a little gift for ray h the cab's new owner.
 

 
anybody know what it's for...let'em have a good try pockets!
 
that's all for tonight...
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: May 8th, 2009, 9:13pm
George the caboose is looking fantastic!!!!
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 8th, 2009, 9:18pm
.....don't forget the mounting hardware.....
 
If the IC was as tight with a penny as the Poor Mary, that would have been a plywood or sheetmetal fabrication, on a hack this new.....
 
Ray'll know what it is.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: tomc Posted on: May 8th, 2009, 11:58pm
a drill bit holder or Fuze.  Ray can have a choice!
 
Tom C.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: May 9th, 2009, 9:17am
fusee or flag?   Most of the cabs were gone by the time I started.  I only got to ride  in a cab 1 time ,on a local job for about 30 miles, as I am usually on the other end of the train.  It was a very neat experience.  Ray III  
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 9th, 2009, 9:57pm
hi all,
 
it's been busy in the shop today!  the doors have been the main focus.  i needed to do them with different materials and techniques from what i usually do.  normally, my doors are about 1/2" in thickness.  the ic cab doors just couldn't be that thick!  this project has been part of my learning curve to producing equipment closer to scale than i've ever done.  producing a door to 3/16" has been a goal of mine for some time...i'm getting closer,  the doors on the ic cab will be about 0.232" or roughly just under 1/4".   as pockets and i have talked, producing strip-wood without the requiste small fine saws is really a matter of luck.  first, your saw (table saw) can't have any slop in the blade arbor.  second, a thin fine-tooth blade must be found (plywood blade isn't fine enough).  and third, the saw blade insert (saw pit insert) must allow the blade to move unimpeded, but not allow the strip-wood to slip into the saw pit.  in short, it's tough to make your own with homeowner type tools.  for the time being, i'll use what i have until i can go peruse the horrible freight depot for smaller precision saws.
 
here's the structure of the first ic cab door.  think of the door as a layer cake, with the core being the middle layer.  i built a jig to hold the door pieces in registration while the glue set.  the core is the thickness of the glass (plastic) that i'm using.  there in lies a tale of searching for thin glass...almost unabtainium.  you can get pyrex ware and science ware, but very few pieces of flat glass ware.  yes, you could use microscope slides, but the door inserts are larger than the slides that were available.  so, it's back to the thinnest plastic i could find.
 
in the photo below, the core section is made up of 7 seperate pieces of wood.  the top of the core-wood section was very fragile, so, 2 of the exterior door rails were glued into place almost immediately.  
 

 
here's a view of the other side of the core.
 

 
in this view, the window section is now fully supported.
 

 
now its time to do some fill work (layer 2) so that the door looks like what the ic cabs had.  it's also time to take care of any fill work needed for finishing.
 

 
not being too fancy, the ic didn't put any money into raised-panel doors if they could get a flat-panel to work (plywood cores).  the photo below shows how it will appear in the door opening.  still needs layer 3 and its 'snowshoe' on the bottom stile.  it will take two long days to start and finish each door using this method, but i feel that it is worth it.
 

 
...and i still have the 3rd layer to install on the interior side?!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 10th, 2009, 7:30am
Moosey,
Try a picture framing shop, for glass. I have seen non-glare glass down to 1/16". Use it as the entire core and build your (pre-painted) rails and stiles right on top of it. You now have your 3/16" door.
 
OR: If the door must be drilled, for latches and hinges, groove your outside rails and bottom stile, just like a raised panel door, to accept the glass and proceed as above. The outside rails and bottom stile could also be built as a 3pc laminate, to creat the groove (rabbet?).
 
Using glass for the entire core also minimises the concerns about warpage.
 
Just another $0.02 worth,
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 12th, 2009, 6:27pm
hi all,
 
pockets:  that's a wonderful idea!  it will be tested on another car in the not too distant future.  keep'em comin'!
 
to all:  tonight, i wanted to show the progress on the door.  you saw the 'a' side, now here's the 'b' side.  this side will be taken to a semi-unfinished state because i have to install the glass before it is completely done.  that means hand painting the unfinished portions...no problem.
 

 
how the 'a' and 'b' sides should appear once the glass has been inset.
 

 
and the fusee cabinet?  here's another look at it tonight.  still needs burnishing and some more paint, but its coming along.
 

 
one last pic for tonight...here's how the platform wirework looks now.
 

 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 12th, 2009, 6:45pm
Moosey,
NO railroad, in the upper mid-west, ever had anything that pretty for more than a week. Ol' Ray's gonna have to submerge that hack in a muddy creek, for about a week, let it bake in the August sun for awhile then let a couple of Thunderstorms streak it. After that, he can clear coat it and it should be about right!  
 
Nice work, George.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: May 12th, 2009, 9:30pm
Simply beautiful.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: May 13th, 2009, 4:42am
Greg you are right, but this one is gonna stay clean.   Bobby I 2nd your comments.  RayIII
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: May 13th, 2009, 11:10pm
on May 8th, 2009, 7:50pm, moose_the_caboose wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
anybody know what it's for...let'em have a good try pockets!
 

 
I know I'm getting in on this late, but besides fusees, I think this rack would also contain torpedoes, the little red squares with two lead tabs.  Fusees on the top rack and torpedoes on the bottom shelf.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 14th, 2009, 6:13pm
hi all,
 
dan:  i believe the others knew it or know it, but you said it!  you win your very own "Moooooose" Award!!!  present this award to your local adult beverage watering hole and receive your free drink.  make sure you read and understand the fine print...there is a service charge for shipping, handling, and delivery.   it also works for non-adult beverages.  hmmm, kindda like you don't really need the award, but take it with you anyway, ya just never know what it will lead to?!
 

 
on May 13th, 2009, 11:10pm, Dan Watson wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I know I'm getting in on this late, but besides fusees, I think this rack would also contain torpedoes, the little red squares with two lead tabs.  Fusees on the top rack and torpedoes on the bottom shelf.

 
to all:  not much to show tonight, the day was spent re-sawing lumber into dust and splinters for the remaining doors.  more tomorrow!
 
moose
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: May 14th, 2009, 9:53pm
Hey Moose, is that your 3 3/4" railroad logo?
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: May 14th, 2009, 11:03pm
Moose,
Thanks for the award!  I'll have to spend it soon
 
I cheated, because I had the chance to go on an IC caboose in Hammond, LA back in the late 1960s.  I believe it had a rack similar to that with fusees and torpedoes.  I remember hearing the story that the some of the old hands were going to play a trick on the new agent and put about 40 torpedoes on the track right by the station.  They alerted the train crew to their plan.  When the agent went out to hand up orders, the torpedoes started exploding under the wheels!  Scared him out of his skin!
 
Oh, well, great job on the caboose and attention to details rarely if ever seen!
Dan
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 17th, 2009, 8:13pm
hi all,
 
its been busy in the shop over the last few days.  building details is sure a lot of fun, sloooow in the doing!  tonight, all three doors are built, have their hanging hardware in place and awaiting paint.  the least detailed door (to the head) consists of 20 individual pieces of wood.  not hard to do, just time consuming.  the door core started out as shown below.
 

 
then progressed to what you see now.
 

 
finally, well for tonight...here's how it appears after being temprorarily installed.
 

 
as you can see, it still needs priming, sanding, and top coat.  only one more major job left and that's building the battery box cover doors.  there are a couple of more things i want to do before it leaves, but next saturday, crating begins.
 
enjoy,  
 
moose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 17th, 2009, 9:25pm
!!!OMG, George!!! Where did you get the draughtsman's whale!? I've been looking for some of those, for most of 20 years. You do know what they are used for, don't you? Heheheh.....
 
BTW, nice job on the door
 
Greg B.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 20th, 2009, 9:34pm
hi all,
 
pockets:  the 'whales' were given as a donation to the lead weight fund.  i needed lead to melt down for ballast...i kept these.  used to use them on my drafting table, they're better than tape!  still trying to scarf 4 more of them from a friend.  i'll let you know how it turns out!
 
to all:  the constant rains from a subtropical low that has parked itself over us has slowed progress.  my favorite glue and paints won't set in this very high humidity, but progress is being made.
 
the heater shielding is now up...
 

 
and the battery box has received some attention.  had to make a change in how the box was accessed.  one hinged door became two.
 

 

 
here's one of the finishing details that doubles as a door handle.  it's still a work-in-progress, but you get the idea.
 

 
more later, enjoy for now.
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 23rd, 2009, 9:03pm
hi all,
 
it's been busy in the shop over the last few days...times' fast approaching when the cab will be on a truck heading for its new home!  so what's left to be done?  the punch list is long, but each task is small.  the biggest task ahead is crating.  i'll be doing that beginning on monday.  for now, the last major task is completing the 2 main doors.  just 5 pieces of wood and a little paint to complete them.  the rest of the punch list is just paint-touchup and final detain installation(the library walls and the flare racks).
 
since i left off on the last post with the battery compartment doors, here they are completed.  stamp DONE
on them!  
 

 
next up, the ice box got its lid.   instead of being hinged, this one has a plug door.  why waste a set of hinges on a cabin car?!
 

 
i've been working on the 'library' facilities and the lockers.  here's how they turned out.
 

 
...and some day if ray lets me near the cab, i'll install the other fixtures in the reading room.
 

 
more in a few minutes...there's ice cream near!
 
enjoy,
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 23rd, 2009, 9:15pm
hi all,
 
i almost forgot to include a pic of the icebox in place.
 

 
a view towards the 'a' end as clean-up continues.
 

 
and some of the exterior details are now on.
 

 

 
more tomorrow, enjoy!
 
moose
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: May 23rd, 2009, 9:59pm
George , you have certainly out-done yourself.   This  Illinois Central caboose is ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!!!   I will be proud to have this on the rear of my train.  Thank you    Ray III
Posted by: pockets Posted on: May 24th, 2009, 7:30am
Beautiful, George. Simply beautiful.
 
Congratulations, Ray.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: May 24th, 2009, 5:33pm
Wow, I mean just wow..... I am speechless. George, words just seem to fail at describing how impressed I am with you most recent creation.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 24th, 2009, 9:30pm
hi all,
 
many thanks for the compliments, but you guys are the wind that fills my sails.   errr, that didn't come out right, but i think y'all understand.  i'm thankful to ray for allowing me to go further than i've been and for giving me freedom to do what i wanted to do.  there are some true craftsmen out there that don't toot their horns.  their work speaks of volumes.  my work compared to theirs is simple and crude, but they didn't get there overnight...nor will i.  it's my journey to take, they've alright done it.  many thanks to pockets, bruce, and all the other denizons that check in and give encouragement to keep improving.
 
so, here's so more pics on the NOW FINISHED ILLINOIS CENTRAL CABOOSE!
the first pic is taken facing the 'a' end of the flare rack.
 

 
btw, pockets....i didn't forget to touchup the hinges!  the photo above was taken before touchup occured.  the next pic shows the 'a' end door and 'library' door...with curtains just visible.
 

 
and here's the window with curtains.
 

   
here's the 'b' end door.
 

 
you're looking back towards the stove pad.  and yes, the curtains are up, but won't be installed by the stove.  ya think!
 

 
the curtains were hand-made by a new friend from canada.  wendy, her mother and her daughter spent a lot of spare time and effort on rays' behalf.  wendy, from all of us here on railfan...thank you!  they look spectacular!
 
enjoy!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 24th, 2009, 10:08pm
hi all,
 
crating to begin tomorrow!  ray, i'll call with instructions...be talkin' to ya soon!
 
okay, now's the time to see how i did...
 
here's the photo i worked from.
 

 
and here's my take on it...not exact, but close...
 

 
...and finally, the car that i wanted to honor because it was built by rays' late friend.  i'm let ray explain.  hopefully, we'll get pictures of the two cars together during their june meet away up nawth!
 

 
whatcha think?!
 
enjoy...its finally pevo time!
 
moose-the-tired-the-very-tired!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 28th, 2009, 12:07am
hi all,
 
tonight, the ic caboose is loaded up for trucking!  here's how the crating process went.
 
the first step is measuring the car for a base tray.  with tray at its very basic stage...measure, measure, measure, and after that, measure again!  ya don't want to find that the tray is a tab bit too small once the car has been transferred to it.
 

 
in my case, i have another pair of the same trucks to test with, just had to know the center-to-center distance of the bolster pins.  you'll also notice that i'm using counter-tension instead of bolts to hold things down.  for what i'm doing, it works just fine.  if i were to try this with heavier vehicles (engines or cars), i might think differently.  be still the horror of the thought, nothing could spare the car if a 2 ton towmotor careened into it or heaven-forbid...speared it.   having scared ray to death, i think he's going to be pleased with the car once it is safely in his possession.
 

 
as night descended, the case reached completion with the addition of the bottom skids.
 

 
with the car safely in place, my son begins the process of making sure anything that could move...didn't.
 

 
with the lid securely screwed on, it's finally loaded for the trip to the freight terminal tomorrow morning!
 

 
ray, enjoy the car and keep sharing with others.   be sure and let swmbo have her way installing the rest of the curtains and picking out what color to make the bunk cushions!  thank you for letting me do something for a dear friend of whom i can say that patience is a virtue.   lastly, we want to see a LOT OF PICTURES FOR THE JUNE MEET!  i wish i could be there myself when you unpack this beasty...make sure to take pictures of that too!
 
with the ic caboose about to be on its way, what's next?  well, there's the library to finish, a bobber caboose to install lamps in, a service wagon for the clamped lake, an erie caboose to repair, another bobber to build, and an sal cab for me.  yep, that'll keep me busy?!
 
good night all.
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: May 28th, 2009, 10:37pm

 
   GOOD NIGHT NURSE !!!!!!!! That thing is BEAUTIFUL.
 
   George, your attention to detail goes way over the edge. Thaks so much for shareing this build with all of us.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: May 31st, 2009, 6:36pm
Someone on the Chaski Live Steam board pointed me at this thread a few weeks ago. I've read it a couple of times from start to finish. There is a lot of good information. Moose - thanks for taking the time to give the blow-by-blow description of your efforts.
 
My project is Central Pacific drovers caboose #51 from 1872 in 1-1/2" scale. I scored and cut out the sides several years ago before other priorities took over. I'm currently working of a set of passenger car style trucks to go under it. The caboose trucks were the same design, but when used in a caboose, they had a shorter wheel base. Since most of the castings aren't available and I'm too cheap to buy those that are, I'm having to make my own patterns to cast my own parts.
 
A couple of thoughts - Following Moose's suggestion of doll house windows, I found a clearance on them on Ebay and bought a bunch for a bit over $1.00 each for the non-opening variety. The design of the non-opening window is actually fairly accurate for most caboose and passenger car applications as the prototypes typically had a single sash which dropped into the wall below the window frame to open.  
 
For applications where they are the right size, they make quick, good looking windows that take a a lot less work than fabrication. Unfortunately, they are on the narrow side for many caboose and most passenger car windows. They are also a bit too tall, but that's easily fixed. I've thought about taking two windows to make one wider window or milling some stock and patching it into the top and bottom of the frame, similar to what Moose showed when he modify the width, but that may take more work than building a complete window.
 
I like the idea of 1" X 2" tubing for the spine on cabooses and cars. Is 16 gauge wall thick enough?
 
Moose - could you post a few more photos of your set up for scribing the siding? The siding I've done so far was with a straight edge and Dremal with a router base and flame tip. That was way too much work.
 
I like birch plywood for car sides. It has a fairly straight, tight grain, with no plugs. It's also a bit harder than pine. You have to pick a sheet where the grain is parallel to the length. To get a piece longer than 4' with vertical grain, I cut grooves in the adjacent pieces and us a spline to join them. The joint falls on a seam between two "boards."
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: May 31st, 2009, 9:21pm
hi all,
 
dick: great to have you here!  i just posted some ideas/information in the meet & greet thread for you, but i'll repeat them here.
 
dick said:
My project is Central Pacific drovers caboose #51 from 1872 in 1-1/2" scale. I scored and cut out the sides several years ago before other priorities took over. I'm currently working of a set of passenger car style trucks to go under it. The caboose trucks were the same design, but when used in a caboose, they had a shorter wheel base. Since most of the castings aren't available and I'm too cheap to buy those that are, I'm having to make my own patterns to cast my own parts.  
 
 
about the cp caboose project:  start with your engine and the resource photos/drawings available.  most people build their cars to more modern specs.  when the cars are coupled to the cp 173, they dwarf it.  for the day and time, cp 173 was a mainline loco.  no matter the track guage, the cars were MUCH narrower for the time-period.  while you may be inclined to say that it's too late to reconsider,  measure your loco at the widest section, then look at how wide you are going to build your car(s).  a 7 to 8 foot wide car wasn't uncommon for the time.  prototype practice really helps.  in a thread on another network, a photo showed up of a couple of reefers behind a flatcar...the flatcar was wider.  why?  the reefers were run within a system.  when the narrow gauge line was shuttered, they were moved to standard gauge, only the trucks would have been changed for the most part.  a box is a box.  only when the railroads needed to haul more freight did the cars get larger.  the shift to standardized widths came from the passenger side of things.
 
while this jig has been posted before, it bares repeating...it's dead simple to build and works beautifully!  with patience, you can turn out enough grooved plywood to build the average railcar in about 1 1/2 hours time.  i budget a new plywood blade for every project.  by the time you are done cutting the grooves, so is the blade.  running a blade shallow doesn't give it time to cool.  i won't call my siding 'scale', but an artistic eye will tell you the spacing the looks right.  for my 1.5" work, cutting on .375" (3/ centers gives the look i'm after.  since you've talked about using birch, voids are less of a problem for you, but careful choice of siding materials will keep you from doing it twice...or three times...maybe four?!
 
 

 

 

 
more...a little later, starting an early shift tomorrow.
 
glad your here!
 
moose
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Jun 1st, 2009, 12:06am
Moose -
 
Thanks for the welcome and the additional photos of your jig. Berne Ketchum has made some nice passenger cars that he described on the Chaski board and in Home Railway Journal. He uses a radial arm saw for his grooves - but that's a tool I don't have.  
 
Berne modified a fine tooth plywood blade to give a V tip. I don't know if he has a proper sharpener or he does if off-hand.  That may be something to try some day, but for now I have a thin kerf carbide finishing blade that's only about 1/16" wide.
 
How do you do control the groove-to-groove spacing? I'm thinking about a detent that would take the location from a previous slot so I don't have to measure each slot against a tape measure. The boards on the prototype would have been just a touch wider or narrower than the nominal size due to the set-up of the saw mill and any shrinkage between the saw mill and when a board was installed. If it's good enough for the prototype, a slightly over or under-spaced goove should be good enough for the model.
 
For my caboose, I'm fortunate in having a dimensioned drawing. It was drawn in 1938, long after the caboose was gone, but comes from a source that should be accurate. The prototype is 9'4" wide from side-to-side (which scales to 14") with just a bit more for the eaves. That's the same width as the locomotive and tender.
 
For those interested in the Central Pacific or Southern Pacific,  there is an excellent book on cabooses. Southern Pacific Freight Cars Volume 2: Cabooses, by Anthony W. Thompson, published in 2008  I got a copy through an inter-library loan and it has a lot of good information including some drawings, lots of photos, and rosters of CP and SP cabooses. The author has also written similar books on other SP rolling stock.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 1st, 2009, 6:43pm
hi all,
 
dick:  i'm glad to hear that you have your refences and a plan to start from!
to answer some of your remaining questions:
 
i used a circular saw because i had it...it's was a matter of dancing with who ya brung!  the truth of the matter is, the time period both of us like had numerous choices for construction.   most people want to believe that car siding was all tongue-n-groove.  a lot was, but ship-lap or rabbit-lap was equally popular (which is why groove the way i do it is mostly correct...why do i say mostly correct?  because the saw kerf is out of scale.), not to be forgotten, the batten-strip method.
 
on Jun 1st, 2009, 12:06am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Berne modified a fine tooth plywood blade to give a V tip. I don't know if he has a proper sharpener or he does if off-hand.  That may be something to try some day, but for now I have a thin kerf carbide finishing blade that's only about 1/16" wide.

 
the photo below is showing the indexing point on the jig.  i can vary that point with the scale of the project.  my background in scenery building and dealing with scenic designers allows me to use my 'eye' sense, something i won't necessarily be able to do machining locomotive parts.  i fully agree with you on the siding, i'm passed the point where i want uniform consistancy.  i want the 'lived', 'lived on' and 'rehabbed because they tore it up' look.  what am i saying?  the further away a car shop was from a metropolitan center, more likely they got their woodstock from a 'thick-n-thin' lumber mill.  lionel, i don't build and don't wish to start.  i'm not knocking those that want to work that way, it just isn't for me.  there are a couple of great builders out west that when they are finished, you can see the coffee stains on the conductors' desk.  that's where i hope my journey takes me.  i may build 3 or 4 more plywood-based cars (2 are already underway), but i will soon start building board-on-board.  the ic caboose project was a chance for me to stretch my wings a little by doing some interior work.
 

 
on Jun 1st, 2009, 12:06am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

How do you do control the groove-to-groove spacing? I'm thinking about a detent that would take the location from a previous slot so I don't have to measure each slot against a tape measure. The boards on the prototype would have been just a touch wider or narrower than the nominal size due to the set-up of the saw mill and any shrinkage between the saw mill and when a board was installed. If it's good enough for the prototype, a slightly over or under-spaced goove should be good enough for the model..

 
the photo below is from the penn state historic archives.  it aslo happens to illustrate what i was talking about by way of period equipment.  follow the roofline from the loco through the cars.  the hobby generally builds them a little taller and wider.  and mind you, the monitor roof(i think that's what it's called) is rarely done in our hobby.  the railroad isn't narrow guage, it's standard or even broad-gauge(5').  your visual cues are the people...cast them at an average of 5' 8" tall, not 6' that most people do.  then let your eye look at the overhang outside the railheads...that ain't 2 feet!  this is my pet peeve with the hobby, it's scale to a point...then?!  but it is also what's fun about the hobby, you can build anyway you want.
 

 
on Jun 1st, 2009, 12:06am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

For my caboose, I'm fortunate in having a dimensioned drawing. It was drawn in 1938, long after the caboose was gone, but comes from a source that should be accurate. The prototype is 9'4" wide from side-to-side (which scales to 14") with just a bit more for the eaves. That's the same width as the locomotive and tender...

 
btw, we do have an education thread, if you have a recommendation on a book, set of books, or want to post some of your personal drawings, please feel free.  also consider starting a build-thread for your caboose project, you'll be amazed at how many people want to know how to do it.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
 
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 1st, 2009, 7:00pm
hi all,
 
almost forgot!  an ic caboose update!  poor ray won't get to open his 'package' until tomorrow!   he's stuck overnight in another city, courtesy of his employer.
 
he's promised to take plenty of pictures...tomorrow!
 
moose
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 3:36pm
George, That Jig is great. I am already planning on duplicating it. It is simple yet extremely effective. Thank you very much for posting those photos.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jun 3rd, 2009, 5:06pm
George, I finally was able to go to the yellow freight dock and pick up the I.C. caboose.  It  made the trip with flying colors. You did a great job on the crate and  securing  the caboose.  George pictures can't do  this  work of art justice.   There is so much to take in,  the detail is simply amazing. I will post a few pics  soon, of it's arrival.  Thank you  Ray III
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Jun 6th, 2009, 4:50am
A wooden cabooses built in Alaska. It is outside braced and built by a good friend, Jerry Ware. He has adopted Alaska Central for his equipment, a railroad that was incorporated into the Alaska Railroad around 1915, but the prototype was a caboose used in the Lower 48 that he found in a magazine or book.
 
In front of it you can see a bit of Jerry's "cow car." Several hundred square nuts, I think #2, hold the boards on.
 
In the background is Jerry's tank car.
 
All have steel frames and the caboose steps are also steel. I think the only commercial parts on the three cars are the couplers and nuts and bolts. The  ends on the tank came from propane barbecue tanks.
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Jun 6th, 2009, 5:04am
An Alaskan caboose built by another friend, Wally Smith. The prototype was from a logging railroad, I think he said it was in British Columbia. The length was to allow the caboose and a given number of cars to fit on a siding on the railroad. A longer caboose would have allowed them to move one less load of logs for each trip. The sides were made from scored MDO (medium density overlay) board, plywood with a waterproof paper facing that is used for hiway signs. The caboose in the background was built by Jim Posey. It has a detailed interior, including the pin up calender over the desk. I don't have a good photo of it.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jun 6th, 2009, 9:13am
Here are a few pics of the I.C. caboose on the Illinois end of it's trip. 1st pic is  of the crate at the frieght doc .
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jun 6th, 2009, 9:16am
next pic shows the crate with lid removed to make  sure nothing happened in transit.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jun 6th, 2009, 9:18am
pic shows crate in trailer for trip home.  It was raining all morning so I brought the trailer.
Posted by: SteamHeaton Posted on: Jun 6th, 2009, 9:23am
home safe in the garage.   Still in the crate , due to the 12" to the foot.  The caboose will be polishing the rails in decatur next weekend.   I will take lots of pics.  Ray III
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jun 21st, 2009, 7:22pm
hi all,
 
i've been whittlin' down my 'honey-do' list, but will be back in the shop soon.  for now, i wanted to show a couple of pictures that i didn't post and held in reserve as a surprize for ray.  happy belated birthday, ray!  this is why you didn't get your 2nd fusee rack...yet.
 

 

 

 
happy fathers' day to all.
 
moose
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Jun 22nd, 2009, 10:15pm

 
   George,
 
   I can't thank you enough for shareing this entire build with us. This interior is "Awesome".  
 
   See ya soon,
 
   Bruce
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Jul 17th, 2009, 1:18am
I was curious how caboose steps are attached. Since I had to go to Wasilla to dig a trench in the crawl space at a rental house (I'm getting too old for this), I stopped at the Museum of Alaska Transportation and Industry to look at a circa 1920 caboose with wooden body and steel frame and a few of the other items of rolling stock.
 
The caboose stairs are attached with six carriage bolts on each side. Rounded heads face the inside of the stairs. On one side they are fastened to the steel end sill, on the other to the body bolster. Does anyone know if this is the typical practice for attaching stairs on cabooses and passenger cars?
 
Some other details for those considering building a caboose:
 
This caboose is circa 1917 and build for the Alaska Railroad. I didn't make notes, but my recollection is that it was build by Seattle Car and Foundry. The steps are all wood. Stringers and treads are made from 1-1/2 thick material. I think the risers were the same, but didn't look closely. Stringers have rabbets for the treads and risers. (I was glad to see that, as I had already planned on using rabbets on mine.) The center sill is made from two 12" channels. Side sills are 8" channel. It looks like plates are riveted to the top and bottom of the center sill. The end sill is a piece of channel, open side facing the end of the car. Trucks are arch bar with leaf springs and are not swing trucks.
 
I forgot to measure look closely at the siding, but did look at a steel frame, wooden body box car the is preported to have come from the Copper River and Northwestern with a build date around 1915. The boards are about 5" wide, and are beaded with a bead down the center. Pretty upscale for a box car! Lots of work for a modeler. I wonder if there is a way to bead plywood without making two passes with a router? I suppse a specially sharpened saw blade might work.
 
The box looks like a neat one to model. It's about 40 feet, but has lumber doors at each end.
 
Next time I'll have to take a camera.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Jul 18th, 2009, 6:38pm
hi all,
 
dick:  a lot of things went on that are not exactly what the original manufacturer put in place.
 
on Jul 17th, 2009, 1:18am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I was curious how caboose steps are attached...I stopped at the Museum of Alaska Transportation and Industry to look at a circa 1920 caboose with wooden body and steel frame and a few of the other items of rolling stock.
 
The caboose stairs are attached with six carriage bolts on each side. Rounded heads face the inside of the stairs. On one side they are fastened to the steel end sill, on the other to the body bolster. Does anyone know if this is the typical practice for attaching stairs on cabooses and passenger cars?.

 
while not everybody did it that way, it would be a 'common' practice by the carbody carpenters.  anything that got the car back on the line and out of their shops.
 
below are a couple examples of what can be found among the cabeese.
 
 

 
 

 
 
on Jul 17th, 2009, 1:18am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

This caboose is circa 1917 and build for the Alaska Railroad. I didn't make notes, but my recollection is that it was build by Seattle Car and Foundry. The steps are all wood. Stringers and treads are made from 1-1/2 thick material. I think the risers were the same, but didn't look closely. Stringers have rabbets for the treads and risers.  
 
I forgot to measure look closely at the siding, but did look at a steel frame, wooden body box car the is preported to have come from the Copper River and Northwestern with a build date around 1915. The boards are about 5" wide, and are beaded with a bead down the center. Pretty upscale for a box car! Lots of work for a modeler. I wonder if there is a way to bead plywood without making two passes with a router? I suppse a specially sharpened saw blade might work.

 
about the step units, it may sound strange, but you can't think of the dimensions in normal 'inch' type increments.  in timber country, a rough sawn 1" board is known as '4 quarters' or 4x1/4" or 4/4.  you find most wooden steps to be either 5/4 or 6/4.  why, because they could be inletted to receive the individual steps or because the type of wood required it to be that thick for strength.  for your caboose, you may have to re-saw your lumber to get the right thickness.  
while we are on the subject of steps and step support,  i found some details that almost nobody in the hobby uses.  from my 'secret-stash-o-stuff' i'm going to show you...and only you...don't tell a soul!   it's our secret, okay?!
 

 

 
the step units above were created as replacements on an original cab.  the materials are different, but the design is original.  you see the threaded rods reinforcing the lower portion of the step unit?  most of the people building cabeese in the hobby over look this detail.  why?  your answer is a good as mine.  why did the railroads take them off?  they were a nuisance for the trainmen and a worthless bother for the carmen.
 

 
the image above may be a little blurry, but when you look under the endsill, you'll find evidence of the support rod being there.  when i checked the step unit itself, there's no hardware mounting patterns.  that tells me the step unit wasn't original to the car.  did the museum goof when they restored the car?  no, they restored it to its last working days.  
 
dick, if you are going to the trouble of creating a 'bead' look, why not go to the next step and actually create tongue-n-groove lumber?  the lumber could be created on one of horrible freight's mini-shapers.  where am i leading you off to?  do a board-on-board build-up...it's easy to do once you understand that you don't build the car sides in stand-up fashion.  you'll build them on a flatboard with the necessary trueing jigs to keep it square.  it's how model airplane wings are done.  yes, it will take a little more time, but think what you could do during 2 of your alaskan winter days!
 
hope this helps.
 
moose
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Jul 19th, 2009, 1:23am
Thanks for the photos and notes. Your secret is safe with me!
 
I guess using individual boards for the siding an option, but for the box car it would take twice as many boards as the prototype because each board has a bead in the middle as well as at the edge. A bead every 2-1/2 inches, or every 5/16 inch for a 1/8 scale model. Amost 200 boards per side. Yikes!
 
I have a router and table, so can probably make do without a shaper. I also have a planer I got to mill the wooden pieces of the truck frames, so I guess I could do it. I'll have to think about this.
 
I noticed that one of the steps on the ARR caboose had a 1/2" plywood spacer between the step and end sill. It obviously wasn't there when it was built. I didn't have time to look closely to see if it looked like they followed the original construction when repairs were done to the steps. The floor boards on one platform are pressure treated lumber. I believe this was done at the museum. A compromise, but it will probobaly last longer because of it.
 
I also noticed a pretty good ding in one of the body bolsters inboard of the truck. It must have received a good whack at some point and I have to wonder if there were other damages at the same time that were repaired.
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Aug 14th, 2009, 3:47pm
hi all,
 
it's been awhile since the ic caboose went to illinois.  ray is having a great time with (well, it and the ic mike)!  so i've been slowly working on the blue welder, trying to get the bathroom remodeled, and working on alex's bobber caboose.  
 
the bobber caboose needed some small repairs...which have been accomplished.  when the weather dries out, i'm finish the touch-up paint work.  over the last couple of weeks, i've been experimenting with how to put working l.e.d. marker lamps on the roof...not the corners.  a practice done by the dod that alex used to work for.  a while back, i started working on the lamp housings, but wasn't satisfied with the results.  i'm still working toward that end.  i'll have pictures to show, shortly.
 
for now, i'm also working toward cleaning the shop out in order to install some new equipment (new to me).  when that's done, i'll be able to do some work on the shay-like locomotive.  yeah!  as a side-bar, i'll be visiting the ten-wheeler group to get some hands-on knowledge and partake of the comraderie of that particular group.  i found that feeling at the bcrr and miss out when i can't be with them.  the updates we get from don and the group lets me know that they like the bcrr, know what it is about.  gonna be a great weekend.  
 
bcrr...watch out!  i'll be in your neck of the woods...shortly!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Sep 4th, 2009, 3:34pm
hi all,
 
yes, its been a while for this thread, but not much longer.  i've some additional repairs to make for the bobber caboose so it can go home.  shortly, i'll pick up the legacy erie and the eje for some minor repairs.  keep watchin'!
 
moose
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Dec 9th, 2009, 9:26pm
hi all,
 
my apologies for being missing-in-action...i've been here, watching and enjoying.  you've been my key to our 'shared' insanity!  'fess up time, my medics couldn't believe i didn't have a problem with the ole ticker, so they ran it up pass 105% full throttle...didn't miss a beat!  i've been put through medical hell, many of you know of what i speak...i can't wait to get back in the shop and put it all behind me!  after the holidays, this space will once again hum with activity.
 
so what have i sneaked into the shop and worked on lately?  well, the blue english welder now has a working motor controller and new air compressor.   the internal brass lamps are ready for the bobber caboose...
 
moose...about to be back on the loose!
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: Dec 9th, 2009, 9:32pm
GEORGE!!!! I am so happy to see you are well. You have been very missed.
Posted by: ErieAtlantic7597 Posted on: Dec 9th, 2009, 10:01pm

 
   George,
 
   This is really good news. As of our last phone talk, I knew about some of this but did'nt feel it was my place to elaborate on an open forum why you were AWOL.
 
   Sure do hope to see you soon.
 
   Bruce
Posted by: Steen_Rudberg Posted on: Dec 12th, 2009, 1:55pm
Hi George
 
Nice to here that you are back. I have been missing your sharp pen  
 
Take care
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Dec 16th, 2009, 3:35am
Life got in the way for most of the summer, but I've finally had some time to spend on rail projects. In the photo I'm starting to fit the parts together for my eighth scale, 7 foot wheelbase passenger car truck. The only parts shown that didn't come to me as raw material are the bolts and nuts. I'll be using the same parts to build a pair of 6 foot wheelbase caboose trucks for a circa 1870 Central Pacific caboose. The prototype drawings are from "Railway Car Construction," William Voss, 1892 and reprinted by Newton Gregg as "Train Shed Cyclopedia," No. 39.  
 
Moose, sorry to hear that health issues sidelined you but glad to hear you are on the mend. I just reread this entire caboose thread as well as the other car building material you wrote in the Largo thread. I'm looking forward to your future efforts.
 
 
 
Posted by: tomc Posted on: Dec 16th, 2009, 8:28am
Dick,  is that white oak you are using?  Lookin good.
 
Tom C.
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: Dec 16th, 2009, 8:18pm
Dick that is looking really good. What ratio did you use to enlarge the drawing?
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Dec 17th, 2009, 12:04am
White oak. That's what the orange hardware store had. I'll be sure and seal it well.
 
I think it was 253% on this drawing, 157% on one of various metal parts. I got close and then played with it some to get as close to 1/8 as I could. It's a whole lot easier when you can just measure the drawing.
Posted by: Dan Watson Posted on: Dec 17th, 2009, 9:55pm
Dick,
I went through the same drill on drawings for my mikado project.  Went to the blueprint shop, had them enlarge the drawing 201%, not quite right.  Next try, 203%, a little better.  Third try......   They were very accommodating!  
Posted by: ConrailRed9504 Posted on: Dec 26th, 2009, 12:57pm
George,
    You out did yourself once again. That caboos looks great!
Russell
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Dec 28th, 2009, 9:40pm
A correction to the post above, red oak was what the box store had.
 
I'm plugging away on wooden parts. All are planed to thickness and width and cut to length. There are 13 wooden parts per truck and ten of them have mortises and/or tenons.  For six trucks that's 68 pieces.  
 
Making the first cut on the side beam (side frame.) A fence is on the right and a stop is almost invisable on the far side of the blade.
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Dec 28th, 2009, 9:50pm
Another cut on a side beam. There are five cuts for the tenons and step on each end and four mortises in the sides.
Posted by: BobbyT Posted on: Jan 20th, 2010, 10:05pm
Hey George, I came across this link to the Sandy River & Rangley lakes museum project restoration page: http://www.srrl-rr.org/Projects/Projects.htm
 
There are some great caboose interior shots as well as some passenger cars stripped down to frame work. Great details to behold!
Posted by: moose_the_caboose Posted on: Feb 12th, 2010, 7:42pm
hi all,
 
the dry spell is over, i'm back in the shop.  i've used my 'way-back' machine to pull a project forward so i can complete it.  alex watson's bobber caboose has been sitting on the build track in my shop for months and months due to my health issues.  well, with the winter meet fast approaching it's time he got it back once and for all.  now here are some views from the time machine.
 
from the very beginning...
 

 
to his first view of the 2 axle buggy...
 

 
and a picture from the 'family' album..
 

 
to alex's reaction to seeing it semi-finished...
 

 
i said semi-finished because it still needed windows and the external lanterns installed.  sometime back, i started several trials at creating them, but life got in the way.  in doing this type of thread, i made a promise to myself to show my work, warts and all.  my first attempts were okay for studies, but not what i wanted alex to have.  see the pics below...
 

 
so tonight, i'm posting a couple pictures of what was done in the shop this afternoon...better than before, but not quite finished.  with additional honing of my copper techniques and some imagination when applying details, i think alex will be happy to have waited.
 

 

 
the two photos above show one of the lantern housings just as it came off the brake.  i've still got some clean up work to do before the joints are soldered and i've got to refine the lens housing, but i think that the learning curve has re-started.  now, what direction am i going with it?  something a kin to the photo below.
 

 
btw, the windows were completed long ago...now it's time to get the lanterns done!  the actual lamps are complete, but i need to photograph them for you.
 
later!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 13th, 2010, 2:13pm
Not so much for Moosey, cause we've had this conversation: Please notice that even with the dings wnd wrinkles, how crisp and sharp the lines of the prototype are. One must use much thinner stock, and a correspondingly smaller bend radius, to achieve the same appearance in scale sizes.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Feb 13th, 2010, 4:06pm
My skills and tooling for bending sheet metal are limited. As an alternative, I used thicker stock and silver soldered a headlight box together. The box is 4" tall and made from 1/16" brass. Hobby shop brass "L" and #1 or #2 screws were used from the inside to hold the box together for silver soldering. When done, the ends of the screws were filed flush on the outside as were the ends of the side sheets which were left a few thousandths long to give a sharp edge after filing. Now that I have a stout box I will probably apply the raised panels with soft solder, although following Moose's drawing they could be machined from 1/8" or 3/16" material and riveted in place. Brass escutceon nails make nice tiny rivets, but even some I have with .100" heads are a bit big for this application in 1/8 scale.  
Posted by: Dick_Morris Posted on: Feb 13th, 2010, 4:19pm
A close up of the els and screws.
Posted by: pockets Posted on: Feb 13th, 2010, 6:58pm
Dick, I have one, in 3-3/4" scale, about half finished using your technique.
 
Tip: Shop the housewares department of the large chain stores for stainless steel bowls. They make great reflectors for this style lamp. Measuring spoons or cups may work for 1.5 / 1.6 scale.
 
Greg B.
Posted by: Steam290 Posted on: Mar 26th, 2010, 3:06pm
Hi Dick,
 
I was running through this thread and your passenger car truck construction caught my attention. I am in the initial phases of building some wood beam caboose trucks. I have attached a picture of my pedestal design. I have been using AutoCAD's 3d capabilities. Did you do your own design and have them cast? Same with the journal boxes? One of my next steps is to draw up a journal box.  
 
Did you cast any extra journal boxes? If you were willing and I could piggyback off your efforts, I'd appreciate not having to draw up a journal box and reinvent the wheel so to speak.  
 
Are you going to use roller bearings or a fluid film bearing in your boxes. I'd love to hear more on your design.
 
Thanks,
 
Dale
 
on Dec 16th, 2009, 3:35am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)