Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Nov 19th, 2017, 7:14pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Model Railroading
   Live Steam and Ride on Scales
(Moderators: moose_the_caboose, Brian Tusin)
   CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!  (Read 2971 times)
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20121222n-06_rescaled.jpg - 101671 Bytes
« Reply #60 on: Mar 13th, 2013, 1:09pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Hi there,
 
I've been quiet, but work on my project progresses. Fist pic shows the transom truss rods, truss rod blocks, truss rod washers, and equalizer spring seats. Since this pic was taken, I've finished the wheels to the proper profile using Tom Bee's profile.
 
Second pic is of the next set of castings. Finally received them. I think they lost my order twice. Machining of the castings is in process.
 
Also in the second pic is a leaf spring I have constructed. The metal leafs are silver soldered to the spring blocks. The spring blocks have an angled recess milled in them to accept the leafs. There are 4 leafs, two are spring steel and two are delrin. All are 0.050" thick by 0.50 wide. I wanted to go with the correct look, but even with only two spring planks, one of which is very short, the spring is quite stiff. I may have to try again. But I think I will go ahead and construct another spring like this one. The shackles have not been completely crimped. I was was waiting for my castings in case I need to make some changes.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20121222n-06_rescaled.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20121222n-06_rescaled.jpg - 101671 Bytes
« Reply #61 on: Mar 13th, 2013, 1:15pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

First photo. Didn't attach to previous post.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20121222n-06_rescaled.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20130302_truck_castings.jpg - 280626 Bytes
« Reply #62 on: Mar 13th, 2013, 1:16pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Casting and leaf spring photo.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20130302_truck_castings.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
BobbyT
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 628
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #63 on: Mar 13th, 2013, 7:09pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Dale,
 
Looking really good, I am glad to see your updates.
 
As for the springs; is this car going to carry full scale passengers? If so, then you might want to leave the springs stiff.  


Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #64 on: Mar 15th, 2013, 11:01am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

My initial thought was no on carrying passengers. However, the delrin leafs can be replaced spring steel to increase the load.

Logged
ncbqguy
TRAINing
View Profile  

Posts: 10
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #65 on: Mar 16th, 2013, 4:38pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Dale-
Truck is coming along nicely.  
We'll be starting to build the railroad in a few months as the house is nearing completion with an estimated move-in of mid-May.
Hopefully by the time I'm ready to get casting sets for a No.7 and a No.2 you'll have worked everything out!!!
Are you coming up to Eagle Point for the Spring Run?
Best regards,
Charlie Vlk


Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #66 on: Mar 22nd, 2013, 12:31pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Charlie,
 
I was planning on coming up to Eagle Point for the Spring Run. I scheduled another event, readying Iowa Interstate's QJ for service this year. But I may be able to move the QJ work to a different time. So I have to say maybe.
 
Dale


Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20130324n-01_rescaled_7_Truck_Project.jpg - 300852 Bytes
« Reply #67 on: Mar 26th, 2013, 7:00pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

A lot of progress has been made. I found that my casting shrinkage was quit a ways off on the equalizer. Since it was a long piece, I increased it 3.5%. It is too long by (don't remember right now), but over 0.100. I had to machine into the angle part to clear the journal box. Now that I have a number, I can compensate.
 
Anyway, here we have the equalizer, equalizer springs, swing hanger pivots, swing hanger, spring plank, and one leaf spring shown. I will have to do something different with those equalizer springs. Too much daylight in the coils. I also figure for heavier loads, one could put a smaller diameter spring inside. And make the smaller diameter spring not as tall.



Image exceeds Forum display limit of 300000 bytes. (300852 bytes, 1504x1000 pixels)


Click Here to View Image 20130324n-01_rescaled_7_Truck_Project.jpg - 300852 Bytes


Logged
BobbyT
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 628
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #68 on: Mar 26th, 2013, 7:08pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Dale, that is a sweet looking truck, nice work!


Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20130324n-07_rescaled_7_Truck_Project.jpg - 184013 Bytes
« Reply #69 on: Mar 26th, 2013, 7:22pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Here's the underside. And the wheels are turned. I agonized over that. I finally cut my own flange form bit with a cutoff wheel in my bench grinder. Then I smoothed the flange with a file as my bit wasn't perfect.


Image exceeds display size of 900 pixels wide. (184013 bytes, 1203x800 pixels)


Click Here to View Image 20130324n-07_rescaled_7_Truck_Project.jpg - 184013 Bytes


Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20130614-1_CBQ_7_truck_picture_652x367.jpg - 62548 Bytes
« Reply #70 on: Jun 15th, 2013, 9:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

An update from the shop.  
 
Getting close to speed trials. Here's the latest. Spring plank is done, bolster is done, and I finished the leaf springs. I did find that the angle "castings" that are bolted in the corners that I so diligently made by silver soldering a gusset in to an angle would not fit with the wheels. That's what we get with this not quite to 100% scale. I figure the track gauge pushes the wheels a little further out and then they interfered. I remade the angles.
 
I have to make the leaf spring caps that will bolt to the underside of the bolsters. That's the next step. Then I will need to figure out the plate on top of the bolster that would mate with the frame. I guess I am also going to make a frame out of 1x2 steel box and get a Tom Bee truck to mount on the other end. The frame might be the start of CB&Q 14006.  
 
An aside but apropos. I bought a dropros digital readout fro my Bridgeport series one mill. I have X, Y and Z axis installed and working. I love it already. I installed the x first and needed to make some modifications to the Y brackets; or maybe it was the Z. With the X already functional, it was much easier to do the modification.
 
On to pictures:


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20130614-1_CBQ_7_truck_picture_652x367.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20130602-1_method_of_crimping_leaf_springs_652x367.jpg - 62471 Bytes
« Reply #71 on: Jun 15th, 2013, 9:44pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Here is the setup that I used to crimp my leaf springs. Went and bought the Harbor Freight arbor press. Why don't we have GOOD stores around? I remember a hardware store in downtown Des Moines IA that had everything. They were a Starrett dealer. But then that was in the 70's. My closest hardware store doesn't even carry steel, aluminum, or brass stock. The big box stores have a better selection. And that's not saying much.
 
Off my soapbox.
 
So here's my crimp procedure. I should have been making more step by step posts. I will need to correct that. Even at this point, I will need to disassemble this truck and figure out how I did things. And draw that pedestal in AutoCAD again? That was way to many beers --- ahhh I mean years ago.
 
Back to crimping. the parallel clamps are holding the metal crimps from expanding sideways. The bar in  the middle provides support for so the bottom of the top leaf spring crimp bears against a solid object with the top of the bottom leaf spring crimp. the the open ends, top of the top and bottom of the bottom are mashed.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20130602-1_method_of_crimping_leaf_springs_652x367.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
moose_the_caboose
Moderator
Historian
Posts: 1483
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #72 on: Jun 19th, 2013, 6:05pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

hey dale!  some great movement on the trucks!
 
keep it coming, i'm always curious about what you are up to...and btw, will you be able to make it to the next unmeet?  if not, i know this guy who'll be heading to michigan when the unmeet is over and would enjoy visiting with you??!!!!
 
good to see you posting more.
 
moose


Logged

Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  truck.jpg - 75168 Bytes
« Reply #73 on: Aug 11th, 2013, 7:06pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Hi Moose,
 
I'm going to try to make it next Feb. But you are always welcome to stop in and say hi and look around. Katinka will always give you a meal as well. Goes for the rest of you too.
 
Now I'm searching about on line on what the consensus is regarding prototype wood body cars. Looks like a lot of people make their own planks and side a chunk of plywood. Sounds like a lot of work. I was thinking of routing grooves in cabinet grade plywood.
 
Here's a truck ready for "speed trials". But it has to go under something. I am building a frame and plan on making test runs this fall.
 
Maybe I need to change this thread name to CB&Q Caboose # 14006.  
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/truck.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
moose_the_caboose
Moderator
Historian
Posts: 1483
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #74 on: Aug 12th, 2013, 5:28pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Aug 11th, 2013, 7:06pm, Steam290 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hi Moose,
 
I'm going to try to make it next Feb. But you are always welcome to stop in and say hi and look around. Katinka will always give you a meal as well. Goes for the rest of you too.
 
Now I'm searching about on line on what the consensus is regarding prototype wood body cars. Looks like a lot of people make their own planks and side a chunk of plywood. Sounds like a lot of work. I was thinking of routing grooves in cabinet grade plywood.
 
Here's a truck ready for "speed trials". But it has to go under something. I am building a frame and plan on making test runs this fall.
 
Maybe I need to change this thread name to CB&Q Caboose # 14006.  
 
 

 
hi dale,
 
lookin' good!  i know there are a few of us looking for some of those castings!  since i've decided to go ahead with the sal cab, i'm going to back-date it with your castings and a couple of tweaks.  for the time period i want, the engine will be 'new', but the train will be older.
 
great to hear that you'll make it in feb...and you might have visitors depending on how fast you can make it home.    i'll be heading to michigan after the unmeet with our very own pockets.  
 
and btw...."No!" on changing the name, this thread is about the trucks.  start a new thread for the car.  of course, that's my opinion on the subject.
 


Logged

BobbyT
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 628
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #75 on: Oct 30th, 2013, 8:45pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Hay Dale, any progress? What was the results of the speed trials?

Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20131128n-002_CBQ_caboose_frame.jpg - 65701 Bytes
« Reply #76 on: Dec 8th, 2013, 10:11am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Another update - long overdue.
 
Here's my frame for whatever waycar (Burlington's term for a caboose) I am building. It keeps changing as I learn about which frames were under what series of waycars.
 
The "speed" trials worked out well. I setup the frame with my Q truck on one end and a commercially available truck on the other. I also cut new coil springs out of some coil spring stock I bought at Mcmaster. In the center of each coil spring I installed a rubber stopper that I found at a better hardware store, to act as a stop or soft "bottom". I went up to the Eagle Point railroad and weighed down my frame to the correct ride height. I pulled this around the track with my truck in the trailing position, then turned it and pulled it with my truck in the leading position. Then at the suggestion of someone up there, they said a better acid test was to push it around the railroad. Which I commenced to do. With the Q truck in the trailing position and leading.
 
The only problem I had was going through a spring switch. The commercially available truck derailed, pulling my frame and truck off the track. Investigating this further, I found I did not have enough weight on my frame to force the points over. I need to beef up my springs a little more.
 
I also learned of Leesprings.com. Great site with info on calculating what spring you need.
 
As far as the frame and bolster is concerned; I learned that a 1/4 bolster pin is too small. In the photo you can see one pin bent. It was suggested to me that 3/8 is minimum. So that is a needed modification. I turned the end of 1/4 stock down and threaded to 10-24. Then I threaded the top of the frame and screwed my pins in from the underside. And yeah, my welding skills need more work.
 
Bottom line -- I think I have a winner.  
 
Now I am designing a caboose. And I am looking at cost reductions. I am exploring printing out sand molds to cast a large number of pedestals and journal boxes in cast iron.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20131128n-002_CBQ_caboose_frame.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3826
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #77 on: Dec 8th, 2013, 9:13pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Dec 8th, 2013, 10:11am, Steam290 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The only problem I had was going through a spring switch. The commercially available truck derailed, pulling my frame and truck off the track. Investigating this further, I found I did not have enough weight on my frame to force the points over. I need to beef up my springs a little more.

Another possibility to consider would be to reduce the spring force on the spring switch.  The need is solely to have enough force to ensure that the frog closes.  Anything beyond that is excessive.  The guard rails on a spring switch need to be firmly set, and normally being a little long on the end toward the switch is a good idea.  If the guard rail holds the truck in position so that the wheel does not hit the frog point, it will pass through the turnout without a problem even if the spring does not close it completely.  For a trial, block the frog open and run the car back and forth across it.  It should pass OK, if not figure out why not.


Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  side_bearings-2.jpg - 48855 Bytes
« Reply #78 on: Feb 2nd, 2014, 10:05am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

As usual, I've been quiet. The shop hasn't. Just been working on projects.
 
The side bearings on my do not need to be metal. They hold a block or roller. I put the 3D drawing together during a lunch hour. Cost for the plastic or aluminide (plastic with aluminum filler) was $4.11 and $4.76 respectively, plus shipping. they are about 0.5" by 0.4 x 0.5". Picture of each below.  
 
I have been using Ponoko and Shapeways. Sometimes their prices align, other times there is a large divergence. I have found the most cost effective approach is have your longest dimension on the X axis, next Y, and shortest dimension Z. Cost is substantially different depending on part orientation. And then overall volume matters.The pedestals, in rough numbers, 6" x 4" x 1" in plastic are low $50.  
 
But I just ordered my own small desktop 3D printer from makergeek.com They say, 2 to 3 weeks before it arrives. Is this going to help? Or am I going to get immersed in another project?
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/side_bearings-2.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Steam290
Chaser
Posts: 60
Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  side_bearing_installed.jpg - 116453 Bytes
« Reply #79 on: Feb 2nd, 2014, 10:11am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Pic of the side bearing installed.  
 
And you can also see the brake heads/shoes I am going to use. I didn't have a drawing. They looked complicated to draw. I might draw them up in the future when I can get next to a waycar or a few hours / days??
 
These are not quite correct, but close. I got them from railroad warehouse. They are Andrews tender truck brake head/shoes. They need some minor modification.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/side_bearing_installed.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »