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CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
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   CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
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   Author  Topic: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!  (Read 2969 times)
moose_the_caboose
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #40 on: Sep 7th, 2012, 5:45pm »
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on Sep 6th, 2012, 11:13pm, ncbqguy wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Tom-
Forst pf all, the No.7 truck isn't my work...Dale Grice is doing it.  I only hope to be able to get parts from him when he's finished building the first pair so I can build a CB&Q Waycar myself.
George-
Thank you for the kind words.   I am anxious to get started on my railroad but have the little detail of getting a house built first.
A point of order. The CW-7 you picture is not a Drovers Car.   The CB&Q had cars designated as Drovers Cars but they were either regular waycars fitted out with more bunks or old coaches just in that service.  The Combination Waycar (CW) were built for Branchline Service from old combines to serve as passenger car, baggage car and waycar.   They also had some 30' Waycars that had side doors and seats added for the same service.   Note that the CW-7s had No.2 trucks which used the same pedestals and design as the No.7 that Dale is building but with a longer wheelbase.  I have drawings for those as well as the six wheel passenger car derivation that could be built from Dale's parts when it comes to that.  
 
Going down to Dunlap this Saturday to get a Live Steam fix!!
 
Charlie Vlk
Mt. Juliet, TN

 
pockets:  i told ya he wouldn't let me get away with it!  charlie is dead-nuts accurate and not bragging.
 
charlie:  this is dale's thread, but can you post pics of the cbq's no 2 and no 7 trucks to illustrate?  after that, we'll turn it back to dale.
 
moose


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ncbqguy
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #41 on: Sep 9th, 2012, 8:32pm »
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George-
Sorry, but I don't have any images that I can post at the moment that are
suitable to illustrate the differences.   The No.7 (Waycar) truck has a 5'-0"
wheelbase; the No.2 (Passenger) truck has (if I remember correctly) a 7'-0" wheelbase.   There were some subclasses which reflected different journal sizes and wheel diameters that were used over the years and on different cars.   The same basic design (pedestal, other metal parts) was used on six wheel passenger car trucks.   If anyone is interested I can dig out the drawings and scan photos; right now my files are packed in our rental house garage awaiting a move to our new house which is about to have construction started on.
Thanks,
Charlie Vlk


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Steam290
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20120916n-002-800.jpg - 58953 Bytes
« Reply #42 on: Sep 16th, 2012, 8:42pm »
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Hi all,
 
I don't have a problem with opening this subject up to other trucks or even Q waycars. Discuss at will. And I want to publicly thank Charlie for the drawings that got me started.
 
And when I get to a point where I have figured it out, I will make parts available. I am learning things as I go and there are modifications that need to be made for a "production" set. But so far the molds that have been made do not need to be redone. Where's that piece of wood I can knock on?
 
Progress while slow continues. I spent a Sunday making 3-48 nuts according to scaled dimensions from a 19th century machinist reference book. They look too thick to me. More research is needed. I also used these nut to make bolts. You can see them at the corners of the truck. And then compare to those "bought" 4-40 nuts that hold the pedestal to the wheelpiece as it is called out on the Q drawings.
 
The 3-48 bolts are a story unto themselves. I used a die to thread some 3/32 (0.093) round brass stock. 3-48 should be around 0.099 OD. So I cheated. I soldered a threaded nut to a piece of stock I threaded.  One "bolt" I pulled the soldered nut off the end while tightening. Seen in picture 2.  I found the die was shaving a thousandth or so off the OD of the rod. So I opened the die up and threaded some more stock. Opening the die up gave me a "larger"(minor diameter) thread. These newer threads feel better. But I need to investigate getting some 0.099 diameter round. I would also prefer to make these out of steel. And the machinging of miniature nuts is a real pain in the nuts. I must be going to the squirrels.  
 
And now I am thinking about a CNC nut machining setup. But I can't get derailed. I wonder what the minimum order for someone with a swiss screw machine is.
 
Another pic. Those are the masters that are now at the foundry getting cost estimates.
 
And I have to start researching and thinking about the leaf springs. Do I go with a solid casting or go with the real thing. Making the real thing is going to be a journey unto itself. Thoughts - suggestions? Men in white coats?
 
Dale


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20120916n-002-800.jpg
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Steam290
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20120916n-003-800.jpg - 35485 Bytes
« Reply #43 on: Sep 16th, 2012, 8:45pm »
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Next photo.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20120916n-003-800.jpg
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Steam290
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  20120910n-003_7_Truck_patterns-800.jpg - 57354 Bytes
« Reply #44 on: Sep 16th, 2012, 8:46pm »
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And the patterns.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20120910n-003_7_Truck_patterns-800.jpg
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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #45 on: Sep 17th, 2012, 7:16am »
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   Dale, my old friend, that truck is absolutely beautiful.
 
   Bruce


« Last Edit: Sep 17th, 2012, 7:18am by ErieAtlantic7597 » Logged
Dick_Morris
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #46 on: Sep 17th, 2012, 12:17pm »
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Nice work.
 
There was a firm on the east coast who specialized in very small screws. I think the name was J.I. Morris. The biggest they sold was either #2 or #3. They sold one foot pieces of brass in 0, 1, 2, and possibly 3 in plastic tubes of about a dozen. I don't know if they are still around as it's been several years since I had the occasion to look for them.
 
If you can use steel, another possibility is to look for nails with the proper diameter.  When making long bolts for arch bar trucks I found that all nails of a given size aren't the same diameter.  Unfortunately, it appears that most are being packaged by only one or two companies so they may be more standardized now.
 


« Last Edit: Sep 25th, 2012, 11:55pm by Dick_Morris » Logged
Steam290
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  BURLINGTON_2.jpg - 17130 Bytes
« Reply #47 on: Sep 23rd, 2012, 9:55am »
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Moose,
 
You asked about differences between the # 2 and 7 trucks. Here are some diagram sheets that show overall differences.
 
Dale


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/BURLINGTON_2.jpg
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Steam290
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #48 on: Sep 23rd, 2012, 9:57am »
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The # 2 is longer. That won't be a problem as the wheelpiece and equalizer can be made longer without much trouble.
 
Dale


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Steam290
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  BURLINGTON_2-2.jpg - 17130 Bytes
« Reply #49 on: Sep 23rd, 2012, 9:58am »
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Forgot the pic.  

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/BURLINGTON_2-2.jpg
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Steam290
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  BURLINGTON_7.jpg - 30156 Bytes
« Reply #50 on: Sep 23rd, 2012, 9:59am »
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Darn, wrong pic.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/BURLINGTON_7.jpg
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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #51 on: Sep 23rd, 2012, 7:51pm »
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   For all of those that just sit at home and make idle suggestions to folks that have already built something, and, are REALLY doing things in the "live steam hobby", I'd like to say this.
 
   I had this beautiful piece of workmanship of a truck in my hands at the Canton, St.Paul and Pacific track over the week end. I know Dale for many, many years. I've known of his abilities for a long time from the model RR hobby. But this truck really blew me away. It has to be seen in person to be appreciated. After looking at it from many angles, as a fifty plus years mechanic(live steam mechanic included), I don't believe Dale needs advise from too many people. He is doing a fine (super fine) job, in my opinion, on his own.  
 
   Dale, thanks for putting this 'work of art' in my hands on sat.  
 
   your old friend, bruce R.


« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2012, 10:16pm by ErieAtlantic7597 » Logged
ncbqguy
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #52 on: Sep 25th, 2012, 4:26pm »
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Thanks for posting the Truck Diagrams.   I have them and detailed railroad  drawings for most of the components but didn't think of using the diagram book pages to illustrate the differences between the No.7 and No.2 trucks.
The detail drawings get a little messy for web posting.
The great thing about these trucks is that they are good for wood-burners through SD45s....1872 (at least!!) -1980-ish.   They gave a superior ride and the wood waycars lasted until the end of caboose usage on the BN.
Charlie Vlk


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #53 on: Sep 25th, 2012, 8:29pm »
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on Sep 25th, 2012, 4:26pm, ncbqguy wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Thanks for posting the Truck Diagrams.   I have them and detailed railroad  drawings for most of the components but didn't think of using the diagram book pages to illustrate the differences between the No.7 and No.2 trucks.
The detail drawings get a little messy for web posting.
The great thing about these trucks is that they are good for wood-burners through SD45s....1872 (at least!!) -1980-ish.   They gave a superior ride and the wood waycars lasted until the end of caboose usage on the BN.
Charlie Vlk

 
charlie & dale:  would it be fair to say that it would be as simple as changing the equalizer bars and coil spring perches, that the #7 could become a #2? why am i asking?  'cause the y'all know i want to build a cbq combine, but i've also found that the sal rr used a similar truck on some of their earlier 60-63' passenger & express cars.  so the question becomes can cosmetic changes be made to morph the #2 trucks to sal rr (brainfa-- keeps me from remembering the name of the supplier)?
 
dale:  a production question...would it be economically feasible to create the equalizer bars by waterjetting them from appropriate flat stock and thereby saving some of the cost of foundry work?  the spring perches would be easier to cast and would add to the look and joy of operation.  you know me, i'm drooling over your trucks already!  if my question/suggestion is all wet, please say so...learning is what these pages are about.
 
charlie:  i'm going back through the disk you sent way back when...gonna see if the #2 truck is there.  many thanks for your knowledge and advice.
 
moose


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ncbqguy
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #54 on: Sep 25th, 2012, 11:40pm »
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Moose-
If you don't have it I do have a drawing on my computer that I can send to you.
Send me a email if you need it.
Charlie Vlk


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Steam290
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
  EQUALIZER_-_SCALED_1.6_-_PLUS_3_-_1.jpg - 5566 Bytes
« Reply #55 on: Oct 1st, 2012, 8:21pm »
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Thanks for the kind words Bruce.
 
Moose, I don't see why they can't be morphed.  
 
I did look at water jetting and thought about plasma cutting. But the area above the pedestals in thicker on both sides. So I was thinking about silver soldering pads on. But then I would also have to make or water jet the pads. The area under the spring seats had a truncated pyramid shape so the spring seats would center and not rattle around. Then I looked at the machining of the spring seats with an inverted truncated pyramid. That caused me to drink massive quantities of beer.   Or I could do the spring seats in castings. On the other had, doing it all as one casting might save time and trouble. So that was the route.
 
I might look at water jetting again in the future.  But I have had so many possible detours on this project from learning casting to CNC to wanting to really build a loco.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/EQUALIZER_-_SCALED_1.6_-_PLUS_3_-_1.jpg
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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #56 on: Oct 1st, 2012, 9:52pm »
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No thanks necessary my friend. Your workmanship speaks for itself.
 
   Bruce R


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tomc
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #57 on: Oct 2nd, 2012, 1:13pm »
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We cast our cups seperatly and water jettted the bars.  We pined our cups to the bar to hold.  Once the spring is in and they are together, I think it would stay in place by all the pressure.  Anyhow, nice workmanship going in there.
 
Tom C.


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ncbqguy
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
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« Reply #58 on: Oct 21st, 2012, 4:26pm »
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Saturday I had the pleasure to visit with Dale Grice and his wife at the CSME Run.    
Dale brought the mockup of his CB&Q #7 Wood Beam Truck and it sure is looking good!
Here is a photo of the first time it was on rails....
Charlie Vlk


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/No_7_truck.jpg
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Steam290
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Re: CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!
 
« Reply #59 on: Oct 21st, 2012, 8:26pm »
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Thanks for the photo Charlie. It sure does look funny with the journals mashed to the top of the pedestals. Made a bunch of miniature 4-40 nuts on the Unimat lathe this afternoon outside in the sunshine. I filled those holes on the pedestals.
 
Anyone know where Tom Bee gets his truck springs and what load they are rated for. Been looking at coil springs on Mcmaster.com. And while not expensive, I would rather not pay for something I might not use. I have a feeling I am going to have to buy different rated springs and experiment.
 
And those wheels are not finished. So don't worry about the profile.


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