Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Nov 19th, 2017, 7:24pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Model Railroading
   Live Steam and Ride on Scales
(Moderators: moose_the_caboose, Brian Tusin)
   Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12  ...  16 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops  (Read 6843 times)
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #80 on: Mar 29th, 2010, 1:29pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Bobby,
Thanks for the interest.
 
You're correct, the crossmember is a stamping. However, this is a very light duty application and I won't be relying entirely on riveted construction. This vehicle gets a four wheel truck that will probably weigh more than the weight it is carrying.
 
One form of fabrication, for this crossmember, that I'm considering, is to start with a piece of square tubing. This would provide nice, consistant radii. By slicing, dicing and rearranging the tubing, puzzle fashion, I can get to the proper shape and still maintain the channel cross section.
 
Another method, which I alluded to above, would be to start with sheet stock, build a hammer form and pound the steel into submission. No matter the method used, all welds will get metal finished and the piece will appear as a stamping.
 
Thanks,
Greg B.


Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
ErieAtlantic7597
Historian
Posts: 5838
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #81 on: Apr 8th, 2010, 5:51pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify


 
   Guys,
 
   I owe you an appology. Unlike some others on the site now, I do take notice of what others are doing in our hobby. But I did miss these last few posts. Very interesting!!
 
   Brought back many memories. I used to own a stock '31' model A 1/4 ton pickup. I rebuilt the engine myself, so I do remember how that front cross member looked. Just a little heavier than the "T". I would always take engines out of cars to rebuild them, so the frame and cross members were exposed. I did that with either modern(for then) or antique cars.
 
   Also, the Fords, "T"s and "A"s, had a single elipticle spring "U" bolted crosswise to the lower portion of that cross member. And the ends of the springs hung on double trunions behind the brake plates or spindles if there were no brake plates.
 
    Sorry.Enough of my memory lane stuff about cars. Although quite a few from that era ended up with flanged wheels. ie: Galloping Geese plus many other not so noticed rail vehicles.  
 


Logged
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #82 on: Apr 8th, 2010, 7:09pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Bruce, the hobby is about memories. That's why so many of the younger participants model diesels... They can't remember the "good stuff"
 
Like you, I've had my hands on a good many of these parts, but never had a reason to measure them! George is doing some research that is going to see this project move foreward at a little better pace.
 
I've been remiss in posting updates, but, as Bruce may well remember, there's nothing photogenic about massaging wrinkles out of sheet metal. By early next week I hope to give you something to glance at.
 
Thanks,
Greg B.


Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
Moderator
Historian
Posts: 1483
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #83 on: Apr 9th, 2010, 9:02pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

hi all,
 
as pockets said, i've been busy doing what i like to do best...sometimes.  research seems to be something that interests me, so, off on many dark trails to find what we need!  although this could very well fall under education, you have to have data in order to place into focus the project that you want to do.  moose meadows #5 project is a lot more dependant on accurate data due to the scope of what we are doing.  want to do a credible job on a freelance project?  you still need to do your research.  form follows function...no ifs, no ands, or buts.
 
having said that, what kind of research have i been doing?  gaining access to everything from ford parts catalogs to body drawings...
 

 
all public domain materials are fair game...knowledge helps drive the engine of process.
 

 
and yes, there are some materials that i have given my word that won't be revealed.  as i said, knowledge is the engine driving process.  okay, what else having i been doing?
 
i also share the burden of materials procurement.  pockets needed a few 2 5/8" x 3" steel 'muffins', so i created some.  he'll explain what he's going to do with them in good time.
 

 

 
and here are 3 of the 4 'muffins' just about ready to ship!
 

 
truth be told, i'm having as much fun doin' the diggin' as i do in the shop!
 
moose


Logged

pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #84 on: Apr 14th, 2010, 1:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

We have muffins! These pices will be machined into the rear hubs for #5. The first pic shows one in the lathe, where I have just rough squared one end and made it round. This process will be repeated on each piece to facilitate consistent chucking. Gonna be some interesting machining, here, 'cause some of this steel machines like cheddar cheese and the carbide just kinda rubs off the hard spots. Recycled Yugo
 
 

 
 
The second pic shows three blanks and the above piece posed on my 1949 Delta drill press. The reason you're not looking at four squared up pieces is that the drive belt on my old lathe gave up the ghost on the first pass on piece #2. Some days you should just stay in bed!  
 


« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2010, 1:23pm by pockets » Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #85 on: Apr 14th, 2010, 1:41pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Bouncing back to the radiator shell.... The dark (low) spots are getting more numerous and closer together. This is part of the planishing (smoothing) process and, if carried far enough, would bring the metal to a level suitable for polishing. Thank goodness this thing isn't going to be polished! I have gotten it past the "bondo" skim coat stage that todays bodymen enjoy. About 90% of the shell is about to the stage where a couple of priming and blocking cycles should suffice.
 
 

 
Perhaps of interest to some are a couple of other items in the photo. To the left of the shell are a couple of dollys that were made for this project. There is the stepped piece, on top of the note pad, and above that is a bent piece of rod. These have been polished so that they don't impress the copper. Their size and shape allow me to work into confined places. Also, within the shell, is the little hammer I made for abusing the copper. The head is only 1-3/4" long and shaped to suit the job. It has been reshaped a few times (too lazy to make more hammers!).


Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #86 on: Apr 14th, 2010, 1:49pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Doesn't look like much (and it's not ), but this pic shows the blanks for the brackets that fasten the radiator shell to the critter's frame. Everything is a g'zinta! the sides of the shell had to be relieved to allow thesebrackets to pass through and still let the bottom section of the shell fit tightly against the top section.
 
 

 
Greg B.


Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #87 on: Apr 14th, 2010, 1:55pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Here is the long suffering hole for the radiator neck. It's as close to size as I'm going to take it before making the radiator neck. (Easily scrutinized g'zinta) It wants to be right.
 
 

 
Greg B.


Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #88 on: Apr 14th, 2010, 2:05pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Here's the start of a tedious, pita, little job. This piece recieves a compound curved flange that lays inside the rolled face of the shell and will serve as the soldering face.
 
 
 
Although it doesn't show well, in the pic, if you close one eye and squint with the other, you can see that I've worked the crown into the face of this piece.
 
Greg B.


« Last Edit: Apr 15th, 2010, 7:33am by pockets » Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
Moderator
Historian
Posts: 1483
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #89 on: Apr 15th, 2010, 3:52am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

hi all,
 
pockets:  even though i'm involved in the research and other aspects of the project, i'm still enthralled to see the work going on with moose meadows #5!  i'm also amazed at the comments i've gotten from folks when they learn of the project and tune in here to see what you're doing.  to them it may seem like 'magic' to see metal being pushed around, but it's just 'process'.  i can't thank you enough for tackling this project.  with a project like this one, doing the hard work pays off by showing what can be done with individual pieces rather than just creating something that is 'close' or 'just looks like it a little bit'.  
 
to all:  like others have done on this live steam board, putting forth the effort makes for a better railroad or model.  if there's something that interests you in what pockets is doing...ask!  that's what this threads' about.
 
moose


Logged

BobbyT
Former Member
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
  railcar2b.jpg - 39742 Bytes
« Reply #90 on: Apr 25th, 2010, 9:51pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Hey Moose, you might already have these in your collection, but I stumbled across them and thought you might like them.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/railcar2b.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
BobbyT
Former Member
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
  SmRailcarAtAtchee.jpg - 34828 Bytes
« Reply #91 on: Apr 25th, 2010, 9:53pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

I really like this one..... this would be fun to show up with to a motor car meet!

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/SmRailcarAtAtchee.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #92 on: Apr 25th, 2010, 10:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Bobby,
Those pics were some of our early inspiration. The bottom one has been discussed quite a bit. Stick around a while. I've had to shelve this critter to get my toys tucked in to their new homes, but that's got a forseeable end. You know the drill: Power to the machines, leveling and traming, etc. I will go so far as to say that ol' Moosey's critter ain't gonna be as dainty as a roadster....
 
Greg B.
PS, Bobby, it's a 1964 model 645


Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
BobbyT
Former Member
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #93 on: Apr 25th, 2010, 10:49pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

photo's photo's photo's photo's  

Logged
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #94 on: Apr 26th, 2010, 9:21am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Bobby,
Patience, sir.   I hope to be back on this project in the next week, or so.
 
I was out in the shop, this morning, pondering a stamping die for the radiator fins. That's about a gajillion holes in about 150 strips of .015" brass. But then, the radiator doesn't HAVE to be functional.... could I just use tubing spacers and solder it all into a lump that is visually correct? Lets see, that's a gajillion spacers, times.....
 
Gettin' too old for this....
 
Greg B.


Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
BobbyT
Former Member
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #95 on: Apr 26th, 2010, 10:26pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Greg, take a look at some heater cores for your radiator insert.  
 


« Last Edit: Apr 27th, 2010, 12:20am by BMNW21201 » Logged
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #96 on: Apr 26th, 2010, 11:17pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Bobby,
I've looked at heater cores, oil coolers etc. The fin patern is just too coarse to look right on a model.
 
I'll email you some pics, but, like many, I'm not going to publish a catalog, for nefarious types, on a global forum. I am blessed, after a lifetime of collecting tools and a stroke of fantastic good fortune, to have my dream shop. As you are becoming aware, the major machine tools are the attention getters, but the tooling to use them is the expensive part. You could walk into a large scale builders shop and put a thousand dollars in your pocket. It might not even be missed for six months. I realize that this sounds like a lecture aimed at you, Bobby. Please, don't take it that way. Talk to George, or Pete, or Bruce and you'll probably get a similar response. Pete, for example, has a shop that anyone would enjoy having. With all of the BC pics on the board, the actual shop area is conspicuous by it's absence. I don't believe this is accidental.....
 
To all of you gentlemen stepping into this lifestyle, first, I refer you to the Edumakashun thread, then I will tell you that this hobby can be enjoyed at a reasonable monetary level. Scratchbuilding carrys with it it's own rewards. In addition to the usual blarney about satisfaction and pleasure from a job done well, it's the cheapest damned way to play this game. Few are the people who can make a living building custom models, because the people who can afford to pay what they are worth, even at a modest hourly rate, are very few and a long ways in between. That's why we build for ourselves and a few close friends, at best hoping to recoup the cost of materials. I couldn't afford to commission a caboose from ol" Moosey, if he was selling them for what a "proffesional" builder gets. Few of us could. My best guess is that there will be about 3500 hrs in MM #5. Do the math. Now, all of a sudden, the cost of some "previously owned" machines have a different perspective.
 
I really do have to stop drinking coffee after 9:00 PM!
 
Greg B.


Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
Henry
Historian
Posts: 6122
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
  KoolancePC1_Radiator.jpg - 111242 Bytes
« Reply #97 on: Apr 27th, 2010, 12:05pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Greg,
 
Have you looked at radiators designed for liquid cooling computers? If you aren't going to go the liquid cooled route, you might be able to kitbash a couple of them into a non-functional correct shape and size. They come in both aluminum and copper. You might be able to find copper ones you could cut and solder into a functional unit, but that's tricky work, especially with small core tubes.
 
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=%22liquid+cooling+radiators%22
 
Here's a shot of the aluminum radiator in my liquid cooled PC (I'm both a vehicle and computer hot rodder) and yes it is dirty, but it is so overkill that it still cools well with two 120mm fans. It's $20 from here: http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=71
 
Henry


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/KoolancePC1_Radiator.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #98 on: Apr 27th, 2010, 3:24pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Henry,
Thanks for the tip.   If the copper cores are as tight as your aluminum one is, they would be dangerously close to what's needed.
 
There is plenty of height to cut down and make new top and bottom tanks. It would take about 1-1/3 cores to get the necessary width, but a functional radiator (bourbon cooler) is a possibility.
 
Thanks again,
Greg B.


Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
Moderator
Historian
Posts: 1483
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #99 on: May 7th, 2010, 8:51pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

hi all,
 
of necessity, this thread lags from time to time...'cause it takes time for me to research and pockets to create parts.  in searching through the numerous pathways of the internet, i'm sometimes surprized by the humor exhibited by those in other hobbies.  not the we (live steamers) don't have our own funny moments, maybe we're just a little more reluctant to put them out for others to 'enjoy'.  so, recently i ran across the following pictures...related to full-size 't's! (model t forums)
 
i had to laugh when i saw this photo captioned as a 'chicken coupe'!
 

 
the photo above was followed by a posting of the photo below!  
 

 
not to be out done, some of the fellows wanted to post their 't' & 'a' photos...thank you to michael p-b for posting them in the 't' forums...what a sense of humor.
 

 

 
okay, enough for now...
 
moose


Logged

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12  ...  16 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »