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Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
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   Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
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   Author  Topic: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops  (Read 6851 times)
pockets
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Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #60 on: Mar 20th, 2010, 6:33pm »
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Apologies for the fuzziness. I'm not much of a photographer.
 
After reannealing, it's back to the tool box for more sockets and to the hardware shelf for a longer screw. The larger socket goes on the bottom, to provide support. The upper socket, which is about 1/4" smaller on the OD than the bottom one, is placed on top and the squeezing process is repeated.
 


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
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Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #61 on: Mar 20th, 2010, 6:37pm »
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This is what we're shooting for; a depressed area in the center, without unduely distorting the area around it.
 


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
BobbyT
Former Member
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #62 on: Mar 20th, 2010, 9:14pm »
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sweet!

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pockets
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Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #63 on: Mar 21st, 2010, 8:05pm »
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The last couple of pics show the metal being pushed down. This one, with reversed and larger sockets shows how I create the raised ring that will surround the radiator neck.  
 
 


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
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Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #64 on: Mar 21st, 2010, 8:08pm »
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This photo shows what the sockets and wrenches have achieved.
 
 


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
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Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #65 on: Mar 21st, 2010, 8:16pm »
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A little work with the Dremel and we're ready to start slimming and sharpening that doughnut into the final little ridge that needs to be there.
 
 

 
 
Thanks for following my efforts.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
ErieAtlantic7597
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Posts: 5838
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #66 on: Mar 21st, 2010, 10:26pm »
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   greg,    
 
   i like the way you did that. neat!


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pockets
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Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #67 on: Mar 22nd, 2010, 7:43am »
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Bobby and Bruce,
Thanks so much for your comments.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #68 on: Mar 22nd, 2010, 7:20pm »
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hi all,
 
the moose meadows #5 project is many things to me...a project in which i can learn more than just the knowledge and skills that i bring to it; a project built by a dear friend just for me (normally, i'm building for my other friends); a project that allows both greg and myself to delve into our industrial history; and most importantly to me, one of many ways to build life-long friendships not only with greg (pockets), but with the jax steam team, the bcrr crew, the long crew and many of my railfan folks (you).  pockets and i will do other projects in the future...more than a few in our scale of choice (just read "large"!).
 
working with people you trust and respect, the project becomes less about 'the thing' and more about the journey getting there.  that is what makes the moose meadows #5 project important to me is the time i spend working with greg and the effort he's put forth making it an extra special work of industrial art.  believe me, it is a work of art!   whether it's moose meadows #5 or the erie caboose or the ic caboose or bobber caboose or wabash caboose or any other car...you grow very close to the friends who are part of the process.  i've had my share of disappointments in the hobby, but once you connect with true live steamers, you'll always find folks who understand and are more than willing to help.
 
now on to show you some of what the future (this summer) holds...the reason pockets has been saying my name in....  oh, well.  in the last month, i've managed to score a scale model of a model t engine...when it arrives, all i have to do is scale it up, make a set of patterns and cast it!  i know, i've got the easy part...pockets has to work on a radiator...
 

 
btw...we've gotten comments from some of the model t guys...they really like greg's work!  beating metal into the shape you want, transends scale!  for the model t guys, there's no bondo to cover up their 'sins'.
 
 
moose


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pockets
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Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #69 on: Mar 22nd, 2010, 10:15pm »
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Man, it's a good thing I wear 11" boots!! Moose droppings   can get a little deep in this neighborhood! I've been called a great many things (most of them not repeatable in polite company), but artist?
 
Moosey, check your chronology. With the flat firewall and this shell, I'm not sure if your engine gets a starter or not.
 
Greg B.
 


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #70 on: Mar 24th, 2010, 8:25pm »
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hi all,
 
the pic of the engine shows the starter as either an after-market (read that expensive) add-on or one of the options ford offered on the last couple of model years of the model t.  and no, moose meadows won't get a starter...i'll have to 'hand' crank it!
 
pockets...sure can't get one past you!!!!
 
moose


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pockets
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Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #71 on: Mar 24th, 2010, 9:08pm »
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Moosemeister,
It's not a matter of getting anything past anyone. It's a matter of perspective. Remember our phone conversation? You get to look at the "BIG PICTURE". Sorta like "Ohboyohboyohboy, I'm gonna have one of THESE!" I have to study all those pesky little details 'cause I'm buildin' the sucker.... The shoe is on the other foot, my friend.  
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #72 on: Mar 25th, 2010, 7:28pm »
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A couple of items, before I head for the shop for more metal abuse:
 
1. I would like to express my gratitude to all of the people who keep checking this thread. It's your curiosity that keeps Moosey and I posting. That said, I am aware of my limitations as an instructor. If the subject matter holds any interrest, there must be some questions, suggestions or critiques. This is supposed to be interactive, isn't it?
 
2. It has been mentioned to me that my explanation / description of hammer forms was a little thin. When next the camera and I are in the shop, I'll put something together that may clarify some issues.
 
Thanks again,
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #73 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 9:52pm »
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Saw to shape, file to fit and pound in place! That's a somewhat facetious description of hand forming metal. In a more serious vein, the construction of the hammer form involved a technique not normally used by Live Steamers, unless they are building their own launch hull. That is the bending of wood via soaking or steaming.
 
I determined that, allowing for the thickness of the copper, I had to end up with a 1/4" thick form. Given the radii needed at this scale, two layers, in lamination, of white oak should do. I went to the table saw and ripped a few strips from a Clam Lake tie. Liberating SWMBO's large roasting pan (the turkey one) we filled it with water and set it on top of the wood stove. Bear in mind that up until this point there had been a plot for a couple of years, but no plan. Moosey was pulling dimensions from my full size shell while we were working on the hammer form. Well, when steam started coming off the water, I put the oak on to cook. It has to get pliable but can't cook too long or the fibers start to separate and it will crack when you try to bend it.
 
When the oak is pulled from the water you have only moments to get it wrapped into position and clamped. Some of the early photos show the clamps in place. What they can't show is Moose and I frantically trying to hold the form in place and get the clamps located and secured.
 
The smoothing and blending of the intersecting curves and radii have to be given lots of attention. ANY flaw in the form will be transfered to the copper. That said, hindsight is 20-20 and if I had to make more than one of these shells, the hammer form would be of metal and in several pieces.
 
The trailing edge of the early auto radiator shels had a recessed flange that the hood rested on. This photo shows the recess, that accepted this flange, better than previous pics. That recess is my nemesis on this project and the reason for my statement in the paragraph above. When the shell is on the form, it is locked in place. The shell has to be mildly distorted to release it from the form, resulting in re-straightening and re-smoothing. PITA!!!
 
 

 
Greg B.


« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2010, 12:01am by pockets » Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #74 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 10:00pm »
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The hammer form is constantly being modified to facilitate further stages of fabrication. As an example, the fitting and fussing stage (reply #46) of the bottom member of the shell required the notches (arrows) shown in the pic.
 
 

 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #75 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 10:28pm »
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Almost everything on our projects is a g'zinta..... This g'zinta that and that g'zinta somethin' else..... So I calls my research staff (Moose) and tell him that frame rails are easy, but I'm comin' up dry on the front crossmember. A few days later, the photo below arrives. The data is, mostly, there, but you have to want it pretty bad.
 
Let's make it usefull for scale construction....
 
 


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #76 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 10:36pm »
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Make a copy and drag out the calculator. Multiply all the numbers by .333 (4" scale) and note the new dimension next to the old one.
 
 

 
 
Run another copy through "paint" and make all the numbers go away
 
 


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #77 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 10:43pm »
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Print out the "paint" version and scribble in the appropriate scale dimensions.
 
 

 
The next step is to photograph it and send it to Moose, where he can do that voodoo that he do, so that I can post it and, hopefully explain the proces of going from prototype to scale.
 
Thanks
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
Historian
Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #78 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 10:54pm »
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In case you're wondering, We are not abandoning the radiator shell. We have research ongoing and to prevent stagnation by analyzation, I may have several pieces underway simultaneously.
 
The front crossmember promises to be an interesting piece. Henry's was a fairly convoluted, deep draw stamping. Steel is the obvious choice of material. Somewhere in the 14 gauge range, 1010 P&O if it can be found. It should be fun to build it as close to stock as possible and then do the minimal mods necessary for it to serve as the body bolster for the front truck. Just like any back woods railroad would do.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
BobbyT
Former Member
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #79 on: Mar 29th, 2010, 1:03pm »
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Greg, if I understand correctly, the original cross member was a stamped piece? Wouldn't it be prudent for your purposes to fabricate this piece solid if you are planning on using it for the truck/body bolster?

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